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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 12:31 AM
Original message
KARL ROVE should APOLOGIZE for his nasty remarks!
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 12:44 AM by Julius Civitatus
On today's news, Rove said the following about Democrats:


Rove: Dems Didn't Get 9/11 Consequences


http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-06222005-506146.html

By: SAM DOLNICK (Wed, Jun/22/2005)
NEW YORK

"Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers," Rove said. "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war." (snip)

Rove said the Democratic Party made the mistake of calling for "moderation and restraint" after the terrorist attacks.

"Conservatives saw what happened to us on 9/11 and said we will defeat our enemies. Liberals saw what happened to us and said we must understand our enemies." (snip)

"No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals," Rove said.



"No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals"
Really?
Well, just in case Karl Rove wasn't aware, many Democrats were killed on 9/11. Many of those who lost relatives on 9/11 are Democrats. His remarks are hurtful, insensitive and divisive. He basically insinuated that HALF this nation are traitors and appeasers of terrorists.

KARL ROVE SHOULD APOLOGIZE FOR HIS OFFENSIVE REMARKS.

DEMOCRATS SHOULD DEMAND THIS ASAP!!!


(I would also like to see Lieberman, Obama and Biden asking for Rove's apology, just like they asked for Dean and Durbin to apologize for their less offensive remarks.)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Unlike Dean and Durbin... right?
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 12:38 AM by Julius Civitatus
What's sauce for the goose...

Democrats better start fighting back, and doing it the same way the Repugs do.
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. One doesn't get the sense that Karl cares about average Americians
This is starting to translate over to the republican constituancy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Gee, it's so amazing to me how they keep spewing this crap about the
war on terror currently being fought primarily in Iraq, and bring up 9/11 as if Iraq had a friggin thing to do with it. Plus, we've all seen how well things work out when you go to war without understanding your enemy. These assholes really make me want to puke!:puke:
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. Google "Frank Luntz" and this phrase.
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 10:15 AM by CBHagman
"On the streets." It's a cynical use of talking points to steer people away from the real issues and give them a false sense that Iraq will secure our national security. Really disgusting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54906-2004Jun19.html
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Thanks - I printed this article and put it out at work. n/t
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. And the GOP does use the talking points.
So do the Pentagon and the White House. I can't count the number of times I've heard a senator, representative, or spokesman use the Luntz phrases.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yeah, but war with who Karl
Our enemy was bin Laden. Why has he bin Forgotten?

And unless you forgot, it was a buncha liberals at or around ground zero, you asshat!

I do SO get tired of them trying to own 9/11. For fuck's sake, it happened to us too.

:argh:
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. That is what his comments remind me of - Democrats wanted to
get OBL and Bush hijacked 9/11 to use against Iraq.

George W Bush on OBL: "I truly am not that concerned about him".
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. What is he talking about? The man makes no sense.
None at all.

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warbly Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. i'm all for defeating those who hit us on 9-11
so why the hell haven't we gotten Osama?
Goss says he knows where he is. I think we should go in there and get him, don't you Karl?
asshole.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, from what I recall, liberals were being told OBL did it and
the administration was going to go get him. Instead, they spent a little time with the Taliban in Afghanistan and then went to Iraq. Meanwhile, where's Waldo, Karl?
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. The fat bastard doughboy with the lily soft hands speaks again!
Pity the poor fool who looks up to this hemrhoid!
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. On edit:
"Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and ran and hid. Then they planned a way to make a shitload of money off of it." Just wanted to set the record straight, thanks. KKKarl.


P.S.- Jeff, why did you block my number? You know that I miss you. KKKarl.:loveya:
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Kick! --- n/t
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
13. So - who have y'all written/called about this?
Post your messages.

Me - all the Dem Senators - at work - will hit House afterwards. Any good LTTE out there? Anyone calling people?
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kitkat65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's just a smokescreen reaction because of the DSM
Make anyone who dares question the motives of the war look weak and spineless and not interested in national security. Blah blah blah...
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
15. Bullshit, karl, or should I say more
bushit?

Your crew was asleep at the fucking wheel on 9/11 so you started the wheels turning to get sadam(cause you're so gawd damn greedy). Who doesn't understand what happened? What's that karl?..I can't hear ya, ya stupid jerkoff.

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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. BUMP for an immediate APOLOGY from Rove......n/t
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WhollyHeretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
17. KKKarl is getting desperate because of dropping polls
And what the hell is the statement "Liberals saw what happened to us and said we must understand our enemies"? That's a bad thing? Whatever you plan on doing you need to understand your enemy. Lashing out blindly is the dumbest thing you can do. I guess that's why we're in Iraq and Osama is still loose.
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
18. you know they are worried....
when they have KKKarl all over the media, making Bush's argument for him.

he has been on hardball two days in a row, and tonight Scarborough. I don't get Fox, but I imagine he has been on there.

What's next?

the View? Dr. Phil?
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
19. Unfortunately, the administration is incompetent at security...
...particularly national security in general. And as far as wars overseas, it isn't time to collect kudos. Look at how they screwed up Iraq. "Mission accomplished"?

Really, the only "enemies" the GOP wants to defeat are Democrats. They don't have solid plans to protect the people of this nation. God help us to get them out before things get even worse.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
20. Actually we do want to know more about 9/11 from Rove
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 10:06 AM by realFedUp
We'd like to know why three WTC buildings were brought
down by controlled demolition.

We'd like to know why there was only a 16' hole in a wing in the Pentagon that was undergoing reconstruction, too small for a Boeing plane to go into and why there were no remains of a real plane found on the site.

We'd like to know about the Marvin Bush security company that oversaw the WTC.

We'd like to know why no Air Force planes were scrambled immediately that morning.

We'd like to know why some in this country knew pre-9/11 about the time and place the attacks would take place.

We'd like to know why some of the alleged names on the hijacker's list still live in Saudi Arabia.

We want some answers Mr. Rove and I'm sure you have them.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
21. Please, nominate this thread for the main page! n/t
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 10:09 AM by Julius Civitatus
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
23. You live in a dreamworld....
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 10:08 AM by Totally Committed
Please do not hold your breath. Republicans never apologize. It's an unspoken rule.

To quote a recent article about something else, entirely, I thought this summed it up beautifully: "Republicans aren't 'idealistic', they are fabricationists and revisionists. Out of thin air they fabricated threats from Saddam, persecution of Christians, and the absurd fantasy that George W. Bush is an 'honest and upright man of integrity'. Republicans have even managed to revise the Constitution without rewriting a single word of the precious document. They have convinced a plurality of Americans that there isn't -- totally ignoring the reality of the First Amendment -- a seperation between Church and State. Further, Republicans have so altered the reality of the Founding Fathers, that many believe they were Evangelical Christians, which they weren't. Save for Madison, among the big five, the rest including George Washington, were Deists..."

http://www.progressivedailybeacon.com/commentary.php?id=627

Republicans are the great obfiscationists... they are magicians. We need to find a way to counter them on that playing field before we ever see an apology from them about anything.

TC
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
24. Bloggers organizing a mailing campaign
Atrios just linked to First Draft. They are suggesting a mailing campaign regarding these awful comments from Rove.
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rniel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. Absolutely not true
Actually after 9/11 my first thought was I wanted revenge. I wanted those responsible brought to justice. But I didn't want my anger used as a vehicle to invade a country that had nothing to do with what happened.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
26. i think liberals wanted to spend our resources fighting
the real terrorists and not invading countries that had nothing to do with the attack.

we also wanted to avoid wasting half a trillion dollars that doesn't make America safer in anyway and in fact is having the opposite effect.

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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
27. Sen. Reid
has made a statement demanding an apology from Karl Rove. I can't say how infuriated I am by that statement. My neighbor was killed on 9/11. A woman I know, a Democrat, lost her pregnant daughter that day.

How f%^&ing DARE he make a statement like that???


Every single Democrat better be demanding an apology from him!

And exactly what has this administration done to catch those responsible?? Where are the convictions, the trials, even the suspects?? Most of all, they've had five years to catch Osama Bin Laden, who, they told us, was responsible for 9/11, but he's still out there, presumably plotting and planning more death on destruction on the US. Unless, that too was a lie??

Karl better know that here in NY where it happened, 50% of the population believes he and his cohorts either LIHOP or MIHOP. He should have let that temporarily sleeping dog lie.

Half this country are Democrats, maybe more. Nearly 50 million of them voted against this administration. Maybe more! And he better look at his poll numbers, even my Repub friends and family now have doubts about the 'official' 9/11 story.

I hope Democrats do not let this pass ~ if anyone doubted where the rabid, rightwing gets its talking points, Karl has made it clear with those egregious statements. This kind of diatribe is what I see all the time from freepers and other rightwingers, repeating the lies and propaganda from the WH.

He better apologize or resign ~ I will now write to my two Senators, Hillary Clinton and Schumer and insist that the speak out for their constituency, who, after all suffered the most on that day.



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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
28. Why?
I just don't get all this apologizing stuff - from Dean to Durbin and now Rove.

They are big boys and they knew what they were saying and how it would be interpreted and they all meant exactly what they said.

I think they should just live with the consequences and let's forget all this pansy-assed pandering back and forth and just get on with the program - whatever that may be.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Oh, I would agree
with you. I would prefer that Karl Rove be prosecuted, and as Joe Wilson said 'frogg-marched' out of the WH. I would prefer it if someone had been held accountable for the outing of an undercover agent in retaliation for Joe Wilson telling the truth.

I would also like it better if not challenging the lies of this administration had worked and we were not now engaged in an disastrous war, eg. But it didn't work.


I would like it if 'appologizing' hadn't been put on the 'program' by the radicals that are running this country.

Karl Rove just told another egregious lie, and I disagree with you that, once again, he should be allowed to get away with it, unless you like losing? Because in case no one has noticed, not challenging their lies, hasn't won Democrats a single important battle in the years since they began using 9/11 as a weapon against half the population of the US.

On my program is calling them on every, single lie they tell from now on. I wish it had been 'on the program' from the beginning and maybe tens of thousands of dead people would be alive today, had we had the courage to do that.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
30. I'm really furious about this remark. I've been stewing about it all a.m.
Why doesn't the media come down on him the way they do Durbin and Dean? I don't know a Democrat who was not ready for battle after 9/11. I, personally, would have taken up arms against the enemy and I'm an "older" American. That pudgy, miserable twit should apologize to each and every one of us. Grrrrrrrrrr . . . I'm so pissed.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
32. Liberals saw what happened to us and said we must understand our enemies."
Yup. Wanna make something of that Karl? I do. Here's a blog thing I did spinning off that line:

Rove has me figured alright.

So I'm looking at my computer screen, which is opened up to Yahoo News, and my eyes are bouncing between these two stories. One is from the Associated Press with the headline; "Rove: Dems Didn't Get 9/11 Consequences." http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050622/wl_nm/security_iraq_cia_dc_4

And the other is from Reuters with the headline; "CIA says Iraq is now a terrorist training ground." http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/security_iraq_cia_dc;_ylt=AiTEjFnDkDyFOl2vSdp1Wzis0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxd HBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

WHOOP there it is.

I mean computers are smart in their own mindless way, but I don't expect them to write political commentary. Yet through the magic of juxtaposing, mine just did. This is too easy. Again. Rove: Dems Didn't Get 9/11 Consequences. CIA: Iraq is now a terrorist training ground.

Well the Bush White House never was interested in C.I.A. reports anyway, except when they got to edit them like they did with the science on global warning. But it isn't just the headlines, it's the text too. My computer keeps spitting out the commentary like a player piano reeling off notes. For example, it served up this (quoting Rove); "Conservatives saw what happened to us on 9/11 and said we will defeat our enemies. Liberals saw what happened to us and said we must understand our enemies."

Yup, there is nothing quite like focusing on defeating an enemy that you don't understand. And once you eliminate the tricky part about needing to understand your enemy, there's no pesky learning curve to slow you down. Just set your goal at, say, deposing Saddam, send in your Army to depose him, and declare Mission Accomplished. No need to plan for a post invasion, just bring vases for the flowers thrown at our feet.

See, Democrats just don't get how these action plans work. Democrats insist on success plans which take the focus completely away from action and instead puts it on, um, success. So, yeah, I get the difference between Republicans and Democrats that Rove is trying to make here. So it doesn't shock me that, quoting from Reuters, "the CIA now believes the Iraq insurgency poses an international threat and may produce better-trained Islamic terrorists than the 1980s Afghanistan war that gave rise to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda". In that case I'm sure this Administration will just whip up another action plan.

But this commentary wasn't through self expressing yet, not at all. Reading on one discovers that Rove wasn't content just describing past differences between Republicans and Democrats, he goes on to drag Senator Dick Durbin into his story. Durbin of course is the Democrat who compared some interrogation methods used at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp with things he might associate with the Nazis and other repressive regimes.

Quoting from Associated Press a last time: "He (that's Rove referring to Durbin here) said the statements have been broadcast throughout the Middle East, putting American troops in greater danger. Durbin has since apologized for the remarks. "

'No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals,' Rove said."

Here's the thing though. Durbin was reacting to reports about what went down at Gitmo that had ALREADY been broadcast all over the world. So what are the odds, you figure, that those wild eyed jihadists who the C.I.A. describes in the Reuters article, were like totally cool with this torture news UNTIL Durbin opened up his big mouth about it? What are the odds that Durbin was going to push them over any edge that they weren't already leaping off of? I suppose you might say that Durbin's comments kept the story in the news for an extra day. Of course you can also say that the Republican reaction to Durbin's comments kept the story in the news for an extra week.

This is what I think. I think the kind of Muslims who were already angry enough with Americans to blow themselves up with suicide bombs trying to kill us didn't need Durbin's commentary to rile them up. I think the news reports alone about the Guantanamo Bay prison camp were enough. Actually, I think the photos shown all around the globe of American soldiers torturing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib were more than enough to cause that reaction, but then again I am one of those Democrats who thinks it is important to actually understand our enemies.

In fact I think the Gitmo news reminded all the insurgents and terrorists and potential terrorists of those very same Abu Ghraib photos. Hell, I think the Gitmo news reminded Senator Durbin of those Abu Ghraib photos. I know it reminded ME of them. My understanding of Arab pride and the Islamic world leads me to believe that many people in that part of the world react very poorly to being tortured and humiliated by Western occupiers. It makes them want to kill us in general and our soldiers specifically, putting American troops in greater danger.

If I were a U.S. Senator, that would bother me, a lot. I'm not a U.S. Senator and it still bothers me a lot. As does the C.I.A. report that says Iraq is now a terrorist training ground. And if they are right, and I think they are, we have this to look forward to: "Once the insurgency ends, Islamic militants are likely to disperse as highly organized battle-hardened combatants capable of operating throughout the Arab-speaking world and in other regions including Europe". The Reuters article goes on at some length with more gloomy details, including many concerning direct threats to the United States.

So much is explained between these two stories that my computer screen so graciously compared for me; all the consequences of our invasion of Iraq which, if I am to believe Karl Rove, was a direct consequence of 9/11. Well this Dem admits that he still doesn't fully get an Iraq invasion as a consequence of 9/11.

How on Earth did we let this happen?

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Ron Mexico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. Rove shouldn't apologize at all.
Who would be stupid enough to take his apology seriously anyway?

Look, I want Reid, Dean and Durbin to speak out loud without having our wussified culture go into a tizzy and demand apologies. Let Rove do it too. Rove's crap is only helping us anyway.

Why is it that nobody can speak his or her mind without a bunch of people demanding apologies that would be meaningless anyway? WHY?



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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I'm with you...
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I don't want him to apoligize...
I want the same GOP blowhards who criticized Durbin and Dean (while ignoring idiotic statements by the likes of Santorum) to speak up now and criticize one of their own. I want them to acknowledge and rebuke his remarks. It's the only way this crap is going to end.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Instead of demanding an apology from the scum Rove...
Re-frame the issue.

"Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war." Rove

The Bush Regime was preparing for war on Iraq before the 911 Attack. The Bush Regime lied to the Congress. The Bush Regime betrayed America. The Bush Regime needs to be Impeached, NOW!
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. And furthermore, don't you WANT to understand...
your enemy before engaging in battle? It's straight from Sun-Tzu:
"Know yourself and understand your enemy and your victory in any balle will not be in jeopardy"

So why is it bad that we wanted to understand the enemy and the motives that drive them to do what they do? Would it not make it easier to defeat the enemy? And perhaps by knowing what motivates them we can take away their initiative.

Or do GOP chickenhawks believe we lack the ingenuity to outsmart our enemy and therefore must solely rely on brute force to achieve victory?
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Ron Mexico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. They won't, and that's what's so great about this!
People will see them for what they are when you have the two sides to compare.

People who demand apologies from Rove are missing the boat, and that includes Reid. We have an amazing opportunity here.
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