Is Wesley Clark helping or hurting the Democratic party?

[Sparkly]

I am not interested in whether he's helping or hurting Fox or Murdoch.

My only question is whether his bringing a Democratic viewpoint on foreign policy to a new audience helps or hurts the party.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Helping.

He speaks in a manner and language that conservatives are willing to listen to. He's a big help. If you want to win converts, you have to get them to listen to you. He's doing that.

[howmad1]

34. JUST A SECOND:

That's one hell of an assumption your making that conservatives will listen and understand the language of rationality and truth. As I see it, the only advantage in having the General on faux is to piss of the neocon right wing whackos. That should be fun.

[skooooo]

2. As long as a non-right-winger is expressing an opinion...

...I think it can't do anything but help. Clark is accepted by more "moderates" and isn't so easily manipulated by the media. So, imo, it's a good thing.

[oscar111]

3. tax shift helps , if he is still talking on that

his idea of no tax on below the averager fifty K... and shift that load upward.

[napi21]

4. Wait and see what he does and says on air.

You can't answer your question yet. I never even turn on FOX anymore, so I'm going to depend on other DUers to make that assessment.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

5. I'm no big Clark fan

but that guy is definitely helping the Democratic Party.
His experience, knowledge & calm & positive manner
are impressive & all help retool the Dem image in the minds
of non-Dems. No doubt about it.

[stevedeshazer]

6. Helping

Clark comes off as a reasonable guy to all but the most hard-core radical right.

The more Democrats that are talking sense and being heard in the media, the better off we are. Wes Clark also has military credibility at a time when the radical right is losing support for the current illegal and immoral war.

What do you think? Just curious, it's a good question.

[sellitman]

7. I wouldn't watch Fux News no matter what but...

I don't see the problem with Clark trying to impart some common sense on a channal that usually has none. The only danger he faces is looking like Ailes bitch if they don't let him speak his mind. I hope he can speak his peace and it is uncensored.

[tabasco]

8. I trust General Clark.

He is helping by spreading the liberal message to the uneducated masses.

It is important to counter the pervasive anti-liberal propaganda, which is massively funded by corporations, and causes working people to vote against their interests.

Clark is not afraid to take the battle into the heathens' den.

[ClarkUSA]

31. Damn straight.

[stray cat]

9. Clark helps - a wise independent voice is never bad.

Clark may be the only voice of reason a Fox viewer will be exposed to. Also Clark doesn't sound like a partisan hack.

[mcscajun]

10. As long as he keeps speaking the truth and challenging Hannity et al,

He's a Big Help. He's gonna be turning Faux News into Smackdown Central. :)

[Donna Zen]

11. Having a Democrat

look smarter, speak more coherently, frame the issues, and all in all expose the fox-mongers for what they are--something dangling from a rat's ass, would seem like a very good thing.

Although to judge from many of the latest threads at DU, it would be better to chose pure over pragmatic and just continue along this same "winning" path, keeping Karl's message unchallenged.

(snark and gack)

But we'd be pure.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

13. ew

"expose the fox-mongers for what they are--something dangling from a rat's ass"

FOX NEWS!--FAIR & BALANCED & DANGLING FROM A RAT'S ASS!

[Adelante]

19. She has a way with words

That Clarkie woman :)

[FreeStateDemocrat]

40. How grossly obscene yet so unerringly descriptive of a pimple on MSM's ass

[Donna Zen]

47. What? Did I get carried away?

I just had to work in the term "rat's ass." All of those apico-alveolar sibilants with their nearly onomatopic connotative reference to a snake cannot be resisted. As for the "dangling," perhaps it was just my word-of-the-day; I used it several times. Or then again, with its two stops (d and g) coupled with the lateral, it just seemed liked a joyous noise.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

48. The best part was the mysterious "something" dangling

from the rat's ass of FoxNews.
The imagination shrieks at the UDO (Unidentified Dangling Object).
Something half-digested, maybe partly alive, having passed
through the diseased intestines of the filthy beast
but still hanging on and swaying as the rat tries to flee
its own tenacious waste. Something like that. FoxNews.

[PurityOfEssence]

12. He's helping

The bottom line with this man is this: in service to his country for most of his adult life, he essentially washed ashore into civilian life. What is the default affiliation of a decent person? The Democratic Party is, and he saw this.

Whether this current move is a good one or not remains to be seen. I am VERY skeptical that anyone watching that hatevision can be swayed, but who knows?

Legitimizing Fox is a horrible thing, but infiltrating them isn't, if done right.

Besides the disgust I have at legitimizing these swine, I also know that his words can be very carefully used to drive wedges in the party and discredit him personally. He's smart. He's even REALLY smart, but he only has to misspeak once or twice to give them massive ammunition, and they're not above doing such a thing.

[ClarkUSA]

30. You got it 100% right and your concerned warning is warranted too

Thanks. :hi:

[FrenchieCat]

14. It's all better than good......

if I'm ever asked...as long as WesPAC continues to provide me with the EXACT time that he will be on.

I don't want to have to watch more of Faux than I have to....cause that's like F&cking Torture at Gizmo!

Plus, I like seeing Wes on the Teevee telling those clueless in the pickup truck that this dumbass administration has it exactly backwards.

It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. As long as he's wearing his combat boots as he wades through the sh*t....he'll be awright! :thumbsup:

[Lexingtonian]

15. He's doing the right thing

Moderate Republicans are the political demographic where the national debate about support or opposition to hardline Republican policy is these days. The more factual information they get from sources they have some trust in, the better for Democrats.

As for all the whining about Clinton, Kerry, Clark around here lately...it's the idea of giving up all the defensive moralizing posturings that seems to be at the bottom of the anxiety. In warfare, these are people who refuse to leave the trenches and fortifications (after a very long time in them) to fight on the open field and take the war to the weakening enemy. It's a kind of conservatism of its own, a defeatism, a visceral fear of losing a mental crutch or safety in any offensive operation. Fortress mentality.

But to win the war, to win political respect and majority, we have to go forward and over or around the Other Side's defenses at some point. There are no more substantial numbers of educated and reliable voters to get elsewhere. Taking away Republican voters is simply what is necessary and available. It also destroys their Party in the longer run. It's a twofer.

I don't actually see what is actually being given up for them in the long run- the country continues to slip liberal, the Party leaders are simply standing still for a period of time and letting moderate Republicans slip past them, separating them from Bush and their own Party. The Clintons, Kerry, Clark, Pelosi, Dean, Reid, etc. can always turn Left/liberal on a moment's notice. I know how much many DUers want that for emotional reasons, but there's so much to be won politically by just standing still that it's far wiser and better for us in the long run.

Wedge politics can be so much fun when it works in your favor. Give it a chance.

[CTyankee]

16. Hard for the rw to slander him

but of course we haven't heard them try yet. If he gets some serious political traction, watch out. They'll be out there yapping about his overdue library books.

[mtnsnake]

17. Helping. As much as I won't watch Fox myself,

it can't do anything but help put a little balance into that slanted network and its viewers. Every little bit helps.

I only hope he doesn't tone down his rhetoric just beause he's going to be on Fox, though.

[funkybutt]

18. helping n/t

[LuPeRcALiO]

20. helping

as far as I can see. Elections are determined by swing voters and they DO watch Fox.


Don't they? :)

[Texas_Kat]

24. According to the last Pew poll

21% of Democrats and 22% also watch Fox

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=215

[Toots]

36. 21% of Democrats.. Let's see that would be about 13 million Democrats

I don't think fox has that sort of viewership do you?:shrug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. I may be wrong but

I take it to mean that 22% of Foxes viewers are Democrats, not that 22% of all Democrasts view FOX. It's still a lot of Democrats.

[Texas_Kat]

44. Yep, sorry... wrong preposition

21% of Fox viewers consider themselves Democrats. Anyway you slice it, it's a big chunk.

[ElectroPrincess]

21. Helping n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

22. I would love to know

My only question is whether his bringing a Democratic viewpoint on foreign policy to a new audience helps or hurts the party.

I would love to know how bringing a Democratic viewpoint on foreign policy to a new audience could possibly HURT the Democratic party.

You DID mean the DEMOCRATIC party, yes? Because if you were referring to the Republican party, then yeah, they'd be in for a world of hurt.

Considering the question, I'm left seriously wondering which party you'd be concerned about hurting.

[ncteechur]

23. At this point, he is one of few that embodies the Democratic Party.

[1932]

25. Well, what's he saying?

Everyone here is talking about DSM. Does it help to talk about that? Is he talking about DSM?

When he was on Fox, what did he say?

Of course he wasn't going to apologize for Durbin, so that's no surprise.

[Donna Zen]

26. We were lucky

Wes has been telling us everything that is coming out of the DSM for years now. Just as Paul O'Neill told the world, and ditto Richard Clarke after We urged him to go pubic.

Wolffie asked Clark about the DSM the last time he had Clark on. Clark repeated that it was nothing new--but that it was very important because it spelled out exactly what people have known for a long time. He said that before the IWR he had talked about this "rush to war" with many people including congress critters. But he said, he and others failed to stop the bushes by convincing enough of the congress.

[mvd]

27. Clark has grown on me over time

Compared with most Democrats, I'd say he's helping. FAUX is in a no-win situation: fire him, and the audience might wonder what they are trying to silence (and for many of the FAUX audience, thinking for themselves politically would be a first!) If he stays, then we have a real voice on FAUX.

[jen4clark]

28. Helping

General Clark has long encouraged us to listen to the right-wing talk shows and call in with FACTS - to write letters to the editor pointing out truth and facts. He's practicing what he preaches. Again.

[ClarkUSA]

29. Helping, not that some "People" can ever admit it BUT I CAN

Wes Clark can see the big picture - to win in 2006, we'll have to get some crossover votes.

Of course, some People Never Change but we already knew that.

[The Jacobin]

32. I NEVER watch fox

and I rarely listen to either Hannity or Comes on the radio. They are both pathethic whining morons with persecution complexes.

But I take it Clark is doing some kind of analysis for Fox?

So what? Those knuckle-draggers will never be swayed by a million hours of rational thought from a rational Democrat. As that is the core Fox news auduence, it will be wasted there.

I do wonder how many soft repugs can be reached there though. Do they watch that crap? If so, then maybe it can help.

Otherwise it just provides high quality video clips to cut up by the likes of O'Riley and used as a club against Clark.

P.S. Clark would be better spending his time being a politician if he wants to run for office. He has yet to win a single elected office -- and I am really only interested in backing proven winners.

[CarolNYC]

35. Whether the moves helps or hurts him should he run again

remains to be seen.

Right now I think he's more concerned with helping other Dems get elected.

I do believe there are persuadable people in the Fox audience...Heck, I know some of them. There are also unpersuadable ones...Unfortunately, I know some of those too. :(

He's taking a bold, brave and risky move but then that is his usual way. I think he's definitely helping.

[Auntie Bush]

39. "and I am really only interested in backing proven winners."

Earning the rank of 4 star General should be proof enough that he is a PROVEN WINNER ...especially since that accomplishment is said to be very political. Yes, he has all the qualifications and brains needed to run for the President of the US.

[Larry in KC]

41. And not to split hairs, but by your definition of a "proven winner"...

You'd back Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller

And, for that matter, that category technically includes...

Katherine Harris
Jeb Bush
Donald Rumsfeld
Dick Cheney
John Ashcroft
George W. Bush

...but you wouldn't back Wesley Clark?

[Lugnut]

33. I think he helps

He has the facts at his fingertips to refute the wingnuts and a calm demeanor. Unfortunately I don't watch Fox.

[Ilsa]

38. Helping IMO.

His experience with NATO and his military career lend strength and security as important issues of Dems. His brilliance and ability to handle himself on the airways help strengthen the our political positions when debating the ring-wingers.

[liberaliraqvet26]

42. Helping...

he is a credible face with a great record who can make the chickenhawks up there look like the fools that they are.

[wisteria]

43. The answer to your question depends on how much

Democratic policy is allowed to be heard. Someone will have to let me know how they actually utilize Gen. Clark. I have no intention of providing any additional ratings to this Republican news station.

[ClarkUSA]

45. Do you have a Nielsen box?

Because that's the only way to help their ratings.

I don't, so I can spare to watch the few minutes he's on tripping up GOP mouthpieces.

Then again, I'm not afraid of listening to AAR because I'll drive up mega-Bush/Cheney 2000 & 2004 campaign and RNC contributor Clear Channel's market share, either.

[ClarkUSA]

46. For those on the fence, see for yourself today at 6:10 PM

Check out his appearance on C-SPAN, too, where he defends Howard Dean:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1867750

Dean last Sunday, Durbin a few days ago - Wes Clark is a Democrat who knows the value of supporting his colleagues and the Party.

DU, are you listening? Of course, some People Never Change.