Does anyone have Copy of *Anti-Israel Literature* passed at DSM Hearings

[KoKo]

DU'ers who attended the Meeting or were at DNC Headquarters? How many people were passing this literature around? Was it just one person or several passing out literature.

Without a viewable copy of this literature how are we supposed to judge?
Should we take the word of a "Washington Post" writer or the anonymous AP Wire writer who wrote a story about the claims of the material being anti-Semitic or anti-Israel?

I would think someone would have a copy or know who was supposedly passing the info around. Surely someone would have asked what organization they were with.

Unlike the Repugs we don't imploy thugs to screen people coming to our meetings...so it may be impossible to know, but it's important to see what was said in the handouts or flyers and surely there's a copy somewhere. :shrug:

[justinsb]

1. I don't have a copy

but from what I've heard from them - the quotes I've seen, they don't sound anti-semetic, they sound like they are critical of Isreal which is, in my view, entirely different.

[KoKo]

5. Someone has to have a copy.

Will Pitt was bloggin and folks were at the Lafayette Square Demo. Was the literature being passed around at the Demonstration? If the literature was inflammatory someone would have saved it wouldn't they? If we can track down who was passing it out and what it said, either inflammatory or not...it would be a good story for us to do to counteract the WaPo and others who are trying to make the Literature the Story and not what Representative Conyer's and those brave folks who testified were about.

Someone just has to have a copy...:shrug: Where is it?

[Trajan]

7. Confuting the two ...

Anti-Israel government sentiments, and anti-semitism, is a great tradition, even here ....

[justinsb]

10. It's a nice shield for Israel

But I don't buy it. One of the reasons that you separate the two is that now that Israel is a state, I don't care if they are Jewish, Buddhist, Baptist or Harri Krishna it doesn't change how I view their policies and actions - not even a factor in the equation.

[Just Me]

21. Moreover, this story distracts from a very serious issue,...

,...raised by McGovern: O.I.L.

What if,....

The US administration sacrificed, even endangered, US national and economic security in order to advance the geopolitical interests of another nation? There is a name for that.

[Clark2008]

26. T-R-E-A-S-O-N

I believe that's how you spell it.

[Just Me]

30. Yup. Just don't mention the nation whose geopolitical interests were,...

,...being advanced. :eyes: If you do, your character will be assasinated as an "anti-semite",...doncha' know!

Interesting though. Here we have a cabal that intentionally defrauded its own government and people in order to exploit them into sacrificing life and treasure for a concealed agenda that served the interests of multi-national corporations (which have no allegiance to any country) and another sovereign nation.

:wow: THAT is some serious bad shit against our nation, our Constitution, our people!!!!

I want to know whether or not the journalist who wrote this story actually has the pamphlet on hand. If so, I want to see what's in it and I want the journalist to name names: who handed the pamphlet out. Otherwise, I will assume that this journalist is simply a HO for the cabal that commits treason and "high crimes and misdemeanors" against its people.

[janx]

2. I have wondered since yesterday (when this story broke)

what the "literature" said and who was responsible for distributing it at DNC headquarters.

Nobody seems to know anything.

[Malva Zebrina]

3. Yes, I would like an answer to that also

Who were the people passing it out and what did it say that was "anti-semitic"? I don't think that Mr. Mcgovern's statement was anti-semitic in the least. He simply was stating facts. When simply mentioning the political demographics of this area of the world, and giving an opinion , as a retired intelligence officer btw, constitues anti-semitism, well we all may as well just pretend that Israel does not exist, is not a factor in influencing, negatively or positively, anything that goes on in the ME. Let's just avoid that sticky wicket, lest we be called anti-semitic.

[sandnsea]

4. It doesn't matter

Don't spread the story by defending it. Attack the presstitutes for concocting it in order to discredit Conyers and bury the DSM story.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1102

[KoKo]

6. Well...it really DOES matter...See my post #5.

We are having discussions all over this board today about "flyers: that no one seems to have a text for. Rep Conyers and our DNC Chairman Dr. Dean have had to make statements about these flyers or handouts.

Remember Swift Boat Liars? How do we know these aren't lies once again just to tarnish the Hearing?

[sandnsea]

9. They are

Click the link and read the stories. They are concocting the anti-Semitic thing anyway, with or without the fliers. You either get in front of the story and frame it, or play defense. We never should have gotten into a tit for tat with the SB Liars, it always should have been about the Republican smear machines and media complicity. Let's try to do it right with this one, shall we?

I gotta go.

[Just Me]

12. Well, we would be in a position of offense if we reveal,...

,...that there either were no flyers or the flyers had no anti-semitic literature or the flyers were handed out by covert operators. I think it's imperative we track these things down because if we discover that the WP/AP are engaging in intentional sabatoge, we MUST go after them.

[sandnsea]

22. "covert operators"

Just what I want, for the story to be whether or not there were covert operators instead of the blatant smear campaign to bury the DSM that it already is. Sorry, this is how we got in trouble with the swift boats, by debating their claims instead of exposing the blatant media complicit smear campaign. It's what they do, concoct smear campaigns to divert people's attention away from the real issues. We have to stop buying in.

If there was NO literature, that would be one thing. But somebody who was there already said there was.

[Just Me]

8. I have the same questions. To me, the WP/AP allegation of,...

,...anti-semitism without seeing the content of those flyers and knowing who was responsible for creating them and passing them out is NOT NOT NOT credible to "Just Me".

[bribri16]

11. It's a tactic used by the RW here and the Likud in Isarel

When the evidence is against you, cry anti-Americanism or anti-Semitism and scare people away from telling the truth. I just refuse to buy it. If anti-Israel literature was passed out during this hearing I'll bet anything that pro-Israeli and pro-neocon supporters did it to try to discredit the hearings and the people involved. It's a tactic that they have used for decades AND it has worked. But we must not let them get away with it now. Our very nation is at stake.

[KoKo]

13. It guess it will remain: "The Strange Case of the Missing Flyers."

and the "vanishing activist/or activists who distributed them."

Don't talk about it because it will call more attention to it. :eyes:

[bklyncowgirl]

14. I'm curious about this too. Did Milbank make this up?

From Conyer's and Dean's statements it's not clear whether either of them had actually seen the "literature" involved. Conyers states that there were several sorts of literature passed out and that the anti-semitic stuff was a tiny part of what was distributed. Dean mentions that the pamphlet(s) tied Israel into 9/11 and made a broad brush statement against anti-semitism.

Both appear to have been reacting to Milbank's story to deflate attempts by the Republican smear maching to tar the hearings with an anti-semitic brush. That was the right thing to do. Imagine if they'd let this ride.

The question is, does Dana Milbank have the pamphlet in question or did he just hear about it from some unnamed source? This is a matter of the Washington Post's journalistic integrity--or does integrity only matter when a reporter criticizes Democrats.

[KoKo]

16. Exactly. Was Milbank at the hearings or was this "phoned in" from the

"plant." If it was something he was there, saw and could quote from he could be believable. The fact that he didn't quote, couldn't quote seems to say that whatever it was if there was anything was an excuse for him to distract from the hearings.

That's why I want to see what what the flyer said and track down who was passing them out. But, not being there myself, was hoping one of our DU'ers who was there, knew a little more.

[LuPeRcALiO]

15. I'd assume it doesn't exist.

All Milbank needed was that secondhand quote from Tenet about McGovern being an anti-Semite, conveniently provided by McGovern himself.

The rest is set dressing.

[KoKo]

17. Then McGovern would have been trashed anyway, whether he used

the quote about Tenant or not. So, he got it out there on the table and those who want to destroy his credibility now say there was "Anti-Israel literature being passed out at DNC headquarters."

The tie between the literature and DNC headquarters was nastily sneaked in so there was nothing else Conyers and Dean could do but jump on it fast before the RW Smear Machine started their weekend "wave" which then would be carried through by the Limbaugh crowd all next week.

It's sad it's come to this...but we've known just as with the Swift Boat Liars "they" will use everything against us.

I still want to see the actual flyer, though.

[LuPeRcALiO]

18. yep

The Tenet quote is apparently something McGovern actually said, but the DNC flyers were probably thrown in to trick Dean into making a hasty statement, which he did.

[KoKo]

19. Conyers and Dean had to jump on it. as I said in my post..

if not it would have gone on all week. Remember Kerry was criticized by not countering the Swift Boat Liars sooner.

It could be what you say...maybe an over-reaction...but then an "underaction" also has consequences. So, they went for the quick rebuttal. :shrug:

[LuPeRcALiO]

20. Conyers' letter to the Post would have been enough.

It very clearly separates the alleged flyers from McGovern's statement.

I don't blame Dean for a second, but his statement muddles them up in a way that discredits the whole proceeding. Very convenient.

[Just Me]

23. I still want to see them and know who produced them.

I CAN'T HELP MYSELF!!! :P

[KoKo]

24. Kick...people still talk about the flyers but no one has the text?

Hopefully a DU'er who was there has a copy of what was handed out at the DNC Headquarters or even maybe at the Lafayette Square protest?
How can the literature be judged one way or the other if the press doesn't quote? :shrug:

[KoKo]

25. Hellooooooooooooooooo......Is anyone out there? No DU'ers attended

the DSM Hearings? No one knows what was in that flyer or flyers.

Why hasn't anyone replied who was there? :shrug:

[KoKo]

27. Am I on folks "Ignore" list, here?

:shrug:

[Pepperbelly]

28. maybe no one has seen such a critter...

So far at least.

[KoKo]

46. Well...Pepperbelly...you make a good point...but why then have our

two major Dem Leaders Conyers/Dean ("leaders" at this point in time, anyway had to "publically address" the literature (flyers) "supposedly" handed out by "one or more Activists" at the "Downing Street Hearings."

:shrug: Was this all targeted to Ray McGovern's "damning" comments and there really were no "activists or activist" handing out flyers.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of this...but not getting much help. Surely SOMEONE SAW the FLYERS?

No one on DU seems to know. :shrug: First time I've ever seen DU'ers go "SLACK" in all my years here.

[janx]

29. HA! Don't you hate it when you post multiple times and

nobody answers?

The people to ask are the people who were at DNC headquarters, where these things were supposed to have been distributed. Some DUers were in town for the rally, but there's no way of knowing if any of them graced DNC headquarters.

Maybe Pitt knows.

[KoKo]

32. I know ...Will Pitt was there! Can't he help us with this?

:crazy: A post with 164 replies over in LBN about Dean coming out to make statement about anti-Semitic literature...and no one can tell us what was said in the flyers.

WHY?

[janx]

36. Darned if I know--and it was my post. n/t

[Just Me]

31. Perhaps, we should demand production of the pamphlet,...

,...and the names of those who created it and handed it out. Surely, this journalist was responsible enough to have that information on hand before writing the article.

[KoKo]

33. Usually this is the kind of issue that gets lots of attention on DU , but

I'm starting to worry that I'm on "ignore" list, for sure. Dana Milbank mentions it, John Conyers and Howard Dean have to refute it...but nobody here or anywhere else has ever seen a copy of what was passed out and was it just one person or several passing it out. Did anyone talk to the people passing it out...WHAT? I thought there were over 500 people in Lafayette Park Demo and DNC Headquarters was "overflow" for Conyers Hearings...yet no one answers me.

:shrug:

[Tinoire]

37. You're definitely not on mine but no flyer! Here's my analysis...

I'm eagerly awaiting to see this mysterious flyer but as time passes, I truly wonder if any anti-Semitic flyer even exists. My gut feeling from the start is that a mountain has been made out of a molehill, with the specific intention of discrediting the DSM participants, which is why they dare not produce said flyer. I've seen the ensuing literature and it ain't pretty. Take this one for example

The Democrats sign up with the anti-Semites
June 18th, 2005

It is important that support for Israel in the US Congress is bipartisan. Israel, the only functioning democracy in the Middle East, has no real friend in the world other than America. (...) A major reason for the support for a strong US Israel relationship in Congress, and the fact that it has remained bipartisan, has been the work of AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

Regrettably, this bipartisan support appears to be slipping away. A year ago, I wrote an article titled Why the left hates Israel, pointing out how the biggest threat to the Jewish state today comes from the political left. But I noted then, that at least in Congress, where support for Israel might be a bit stronger among the GOP than among Democratic members, the fever swamps of anti-Israel hate had not yet reached into the Democratic side of the aisle, with the exception of a very few members such as Cynthia McKinney, Jim Moran, and Fritz Hollings.

The session took an awkward turn when witness Ray McGovern, a former intelligence analyst, declared that the United States went to war in Iraq for oil, Israel and military bases craved by administration "neocons" so "the United States and Israel could dominate that part of the world." He said that Israel should not be considered an ally and that Bush was doing the bidding of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

"Israel is not allowed to be brought up in polite conversation," McGovern said. 'The last time I did this, the previous director of Central Intelligence called me anti-Semitic."

Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.), who prompted the question by wondering whether the true war motive was Iraq's threat to Israel, thanked McGovern for his "candid answer."

At Democratic headquarters, where an overflow crowd watched the hearing on television, activists handed out documents repeating two accusations -- that an Israeli company had warning of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and that there was an "insider trading scam" on 9/11 -- that previously has been used to suggest Israel was behind the attacks.

The event organizer, Democrats.com, distributed stickers saying "Bush lied/100,000 people died." One man's T-shirt proclaimed, "Whether you like Bush or not, he's still an incompetent liar," while a large poster of Uncle Sam announced: "Got kids? I want yours for cannon fodder."

So the Democrats in Congress are now giving voice and credibility to the view that Israel was responsible for the Iraq war. And other Democrats, watching the hearing at the DNC, are hosting anti-Semites who argue that Israel had advance warning of the 9/11 attacks and is therefore responsible for allowing the attacks to occur. And even deeper into familiar anti-Semitic tropes: that Israelis withheld the information so as to benefit financially.

(snip)
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4578

Notice the stunning conclusion: "So the Democrats in Congress are now giving voice and credibility to the view that Israel was responsible for the Iraq war."

And there you have it.

The fight is against Conyers for allowing McGovern to spew "vile, anti-Semitic rhetoric" simply because he stated that the war was part of an effort to allow the United States and Israel to "dominate that part of the world". And Dean's rebuke, in the name of the Democratic Party was the to Conyers and McGovern which is why it specifically stated "As for any inferences that the United States went to war so Israel could 'dominate' the Middle East or that Israel was in any way behind the horrific September 11th attacks on America, let me say unequivocally that such statements are nothing but vile, anti-Semitic rhetoric".

The DNC, and specifically the Congressional Black Caucus with which AIPAC has been at war, was put on notice by them because

the support for Israel among African American Congressmen, all Democrats, has dropped in recent years. However, the defeat in the 2002 cycle of Cynthia McKinney, and Earl Hilliard, two members who were hostile to Israel, and the election to their seats of Denise Majettte and Arthur Davis, has put two highly visible, very pro-Israel African Americans into the Congress.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3371

Likudniks getting scared. Not liking that the CBC marches to its own tune, not wanting any Israeli involvement to even be hinted at in respect to the Iraq war and not liking that the Left has a problem with Bush being wrapped around Sharon's finger ever since Sharon took him on that famous helicopter ride and conspired to manufacture the pathetic evidence used to justify this obscenity against Iraq.

[KoKo]

47. sadly.......what you say must be true because no one steps up with the

flyer. No one can quote text. Not Dana Milbank or anyone you reference.

So...it was a counter attack thinking that we would be so "defensive after years of abuse by the RW" that we would cave and just apologize.

Well...it's a sad time we live in with those of us who aren't "doctrinaire" being forced out of any discussion.

Thanks for your links, Tinoire. I will check them out more thoroughly.

[KoKo]

48. btw, check out what was on C-Span this a.m. from "Ethics & Public Policy

Center." I feel more and more like a total minority of 1/2% these days after seeing your links and watching this stuff:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3896020&mesg_id=3896020

[Senior citizen]

34. I'm anti-Semitic.

Not that I want to harm Jews or Israel, in fact I'm Jewish. Just that I'm a feminist and I have no respect whatsoever for patriarchal religions or nations. If all theocracies disappeared from the earth tomorrow, I wouldn't shed a tear. 5,000 years of crusades, jihads, wars, genocides, slavery, hatred, and divisiveness is quite enough, thank you. I'm fervently anti-fascist with every bone in my body, but that doesn't make me pro-Jewish, or pro-Palestinian, or pro-anything that isn't egalitarian and democratic.

Our current "administration" is not egalitarian or democratic. Neither are BFEE supporters. But the enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend.

I've been doing everything I can do raise awareness of the Downing Street Dossier, and I'm proud to be one of the more than half a million names on the Conyers petition. I believe there can be no more honorable death than dying for democracy. But as for anti-Semitism, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. I don't care if Commander Cuckoobananas is supporting Israel, or Israel is supporting him--if they're in cahoots they belong in the World Court for war crimes. According to Amnesty International, more than 85% of the casualties in modern warfare are women, children, the elderly, and other noncombatants. That makes me pro-peace. I am opposed to wars of aggression no matter who starts them and no matter who they are waged against, but I favor intervention in cases of genocide. I support the right of people to defend themselves and to defend freedom and democracy.

This is obviously a red herring, but if you want an anti-Semite to attack, here I am.

[KoKo]

35. Thank you for your post. It's hard to know how to reply...but I agree

with what you say. I'm not Jewish but a struggling Episcopalian...wondering where Christ's teachings in the New Testament have gone wrong that so many folks could use the New Testament for their own gain and distort the only translations of his words that we know.

Opus Dei, Likud, Fundamentalist Christians who take Bible (even though many translations and compromises have probably diluted the original message to fit politics through the ages) "Literally" and trash the rest of us as being "Secularists or Christophobics."

It's just incredible that some of us no longer have a voice in either politics in our Countries or Political Influence eroding our own beliefs...whether we are Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews. :shrug:

At some point their's going to be a huge Religious Reformation once again. So "abused and used" are the teachings and historic foundations of Biblical and New Testament writings that we know. :shurg:

[Senior citizen]

38. The day I see a Jewish or Moslem nation that

isn't a theocracy, and is democratic and egalitarian, is the day I'll stop being anti-Semitic. The same goes for theocracies of any other stripe. I've read that Israel tried to be democratic and egalitarian, and not to be a theocracy when it first started, but that didn't last very long. America was supposed to be the great experiment where freedom of religion would give us freedom from religious strife. That doesn't seem to have lasted either--all BFEE cares about is appointing judges who are anti-choice, pro-prayer in schools, and guaranteed to rule in favor of politicians and corporations against the little guy, no matter how egregious the harm.

The pukes denied Conyers the use of a larger hearing room, scheduled an unprecedented 11 floor votes back to back during the hearing, and did everything else they could to supress it. I wouldn't put ANY sort of disruption past them.

But I do recall one of the speakers mentioning Israel (as in O.I.L--Oil, Israel, and I forget the third one) as being behind the BFEE insistance on invading Iraq. I still go with the theory that Dubya just wanted to upstage his daddy by pushing through to Baghdad and capturing Saddam, and that the PNAC played on his immaturity and insecurity to get their agenda through. Since they knew that would appeal to him, they could have used whatever justifications came to mind.

[Joacheme Misrahe]

40. Jewish, Muslim, Christian are all the same

IMO christ was akin to any modern day person who claims to be supernatural. He doesn't read to be violent, but then again in a theocracy running a religion that isn't popular gets you killed. There's your explanation for that.

There are real understandings for all of it. You have to remember what life was like back then. Why say you never had sex and were made pregnant by god? Because at the time having sex would get you stoned to death.

In any case - they all have the same origins. A bunch of tribes that couldn't get along then and can't get along today, each with a similar but somewhat different set of beliefs written by people a very long time ago.

We have a christian theocracy in the US. Is it rounding people up and shooting them yet? Not yet, but give it a few more rigged elections.

[Tinoire]

39. Yes and you're the problem... You're opening "floodgates" by your refusal

to follow marching orders. You baaaad Progressive you! Pro-peace, pro-justice, pro-people! Did no one tell you that was no longer allowed? Such subversive ideas stand in the way of exploitation.

By the way... writing this post to you just made me remember my deceased father laughing his head off that when the press put out the list of subversive books found by Kaczynski's nightstand- one of those books was Hugo's "Les Miserables".

You either laugh or weep. Either way, thank you for manning those progressive floodgates.

===

6. Jewish leftists are prominent in the anti-Israel movement. This opens the floodgates for everybody else.

(snip)

6. Jews Who Hate Israel

The passion with which the left hates Israel is also related to the fact that the left contains many Jewish haters of Israel. When Noam Chomsky, and Norman Finkelstein are the thought leaders of the movement to deny Israel’s legitimacy, and moral standing, this gives cover to those who hate Israel for perhaps baser motives- raw anti-Semitism for instance. Israel’s universities are full of professors who detest Israel and Zionism, such as Ilan Pappe, and major Israeli newspapers such as Haaretz employ Jewish pro-Palestinian writers such as Gideon Levy and Amira Hess. Many Jewish anti-Zionists in this country get their guidance from Israelis in various left wing groups, such as Jeff Halper, who are actively working to destroy the Jewish state.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3371

[bicentennial_baby]

41. "The Other Israel"

Did you read that one? That's where I found that "politicus interruptus" quote a year or two ago...remember that? I need to get that book back. My polisci prof borrowed it a year ago!

[Tinoire]

42. No but I will now!

And :hi:

Please send me your mailing address so I can send you that French music :)

[KoKo]

43. As I say...it's very hard for me a reader of "New Testament" and a

protestant Episcopalian to understand why those of us who support Israel's right to exist seem to be trashed by some new Religious Movement which seems to include the right wings of the Major Religious Theologies, Islam, Catholicism and Judaism...seem to forget those of us who went throught the Reformation without becoming some kind of doctrinaires who might have supported the Salem Witch Trials and the Purges that have gone on in America including the Racist ones with the "KKK" on down to David Duke and what we are now seeing with the "PNAC" and the "Opus Dei."

I can't understand how even the "consensus of Jesus's writings" watered down and done by "committee" which still stand as guidlines for us "mainstream Protestants" could be so distorted that now we are being urged to go back to "Old Testament Foundations" of "eye for an eye" the "word of God" is the "Infinite Word and those who DO NOT HEED will BE Hit by the MIGHTY SWORD...OF I AM THE GOD JEHOVAH... THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY ME SHALL BE KILLED WITH PLAGUE AND PESTILENCE...etc...etc...etc.

The words of the "New Testament" are filled with Promise from the words of Jesus...all the tenants that we hold dear. "Do unto others as I would do unto the least of you" ...blessed are the meek (the poor and disenfranchised) for THEY shall inherit the Earth...and on an on. Jesus was a messenger of HOPE that God brought onto this Earth...Do this for the Least amongst us and your days shall be long upon this earth." At least that's my view of what I learned from teachers in my faith all these years?

Yet, so many would force us back to the Old Testament and that doomful unredemptive philosophy. :-(

It's really hard to know how to deal with anything these days unless one can hold to a center of one's own convictions and beliefs and be STRONG agains the backlash. :shrug:

[Joacheme Misrahe]

44. Oh please

As if the "new testament" is so sweet and nice. Go ahead and cherry pick the good stuff while you pretend the bad doesn't exist.

The only difference between the good christians and the bad is what the cherry pick out of a very violent book.

[KoKo]

45. Two Days and no one has seen the text of the Flyers Distributed that

caused John Conyers and Howard Dean to have to apologize. :shrug:

It seems that NO DU'ers were present at the Hearings, at DNC or in Lafayette Park?

How could that be? No DU'ers saw the info yet our Dems have to apologize for it? :shrug: Kind of Indredible...