Clark and Dean

[yebrent]

I've been a proud Clark supporter since the draft Clark movement and I am rapidly becoming a Deaniac.

The media and others have attempted to pit Clark and his supporters against Dean and his supporters. This began with Clark entering the race when Democratic establishment were looking for an anti-Dean candidate. I'm still not sure whether Clark really viewed himself as an anti-Dean candidate? After all, Dean was the only other first tier candidate who like Clark, actively spoke out against the invasion of Iraq. They already had that in common.

Two years after I started following both of their careers, and over a year after the end of the Democratic Primaries, they and their followings seem more alike than not. Clark and Dean both command media attention at every speaking engagement and are not afraid to go after BushCo. They both command attention from the Democratic establishment, with Dean as Chair of the DNC and Clark as the "go to guy" for the Democrats foreign policy stance. They both have extremely loyal followings that will do just about anything to support their hero. Yes, both are viewed as heros by their following, which can't be said for many Democratic leaders. Six months after Kerry's loss, they both have the largest grassroots support in the Democratic Party.

It just hit me today, why Clark and Dean and their respective and increasingly shared following seem to be on the same page lately...




THEY ARE BOTH OUTSIDE THE BELTWAY POLITICIANS!!!


Democratic candidates running against Republican incumbents in the House and Senate in 2006, must run as Reformers. They must blast the Republican run House and Senate for being out of touch with America.

and

The next Democratic Party candidate for President MUST be an outside the beltway candidate!!!

[sendero]

1. At the present time..

.... Dean and Clark are the shining hopes for the party IMHO. Let's hope they work together.

[CarolNYC]

27. Yep....

I agree...and I hope they work together too.

[wryter2000]

2. Yup

A confirmed Deaniac here who also loves Clark. We are not each others' enemies.

[oldtime dfl_er]

6. I wish I'd taken a shine to Dean earlier

I remember there was a rumor, early early , that said Karl Rove had pointed to Howard Dean and said he was the one the Repukes were afraid of. Dunno if it was true then but I think the Repukes are running pretty scared now.

http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby.24202078

[Deep13]

3. No member of Congress has been elected since 1960.

Only incumbents, VPs and governors have been elected. Most of those reelected presidents were former governors.

The Washington insiders and the consultants that have mismanaged our national campaigns since 1976. Clinton used his own people and did not rely heavily on the party.

[yebrent]

7. Yet all we hear about in the media is Kerry, Edwards and Hillary, oh my.

:crazy: :wtf: :puke:

[Deep13]

12. Isn't Hillary Clinton our '08 nominee?

I thought the corporate media has already selected her.

[dmartin29]

34. This can't be said enough

We need to repeat over and over. We don't elect sitting Senators for President (with rare exception). Yes we need to keep looking at Dean and Clark and also begin talking about and identifying more "local", state, and "regional" progressives to give us some depth of choices and help them get some broader exposure. Maybe we also need to look at "Hollywood" (can't believe I said that). But in the mean time Dean and Clark do speak for me.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

4. Amen, baby n/t

[RetroLounge]

5. Amen!

Loved Dean, love Clark also.

They are the future...

RL

[Deep13]

8. In the summer of 2003 ...

... I saw Clark on Meet the Press and thought, this guy ought to be the freakin' president, not the asshole he have! Then he mentioned he was thinking of running. I signed up for his mailing list and got a bumper sticker. All the D office holders and activists in this semi-rural Ohio county had a meeting in December with the intention of promoting Clark's candidacy. The concensus was that Clark was the only candidate that could really challenge Dubya on national security which we perceived as the dominant campaign issue. My wife donated $500.

We thought the flap about Michael Moore's comments were grossly mishandled. Clark and the Ds should have said something like, well what the hell are we supposed to think when he won't release his records and in fact has not done a day's work in his life?!

When it became clear that it was a contest between Edwards and Kerry in the days leading to super Tuesday, we all got together again for Kerry. Again, we perceived his war hero background would gain traction, though we had our reservations. My wife and I went to a $1000 per person fundraiser.

Well, you know the rest. The confrontation-phobic consultants that the Ds rely one ran the same goddamn campaign for JK that they ran for True President Gore. The only thing that kept the Rs from having another 1984 or '72 was the fact that Dumbass was their candidate. This has got to stop. No more candidates from New England, no more ivory tower consultants who have no idea what Joe Baggahdonuts wants.

[yebrent]

17. I agree wholeheartedly.

I first saw Wes as a commentator on CNN during the initial stages of Bush's War. Even though he was on to only provide commentary, his feelings that we should never of invaded clearly came through (which I understand upset CNN). I then saw him during the summer of 2003 on political talk shows and heard about the draft Clark movement. I signed up and donated immediately.

I think the main problem with the Kerry and Gore campaigns is that they played not to lose more than they played to win. This was especially true in 2004, where many Bush haters thought anyone but Bush would be enough. Turns out they were sorely mistaken. We MUST play to win, or else quit the game, IMO.

[Deep13]

19. Right. U.S. Grant used to tell his soldiers...

... to stop worrying about what R.E. Lee was going to do to them and think about what they were going to do to him. We should have been on the attack constantly. Instead we were running as though we were the failed incumbents.

[KittyWampus]

9. They're Both Hard Workers That's For Sure

[Avalux]

10. You nailed it -

I was/am a Clark supporter and what's happening to you is happening to me too. I love them both for being outspoken, truthful and truly concerned for this country and it's people. :loveya:

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. I've loved both for quite a while

For almost more reasons than I can list, but mostly because both men are not afraid to speak their mind, both are tenacious fighters, both understand and respect the importance of local and grass roots activists, neither is a creature of the beltway, both are on a mission to wake up America to the serious threat of consolidation of power by an incompetent and corrupt oligarchy that is giving away our future to their friends now.

[yebrent]

13. Well Said!!!!

[Deep13]

14. How's this?

Leave Dean where he is and where he can be his most partisan. For the '08 ticket, how about Clark/Sebelius?

[MoonRiver]

15. A General and a Doctor

Great combo to take back our democracy! :loveya: Clark and Dean!!

[yebrent]

20. It's nice to have Democratic Leaders that aren't lawyers.

No offense to lawyers. It is just that politics is swarming with them.

[NightOwwl]

16. You read my mind....

see my post from another thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1852483&mesg_id=1852526

[yebrent]

18. Although Clark/Dean ticket would be high on my list...

I'm not sure I'm convinced of it yet, despite everything I wrote in this thread. I'd like to see what governors step up to the plate. Outside the beltway is the only criteria I have for 2008, and I'd like to see what shakes out during the next year or two.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[phylla]

22. Wes Clark/Mark Warner best ticket combo to date.

[yebrent]

25. I don't know much about Warner yet.

I look forward to hearing more from him as we get closer to 2008. Is he supportive of Dean?

[phylla]

26. Don't know

Mark was a supporter of Kerry last time round...but he has been distancing himself from Kerry lately.

Mark is running for the top job himself...have no doubts about it...most regular peeps want him to run against-gross-gross-gross-Geo. Allen.

But Mark's forte is as an executive. He gets things done. And in a very Repug state, that is saying a whole lot.

[Guaranteed]

23. Dean and Clark were my two top choices.

I think they draw from the same types of supporters, more or less. They're both leaders.

[Rainscents]

24. Tom Hartmann said this morning... I am NOT democrat, however,

he liked what Dean had to say about repblicans... "TRUTH" so, he donated money to DNC for the last Friday first time! I thought this was soooooooooo coooool!!!

[AX10]

28. Clark is Dean are the new hope of the party.

The DLC is dead.

[Clarkie1]

29. You hit the nail on the head!

Yep, they are both outspoken, unafraid to attack BushCo., and outside the beltway establishment. They are invigorating the party with a new, stronger Democratic message that has some "starch!"

Go Dean!

Go Clark!

[Cha]

30. Yeah, I've always like Dean but

ever since the Dem Convention..I've liked Clark, too. And, it just keeps getting better.

I've said this before but I know how Michael Moore felt when Clark stuck up for him ..after the Academy Award speech(I think).

[CarolNYC]

31. knowing how Michael Moore felt

Aw, zidzi, that's such a nice sentiment.

I do love these two guys and I think Clarkies and Deaniacs working together can do wonders. I worked with a Deaniac with redefeatbush....She was a dynamo!

[Cha]

33. To Clark and Dean!

:patriot: :toast: :patriot:

Little early but what the heck!

[Skidmore]

32. Clark knows a fighter when he sees one

and he, himself, does not shrink from confrontation. These are our leaders of the future.