What is the DLC?

[cestpaspossible]

[xxqqqzme]

1. The DLC is PNAC

only w/ left language.

[cestpaspossible]

2. Emotionally satisfying to say - but is it true?

But true or false, your answer doesn't lend any insight into your answer on the poll question:

The DLC is:

The shadowy power brokers who control the Democratic party

OR

A lobbying/interest group that promotes a centrist agenda





which is it?

[aaronnyc]

3. Wrong

Given your logic, can I conclude since: DLC=PNAC and PNAC=Nazism, then.... Bill Clinton=Adolf Hitler

Why do people here like Bill Clinton but despise the DLC? You know, Clinton was actually one of the originators of the DLC, and their former chairman.

Basically, the DLC wants the Democrats to avoid divisive social issues, to support a strong military, and to focus its economic policies primarily on aiding the middle class. While I don't support a lot of their ideas, they are far from being evil entity which many on DU portray them as.

[wyldwolf]

4. several classifications of DLC haters

1. As you pointed out, those who loathe the DLC but love Bill Clinton (and John Kerry and John Edwards and Howard Dean, etc.) These types got their disdain for the DLC from other DUers who didn't know much to begin with, never realizing their favorite Dems are/were DLC. In fact, they will argue that Clinton/Kerry/Edwards, etc. aren't really DLC or aren't really DLC-like just so they can reconcile their admiration for the mentioned politicians while holding on to their disdain for the DLC.

2. Those who feel that the DLC has changed since the time of Clinton. They often pull stories out of their butts about how Al Gore and Bill Clinton had "disagreements" with the DLC over moving the party further towards the center and left the DLC because of it.

3. Those who really really hate the DLC over political ideology and/or because the DLC takes in corporate money. The more honest of these realize that MOST Democrats (even some of the liberal heroes) take in corporate money, too, and so they will banish those into DINO land as well.

Interesting that many in the third category voted for Ralph Nader (and thus can be classified as DINOs themselves)

I might also add that of Democrats today, the DLC most resembles the Democratic party of the pre-McGovern era. Strong on national defense, more moderate on social issues (they are more liberal on some social issues, though.), and economically conservative.

[dameocrat]

9. Where was the term Nazi used?

The PNAC are militarist and authoritarian and the dlc is highly linked with them, and the neocons but nobody said Nazi. They don't actually take positions that differentiate them from neocons in any way they just use progressive language to justify it.

[Hippo_Tron]

6. Was there an Iraq War under Bill Clinton?

Did Dick Cheney, Richard Perle, Don Rumsfled, and Paul Wolfowitz have jobs in the Clinton administration? No. I'm not a big fan of the DLC but you're comparing Chamberlain to Hitler.

[leftofthedial]

5. the wing of Dem leadership controlled by corporate lobbyists

[Shopaholic]

7. Where's the option for "Pieces of Shit"????

:shrug:

[dameocrat]

8. Where is the option for republican moles?

?

[ulysses]

10. somewhere between your two options. n/t

[nickshepDEM]

11. Where's the option for... "Freedom Fighters"? eom

[PassingFair]

12. Meet founding father Will Marshall

Will Marshall helped found the DLC.
Edited on Fri May-06-05 09:16 PM by Zorra



snip----
"Although Marshall calls himself a "centrist," he has associated himself with neoconservative organizations and their radical foreign policy agendas. At the onset of the Iraq invasion, Marshall signed statements issued by the Project for the New American Century calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein, advocating that NATO help "secure and destroy all of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction," and arguing that the invasion "can contribute decisively to the democratization of the Middle East." (7)

Marshall's credentials as a liberal hawk have been well established by his affinity for other PNAC-associated groups, including the U.S. Committee on NATO and the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. Marshall served on the board of directors of the U.S. Committee on NATO alongside such leading neocon figures as Robert Kagan, Richard Perle, Randy Scheunemann, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Peter Rodman, Jeffrey Gedmin, Gary Schmitt, and the committee's founder and president Bruce Jackson of PNAC. (8) At the request of the Bush administration, PNAC's Bruce Jackson also formed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which, with DLC chairman Joseph Lieberman serving as co-chair together with John McCain, aimed to build bipartisan support for the liberation, occupation, and democratization of Iraq. Marshall, together with Robert Kerrey (who coauthored Progressive Internationalism), represented the liberal hawk wing of the Democratic Party on the committee's neocon-dominated advisory board. (9) Other advisers included James Woolsey, Elliot Cohen, Newt Gingrich, William Kristol, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Joshua Muravchik, Chris Williams, and Richard Perle.

On February 25, 2003, Marshall joined an array of neoconservatives marshaled by the Social Democrats/USA-a wellspring of neoconservative strategy-to sign a letter to President Bush calling for the invasion of Iraq. Marshall and others asked the president to "act alone if that proves necessary" and then, as a follow-up to a military-induced regime change in Iraq, to implement a democratization plan. The SD/USA letter urged the president to commit his administration to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning." Others signing the SD/USA letter included Hillel Fradkin, Rachelle Horowitz, Bruce Jackson, Penn Kemble, Robert Kagan, James Woolsey, Nina Shea, Michael Novak, Clifford May, and Ben Wattenberg. (10) (11)

It has always seemed to me that the DLC was established and financed (during the Reagan era) by RW corporations to neutralize the Democratic Party."

:hi:

Sorry Zorra, but I don't know how to copy the post direct.

To my mind, the DLC can be loosely defined as the corporate sponsored, pro-Iraeli henchmen of the democratic party. They dispense the spoils, and some dem pols have to go along to get along.
:freak:

[Eloriel]

13. Excellent post

Here's a link for that quote: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/marshall/marshall.php

Here are a few more links for people who may want more info (and an apt quote to get the ball rolling):

DLC
The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves. -- Lenin

Democrats for Wolfowitz
(see Tinoire's post #20 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1687818&mesg_id=1688529 )
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1687818&mesg_id=1687818&page=

LINKS - What every DUer and every Dem needs to know about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4443&forum=DCForumID22&archive=

Let's be REALLY honest about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23262&forum=DCForumID60&archive=


Outing the "New Democrats" -- Pukes in Progressive Clothing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1435&forum=DCForumID34

Everyone who is a fan of the DLC, needs to read this post,
(Devils Advocate NZ's post is included)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=11323&forum=DCForumID60#114

Kerry, the New Democrats, and American Military Hegemony
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=326015#326061

New Dems formed to get corporate donors, be free from party base ideology
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1346735&mesg_id=1346735&page=

Ask the questions NOW of the DLC and Clinton. Corporate funding.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1372759#1373432

New Dems formed to get corporate donors, be free from party base ideology.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1346735&mesg_id=1346735

DLC candidates lost us a dozen Southern Senate seats in just 2 years.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1725190

(OMG! The PNAC/DLC Connection!)No More Moore: DLC Joins the Witch-Hunt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2784312
Link: http://nypress.com/17/48/news&columns/taibbi.cfm

"We've got to repudiate, you know, the most strident and insulting anti-American voices out there sometimes on our party's left... We can't have our party identified by Michael Moore and Hollywood as our cultural values."
— Al From, CEO, Democratic Leadership Council

"You know, let's let Hollywood and the Cannes Film Festival fawn all over Michael Moore. We ought to make it pretty clear that he sure doesn't speak for us when it comes to standing up for our country."
— Will Marshall, President of the Progressive Policy Institute, the think-tank of the DLC

>snip<

In addition to his duties as the president of the PPI, Marshall kept himself busy in the last few years. Among other things, he served on the board of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, an organization co-chaired by Joe Lieberman and John McCain whose aim was to build bipartisan support for the invasion of Iraq.

Marshall also signed, at the outset of the war, a letter issued by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) expressing support for the invasion. Marshall signed a similar letter sent to President Bush put out by the conservative Social Democrats/USA group on Feb. 25, 2003, just before the invasion. The SD/USA letter urged Bush to commit to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning."

One of just a handful of Marshall's co-signatories on that letter was Bruce Jackson, who also happens to be the head of the PNAC (whose letter Marshall also signed) and the founder of the aforementioned Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. Jackson is not only a neo-con of high rank and one of the chief pom-pom wavers for the war effort. He was also a vice president in the weapons division of Lockheed-Martin between 1993 and 2002—meaning that he was one of the implied targets of Bowling for Columbine, which came out in Jackson's last year with the company.

Clearly, Marshall was thinking about the good of the Democratic Party, and not the integrity of his grimy little network of missile-humping cronies, when he and Al From made the curious—and curiously conspicuous—decision to denounce Moore, Hollywood and France at the DLC meeting in early November.


RIGHT WEB: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/ppi.php

Overview of DLC
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/marshall/marshall.php

PPI
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/ppi.php


===================================================
WILL MARSHALL: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/marshall/marshall.php
Although Marshall calls himself a "centrist," he has associated himself with neoconservative organizations and their radical foreign policy agendas. At the onset of the Iraq invasion, Marshall signed statements issued by the Project for the New American Century calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein, advocating that NATO help "secure and destroy all of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction," and arguing that the invasion "can contribute decisively to the democratization of the Middle East." (7)

Marshall's credentials as a liberal hawk have been well established by his affinity for other PNAC-associated groups, including the U.S. Committee on NATO and the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. Marshall served on the board of directors of the U.S. Committee on NATO alongside such leading neocon figures as Robert Kagan, Richard Perle, Randy Scheunemann, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Peter Rodman, Jeffrey Gedmin, Gary Schmitt, and the committee's founder and president Bruce Jackson of PNAC. (8) At the request of the Bush administration, PNAC's Bruce Jackson also formed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which, with DLC chairman Joseph Lieberman serving as co-chair together with John McCain, aimed to build bipartisan support for the liberation, occupation, and democratization of Iraq. Marshall, together with Robert Kerrey (who coauthored Progressive Internationalism), represented the liberal hawk wing of the Democratic Party on the committee's neocon-dominated advisory board. (9) Other advisers included James Woolsey, Elliot Cohen, Newt Gingrich, William Kristol, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Joshua Muravchik, Chris Williams, and Richard Perle.

On February 25, 2003, Marshall joined an array of neoconservatives marshaled by the Social Democrats/USA-a wellspring of neoconservative strategy-to sign a letter to President Bush calling for the invasion of Iraq. Marshall and others asked the president to "act alone if that proves necessary" and then, as a follow-up to a military-induced regime change in Iraq, to implement a democratization plan. The SD/USA letter urged the president to commit his administration to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning." Others signing the SD/USA letter included Hillel Fradkin, Rachelle Horowitz, Bruce Jackson, Penn Kemble, Robert Kagan, James Woolsey, Nina Shea, Michael Novak, Clifford May, and Ben Wattenberg. (10) (11)

[bvar22]

21. Love your compilation, Eloriel.

Thanks.

[Tinoire]

31. Terrific compilation!

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/

That's the link I was thinking about a few weeks ago when we were discussing certain dangers our country and party are currently facing :)

You may not post as prolifically these days but by golly when you do- Wham, watch out!!!

I hope we see you around a LOT. :hi:

[Selatius]

25. Nice post. Really shows where the DLC came from.

[cestpaspossible]

26. Yet totally avoids the subject

of what the DLC is.


Are they secretly steering the Democratic party in the wrong direction, or are they just trying to steer the Democratic party in the wrong direction?

[Selatius]

29. Regardless of where the DLC stands, I know were I stand

I stand with the working men and women. I'm fully aware that many Democratic congressmen take some amount of money from corporations, and to be a pragmatist, I'd have to be okay with some amount of it, but if it's to the point where that candidate is subsidized by a significant amount of corporate/big business contributions, say, 40% or more, I'd have to admit I'd be a little suspicious of that kind of buying power having some kind of effect on the office-holder, which could be to the detriment of the interests of the working people.

I just don't want anymore people in power who are Democrats who would vote for something such as that stupid bankruptcy reform bill that's a total rape job as far as looking out for the interests of ordinary people. In my mind, that's not a Democrat, a friend of the working man, that's a corporatist at worst, a conflicted centrist at best.

[eridani]

14. You left out 'promotes a corporatist agenda' n/t

[cestpaspossible]

16. I don't see a distinction between a 'centrist' agenda

and a 'corporatist' one.... could you explain it to me?

[eridani]

18. I see centrists as people willing to compromise with social conservatives

And corporatists as those who want to make the world safe for 20 cents an hour labor, at American military gunpoint if necessary.

[cestpaspossible]

20. Interesting viewpoint that I don't share.

I would call a corporatist someone who puts the interests of corporations ahead of people.

[eridani]

22. Isn't that implicit in what I said? n/t

[cestpaspossible]

23. I don't think so, no.

I'm not good, though, when it comes to imagining what people meant to imply, I'm much better at interpreting their actual words.

PS, it feels like one of those web conversations where we don't really disagree that much, and we are just sparring, looking for an opening to flame... let's skip it, ok?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. You left out the...

"Cancer on the Democratic Party" option.

That's where my vote would be.

[Q]

17. Great Push Poll...

...and neither answer reflects the whole truth.

[cestpaspossible]

19. Since you've indicated that you are in possession of 'the whole truth'

why don't you share it with us?

[mistertrickster]

24. Democratic LOSERS Committee . . . nt

[KingOfLostSouls]

27. Can I Vote For "Party Of Treason?

[ProudDad]

28. A tool of the world capitalist conspiracy

to subjugate the peoples of the world to the will of the oligarchs...

[Tinoire]

30. Vichy Collaborators n/t

[LuPeRcALiO]

32. one reason for the corporate love fest

is that a lot of Dems invest in them through their pension plans. All those state employee, teacher, and union pension plans invest a good part of their reserves into stocks and mutual funds.

So, because Dems own stock in corporations, its more important than it used to be to suck up to them.

Anyway that's one theory, I forget whose.

[cestpaspossible]

33. It's not really in dispute on DU that the DLC is pro-corporate

and on the wrong side of most issues.

But what this poll illustrates is that there is a dispute - fairly evenly divided - between folks who won't take off the tinfoil hat long enough for some facts to soak into their brains, and folks who see the DLC for what it is, a lobbying and interest group with no mechanism of control over the Democratic party.