Folks - do not take the behavior of Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.

[DancingBear]

as some type of victory for our side.

Please remember - these guys are WIRED into Repub Central. They get their talking points for the day directly from 1600.

That said, if they are "imploding" it is because they have been TOLD to implode. The strategy, rightly or wrongly, is to paint moderation with a liberal brush. The bastards are ruthless, and they are now going after those who didn't toe the line. They are mobilizing the base, and while the question as to whether or not the base is shrinking is open to debate (well, not really - it is) this is the strategy. Bring forth the born again's who do not yet vote, bring out the dis-enfranchised and make them believe somehow that their problems are NOT caused by Bush, etc.

As for Bush - he stands "above the fray", while the henchmen pummel those who do not walk all the time in lockstep.

They've been using this strategy forever - please don't fall for it.

[SmokingJacket]

1. I think you're right.

Why are they freaking out when they got everything they wanted, except for a rule change?

Being full of righteous indignation makes it look like something crazy happened... when nothing happened except the rules stayed the same.

[tridim]

7. They wanted to get rid of the filibuster

and they failed AS THE MAJORITY PARTY. It was a gigantic blow to BushCo's and PNAC's plans, and not just "a rule change".

[Fone Book]

2. i dont understand...

How are they using whining to their advantage?

[Fridays Child]

4. It plugs right in to the right wing's entitlement mentality.

"Entitlement mentality" used to refer to welfare recipients but, now, it describes the Republican party. They believe wholeheartedly in the "them what has gets" doctrine and, when they don't "gets" what they want, they howl like stuck pigs. Hannity, Limbaugh, et al., are simply leading the chorus. That's their job.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

13. Well, let's look at it this way

The wingnuts get their judicial nominations and probably them some, because we have agreed to more carefully choose our battles. Then suddenly a supreme court nomination name comes and it is truly unacceptable. The dems go for the block. And NOW...all the Rush's and Hannity's out there can scream that "THEY are getting their way again, just like last time." But of course if the loud mouths hadn't made a big fuss over this one, then it wouldn't look as though it were really a loss for them.
Am I close?

[NewInNewJ.]

3. I totally agree.

You are one smart person.

[Writer]

5. Sometimes the color blue...

is just the color blue.

[DancingBear]

6. You're right

Just not this time. :)

[Writer]

8. Why?

[DancingBear]

16. We need to look at the Republican noise machine as an entity

First off, remember that Limbaugh was an adviser to B/C '04. Secondly, remember that these folks do NOTHING off the cuff - everything is planned out, rehearsed, focus-grouped, etc. to have the maximum impact on whatever particular segment of the population they want to influence at any given time.

With these parameters in mind, why would you think that these 'implosions" are nothing more than scripted responses to make the sheeple believe that yet another grievous indignity has been foisted on both George Bush and the American people?

It is designed for one reason and one reason only - to make the sheeple twice as determined to get rid of those obstructionist Democrats (and moderate Republicans, who now must be painted in liberal terms to make it work).

P.S. There's a "Christian persecution" angle that has yet to be played out - but it's coming, don't you worry.

[Writer]

21. Producing a daily radio show is difficult...

and I don't see how the producer, or Limbaugh himself, would have the time to script such talking points nor plan the guests or segment topics. Typically it's planned well, well in advance (for instance, fo major guests) or through Limbaugh's spontaneous dialogue. There would have to have been some grand planning meeting weeks before, and Republicans would have had to have known the outcome of the filibuster standoff to set-up all of this. It doesn't seem logical to me.

[dbonds]

22. This doesn't follow with past tatics.

They demand republican unity. They would never neuter Frist like this and cause a chasm in their own party. To have any big plan that had this a center piece would be outlandish. No one can control a split like that. What is more likely is they are really pissed. A few of their own broke ranks and made a deal that really blew their plans. It was NEVER about these nominees. These nominees were put in for the sole purpose of having Frist get rid of the filibuster so later they can put some far right person on the supreme court. This deal stopped that plan.

[Beetwasher]

23. Right. If they Actually THOUGHT About The Proper Reaction and Disseminated

Talking points, I would suspect the would all declare VICTORY in tandem! The smart strategy for the Repubs would be for all of them to say "WE WON!!! We got our up or down votes, just like we wanted!!!" And they would all do it in unison.

[DancingBear]

25. A very well reasoned response

which I must say has given me pause.

However, I can't help but believe that in some way, in some form, they will make Frist a martyr in this, and elevate his status among the base.

I also do not discount the fact that Bush et al. realize that their plans for America can not be undertaken if a moderate wing of the Republican party continues to exist. Much as I hate to say it, these folks are brilliant in crafting their agenda, and it would not surprise me in the least if the long-term goal of theocracy needed a short-term derailment in order to effectively kill the opposition within their own party.

Am I saying the tactic will work? I don't think it will - it is far too over-reaching as presently constituted. Will they try it? I think so.

I suggest we all watch the antics of right wing radio very carefully over these next several weeks. I am willing to bet a co-ordinated efforts to paint the moderates as not "real" Republicans will be trotted out, and all the blowhards will sign up, as always.

[tishaLA]

29. Alternatively, they might have done it to destroy Frist

Just a few weeks ago, Pat Robertson was on This Week with George Stephanopolous and he made it clear that he didn't see Frist as Presidential material, although he thought McCain was much worse. This makes him prophetic. It's a minor loss for the party--they don't get two judges they wanted--while it's a big gain for the Christian right's ability to get a candidate they prefer on 08.

I think one of the ways this shakes out is that it gives George Allen more power from the party going into 08--he was one of the folks the Fundies liked--and that it wholly undoes Frist.

[DancingBear]

32. This is why upcoming right-wing radio will be important

(boy, did that ever leave a sour taste in my mouth)

The blowhards will dictate the strategy. If Frist hits the talk shows, he's their guy. If not, and Rush and the boys begin to question his, er, leadership - bye bye Billy.

You may very well be correct. Whatever course they plot will come directly from the top - of this we can be sure.

Unless, of course, we make the quantum leap that these blowhards can actually think for themselves.

(hee-hee-hee - DancingBear made a funny)

[johnnyrocket]

51. Oh come on! Frist will never be president...before...

or after any Senate actions, he's too slimy, too creepy, too 'insider'. Frist is NOT a serious contender, and never was.

[dbonds]

9. They never would endanger their sense of unity to make us feel good.

This is causing a serious rift for them. Rush doesn't worry about what we think, he worries about keeping the repukes all thinking the same. They would not do this to make us feel better - what exactly would us feeling better gain them. They want to slam dunk us.

[KittyWampus]

10. Ludicrous Assertion.

[DancingBear]

17. In-depth response

Care to elaborate?

[bunkerbuster1]

11. They do not get their talking points from 1600.

More like 1850 or thereabouts.

But otherwise, like you say; let's not take these ijiots at their word. They feign outrage when needed, and today it was needed.

[xxqqqzme]

24. I'm thinkin' 1600

is the address.

[bunkerbuster1]

38. heh. I used to live in DC

Not on Pennsylvania Avenue, though.

[Beetwasher]

12. Maybe, But What Does That Gain Them?

It whips their base into a frothing madness and unleashes them on the moderates in their own party. It's self destructive. It's bad for them. So, good. If the instructions from Rove are "Go frothing nuts over members of our own party" (and that's essentially what you're saying) then Dems win.

[bicentennial_baby]

14. Damn right

If there's one thing the pukes are coordinated on, it's message. Which is why we're hearing the same hysterical moaning from all of those on the radical right. This shit's coming straight from the top...don't fall for it people! The only reason you're also hearing it from the freeps and the dittoheads is b/c they're too stupid to figure out that they're actually better off, b/c the dems will now be too cowed to utilize the filibuster. morans...

[Zynx]

15. Sorry, doesn't make any sense.

What good does it do the Republicans to piss off and alienate their base?

[catzies]

18. Well, look at it this way: where else are they gonna go? Not to the Dems

If their base is pissed off and alienated, it's temporary.

They'll be unified again as soon as we're in their sights about something else.

Hating us defines them.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Feeds the persecution complex

The Right has to feel like they are the victims...simple as that.

[DancingBear]

20. Republican Rule #1 (and 2, and 3, and 4)

They ALWAYS need something to rail against.

It is how they operate - we should all know that by now.

Gays, guns, God - they always have to be made to believe that if they don't vote Republican something bad will happen to them.

This strategy does not alienate their base - far from it. It energizes them.

Personally, I think it is a dumb strategy, but since I (and most everyone here) have gone collectively broke underestimating said strategy I am leery when I hear ALL the right-wind blowhards singing the same hymn.

[xxqqqzme]

26. after reading the thread

'n the posts so far, the only chess piece that, I think, moved yesterday was mccain.

[Zen Democrat]

27. They are imploding over John McCain, who they've hated for years.

Don't think for a second that they are happy about the McCain Compromise. They've been praying for the Nuclear Trigger to be pulled. They were upset it wasn't done last week. They've been worried about a potential "sell-out" compromise. They lost this round.

[aaronnyc]

28. Hannity and Rush are more interested in ratings than in politics

There is no single Right Wing entity with a collective consciousness. They are a bunch of individuals, who are generally all out for their own self-interest.

Rush and Hannity are radio talk show hosts, who make millions of dollars by getting excellent ratings. They are entertainers (whose form of "entertainment" happens to be politics), and like all entertainers, their number 1 goal is to get ratings and money. The vast majority of their listeners are outraged by this compromise; if Sean and Rush were to go on the air and come out in support of Chafee and McCain, and against the conservatives who make up the vast majority of their listeners, their ratings would drop immediately. They are not going to hurt their own ratings for the GOP cause.

[Al-CIAda]

30. You are 100% correct. n/t

[Rowdyboy]

31. I've listened to Limbaugh long enough to know better....He always spins

things as a win and talks about how scared and demoralized Dems are. He's just a freaking cheerleader. Well he was singing a very different tune. He's upset and he's mad and I'm going to enjoy it.

[DancingBear]

33. You are a far far better man than I for listening

Do you believe him?

Or is he "spinning" anger to make a point? I don't think there is a chance in hell that he would risk the gravy train he lives on by going off message.

I go with the spin option, but I must confess I haven't listened to a word of his in months, so I'll defer to someone who has.

[Rowdyboy]

37. I did it to laugh at him during the Clinton years.....

Haven't caught it much since the Bush election (he's much more fun when he's angry) but I had to check in today.

He's always hated McCain, and this really set him off. I honestly think he's pissed.

[mwb970]

50. I'm curious about what Limbaugh is saying.

But it is so hard to listen to his show, with its non-stop sputtering outrage and inchoate anger. I usually switch stations within a minute, which isn't enough time to home in on what (if anything) he is actually saying.

Just listening to him raises my heart rate and blood pressure. As I change the station, I always think "What kind of person would voluntarily listen to such vile whining for THREE HOURS A DAY?" Wow.

[Canuckistanian]

34. 1600? The address or the year?

Building that bridge to the 17th century...

[Ksec]

35. paint moderation with a liberal brush.

You nailed it.

Its exactly what theyre doin. Good thinking. We need good thinkers.

They make it so terrible for the moderates it pretty much destroys anyone who may be leaning moderate.

[onenote]

36. I doubt that's the plan, but more power to them if it is

Unleashing the fundies on the moderate repugs doesn't bother me. Let them go off the deep end and attack their own. The deep pocket corporate interests that support the repugs are getting nervous about the fundies and maybe they'll keep their cash in their pockets or give it to some Democrats instead of supporting RW nutjobs.

onenote

[DancingBear]

41. Like Diebold? Home Depot? Marriot?

Check the history on some of these CEO's.

Many of them lean VERY far to the Christian Right.

The Diebold/Sequoia/ES&S trioka is scary in its fundamentalism, and I think the Home Depot founder (Arthur Blank?) leans heavily that way as well. Then of course there are all the nut jobs at Coors...

There is plenty of money that will come the GOP way - the fat cats know Bush is the boy that will line their pockets, even if they don't talk in tongues. :)

[Dulcinea]

44. Arthur Blank is Jewish.

Not a fundie.

[Nikki Stone 1]

39. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT--Moderate Republicans are targets

Or, as you might call them, real Republicans.

There is another talk radio connection. KFI in my hometown of Los Angeles, is a Clear Channel station. And in the past year or so, they have run a recurring campaign called "John and Ken's Political Human Sacrifice" in which moderate Republicans are targeted. They are targeted for reasons like "immigration reform", but really they are being targeted for being moderate.

Keep in mind, KFI is a Clear Channel station and is the top rated talk station in LA, Orange County, and even San Diego. Clear Channel was a cheerleader for the Iraq war and has a consistent record of neocon support. Currently KFI has targeted Republican David Dreier:

http://www.johnandkenshow.com/index.php?s=political+human+sacrifice

(Actually, if you read through this entire page, you can see how "Political Human Sacrifice" ties into moderate Republicans AND the REAL ID bill.)

KFI Listeners are now carrying the torch:

http://www.dojak.net/


It is NOT a good thing that Right Wing Radio is going after moderates. It just insures that traditional Republicans and reasonable GOP candidates will be pommeled by extremists so extreme that compromise may not even be a possibility.

This is why I recommended this thread for the GREATEST page.

[Dr Fate]

40. DING DING! We have a winner! They say the OPPOSITE of what they mean

Why have some of us not realized that yet???

[AlGore-08.com]

42. Exactly - - exactly!

The right are playing the outrage card for the reason described. They want to win the 2006 elections big so they have an even more wing nuts in both Houses, so they can get even more of their agenda rammed through, and so that they can kneecap anybody who has the gall to think he can be the GOP nominee without their blessing.

McCain thinks he won this round, but they will move heaven and earth to take him down in the primary. And personally, I hope they succeed. The last thing this country needs is another "compassionate conservative" who "appeals to the mainstream, unlike Democrats", just like Smirk did.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

43. I agree with writer - the color blue is just the color blue this time.

eom

[dajoki]

45. the disciples

i always felt that way. limbaugh, hannity, coulter and too many others to name, get their memo's and go out and spread the word. i always called them the disciples.

[Gloria]

46. Absolutely, I said it last night, tonight and I'll say it again...it seems

like a setup to me....

[Geek_Girl]

47. They're trying to get some political play

Getting their base all fired up to go after the moderate Dems and maybe even the moderate Repugs.

But I can't see how this is a win for the RW GOP.

[Rhiannon12866]

48. Good point. And these are scary times, for us. We need to stick together.

And "they" are saying that if Bush* wants to influence Congress, be actually has to directly address it, something that he has, notoriously, been reluctant to do, just as he has avoided the press. This guy has a real problem addressing anybody. Why isn't the media and the American people picking up on that?:shrug:

[truthisfreedom]

49. well, you know, we're winning this week. and winning pretty big. so it's

okay for us to celebrate a little.

whatever frigging games the thugs continue to play, we're ready for them. we have achieved something they never expected. we have the country by many points (recent polls) and we have split the thugs.

[sendero]

52. I agree completely..

.... when all the echo-chamber talking-heads start saying the same thing, it isn't because they all think alike, it's because they've been told what to say.

Exactly what their strategy is I couldn't say, but these fuckers are rarely off message, that much you can count on.