I'm glad there are still people who are willing to take a

[Skidmore]

stand. I don't think this compromise is such a terrible thing for this country. It is good start for a nation that has forgotten how to compromise on important issues, and it was just that--a compromise. Neither side got what their leadership wanted. Saving the checks and balances in this government is hugely important. The compromise itself meant that those who made it were willing to rise above the trees and see the forest. I imagine that some time in the future this fight will be fought again. I hope then a group will stand above the fray and see that the preservation of the nation is more important.

[mzmolly]

1. Remember, were talkin "DU" here

;)

[Skidmore]

3. I know. I have my asbestos suit on.

I fully expect to be flamed or napalmed. And I'm pretty progressively liberal in most of my views. Sometimes a people needs to heal. This nation has been raw and bleeding for several years now. We need to heal.

[CWebster]

11. We heal by laying down and letting them stomp all over us

as a compromise?

Capitulation of your progressive liberalism is the path to healing? All over this site was cheering for George Galloway for his courageous stand in confronting the abuse of power and the pack of lies that are left unaddressed by our centrist opposition party and media. You dis him and the stand he took allowing the truth to get a hearing. That is the only true healing--the truth and the pursuit of the truth--not a compromise with the pack of lies that harm this country.

[CWebster]

2. What's left to compromise on?

That is the point.

[Skidmore]

5. As a people, it is in our interest to find common ground or

this nation will be torn apart. Instead of dealing with the ideologues, it is time for a conversation among the common men and women of the nation. It is time for us to not look at party, but the larger picture. We need to have a populist movement--a revival of the combined labor, civil rights, and women's movements. Not as they exist in their current iterations because they have become brands. We need to go back to the basics--fair wages and workplace rules, equality for all, and justice for all.

[CWebster]

12. Please

you are willing to compromise on all those issues and interests when you accept capitulation as compromise.

How fucking bad does it have to get?

[Skidmore]

15. Yes how bad does it get before we start

talking to others. I don't think it should be left to just the leadership to define positions. We need to be forging common ground with the guy across the driveway, in the next desk or on the assembly line, by us on the church pew or in the coffee shop. At some point, we need to remember how to see the humanity in others and to appeal to it. I think we are in the right--just sometimes you need to use the carrot instead of the stick.

[ClintonTyree]

17. So you're saying we should appeal to....

bush's and his cabal's sense of humanity and fair play? And then we should take them at their word that they'll cooperate? OK......... :eyes:

[Skidmore]

21. Did you really read my post before you

lashed out? I wasn't talking about * and his cabal and their sense of anything. I'm talking about you and me and the guy next door. It needs to start with us--forget the politicos and their flunkies. It needs to start on the street.

[CWebster]

19. How do you have a rational debate with bullies?

It is like Chamberlain thinking he could have a civil, reasoned debate with Hitler.

You do not make a connection with others by reaffirming lies or policies that are not in your neighbor's interests. Centrists triangulate on the Right's thunder and openly obstruct or deny an alternative appeal from being aired by framing it as fringe or extreme.

[Skidmore]

22. Think smaller.

Like over a cup of coffee and a danish. Or a rum and coke.

[GeorgeGist]

28. It seems to me that the most 'common ground' we have...

is that most of our national politicians are hypocrits. Some are Red and some are Blue. Drinking their Kool-Aid (Red,Blue or Purple) isn't a compromise; it's slow suicide.

[Skidmore]

29. Then why perpetuate the Red/Blue

divide on the streets? The whole idea that progressives will also refuse to look for the good in their neighbors and fellow citizens and try to tap that good makes us no better than extreme also. Forget the leaders and let them play their games. Go to the man on the street. Go to your neighbor. Talk to your coworkers. Search among the roots.

[CWebster]

30. You are shifting your argument to deflect the issue

Compromising on issues that have a negative impact on the "common" man is not the way to build bridges. The compromise means accepting the view and the choice of the Right- which is in conflict with the best interests of the "common" man in favor of corporate concerns, for example. That leaves you without a foot to stand on in advancing your own argument.

[Skidmore]

31. Finding common ground is the goal

of compromise--it takes both sides. Why assume that compromise means only give? Common ground can be gained in educating people on how bad economic policy affects them. That common ground is that most people want to be able to take care of their families and would like to see good education be made available. Most people would like access to health care. Let your neighbor know that $300 in a token tax return does not cover the corresponding costs to them in increases in property and other taxes. Help them to understand what is happening to the industrial and service base in this country and how the corporations are stealing their jobs and money. Discussing changes in the education system and the negative impact of poor education policy on jobs and their children's futures is a good place to focus. It does not have to be always a painful confrontation. I'm saying simply that there is a time to scream and a time converse in all matters. The Rs hammer away at divisive issues. Sometimes we need to take the wind out of their sails and focus on the areas of common interest.

[CWebster]

32. Finding common ground with the common man

is not achieved by reinforcing the Right's world view. Because the Right does not and DID NOT compromise--they got everything --including judges who oppose the common man's interests.

[Skidmore]

33. Quit thinking national party and start thinking local.

Who is suggesting reinforcing the Right's world view? They don't have everything. If they did, they wouldn't be trying to lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want. If they were sure they could get what they want easily, they wouldn't be trying to lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want.

I live in a small rural community. Everyone knows everyone and their business. It makes a difference when I keep a Dean sticker in the window and a Kerry/Edwards sign on my front lawn. I've had friends and neighbors come up and thank me for having them there--and this is considered a reddish purple county. I've had fairly religious people sidle up and say "I don't agree with (________) right now. It is not of God." Those are opportunities to isolate the area in which people can agree with you. Yes, they will retain some of their beliefs, but some can be influenced. You cannot engage in active listening when you are shouting. Hear people so that you can respond to them.

[SmokingJacket]

4. But did Frist even HAVE the votes?

That's my concern: that we didn't need to compromise.

Of course compromise is better than outright failure... but frankly, my sense is that we didn't *need* to give them the judges and promise to be good children and not filibuster. Frist was going to blow it.

Now we're doing the happy dance because the rules stay the same, but the repubs get what they want anyway.

I agree with you that compromise is a great thing in theory, when both sides work to get along, yadda yadda. But in reality, one side here was out of line. They were in the wrong.

This compromise was not about "the preservation of the nation"; it was some congressmen saving their political asses.

[Skidmore]

7. Sometimes congressmen

"saving their political asses" is the same thing as saving the nation. Their "saving their political asses" is a recognition that they have gone beyond what is reasonable in pursuing ideological interests. It is a recognition that the people are not there with them.

[Vinca]

20. Excellent point.

I wondered whether they would get the votes needed to ixnay the filibuster when it got down to the line. McCain wasn't going to vote for it, Warner wouldn't have and I'm sure there were others. If it had gone to a vote we had the potential to be either big winners or bigger winners. The voting public was not happy with the Republican power grab. We might have lost the filibuster temporarily, but won the race.

[unfrigginreal]

6. As Frist says "The way I see it, all options are still on the table"

It's a wonderful compromise. We get three right-wing loons on the court and fold on an issue that the public backed us on.

I can hardly wait for Bush to nominate Judge Roy Moore to the Supreme Court.

[Skidmore]

8. Then we fillibuster.

[unfrigginreal]

9. No. Then we vote on the right to fillibuster.

[mirrera]

13. Compromise?

If we fillibuster wasn't our deal with the Republicans to only do so in "extreme" cases? Who decides what is extreme? It is clear the 2 parties have little common ground with defining extreme. As soon as we fillibuster they will say we are breaking the deal and go back on their word. They still hold the gun... I would rather our Democrats stuck to principal. My Maine senators will both fold to try and "save" our bases. It is all bogus!

[ClintonTyree]

23. We can't just filibuster any time we want....

it has to be agreed upon by BOTH sides that it is an "extreme" case.

Do you think the Pukes are going to "allow" any extreme cases?

We've put the filibuster behind a "break glass in case of emergency" barrier. Who's going to break the glass? If the Dems to the Pukes will say "false alarm", nothing to see here.

I have a hard time believing how naive some Dems are. Some think we're playing a game in which both sides will adhere to the rules. Anyone who thinks the Pukes are going to start playing fair because of this "compromise" is in for a very rude awakening.

[mzmolly]

10. WE vote on 3 right wing loons.

;)

[DemocracyInaction]

14. Actually, I wouldn't mind more of this

It all had a way of highlighting how insane the republicans have become. I don't think most people look at the Dems as some raving super left wing wild liberals anymore---that was the 60's. I don't think they looked at what the Dems were doing in this fight as wacko because of how the filibuster is a Senate tradition (it's kind of like the repubs trying to burn the flag). But I think it's a breath of fresh air to many as they see that these people don't have as tight a grip as they think they do and that someone will stand up to them. We will never get every nugget we want even if we become the majority. I wouldn't mind if level-headed people started to really do some work in that useless Congress that has done nothing but attack the American people. If our Dems would join with those moderates and basically cut the lunatics out of discussions, I think the vast majority of this country would warm up to them and start turning these nut jobs out into streets.

[ClintonTyree]

16. The entire "compromise" is predicated....

on "Trust". Do any Democrats actually believe that bush and his merry gang of thugs can be trusted? The Democrats have to stop being so naive. They think the other side will play fair now. :eyes: Yeah, when pigs fly.

[Skidmore]

18. The trust has to hold in that small group of Senators for

right now until we learn as a nation to trust one another again. Such a fine thread this nation hangs by now. Perhaps it's time to start seeking common ground with our neighbors.

[mirrera]

25. Common Ground?

The only common ground is full of buried bodies...

www.nobullshirt.com

[bvar22]

26. This is the small group of Senators you are trusting:

The Democratic Party was blindsided by a small but powerful and well financed group of conservative Democratic Senators the majority of which are members of the DLC.

These are the Democratic Senators who brokered the DEAL where the Democrats got NOTHING,
and the Republicans got 3 more fanatic Corporatists on the bench.


Joe Lieberman--DLC

Ben Nelson---DLC

Mary Landrieu---DLC

Mark Pryor---DLC

Ken Salazar---no DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus)100

Kent Conrad---No DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus)97.5

Robert Byrd---No DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus) 60


It breaks my heart to see one of my heroes on this list, but there he is, just like the Bankruptcy Bill.
These are the MOST conservative PRO-CORPORATE anti LABOR Democratic Senators in Washington DC.
Did they serve YOU, or their Corporate Masters?

The biggest objection that the Democrats had against Owens and Pryor were that they ALWAYS ruled in favor of CORPORATE POWER and AGAINST the Working American and Consumer.


Do you REALLY think that the Working Class (Democrats) got a deal?

If you WORK for a LIVING, you have been stabbed in the back by the Democrats who openly solicit BRIBES from those who OWN the Corporations!

Was this a compromise or just another sell out?

[Boo Boo]

24. Bah.

1) I don't see much of a compromise here. Bush gets a few of his judges and guys like Bayh and Lieberman get to grandstand, but what exactly do Dems get out of this "compromise"? To live to lose another day?

2) This is not an important "issue," it's a trumped-up bogus issue. Medicare, that's an important issue. This is an attempt by Bush (successful, btw) to bully Democrats and moderate Republicans into giving him what he wants. This is pandering to the extremist fundamentalist wing of the Republican party.

IMO, this is a weak resolution that can very well fall apart in the future. It doesn't "save" those "checks and balances," it gives a portion of the filibuster away and puts restrictions on the remainder.

[seabeyond]

27. you are right skidmore

compromise has been so absent, i hardly recognize. thank you for allowing me to see it again. i too was one saying, was a loss for us. but this si just want compromise consists of. interesting seeing how far away we have gone from compromise since repugs took over