Five reasons why the filibuster compromise is a win for the Democrats

[TheGunslinger]

This is actually a big win for the Democrats.

First, a lying liar has been exposed. Mitch McConnell was saying they "had the votes". If that was the case, why did the GOP cave and not enact the nuclear option?

Second, this preserves the filibuster for future nominees, esp. the Supreme Court where Rehnquist's days on the bench are surely numbered.

Third, Owens (as bad of a judge as she is) is going to a court already filled with Republicans. She won't do much more damage there.

Fourth, the Fristians will eat Sen. Dobson-Frist alive now. You can fully expect James Dobson and his Out-of-Focus on the Family to be leveling some pointed rhetoric his way.

Fifth, seven Republican Senators said the nuclear option was bad. There is hope for the moderate Republicans yet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I will have to give this a careful thoguht

I tend to agree taht this is a victory in the strategic sense, but lord it does not feel like one... at all

[Erika]

2. The Committee said Bush should submit names prior to

the nomination of judges to both parties.

Mr. Dobson is furious.

The moderates are distancing themselves from Bush at a fantastic rate and talking about how any new judges would be so outstanding they would have no criticism against them (Nightline tonight)

[AuntiBush]

7. Sincerely hope you're right, but been hashing this out all night.

I don't think so. Boxer, Reid, Dodson and the other (sorry, been a long shocking night) didn't look happy in that little media interview.

The other 14 were conjoined, as if separated from the other Dem's. And unlike Boxer and Reid, and the others (like Biden), they didn't answer questions to the reporters and seemed like they were holding in their disappointment, and anger.

Why were they not part of the 14?

[AuntiBush]

3. Gotta weigh this one out for a few days, respectfully.

Don't feel good about this one bit. Trust me, I wish I did.

[TnDem]

4. Horseshit

Too bad most of what you pointed out is irrelevant..Who gives a damn what Dobson says, who cares how Frist looks or what he SAYS he thinks, who cares is Mitch McConnel is a liar or looks like one.

The Bottom line is that Owen, Pryor and Brown are set to NOW be confirmed in a position that is a hairs breadth from SCOTUS. They will be confirmed by the full senate without a filibuster. That means that there is NO WAY on this earth that they will be able to be filibustered for a position in SCOTUS by the same Senate that just confirmed them. If Bush nominated Owen to SCOTUS and Schumer decided to filibuster, the "moderate 14" would not give him the few votes he needed to sustain his filibuster. It's over folks.

There is no good news. We won nothing. understand it and get it through your heads. What you pointed out is irrelevant petty bullshit.

[TheGunslinger]

5. And you think the Dems will sit back and not filibuster a fast-track appt?

Give me a break.

You're crying for no reason other than to be crying.

These three haven't even been voted upon and you already have them sitting on the SCOTUS.


This was a big win for the Dems and for the Country! America got to see what the leaders of the GOP stand for: divisiveness and hatred. The moderate Republicans took a stand along with the Democrats. That can only be good for this country.

[TnDem]

14. And if they do...

If the Democrats were to filibuster any appointment of someone that they had recently confirmed, then the "agreement" is over, (as Sen. Dewine said), and the Nuclear option is back. It hasn't went anywhere. Understand that fact.

The fact is that as of yesterday, Owen, Pryor and Brown were serving recess appointments and their chances were iffy and on life support. Now they are all but certain to be confirmed without a sustainable wimper from the Democrats.

If they get confirmed,(which they will), then there is not a single reason why they won't be on a fast trck to SCOTUS.

[TheGunslinger]

18. I just don't see it.

And, we only have one position on SCOTUS up and there's no telling when that will even happen. And, it's a conservative position, too, so not much would be lost.


But, I just don't see any of these three getting a fast track to the SCOTUS. Just ain't gonna happen.


Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see one or more of them get rejected in the Senate!

[smartvoter]

50. Same here. nt

[davidinalameda]

8. the three worst now have lifetime appointments to the federal courts

the only good thing is that Brown is going to be off the California Supreme Court-the bad thing is that Ahnuld gets to pick her replacement

wonder if the state Dems have the balls to stand up to him on this one

[demwing]

9. "What you pointed out is irrelevant petty "

You'll have to do better than call names and act like a know it all if you want to be convincing.

[TankLV]

31. I think he was pretty clear and said it about just right.

The gunslinger certainly doesn't have the answer.

Must be nice to have those special glasses.

[demwing]

32. Thats your opinion. I disagree.

And I don't wear glasses, not even the rose colored variety. I see just fine, which is more than I can say for some.

[TankLV]

77. Based on a long record, my position will be proven to be the correct one,

again. You can never trust the repukes to keep their part of the bargain. They always renig.

You don't have to trust me or my opinion. The record speaks loudly.

When you appease a bully by giving him everything he wants, you only make the bully stronger and harder to defeat.

We gave up without even fighting. They got what they wanted. We have the "opition" - ONLY IF WE PROMISE NOT TO USE IT! What part of that don't you people understand?!?!?!

[Erika]

13. Owen and the rest have been marginalized

They would do well to withdraw their names. The Republicans on Nightline just assured all future possible nominees would be first ran through the Dems and the GOP prior to even being named. Yeah, Bush snuck a few radicals through the process, but they have been marginalized and should withdraw their names.

[onenote]

36. there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't filibuster either

for a Supreme Court position.

onenote

[rhett o rick]

47. They sold us out again. The War and now this. What next?

Repeal of the two term limit for President. The Demo's would compromise on that too. They would cave if the Repub's promised not to seek a life time appointment for the President. Think about it, it would save all the voting hassles.

[ugarte]

6. Points all well taken

At this point we have to trust the good will of Republican moderates, at least until our Senate numbers improve. But it's better than the alternative, i.e. a united bloc of Republicans and no filibuster.

[TheGunslinger]

11. Esp. considering we only stood at 49 votes this morning.

Imagine Cheney wielding the axe?


:scared:


The last remnants of a conscience in the GOP showed up today.

[Writer]

60. Bless you! Thank you! Thank you!

I think your point is well taken. The Democratic Party is out of power, and this is a very, very good victory for dissent in Congress.

[tritsofme]

10. I thought this too until I saw DeWine's comments

Look at what he said in the news conference today.

Some of you who are looking at the language may wonder what some of the clauses mean. The understanding is – and we don’t think this will happen – but if an individual senator believes in the future that a filibuster is taking place under something that’s not extraordinary circumstances, we of course reserve the right to do what we could have done tomorrow which is to cast a yes vote for the constitutional option.

If we filibuster a SCOTUS nominee, DeWine and perhaps Warner will say the nominee did not present "extraordinary circumstances" and go nuclear with Frist.

[TheGunslinger]

12. Let them go nuclear then.

This constant threat from the GOP to do so is not sitting well with the rest of America. Esp. once a compromise was reached and then if they try this again? No...won't sit well at ALL with the voting public.

[tritsofme]

16. They can say Dems reneged on their part of the deal

and that this particular nominee does present "extraordinary circumstance" and that will give them the necessary cover to go nuclear.

Doing it then may even leave them in a better situation than if they did it now.

[TheGunslinger]

21. But the odds of needing to filibuster are going down quickly

The president will now give the names to the committee prior to nominating them. That can prevent them from even coming out of committee...like the GOP did to Clinton's nominees on MANY an occasion.

[tritsofme]

26. You think pubs will block Bush nominees in the Judiciary Committee?

You appearently have much more faith in our "moderate Republican" friends than I do.

[ugarte]

22. I really don't think these Republican moderates want to end the filibuster

That's why this deal was struck. I wouldn't charcterize it as a victory for the Democrats, but the filibuster avoided the death penalty and I don't think the moderate Republicans want to revisit this issue any time soon. More important, Frist is on notice of that.

[tritsofme]

30. DeWine already indicated he would vote for the nuclear option

If it came to that.

All it would take is Graham or Warner and the Senate gets nuked.

I wouldn't doubt if Rove's hands are all over this deal.

[ginnyinWI]

20. very true--they read the polls

They've been flying against public opinion for some time as it is; it would look like the height of divisiveness to try it at some later time, after all the good will being spread around by their more moderate brothers and sisters today. They'll have to ask themselves just how badly they want to keep the social-conservative vote and any benefits BushCo might have left for them.

[tritsofme]

29. I think this compromise will leave them in a better situation to go

nuclear later!

Frist of course will take credit for the compromise and will get a few of the "moderates" to say that the case of the next filibustered nominee is not "extraordinary" and he will talk of how they tried to hard to compromise and save the Senate from the nuclear option but the Dems just went and reneged on their deal, and all attempts had been made at compromise.

This might help them in flailing public opinion.

Once again I think we got caught playing checkers while they were playing chess.

[googly]

23. Which America? The one which voted Bush** into office?

[TheGunslinger]

24. The one that gives * a 43% approval rating right now.

[Rex_Goodheart]

15. What advantage?

What advantage is there in exposing Frist as a liar? Both sides knew that already.

The filibuster has NOT been preserved. Any time any Democrat tries to invoke it the Republicans will declare that the circumstance does not fit the "extraordinary" standard, and will threaten the nuclear option all over again.

Dobson has already praised Frist in the aftermath of this "compromise".

The seven Republican Senators said the nuclear option was bad... ha! of course it's bad, but they DON'T care... they all reserved the right to use it if the Democrats don't toe the line.

[ugarte]

17. Dobson praised Frist but hates the compromise

Frist also hates the compromise because he got by-passed and was made to look irrelevant. I do believe that the moderate Republicans in the main were looking for a face-saving way out of this. They do not want to vote to end the filibuster, and now they have cover for not doing so.

[TheGunslinger]

19. Dobson has praised Frist? WTF?

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=47847


Frist's political future is OVER.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheGunslinger]

27. Who's drinking the Kool-Aid if you don't see this as a positive?

Look at the spin tonight from the right.

Their panties are in such a wad they'll need backhoes to have them extracted from their asses!

[kirchaleo]

28. I have mixed feelings about this

It sure seems as though the Democrats had no power and had to agree to this. I'm not happy about these particular judges having life time appointments, either. Has it gotten that bad that we have to give up so much just to get a compromise that can be dissolved at any time?

[Voltaire99]

33. Five ways to rationalize surrender.

And not a one of them persuasive. Try harder.

[TheGunslinger]

34. good grief

:eyes:

[Disturbed]

35. Dems lose...again.

Internut

Here's the political reality:

"The Democratic senators in the group agreed that they would only support filibusters of "extreme" candidates. But, in order for the agreement to hold, the Republican senators in the group have to agree with the Democratic senators that the candidate is, in fact, "extreme". But - if these 7 Republicans agree that the candidate is "extreme", they would not vote for him/her, so the filibuster is not needed anyway. Conclusion: the Democrats hold no cards at all.

On the other hand, if the Republican senators in the group think the candidate is not "extreme", they either veto the filibuster or open up the "nuclear" option again. They hold ALL the cards." Internut

[TankLV]

78. You got that right!

[DARE to HOPE]

37. God is good! This is His Spirit! Hallelujah!

Today is my birthday, and I asked Him, for my birthday present, for the Bush Republicans to LOSE.

And lose they did. :-)

[Roland99]

38. Check out these videos at Crooks and Liars!

The Republicans look like they're at a funeral!!


Blog Round-up of Reactions to the Compromise
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/05/23.html

[Az_lefty]

80. That video of Frist is absolutely pathetic!

:puke:

[CWebster]

41. What did they lose? nt

They even preserved the filllibuster for themselves while denying the Dems the use of it.

What did they lose--they got their picks.

[CTyankee]

39. A question for everyone

Has there ever been a judge appointed and confirmed by the Senate to a federal court who is immediately re-appointed to the Supreme Court when a vacancy occurs shortly thereafter? Do we really believe that one of the 3 clowns up for the federal courts will be up for SCOTUS in a matter of a few months? Or will one of the 3 withdraw their name and wait for the other shoe to drop (Rehnquist retiring)?

[Roland99]

40. My memory is foggy but Souter and Thomas?

But:


AmericaBlog: (From Joe) - But, in the long run, this forces the White House to think differently about the Supreme Court.

[CTyankee]

42. Unless the Repubs had this planned all along

I can't help thinking this has been thought out by Karl Rove and carefully planned. All this "outrage" from the RWingers notwithstanding. Something doesn't smell right.

[Roland99]

43. If one of these 3 gets nominated to replace Rehnquist, filibuster time!!

[BlueManDude]

44. Who cares about Frist?

So what if Frist has egg on his face. The agenda has been furthered and 3 judges who were not going to make it are now on the Fed bench.

If the GOP didn't have the "nuke option" votes why bail them out with a deal?

[Roland99]

45. As I wrote in WilliamPitt's thread...

Frist was the lap-dog of the radical Christian extremists, specifically, James Dobson.

Dobson put all of his eggs in Frist's basket and Frist "failed" him.

Dobson is one pissed-off fake Christian and this will likely lead to more extreme antics and rhetoric from these religious extremists which will expose their hatred, bigotry, and false faith before the whole nation.


Also, it seems some of the Republican Senators saw the compromise as workable. I think we were right on the edge or maybe even a vote behind. Why risk giving the GOP *everything*?

[rhett o rick]

46. This compromise is like telling Hitler he can have Poland but

promise to stay out of France. What did we gain. they got Owen and the others. We got a promise to not change the rule unless they want to. You better believe they won't let the Demo's use the filibuster on the Supreme Court nominee. So what did we win. We should have called their bluff and made them change the rule.

[Eliot Spitzer 2006]

53. Thank God for Senator Byrd saving the "Republic"

I had to laugh when Senator Byrd said that they had "saved the republic." Some Senators just don't have any sense of proportionality - megalomaniacs!

[Roland99]

48. Limbaugh is going berserk!

:rofl:

[rhett o rick]

62. He needs his medication modulated

[Writer]

49. Here's a sixth reason: the GOP is completely in power

And the right-wing is completely in control of the GOP. Why are Bauer and Buchanan whining? Because this proves that not only is the right-wing not in full control of the GOP, but the GOP is not in full control of the Democrats.

I like it.

Writer.

Edit to include: Wow, Karl. Looks like you're now 0 for 3, bitch.

[CWebster]

51. address it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1806076#1806100

[Writer]

52. No. I will not.

Because this is a petty thread that fails to see the big picture. Hello! The Democrats have no upper-hand but just bitch-slapped the GOP's attempt to create a one-party system.

[CWebster]

54. Just this one:

The filibuster is dead

Edited on Tue May-24-05 01:37 PM by Internut
The Democratic senators in the group agreed that they would only support filibusters of "extreme" candidates. But, in order for the agreement to hold, the Republican senators in the group have to agree with the Democratic senators that the candidate is, in fact, "extreme". But - if these 7 Republicans agree that the candidate is "extreme", they would not vote for him/her, so the filibuster is not needed anyway. Conclusion: the Democrats hold no cards at all.

On the other hand, if the Republican senators in the group think the candidate is not "extreme", they either veto the filibuster or open up the "nuclear" option again. They hold ALL the cards.

Net effect: same thing as before, except now, instead of Democrats having the right to decide to filibuster, the seven Republican senators have the veto power over it.

[Writer]

55. The filibuster is dead: does that sound reasonable to you?

This is an incredibly alarmist, defeatist evaluation and, as I stated before, fails to see the big picture. What are you expecting from a party completely out of power? Total domination? That's completely unreasonable. This is an major coup by Harry Reid! He made Frist and the right-wingers of his party look like chumps by handing disenchanted moderate Republicans power to vote alongside Democrats. This is terrific!

[CWebster]

56. Didn't think you could

Let's see if anyone else can.

Deny all you want but it is one rude awakening.

[Writer]

57. LOL - what kind of childish response is this?

I don't think it's worth responding to in full, because I have a feeling that no response will satiate your need to see things through a defeatist, all or nothing lens.

(flicks the troll off her shoulder)

[CWebster]

58. still waiting. nt

[Writer]

59. LOL n/t

[mzmolly]

73. Actually CW the R's don't have to agree, it's at our COMPLETE

discretion. This is one of the reasons the RW is so pissed.

:hi:

[Writer]

61. I am laying back, all smiles about this.

There's tension within the ranks of the Republican Party. Moderates know that the right-wing has control. Reid bitch-slapped Frist and his congressional disciples.

I like it - a lot!

[Roland99]

63. I do, too. Only 44 DemSenators andthe "Nuclear Option" was halted!!

[Writer]

65. Yup yup.

This is an incredible coup.

Reid: "Frist, you won't play?"

Frist: "Murkins love their Jesus!"

Reid: "Is that all you have, Frist?"

Frist: "Murkins love their Jesus!"

Reid: "Okay... hmmm... let me go find the moderates, then."

:D

[rhett o rick]

64. The filibuster lives......until it is used.

[ananda]

69. exactly

The Dems get to keep the filibuster, as long as..

.. they don't use it!

Everything lost and nothing gained there.

I have yet to see a bright spot in this scenario.

Sue

[rocktivity]

66. DING DING DING! Gunslinger, you're our grand prize winner!

Five shots, five hits--you've done yourself some mighty fine shootin', Gunslinger!

Having to surrender the three judges (out of seven) is more than offset by the damage done to the GOP's long-term plans. Bill "The Passion Of The" Frist has been publicly castrated, and now he'll have to navigate an internal civil war between him, the GOP moderates (McCain suddenly smells like an anti-Bush rose), and his purse-string holding, betrayed-feeling Fristian flock.

:headbang:
rocknation

[WilliamPitt]

67. A sixth reason

http://blog.pdamerica.org/?p=77

[rocktivity]

71. I think you owe a royalty, Will!

Me:
Frist..(will)...now...have to navigate an internal civil war...

You (seven minutes later):
I love the smell of right-wing civil war in the morning...

Not bad, considering that I'm a rank amateur compared to you!

:rofl:
rocknation

[TheGunslinger]

75. Nice seeing all that, eh?

I read a Wash. Times article. I was laughing my butt off reading it.

[ananda]

68. all bs

This was not a win for anybody.

It is a huge loss for America and the system of checks and balances.

Moderate Republicans are not even centrists. That shows how extreme the extreme right wing really is. Even Dems veer to the right.

There is very little center and no leftwing left to speak of.

Sue

[Vinca]

70. If they didn't have the votes and the Democrats compromised,

it was a big mistake on our part because this issue is going to come back again. I'm disappointed the Democrats settled for this agreement, even if there is a little joy in knowing they've pissed off the fundies, freepers and what's-her-face Malkin. It boils down to they get their judges and the "nuclear" option is still on the table if a Democrat decides to filibuster in the future.

[progressoid]

72. Umm, your third one is a little weak

Actually a lot weak.

Because there are already a lot of Republicans there, adding one more is a win?

:shrug:

[TheGunslinger]

74. True that one is a bit weak but...

she won't have as much effect there as if she was placed someplace else.

[Massacure]

76. I disagree with the first point.

They could have had the votes, but those seven may not have wanted to get left in the cold when the pendulum swings the other way.

The second point cannot be verified. Nothing is to stop frist from going nuclear with a SCOTUS nomination.

[snowbear]

79. "Deal on Judges may complicate Bush Agenda"

New on Washington Post.com... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/25/AR2005052500198.html