Russ Feingold: This is not a good deal for the Senate or for the people

[IndianaGreen]

Statement of Senator Russ Feingold on Tonight's Decision Regarding Judicial Nominees and the Filibuster

May 23, 2005

This is not a good deal for the U.S. Senate or for the American people. Democrats should have stood together firmly against the bullying tactics of the Republican leadership abusing their power as they control both houses of Congress and the White House. Confirming unacceptable judicial nominations is simply a green light for the Bush administration to send more nominees who lack the judicial temperament or record to serve in these lifetime positions. I value the many traditions of the Senate, including the tradition of bipartisanship to forge consensus. I do not, however, value threatening to disregard an important Senate tradition, like occasional unlimited debate, when necessary. I respect all my colleagues very much who thought to end this playground squabble over judges, but I am disappointed in this deal.

http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/statements/05/05/200552327.html

[jpgray]

1. I agree with Russ, I think

I'm not convinced we gained much politically for the judicial harm that will be done. We should have stood by our principles on this and rejected nominees that have no business being nominated, and if the nuclear button was pushed we would have carte blanche to finally be an opposition party without being second guessed all the time.

[AuntiBush]

4. You hit it! That's what we're lacking on the Hill:

"PRINCIPLE!" "CONVICTION" to stand-by your principles.

That's what our country was factually founded on. Not what happened tonight. I'm having a tough time w/some out here declaring victory as I see none.

[jpgray]

6. I can understand the decision, though--the filibuster is important

It makes sense in the short term to take a punch to the face to avoid being thrown off a cliff, but punches to the face can add up in the long term, and I'm afraid this isn't part of any comprehensive strategy but is just purely an ad hoc reaction to the GOP.

[IndianaGreen]

9. The GOP did not give up the nuclear option with this "deal"

According to Ohio's Senator DeWine, if the Democrats filibuster a SCOTUS nominee, the GOP reserves the right to use the nuclear option.

We won nothing!

[jpgray]

23. Not exactly--we delayed the fight and can stop two of five noms

The problem is I don't see what delaying the fight gains us.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

39. Nothing. And we lost.

Three nominees who should never even have made it to the Senate floor for a vote will now don Federal judicial robes, and the two who were jettisoned will be back - or there will be even worse nominees.

The Democrats capitulated, once again running away from a fight.

We lost because the Democrats do not know how to fight, do not have the stomach for a fight, do not have the leadership or solidarity for a fight, do not have the backbone for a fight.

I'm falling back into my old anarchist ways because of these slugs who call themselves our "elected representatives."

[AuntiBush]

10. Like minds think alike. Purely an ad hoc reaction to GOP.

Bush/Rove won. Shrewd bunch. Sly like foxes. The Filibuster is not only important, it's vital.

Our Constitution has already been destroyed.
Crime family running out gov't.
Horrible war based on lies.
Extreme "Federalist" judges now to be nominated w/a certain win vote (Owens/Brown).
Some of the 14 Repub's that voted tonight (the so-called hero's) interviewed by Chris Matthews MSNBC said:

1. Yes, we'll get Bolton nominated.
2. Yes, Bush's Social Security "REFORM/DESTRUCTION" will go through.

Matthews eyes popped-out on that one saying "Really!?!" Thought he was getting a natural on that one.

No. I respectfully disagree with some out here. We won nothing. No matter how you look at it. "Unless," somethings going on we know nothing about.

[zipplewrath]

35. I'm cynical

I don't believe for a second that this deal was worked out because of any high principals or because of anything to do with judges. There is an "anti-leadership" wing of both parties that sees their leaderships actions as contrary to the needs of particular senators. Basically this was a bunch of senators, more than those who put their names to this mess, who saw an opportunity to work against the motives of their leaderships. Deals were worked out, and people on both sides of the aisle made it clear to their leadership that they can still act independently to seek to protect their own pork. There's been too many "loyalty" votes lately and this was a way of forcing the leadership to acknowledge that they lead at the pleasure of their party members. Frist gets to keep the issue as a campaign issue for '06 and beyond. Reid gets to appear to be ready to "play tough", and the rest of the senators get to continue to block legislation as a part of larger deals. It's what Bolton is going to be all about. Other deals will be cut and Bolton will be the coin of exchange for those deals. Cut enough deals with the Dems, he gets approved. Cut enough with the Pubs, and he never gets a vote.

This deal was worked out because the leadership understood that they couldn't stop it, so only insisted that nothing be permanent. Dems can still block nominations and Pubs can still invoke the nuclear option. It just delayed it until another day.

[chicagiana]

50. The deal calls for Democrats to STOP the use of fillibusters ...

... so when the Democrats due pull out the fillibuster, they will be accused of reneging on their word.

TODAY ... the Democrats had public support on their side. They should have forced the Republicans to use the nuclear option and take the hit in popular support.

We saw a lesson in brinksmenship. The Democrats LOST because they have ZERO backbone!!!!!

AND ....

The Democrats will get rolled in EVERY subsequent encounter because the pukes now know they have no stomach to do difficult things.

The Democrats got rolled. They lost face because the public agreement provides NOTHING for the Democrats. All the agreement says is that the Republicans will get what they wanted all along and the Democrats promise not to get in their way.

You just LISTEN to the conservative hosts today, EVERY one of them will be dancing on the Democrat's grave and pointing out that the Democrats capitulated with NOTHING in return. It was unconditional surrender. They didn't even manage to sink the questionable nominations.

[Sparkman]

83. Fighting is often about coming back after a battle.

The majority of current day American Males have never been in a real fight. A street fight. At some point, one fighter quits or is disabled. The winner gets the satisfaction. The loser may get the chance to rematch. This was not a fight, it was rhetorical and the fight never came. The fight is for coming up with the best ideas, in the arena of public opinion and the fight has been postponed. They didn't want to fight yet.

[chicagiana]

101. Obviously ...

You obviously know nothing about politics.

In the meantime, I reminded myself about the frog and the boiling pot. A frog immersed into boiling water will immediately jump out. However, if you set the frog into a cool pot and then boil it, it won't notice.

The Republicans were about to toss the Republic into a boiling pot of water. Instead, the Democrats capitulated and allowed them to keep raising the temperature without their clueless minions noticing.

We all know they mean to undo the fabric of our society. They mean to create an oligarchal structure. They now have all the cards. Their ONLY weakness seems to be loosing patience and blowing their wad too soon.

It's absolute STUPIDITY to delay. Time is on THEIR side. Force the Republicans to put their cards on the table so people know what they're REALLY about!!!!

[Pushed To The Left]

117. The right wing hosts are IRATE!!

Limbaugh and Hannity were definitely NOT happy!

[Voltaire]

74. I think your take is the best one on this I've seen

I am in complete agreement that in the final analysis both sides have put off the final reckoning for another day. And that day is coming sooner than they think.

[ooglymoogly]

61. the filibuster now has the sword of damocles hanging over it

making it useless. the dems reaffirmed their impotency by this action....they should have stood and fought and if they lost the fight the gop would bear the consequence. the gop would have changed the constitution and i think the people of this country would not have stood for it... the dems appear to have gained only some very shaky window dressing and lost their lives while the gop avoided showing their hypocrisy and just how vicious and single minded they are. the pundits are telling us how wonderful for the dems. what a joke...i am totally disillusioned...the filibuster is dead and the gop didn't even have to show their disastrous hand

[chicagiana]

42. This is a HUGE reason Democrats are losing ...

Democrats don't stand their ground. They keep getting rolled. They refuse to speak truth to power.

This agreemant is transparently a COMPLETE capitulation. Perhaps those who negotiated the agreemant were doing little more than lobbying for Pork while selling the greater good down the drain.

We are like Hitler's opposition. We keep appeasing the beast. The beast keeps wanting more.

I say we start the White Rose party and forget these SPINELESS Democrats1!!!!

[TheFarseer]

34. I'd like to agree. The problem is

we would have lost and had no power at all. The democratic senators might as well have gone home if the nuclear option passed, which I am convinced it would have. As it stands, we're pretty screwed on judicial nominees unless and until we can win back the senate but at least we can oppose some other things.

[pgh_dem]

47. As opposed to claiming victory, and having no power at all.

What's the difference?

Thank the DLC for another stunning sellout.

[CanOfWhoopAss]

68. WTF??!! What good is a fillibuster if you can never use it.

Let the repukes take it. If you have to bend over and grab your ankles do it with your boots on.

[tavalon]

77. Despite Frist's claim that he wasn't involved

he was. And the reason this 11th hour compromise was allowed to go forward is because Frist didn't have the votes to win. Otherwise, the word would have come down on the GOP side that no compromise was to be allowed. That's how the mafia works and these people are mafioso.

Why did compromise come so late? Two reasons, first Frist wanted to hold out till the end to see if he could strong arm a couple more GOPs and second he needed to saber rattle to the bitter end to satisfy his wacko fundy base.

[Cynot]

80. You are so right.

If the Dems had only held their ground, all five of these Neanderthals could have been blocked. But thanks to these seven spineless ones, we will have these three reactionary idiots shoved down our throats, with more to come when they get a Supreme Court nomination or two.

[chicagiana]

103. Do you follow the news ...

The "nuclear option" that was discussed applied only to the filibuster of judicial nominees. Not to the filibuster in general.

Now the Dems have promised not to use filibusters at all to preserve the right to filibuster a Supreme nomination. At that point, the Republicans will simply exercise their "nuclear option" in contradiction of Senate rules ... PLUS ... the Dems will look like asses becuase they have promised not to filibuster expect in "extreme" cases.

[Bandit]

38. This is exactly why the Democrats are History

They will not stand for principle which makes them every bit as unprincipled as the Republicans. Sometimes it is better to go down fighting than to just go down. 212 out of 215 and I am sure they will get the other three as well. Great Victory for the Democrats Yeah!!!

[chicagiana]

54. Why is the movie Braveheart popular ...

Because William Wallace went down fighting for a popular cause. Others took up the cause and eventually the fight was one.

The Democrats are unwilling to self-sacrifice. They unwilling to do heroic acts that will inspire. It's no wonder that people are becoming more and more unwilling to vote for them.

I'm truly starting to believe that the Democratic Party is history. Start working on your Green or Progressive or White Rose party. The Democrats are going the way of the Whigs.

[chicagiana]

46. What is amazing about this debate ...

What is amazing about this debate is there has been so LITTLE discussion about the types of judges these people are. There has also been little discussion about the countless Clinton appointees that Republicans ran Comittee filibusters against. That is, they just plain refused to hold hearings for Clinton nominees.

The Democrats got ROLLED once again. The Senators not involved in these treasonous discussions had best get on a high horse and fight. These ASSHATS who negotiated promised not to fillibuster unless cases of "extreme severity" occured. Now the Democrats cannot fillibuster ANYTHING without being accused of violating their word.

What a bunch of idiotic ASSHATS!!!! They had public support on THEIR side and they ROLLED OVER.

This crop of extreme judges were test cases for the nomination of fascist judges. Now that they will pass, Bush will prefer their nomination.

[Pachamama]

2. I agree- the playground Bully got the lunch money....

....if you ask me what was resolved today, the GOP like a big bully on the playground basically told the Dems that they promise not to kick their ass if they give them their lunch money and not in the future as long as they continue giving their lunch money in the form of the judicial nominees....And anytime the Dems stop giving the lunch money (aka threatening to filibuster a judicial nominee) then they will kick our asses again....

[googly]

22. LMAO - ROFL.....great analogy....but I am sad.

[Pachamama]

24. I'm sad...I'm angry...this was not a win...this was the only analogy I

could think of in describing the situation....sure, the kid who just gave their lunch money is psyched not to be beaten up, but that's today...what about in the future?

I'm also sick to my stomach...I keep hoping everytime that the Dem Party will start to be a real opposition party and when I see something like this "deal", I realize real fast that it like so many things is a smokescreen to what is really going on. :hi:

[chicagiana]

55. Nobody learned the "Christmas Story" lesson ...

When you pop the bully in the nose, he goes crying home to momma. The Democrats have all turned into a bunch of WIMPS!!!! Nobody respects a wimp. Why would you vote for a wimp to represent you????

[CanOfWhoopAss]

69. The playground effect!! You couldn't have said it any plainer!

I'm gonna have to borrow the hell out of this but I'll be sure to credit... PACHAMAMA!!!

[Pachamama]

75. Yep, the "Playground Effect"

If in fact the Dems led by people like Reid and Boxer had popped the Bully in the nose, that would have been the huge victory, even if the "nuclear option" had been implemented....

All the polls on the networks were showing that the American public INCLUDING REPUBLICANS were firmly behind the Dems in wanting to keep the filibuster....

If the GOP had tried it, the American public would have risen to defend the underdogs...they would have supported the Dems being bullyed and everyone loves a good fighter who tries...

Like a poster said earlier, if the Dems had popped the Bully in the face, the Bully would have gone running home to Momma...instead, the Dems handed over the lunch money and like I said before, the bully will come back, they always do....

Hi CanofWhoopAss! :hi: Thanks for the credit! Just common sense conclusion from a stay-at-home Mom who goes to playgrounds and watches what happens. I grew up in a GOP family in DC with a father in the Reagan & Bush Administrations....I know bully's...we were dealing with bully's here and they succeeded in bullying....

[AuntiBush]

3. Agree with Senator Russ Feingold, completely!

At least one of them calls it straight. As pathetic a move as it was.

[bobthedrummer]

5. I've always voted for Russ, I'm proud he's my Senator.

:thumbsup:
:patriot:

[bvar22]

The Republican Wing of the Democratic Party sold out.

Alone, without Party consensus or Agreement, these Senators entered into a DEAL with the Republicans that will put 3 fanatic Corporatists on the Federal bench, and will PRESERVE NOTHING for the Democrats.

Joe Lieberman--DLC

Ben Nelson---DLC

Mary Landrieu---DLC

Mark Pryor---DLC

Ken Salazar---no DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus)100

Kent Conrad---No DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus)97.5

Robert Byrd---No DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus) 60

These are the MOST conservative PRO-CORPORATE anti LABOR Democratic Senators in Washington DC.
Did they serve YOU, or their Corporate Masters?

(I hate seeing my hero Byrd on that list, but there he is, just like the Bankruptcy Bill)

[IndianaGreen]

13. That's quite a Hall of DLC Shame you got there, bvar22

No wonder they were all smiling and rubbing elbows with each other.

[holboz]

84. What a surprise - Mark Pryor

Another true Dixiecrat. Well, methinks he'll be hearing from THIS Arkansas Democrat.

I'm so fed up with Democrats. It doesn't matter what fight they're up against you can bet they will always turn and run, even when they stand a good chance winning (or even when they've actually won, such as in the 2000 election).

I'm all for the underdog but only if the underdog is showing me he is making the effort and giving it his all.

I'm disgusted, just disgusted. We need a group of steadfast, take no prisoners, "hey, you want a piece of me old man?" kind of Democratic party. I'm sure there are folks who are just as fed up as the general populace.

[joshorton]

104. Trouble was averted

No one won a damn thing. Republicans got a few judges they wanted, rest are stuck. Democrats stopped a few and are weak in the sense that they were split up a bit. Both sides realized to a large extent that compromise was neccessary. Look everyone, democrats are the minority period. As such, we have to for the time being compromise for the greater good. The greater good being the people. I dont think the nation did not notice the fact that we stood up to the right wing and made the sweat. And when push came to shove they had to compromise as well.
I'm dissappointed as everyone is and we should be. But we also must be proud of the fact that the party organized very well and supporter groups jumped into the fray. This issue isn't over and right now, we found a chink in the republican shit armor. Their party is slowly comming apart and standing up in any way helped that matter. But agreeing to find a compromise makes our party the "bigger person." Don't give up faith in the party or your Senators that pushed for the compromise. There is strength in what they did. Lets not start a big inner argument that breaks us up, this is the time to realize we are united and stronger than we though before.

PS. Just look at the house vote on stem cells to see how their party is facing somce very critical issues that have large divides between them.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

111. Hi joshorton!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[AVID]

7. here . . .here

[EST]

36. Ummm...what does here...here mean?

[ooglymoogly]

65. its what the british say in parliament when they agree with something

but i'm guessing its hear, hear meaning listen listen or hear it well. just my 2 cents.

[EST]

67. Got it! Thanks. You are right, of course, as in listen, listen.

[Stand and Fight]

97. "Here, here" v. "Hear, hear"

The correct term is, "hear, hear!" It is an abbreviation for "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"


Of course, if the speaker is actually asking a question, such as "and just where do you think we should open the new strip club?" it's not hard to imagine that at least one yahoo in attendance might yell, "here, here!" But this would be the exception that proves the rule.


See: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhear.html

[Hippo_Tron]

8. Love Russ, but I'm gonna wait and see

I agree that I wish the Democrats had all stuck together on this but as of now, the gang of 14 had the power to invoke cloture and Reid couldn't do jack shit about it. The next big question is the SCOTUS. If we are able to fillibuster SCOTUS nominees, then I agree with Reid. If we fail to do that, then I agree with Russ.

BTW, Russ for President in 2008. Then extremeist nominees won't be a problem.

[AuntiBush]

12. Not a bad idea! Ross for President.

If we make it to 2008.

[Geek_Girl]

14. I agree with you

It depends on how all this plays out with SCOTUS.

[paineinthearse]

11. Right on, Russ

Screw the DLC!

[fnottr]

15. well, while it ain't perfect, this could have gone down a lot worse

I mean this certainly was a far from optimal turnout, but what exactly could we expect being the minority in all branchs of the government?

As someone over at Kos pointed out, we think we had 49 votes, but we needed two more. And seeing how both of those votes would naturally be Republican senators, it seemed like a long shot. The consequences if Frist would have pulled off the nuclear option would have been unimaginably dire, because not only would it have allowed all of the current nominees to go forward, it would have all but extinguished the last effective means we have of dissent. At least now we live to fight another day.

So let's recap the pros and cons of this deal:

Owens, Brown, and Pryor get sent to the floor and likley nominated..........sucks....a lot

Myers and Saad are stoped............good
We retain power to oppose future nominees in 'extrodinary cases' (which I would argue these five nominees consititute).....still good
The Republican noise machine doesn't get to drag us through the mud..........good, seeing as the media is no friend
Frist is all pissed off...........extremly satisfying, if not actually significant

So while it ain't perfect, I think it's the best we could have hoped for. The consequences of losing on this were just too terrible not to make a deal. especially since it was something of a longshot to win.


EDIT:
Don't get me wrong, I think Feingold would be the best nominee for 2008 at this point.....if we'd actually been standing up for ourselves all this time, I don't think we'd be in the shitty posistion to begin with.

[chicagiana]

57. You don't get it ...

The Democrats just GAVE the last avenue of dissent away willingly.

If the Republicans had pulled the nuclear option, the Democrats could have pointed out the at the Republicans are a bunch of fascists to the people in the 2006 elections.

Now they're just a bunch of mush-mouth go-alongs.

The Democrats LOST the filibuster. They gave it away!!! What are they going to do now??? Go to the American people and say, "jeez, we thought we were going to lose a fight, so we stopped fighting." (In your best Droopy Dog voice). "The Republicans wanted to undermine the Republic, so we just let them have their way."

[Pacifist Patriot]

66. Not true.

The Democrats did not lose the filibuster. They agreed not to filibuster specific nominees. These actions were taken to preserve the filibuster, particularly in the event of a Supreme Court nomination.

Democrats can still point out at that the Republicans were the fascist party striving to eliminate the option and only thanks to rational heads in the Democratic party was disaster able to be averted. Just because the situation has been resolved does not mean it cannot be used as a talking point next year.

Of course compromise is distasteful. I would dearly love to see the Democrats kick butt and take names, but at this point that is so difficult as to be nearly impossible given the numbers in congress.

[iamjoy]

78. And There Is Nothing To Stop

The Republican Facists from threatening to go nuclear again when the next SCOTUS nominee comes up - some one who makes Bork look liberal.

[Pacifist Patriot]

81. And once again they won't have the votes to pull it off.

This compromise means they couldn't get it done.

[zulchzulu]

16. When you want a clear answer, ask Russ

He hit the nail on the head.

[Clarkie1]

17. Democrats did stand together firmly, Russ.

That's why we still have the filibuster.

Your way would have led to the "nuclear option." I'm glad cooler minds prevailed.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Obviously you haven't read Mike DeWine's statement

According to Senator DeWine, the nuclear option remains on the table anytime the Democrats invoke "extraordinary circumstances."

We won nothing!

[Gloria]

19. But, it might be hard for them to use now....we'll have to see

if Frist decided to threaten it again.

[Internut]

20. It will be just as hard for them to use the nuclear option

as it would be for us to filibuster - because all the Republican "moderates" will have to agree with us on the need to filibuster in order to head off the "nuclear option". But then - if they agree with us on the "extremism" of the particular nominee, then the filibuster is not needed.

[chicagiana]

58. No it won't ...

... because we promised not to use it expect in "extreme circumstances". Now you tell me what is an "extreme circumstance".

I will tell you how mundane MOST of the things the Republicans do are. NOTHING will ever rise to something that will seem to be an "extreme circumstance".

[Clarkie1]

21. You have it backwards.

"The understanding is – and we don’t think this will happen – but if an individual senator believes in the future that a filibuster is taking place under something that’s NOT extraordinary circumstances, we of course reserve the right to do what we could have done tomorrow which is to cast a yes vote for the constitutional option."

Yes, it depends on those 14 senators agreeing to what the term "extraordinary circumstances" means. The nomination of a supreme court justice is always extra-ordinary...it doesn't happen often.

We have preserved the filibuster for the most important circumstances, and that is better than what Russ apparently would have chosen...which would be to lose the filibuster entirely.

Politics is and always will be the art of the possible. It requires civil discourse and compromise...without compromising our values. Senator Byrd and the other dems who served us so well today understand that.

If you want a better deal in the future, work to elect dems in 06' so we regain the majority!

[EST]

43. I am (and seem to have always been) fundamentally

naive and far too easy to persuade-I fall for the latest sob story almost every time. I keep thinking I have it all pegged and then someone like that slimy little worm, smarmy ex military lawyer type(his initials are Lindsay Graham,) will step forward and do or say something really noble, and basically vow to the whole world that he has finally become aware that his party had skated too far to the right on the snail trail left by the Bushrovians and that the center was going stand up against the neofascists, though it was going to make him stink pretty bad at home.

Which brings me to my question: How can we compromise and still keep our principles? It looks like the only coin you actually have to bargain with is your principles, realizing, of course that the opposition probably already shares some of them.

[wrate]

89. The Nuclear Option still needs votes and the Repubs belonging to the

Gang of twelve are going to stick to the deal they made with the Democrats.

In my opinion, and I admit not being much into politics, this deal is the least ugly of the outcomes. The filibuster as an institution remains and the most important part in my view is that a number of Republicans were able to agree with a number of Democrats. This is what it all should be about. Cooler more moderate minds in both parties are aware of the extremism taking place and they are taking charge of things, at least temporarily. That should help level off the opposing political positions. The fact is that Americans are asleep at the wheel and no amount of bad mouthing the fascist policies of the Republicans will matter. Democrats are the minority and they were and are in a loosing position no matter how things had turned out.

[mikelgb]

73. sheesh

wait to you see them try to use the filibuster... Russ is right.
Ah yes, the cooler minds of the DINOS... so refreshing... NOT. More like so expected. Always count on Joementum et al to sour your day.

[wildwww2]

25. Where was that logic when you gave us Asskkkroft Russ?

He could have stood up to these fascist way back then. Even though AG is not a lifetime appointment. He bent over for evil. And now is criticizing his compadres for doing the same damn thing in a slightly different context. We are screwed and Russ helped. In my opinion. If they want to show me real guts. Stand together against these fascist bitches and bastards and don`t give and inch to these election stealing pile of trash repukes. I won`t be holding my breath on that ever happening.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[JNelson6563]

26. Russ, refreshingly honest

Breath of fresh air after reading all the spin here on DU.

Julie

[undeterred]

27. Thank you, Russ Feingold.

[CWebster]

28. Thank you Russ Feingold!

and thank our lucky stars you are there.

After witnessing "The Nation" stoop to pimp for Hillary (including quotes from New Democrats rationalizing IWR as good political strategy, you made my day!

[Vinca]

29. I agree with Senator Feingold.

Anyone who believes this agreement will prevent the Republicans from instituting the "nuclear" option in the future is mistaken. The only reason this episode ended was the report of sinking poll numbers for all members of the Senate. This wasn't compromise, it was self preservation. The judges in question do not mean the end of the world, but they don't mean the end of a Republican power grab either.

[OneTwentyoNine]

30. I'll totally agree with Feingold on this one....

Republicans LOVED the filibuster rule when CLINTON was in office,they used it often. NOW its a bad,horrible thing for the Murikan people to watch. BULL FUCKING SHIT....

This is a power grab plain and simple.

[ananda]

31. thank you Feingold!

No, this is not a good deal.. for anyone!

I wonder what Dean has to say about this.

Sue

[usregimechange]

32. By the way we have a Feingold DU group, check it out!

[CTyankee]

33. Am I the only one

who thought there was something bizarre about the announcement that the Supreme Court was taking up an abortion case in the fall when, as has been pointed out, we probably will have a vacancy on the Court?
The timing on that one, on the eve of the filibuster showdown, had to be planned, IMHO. Does anyone else see a "coincidence?"

[chicagiana]

59. Don't worry about that ...

The Pukes are too smart to appoint an anti-choice justice. They've been riding that red-herring for decades.

The WORST thing that could EVER happen to the GOP is Roe vs Wade being overturned. Then all those hypocritical GOP women would be forced to live in their own shit. Things would turn VERY badly for the GOP once coat hanger abortions came back in style.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

37. Absolutely right

This just made a Feingold supporter out of me. I hope he goes for it in '08.

The Democrats, once again, bent over, and all this so-called "agreement" does is lubricate them for the next go-round.

Where is the outrage? Where is the leadership? Where is the solidarity?

Anyone who thinks any kind of Democratic victory can be gleaned from this lambasting isn't seeing the whole picture. Frist, Rove, Cheney, and company just danced the Senate around to their own, power-mad tune, and the Democrats let them lead the whole way, even as they pulled up our prom dress and bent us over the car hood.

And, the whole time, people are being murdered in Iraq. But, the headlines trumpet some palaver about a Senate deal.

Whaleshit.

[sadiesworld]

40. Well. at least SOMEONE gets it.

We got the three worst judges and agreed not to filibuster, except under "extraordinary" circumstances. If these three aren't "extraordinary" enough to filibuster, who or what will be?! No one and nothing.

The People of this country want someone to stand up to this administration and For Them.

The democrats once again Betrayed the People of this country.

Next stop: A hideous "compromise" on SS. Or perhaps a draft to support a new military action, supported by the usual DINO suspects (because we're at war ,you see).

[freebrew]

93. It wasn't the Dems that betrayed the country..

it's the Rethugs. They are the spineless assholes that won't stand against the leader of their party regardless of the actions of the thieves. They are the ones that do not represent their constituency. The Dems are in the minority. They have little power. Some are most definately spineless as well. But it's the Rs that are the villains. Don't lose sight of that.

[sadiesworld]

100. Sorry, I expect more from dems than from repugs.

The dems had the power to stand united and show the repugs to be the extremists they are. They had the will of the people behind them. Yet, they folded once again.

But hey, welcome to DU--you'll fit in well with the cheerleading contingency!

[Boo Boo]

41. This is pretty much how I feel. /nt

[sellitman]

44. Russ is right on.

This deal stinks to high heaven.

[BlueManDude]

45. We gave them 3 judges in exchange for a promise...

that they won't beat us up now and will play nice in the future.

I would prefer they had "gone nuke".

[demo dutch]

86. Yep! the WH announced it's very pleased with the deal!

[BlueManDude]

94. Bush and RW agenda are the big winners here.

Frist loses because he looks like weeny - but who really cares about that? In addition Bush is probably happy that Frist looks bad since he's probably supporting someone else in 2008 anyway.

[dansolo]

109. Of course they are

They don't care about the judges that the fundies want. This was all about getting Owen on the bench. All of the others were red herrings. She was the one that they wanted the most.

[leftofthedial]

48. Russ is basically right. The bullies won in a sense

It's like the fascist repuke bullies were demanding the Dems' lunch money. Instead of the whole five bucks, they got "only" a buck or two.

What's wrong with this picture?

[Larkspur]

49. I'm with Russ. This deal sucks or just shows how impotent Dems are

The Dems and the American people will be the big losers. Repukes and corporations will be the big winners. Theocrats will be winners too.

[chicagiana]

60. Corpratists are bigger winners ..

The GOP is about as religious as Jim Baker. The CORPORATE agenda is what they're really pushing. The religion is just a smokescreen.

This is Germany all over again. This time, the Bush's are financing changes at home rather than changes abroad.

[ClintonTyree]

51. No truer words have ever been spoken......

the only "victory" here is for bush's radical agenda. I can't believe the number of Democrats that are buying into this "victory" farce. These are the Dems that weaken our party, are always ready to "compromise" rather than fight. This is why we keep on losing elections. We'd rather run away from a fight than get our nose bloodied. We'll NEVER regain control of America with this attitude.

[DemocracyInaction]

52. Russ forgets that Repubs stood up to Bush and Repubs bullying

As Ron Browstein of LA Times said today---they sent Bush a message that they are sick of being pressured to go along with all his extremist agenda items. And I hate to tell Russ, but had we gone the distance, we THE MINORITY would have lost across the board: ie., all judicial nominees to every court PLUS they would have eventually had the country hating us for "stalling Senate/the people's" business as we went into hissy fit mode in retaliation.

[CWebster]

53. They delivered a win for Bush by getting his nominees

without Dem opposition, putting a catch 22 on the filibuster option--and appearing moderate in the process.

[chicagiana]

62. And then ...

... and then after telling them how sick we are of their constant bullying, we gave them our lunch money and promised to give our lunch money for the rest of this congress.

Yeah, that was a victory.

The Democrats need some serious Karate lessons.

[CanOfWhoopAss]

70. It worked for Newt's "Contract with America" crowd. (nt)

[Callboy]

56. its like saying someone robbed your house

but it is still illegal so thats good....

[Boo Boo]

64. Yeah, or that you worked out a compromise

with the robbers to keep some of your stuff.

Or a bully stealing your lunch money and working out a compromise to split it with him, and then signing an agreement to continue doing so.

[Ysolde]

63. I totally agree with Russ.

This was ridiculous! It is a sell-out. I disagree that the Dems would have lost if the Rethugs had tried the nuclear option. I'm not convinced they would have won the vote and if they had, they would have lost Congress! This was another example of the DLC Dems thinking of themselves and not of their constituency. I wish there was another party that we could join as I'm so sick of the "leadership" of this party!

:puke:

[JRob]

71. Frist has ALREADY stated that he'll go back to the well...

This isn't over. This is a bullshit deal and we should have stood our ground and fought it all the way...

Both Bush and Frist were very cavalier about the entire issue in public statements this morning.

[IndianaGreen]

113. Frist is quoted in a story posted in LBN saying precisely that

Frist is ready to invoke nuclear option on the two judges not covered by agreement:

Senate Majority Leader Frist will file for cloture on President Bush’s nomination of William Myers to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals later this week, according to sources on and off Capitol Hill, wasting no time in testing the resolve of 14 Republican and Democratic senators who forced at least a temporary halt to the battle over Democratic filibusters of President Bush’s judicial picks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1497550

[JRob]

116. he a very scary guy

[EndElectoral]

72. In agreement with Russ..I'm sure Boxer feels the same way

[dad]

106. Actually no

I read a statement from Boxer on another thread. She is happy with the compromise. So Feingold moves up a notch, Boxer down a little in my book.

[bloom]

76. I'm surprised

more DUers don't see it this way.

I saw the Republicans on Cspan today - with their signs on the microphones saying something like "FAIR - up or down votes". And framing it as the Democrats being unreasonable - not the Republicans trying to take all the power.

[Bill Todd]

115. Well, perhaps it's half-empty/half-full kind of situation

... since I'm surprised that as many agree with Russ as seem to.

I left DU around a year ago because demanding something significant from Kerry in return for supporting him (he never delivered, so I acted accordingly) did not seem to be appreciated by the management here (or by a distressing percentage of self-styled 'liberals' and 'progressives' on the forum). Is this thread representative of the kind of significant awakening of the membership that I hoped Kerry's loss (plus, of course, the further Democratic losses in both House and Senate) might produce, or have I just stumbled upon an anomalously encouraging topic (perhaps I'll take a bit of a look around myself, but overall impressions from people who have kept up over time would be useful)?

(Oh, yeah: just to make sure I say something directly related to the topic, I agree with Russ - and with many of the other statements here in the same vein, especially those relating to spinelessness and/or near-terminal myopia - 100%.)

- bill

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

79. I agree with Ross

I wish the Dems had more spines. But I also think the deal can't be all bad if the likes of Dobson and Frist are not happy with it

[CWebster]

82. The problem with the deal is

It wasn't a compromise--it was a concession to the Right's outrageous position.

[Eliot Spitzer 2006]

85. Russ Feingold is a political idealist

I do respect Feingold (although I think McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform is probably the biggest legislative farce in history) but I think he could use a dose of pragmatism. Don't get me wrong - somebody in the Senate needs idealism, but I tend to favor pragmatic solutions rather than idealistic dreams that are impossible to get passed.

[CWebster]

87. ahhh the purist charge.

leveled at anyone who actually stands for anything regardless of their accomplishments.

Sort of like, well you know he is just a liberal at the fringe.

[Eliot Spitzer 2006]

88. Don't misunderstand - I like Russ Feingold

It's just that sometimes I believe that we have to be pragmatic.

[mistertrickster]

90. Start saying "President Feingold." Heh.

This guy is one of the last true liberals we've got left.

[hopein08]

91. I knew Russ would come through for me!!!! n/t

[dajoki]

92. way to go russ!

i am a feingold fan. now we need more of our senators to step to the plate and express their TRUE beliefs on this matter.

[man4allcats]

95. This has always been and continues to be the problem.

Senator Feingold's statement hits the nail on the head when he states "Democrats should (my emphasis) have stood together firmly against the bullying tactics of the Republican leadership abusing their power..." It's just more of the same old crap. If you're not willing to play hardball with these guys, you lose. We have to be willing to throw decorum out the window and put the Repugs on their asses where they belong. Otherwise, it will all just be more business as usual.

[ChiciB1]

96. It's Better Than A "GOOSE EGG"

And Frist is pretty upset! Lots of callers on C-Span's Washington Journal were really ticked at the Repukes. One guy said McCain is TOAST!!

I agree, it wasn't a slam dunk and we'll have to see what the future brings, BUT I think we actually took a stand! That in itself is something that makes me more comfortable!

News out of Iraq is getting worse and I'd bet there's going to be more fall-out. Especially if Pat Roberts keeps shooting off his mouth!

So let's stay positive and HOPE FOR LOTS MORE!

[chicagiana]

102. McCain came out smelling like Roses ...

McCain just positioned himself a LOT closer to a Republican nomination in 08. He led a coalition that stopped the Senate from going into meltdown. He preserved the business cycle.

McCain came out of this smelling like a rose. The disputed nomination will presumably go through WITHOUT the Republicans doing something WILDLY unpopular.

[ChiciB1]

108. Did You Happen To Catch Washington Journal This AM!

They weren't too happy with him. Plus he's getting up there in age. I'm glad he was a voice of reason, but Freaks don't like him.

But then maybe mainstream Repukes will take a look.

[chicagiana]

112. Washington runs on $$$$$

It doesn't matter what the right wing freakazoids think. McCain preserved the business cycle. He did the corpratists a HUGE favor.

He will have the financial backing in a couple years.

[Lowell]

98. Not a good deal

Again the Democratic leadership just rolls over. The vote they cast was only 18 against. I think they are just saying the words and bending over. I think they should have made this a dirty fight. Filibuster or make them change the rules. Then watch the backlash. In a couple years, after these scumbags have shown their real colors and another party is in the majority, then impeach everyone of them.

[ClarkUSA]

99. 17 Democrats and Jim Jeffords voted against ending debate on Owens

"Seventeen Democrats and the Senate's lone independent, Senator James Jeffords of Vermont, all firm opponents of Justice Owen, voted today to continue debate on the nomination. Besides Mr. Jeffords, those voting "no" were Senators Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, Barbara Boxer of California, Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, Paul S. Sarbanes of Maryland, Edward M. Kennedy and John Kerry of Massachusetts, Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, Jon Corzine and Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey, Mark Dayton of Minnesota, Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, Jack Reed of Rhode Island, Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray of Washington and Russell D. Feingold of Wisconsin. (Daniel K. Inouye of Hawaii did not vote.)"

<snip>

"We have kept the Republic," said Senator Robert C. Byrd, Democrat of West Virginia, who had fought the rules change as an abuse of Senate traditions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/24/politics/24cnd-judge.html?hp&ex=1116993600&en=bc6f87011187a779&ei=5094&partner=homepage

BTW, the religious rightwingnuts are howling that the Republicans backed down:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1804061

[dajoki]

110. good for the 17

besides these 17 senators, where are the rest of them who have been opposing these judges for years now? they have been called unqualified, conservitive activists and much more. have these three judges become qualified overnight? are they no longer activists? the rest of these senators just betrayed thier own beliefs for political expedience, and sold us out in the process.

[Zorra]

114. Thanks for the list, I was just about to search for it.

:hi:

[LuPeRcALiO]

105. I'm with Feingold

It kinda looks like all this deal did was avoid a confrontation that would have either produced the same result (bad judges seated) or a better one (defeat of the rule change), but would have exposed Frist as the demagogue most Americans are starting to suspect he is, at least according to polls.

In other words it turned a win-win into a lose-lose.

[Clarkie1]

107. I agree with Boxer: "America won last night."

We need more leaders like Senator Boxer!

[Paradise]

118. I agree with Senator Feingold.

IMO, what we actually did was to give the repukes a "Hail Mary Pass".
This should have had an up or down vote, and let the chips fall, upon the Senators, where they may...
We gained very little, if anything, and lost a great deal. They gained a great deal, and lost very little, if anything. Like I said, that's just my opinion. :think:

[Pryderi]

119. NO COMPROMISE ON SCOTUS!!!!!!!!!

MAKE THEM USE THE NUCLEAR OPTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[CWebster]

120. On C-Span(1) now. nt

[mandomom]

121. Feingold is correct.

The senate democrats have been Boltonized in the process of trying to escape being Cheneyed. Rove must be sopped in champange today.