Does this compromise kill Cat Killer in 2008?

[aldian159]

I mean, the senate went around him, and you know the fundies are gonna be pissed at him.

He promised to the Dobsonites that he wouldn't rest until he got every judge an up or down vote. Now, he looks weak because the senate went around him, and he wasn't able to help the fundies out, so he looks even weaker.

If a fringe benefit of this compromise was to derail Frist '08 before it ever got off the ground, than this deal looks better all the time.

[Birthmark]

1. It certainly hurts him.

And that's a GOOD thing! :D

[aldian159]

3. I think it hurts McCain as well

McCain will now be seen during the GOP primary as the "one who screwed us (the fundies) over" so he could possibly lose support as well.

Frist gets boned for not going nuclear, and McCain gets railed for giving in to the evil Democrats.

Looking better all the time...

[Birthmark]

4. Yup.

Those who think Dems lost something simply aren't thinking this thing through, imho.

[DURHAM D]

17. He hasn't had the repug base for many, many years. This

won't hurt him.

[aldian159]

18. True, True

But now they really hate him, so they won't hold their nose and vote for him in November if it comes to that.

The Dobsonites have spent too long being lied to by the GOP, and now they want a seat at the table. 25% of voters who voted for Bush describe themselves as "Evangelicals." In the primary, they support someone else. McCain gets the nod, they stay home.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. No, don't be fooled

Frist very smoothly said he wasn't in favor of this compromise. That takes him off the hook. It's a brilliant move.

He's good, and Rove is brilliant. This was a finesse of the highest order, and the Democrats bit.

[aldian159]

5. Still, makes him look weak

that a compromise even happened.

I see your point, and the cat rocks, but I think that Frist gets hit with this, when someone asks "Why didn't you stop it, son of God?"

But I could be wrong, I'm a little drunk...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

20. Just keep this in mind .................

Even a little drunk, you're a thousand times sharper than the sharpest Freeper...........

:toast:

[aldian159]

21. My dog is a thousand times sharper than a Freepr

and poor Eddie is old and epileptic.

But I thank you for the warm remarks...

[saltpoint]

9. OldLeftieLawyer, you may be right. I won't quarrel with the --

-- possibility that Rove is a genius and fine-tuned this. I also have no real idea, so I'm only saying it's a possibility.

I posit the equally disgusting possibility that Rove undid FRIST tonight. That he lured Frist via Dobson et al to the floor of the Senate to quash the filibuster, knowing that the fundies are SLOBBERING for far-right kooks to sit on the bench.

And then, being Rove, orchestrated the necessary movement with McCain to gather "the 14" and take Frist out at the knees. Dobson is pissed as I've ever seen him after tonight's deal.

The trigger for my scenario is that Bush/Rove felt Kerry's chances were too good against Dubya, especially if McCain was Kerry's running mate. Sure enough, Kerry asked McCain first. Shortly after, McCain said no, and then campaigned for Dubya.

In my scenario, Rove promised McCain a free path for the nomination if he would tell Kerry 'no' and campaign instead for Dubya.

I just have a strong hunch that the impetus for "the 14" involves Karl Rove, and that McCain was pre-destined to be the beneficiary.

[aldian159]

10. That's a thought that's gonna fester...

nt

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. Interesting scenario, Crusoe

I can imagine that whole script being played out, especially with the whore, McCain, in the center of it. He's been out of the spotlight for a while, and he cherishes it far too much, I think.

McCain, though, is too liberal for the rabid rightwingnuts who propel this administration. I still think Frist's their boy, and his willingness to look (temporarily) weak and undermined will only make him more adorable to those who would seek to put away people like you and me. This so-called "compromise" is nothing but a temporary easing of the pressure, and a bone to the Democrats, who - lord, this is depressing - might honestly believe something was gained here.

I am so dispirited where the Democrats are concerned. Daily, I lost faith, and I hate that.

We do agree, though, that Rove's been behind this from the beginning, and, did you notice - surprise, surprise - that there's an invasion and occupation taking place in Iraq, where we're in the process of having our collective asses handed to us?

It's all disgusting, isn't it?

[saltpoint]

25. I think the cat in your post-field has an excellent response to events.

How did you find a beer-swigging kittycat?

And how appropriate on a night when THE CAT BUTCHER is thwarted, temporarily or whatever.

I can go with Frist as the fundies' puppet, but I don't have all the info. Did Frist do the video appearance with Justice America to win their support or in acknowledgment of it? Gary Bauer seemed to be behind that event, or at least influential along its perimeters.

The Schiavo grandstanding -- Frist making a diagnosis after watching a videotape -- that was revolting. But I expect the fundies ate it up. Again -- was he trying to win support or do the bidding in a pre-arranged deal of some sort? It would be revealing to know.

Maybe -- I hope this happens -- Frist and McCain will go at each other like tigers and rip the flesh from each other's bones. McCain will prevail, let's say, and the fundies, who hate McCain as you say they do, turn to Sam Brownshirt -- I mean Brownback -- no, I mean Brownshirt -- to run a third-party Jesus-centered campaign. If McCain prevails in the early primaries, they have nowhere else to go.

I don't know. It's a murky crystal ball right now.

[spooky3]

13. Lindsey Graham specifically thanked Frist for making the agreement

possible (he thanked Reid too), due to their "hard work". Frist is not going to be able to distance himself as cleanly as he wanted, but he also isn't going to get credit from the independents and moderates (and obviously not from the lefties) who outnumber the wingnuts.

The last word I would use to describe Frist is brilliant. To date he has overplayed his hand on several occasions, and the sleeping electorate really haven't started paying attention yet. According to polls that Graham specifically mentioned, voters are getting ticked that the Senate is debating wingnut judges rather than dealing with their problems. If he continues to overplay his hand by taking hard right positions, he's going to feel a thousand cat bites in the ass.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. I hope you're right

but the ennui of the electorate is overwhelming, and Frist is just staying hard in the front of the game. Overplayed his hand? What, like in the Schiavo matter?

All the polls suggest that the Democrats ought to be slugging hard at the Republicans, but they're doing no such thing, so thugs like Frist will continue to eat us alive.

When there is no outrage, the thugs will prevail. I think Frist's still in the catbird seat.

But I do hope you're right and I'm wrong.

[spooky3]

23. My belief is that most people don't care unless an issue affects

them personally, right now. If interest rates go up, salaries stay low, gas prices climb, health care problems increase, Iraq goes on and on, etc., the bored masses will stop giving the Rethugs a pass. We saw it happen with Jimmy Carter. Whether these trends will evolve--I don't know, obviously, but I think at least some of them will.

Frist overplayed with Schiavo, and he overplayed the filibuster matter. If Frist continues to push his hardline stuff as conditions for more Americans worsen, he'll pay the price. The polls show that people are starting to move away from the Rethugs (see pollkatz for example), but I don't believe that nearly enough movement has occurred for me to have any confidence that the worm has fully turned. If I did, I would not have felt good about the compromise tonight, and instead would be siding with the DUers who think the Dems should have pushed harder to get "their way."

A brilliant (and even the not-so-brilliant) majority leader would have taken much better advantage of the power he has to consolidate Rethug gains on key issues. Instead, the Dems still have a fighting chance.

[Mojambo]

6. This deal doesn't really help the Democrats

But it soundly wounds a rapidly fracturing Republican party.

Take from that whatever comfort that you can. Like all compromises, it's a mixed bag.

We did okay, not great, but okay.

[saltpoint]

7. It wounds but doesn't kill him.

His climb to the White House, after this evening, is from much farther down and the incline is steeper.

John McCain may for all I know lose the nomination to Frist, but he ain't goin' easy.

If the fundies split their primary votes between Allen and Brownback, Frist and McCain may wind up with the most delegates. There could be a brokered convention. Who knows who would emerge from that?

[aldian159]

8. Good point

At the very least it is a major body blow to a frontrunner's campaign, and a fractured convention would be cool for the GOP for maybe a day, but after that they would look idiotic.

See the season finale of this year's West Wing, it deals with a broken convention.

[saltpoint]

11. Hi, aldian. I don't usually have the chance to see WEST WING but --

-- I would love to watch it more often. Great show. State-of-the-art script-writing for television.

Would love to see the fundies get so angry with the GOP that they would try to run one of their own. That would split the conservative vote in the country and barring unforeseen circumstances, would probably assure a Democratic victory in 08.

[aldian159]

12. If you have a fast Internet and a lot of time

I could send over all the sixth season (sans 2) over AIM. PM me if you want to know more

[saltpoint]

14. Wow, that's a generous offer, but I'm on slow dial-up on a wood-burning --

-- Mac.

Aldian, that is really generous of you and I thank you for it.

I'll get to the box set of this season by and by. But I just love those characters and those scripts.

[aldian159]

15. Not a problem

Thanks for responding to this thread in the first place.

[stevedeshazer]

16. Big time

He'll be vilified by BOTH sides now. He's toast. I'm lovin' it.

[Still_Loves_John]

24. Yes

Frist needed this to end without a compromise, whether he ended up losing the battle or winning it. If he lost he would have been a martyr, which is a strength in it's own right, and if he won he would have become a hero. The way it played out, he ended up in the worst position possible: irrelevance. He looks totally neutered now--he's supposed to be the most powerful man in the senate, but a handful of moderates made the decision for him. Not a good image for a man who wants to become president.

[aldian159]

26. Kick for the lunch crowd