How bad a screwing was the DLC compromise?

[Warren Stupidity]

[jobycom]

1. You left off "We screwed the Republicans pretty good."

C'mon, don't rig the poll. That's what Republicans do.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. "Fristians" == "republicans"

Sorry. But you could always vote for "screw you and your stupid poll" :-)

[jobycom]

3. yeah, well

I was in the mood for a smart-ass post more than a vote. :-) Happens sometimes.

[Massacure]

4. Don't know. Let's see what happens after these eight judges.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. uh-oh what does it mean if "screw you ..." wins?

I knew I should have left that off.

[LittleClarkie]

6. I don't understand spinning this as a DLC deal

Of course several of them are DLC. DLC is centrist. It was the centrists in both parties who wanted a deal the most.

To spin this as a DLC deal is not constructive.

The Fristians feel like the party just stabbed them in the back. Rejoice.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. Perhaps two of them were not DLC'ers

and I object to the description of the DLC as 'centrist'. The DLC is the right wing of the democratic party and represents corporatism free trade and neocon interests.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. oh and I worded the poll to be light-hearted

so lighten up already. If you object to the poll pick "screw you". If you think it was a fair compromise try "equally screwed".

[LittleClarkie]

16. To be on the right side of the left but the left side of the right

make one centrist. Your analysis cuts off the entire right side of the spectrum. To be the right wing of the Dem Party still puts you to the left of the Republicans.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. The DLC is not centrist.

They are rightwing. They may not be as far to the right as the extreme right of the republican party, but they are pretty far right. Actually right/left are insufficient here for this discussion. The DLC is in cahoots with one of the three major factions of the fascist cabal that is running this country. That would be the corporatist faction. The other factions are the american taliban and the neocon imperialists. The corporatists and the neocons overlap so separating them into two distinct groups is an exercise in futility. But I digress.

The DLC is part of the problem. Their leadership is typified by this latest compromised blunder.

[LittleClarkie]

23. Two questions: Does Clinton typify the DLC?

Do you consider Clinton to be right wing?

[Warren Stupidity]

33. lets see

big on welfare reform 'ending welfare as we know it': check.
neocon supporter: check
big on frying criminals: check
big on the War on Some Drugs: check
healthcare reform rather than universal healthcare: check
free trade rather than fair trade: check
big on No Child's Behind Left train 'em to test bullshit: check

Now there are issue where the DLC is not rightwing, at least nominally:

environmental issues: centrist
women's rights: centrist
affirmative action: centrist

And other issues where they prefer to not take a stand:
gay rights

Yes Clinton and the DLC are the rightwing of the Democratic Party and are not, in general, moderates or centrists. As the radical republican party keeps moving the bar ever further towards overt fascism indeed the DLC can appear *relatively* moderate, but they aren't.

[mmonk]

7. For the Dems,

it's pretending to win when you lost. The repubs still claim they will use the "nuclear" option if the Dems "abuse" the filibuster. Pure bullying to get your way, nothing less.

[LittleClarkie]

17. The ones spinning this as a win the most

are the freepers. We're not pretending anything. Frist just let down his base in a big way. Woo hoo!

[FubarFly]

9. It's too soon to tell.

But if history is any indicator, I'd advise investing in a quality lube.

[Kolesar]

10. DLC? WTF?

I didn't see Al Frum up there at the lectern.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. Joementum EOM

[demwing]

11. Talk About Your Push-Polls /nt

[saltpoint]

13. Political analysts at week's end are going to tab this one as a win for us

Dems win. They stop Frist, which means they slow Dobson, and McCain draws first blood in the GOP race instead of THE CAT BUTCHER, who was Dobson's pawn.

We're in this position in the first place because we lost the Senate. Now let's work to get it back.

I heard reports that Elizabeth Dole went out to Nebraska to smear Ben Nelson. Does anyone have a confirmation on that? I don't like that woman in the first place, and as pathetic as Nelson can be sometimes, he's at least nominally a Democrat and we get his vote about 50% of the time. As Kos pointed out, "50 % of Nelson is better than a 100% of" whatever nutcase Republican they run against him.

If perfection is your inflexible standard, tonight's deal will frustrate you. If you consider that Dobson is soiling his drawers right now, and Frist is weakened, the climate looks better for Democrats.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. I consider the appointment of three shitheads with more to follow

a bit of a victory. Now lete me see which side won here. Hmmmm......

[LittleClarkie]

18. What appointment?

Not a done deal. They have NOT been voted on yet.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. oh ok right sorry

the vote hasn't happened yet and some of the three might DIE before then, what with all the threats against activist judges etc.

[Mass]

26. Do you seriously expect Rep. senators not to vote for them?

and even a few Democrats.

[LittleClarkie]

27. I'm waiting to see

I'm just pointing out that it hasn't come to pass yet. Some are talking as if it has.

[pgh_dem]

35. There isn't a single instance of compassion, fairness or

rationality on the part of the Republicans.

"It" came to pass the moment they agreed to that stupid deal. The only thing that can stop it is Reid and/or Frist telling them to shove it.

Unfortunately, the deal doesn't hurt Frist at all. It preserves the nutcases' ability to nuke the senate again later on, and places an impossibly vague burden of proof on Senate Dems to prove 'extraordinary' circumstances for future use of the filibuster. None of them on either side cared all that much about Owens, Brown et al. They wanted an easy Supreme Court approval for an asshole like Scalia, and they just got it.

[saltpoint]

20. They were shitheads prior to tonight's deal and we didn't have the votes -

-- in the Senate to stop them, SAVE for the filibuster. Those were the limits going into this evening that Reid had to work with.

You and I didn't impose those limits, but Reid has to work with what he has, not with what I personally WANT for the Senate as a legislative body.

I also think it's a very good guess that Frist proceeded on this parliamentarian effort at the behest of James Dobson. Dobson IMMEIDATELY issued a press statement calling the 7 Republican "moderates" "betrayers."

Specifically, Dobson said this:

This Senate agreement represents a complete bailout and betrayal by a cabal of Republicans and a great victory for united Democrats. Only three of President Bush’s nominees will be given the courtesy of an up-or-down vote, and it's business as usual for all the rest. The rules that blocked conservative nominees remain in effect, and nothing of significance has changed. Justice Clarence Thomas, Justice Antonin Scalia, and Chief Justice William Rehnquist would never have served on the U. S. Supreme Court if this agreement had been in place during their confirmations. The unconstitutional filibuster survives in the arsenal of Senate liberals.

[Kolesar]

24. Theocratic poseur leaders like to tell their flock they are oppressed

Dobson is not going to say anything like this was progress or a reasonable compromise. Creeps like him want to stoke an ember of persecution and loss within the psyche of each of their followers. shameful!

[saltpoint]

29. It is shameful, and you're right about that strategy. If I hear the --

-- phrase "persecution of Christians" from the right one more time, I'm going to set up my own Christian-Lion fights in the back yard, starting next weekend.

[davepc]

39. What was going to keep them from getting confirmed ANYWAYS?

If the republicans blew up the Senate they STILL were getting confirmed.

We did not EVER have the votes to stop them from getting confirmed.

Moderate Republicans sold out their leadership to keep the filibuster and throw their weight around (meaning have some actual SAY) during the next SCOTUS appointments.

The moderate Republicans were sick of getting steamrolled by Frist and Bush and backed into positions they didn't agree with.

The moderate wing of the GOP has drawn a line in the sand AGAINST the far right wing of their party.

People who want all or nothing usually wind up with the later.

Frist got outmaneuvered by people in his own party.

Get him some Viagra, he's impotent.

[Zhade]

42. So explain to me what happens next time.

You know, when the Dems exercise the "extraordinary circumstances" clause for the first time, and the Republicans threaten the nuclear option once more.

Will "centrists" again have to cut a deal to prevent the loss of the filibuster?

How many times can they cut deals before b*s* gets everything he wants?

[Warren Stupidity]

43. Sorry but I don't see it that way.

Either way the republicans get all of their nominations. This way they look like reasonable people working together with the 'opposition party'. The other way they looked like intolerant immature radical asshats who, when they couldn't win by the rules, changed the rules, and had to break the rules to change them.

So we lose on the nominations and we lose on the preception of what just happened. Quite a deal.

There is no moderate wing of the rethuglican party. We were just out-maneuvered once again.

[davepc]

45. The republicans are not some monolithic bloc

They are just as much a coalition of different interests as we are, and the non religious fundamentalists/4th and 5th amendment supporters just told the white house and frist to FUCK OFF.

We open a crack in the party, yet somehow they got the better of us. yeah. right.

[Fovea]

22. At best, we got Frist to take a step back

and get Rove further on board.
At worst, we gave them time to kill a few moderate republicans metaphorically or literally.

Watch it happen.

[Mass]

25. Sorry but Byrd signed on that.

and he is not DLC.

[bvar22]

32. Here's the list:

Joe Lieberman--DLC

Ben Nelson---DLC

Mary Landrieu---DLC

Mark Pryor---DLC

Ken Salazar---no DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus)100

Kent Conrad---No DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus)97.5

Robert Byrd---No DLC listing, PHenry rating -(minus) 60

These are the MOST conservative PRO-CORPORATE anti LABOR Democratic Senators in Washington DC.
Did they serve YOU, or their Corporate Masters?


I love Robert Byrd and he is NOT DLC, but he commonly votes in favor of Corporate Interests, like the Bankruptcy Bill.

[Mass]

41. I do not disagree with you

I am mad at the deal. I am just contesting the DLC lable the OP gave to the deal.

[Chicago Democrat]

28. Extremists on both sides (note: that includes myself and you)

are screwed.

It would have best for extreme liberals if the nuke option was used for the 2006 elections. I don't see how this is bad for Frist.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. so if it ain't bad for frist

then how did "Extremists on both sides " get screwed? I see how we got screwed. I fail to see how they got screwed.

[bvar22]

30. The Working Americans and poor got the royal screwing...

...AGAIN!!

The RICH Corporate Owners got everything they wanted today...
...AGAIN!!

[dajoki]

31. we were sold out

everybody's claiming victory.http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/23/politics/23cnd-judges.html?ex=1117512000

[genius]

36. We need to dump Reid.

I realize that Mormon's are nice people but they believe that blacks and the disabled were bad angels and that their punishment is being black or disabled. It's part of the religion.

[LuPeRcALiO]

37. if we had public opinion on our side we could have done better

than this. It looks like they just postponed the showdown.

Not good, because it might not be on our side next time.

[Cynot]

38. Who would replace Reid?

??

[foo_bar]

40. he'd be replaced by conventional wisdom on the internet

That's where all the brilliant electoral strategies come from.

[CWebster]

44. The usual screwing by the usual suspects.

Same as it ever was.

[Cynot]

46. I'm not entirely sure what to think yet.

The Freepers are screaming about it. I heard that Limbaugh went ballistic about it, and Dobson says he has been betrayed. But then I read comments from my hero Senator Feingold who said that this was not a good compromise and I put that together with seeing the likes of Janice Brown being put on the federal bench and I'm just not sure what to think.

[zann725]

47. When you can't know how bad you've been screwed, shouldn't ask!

What is that phrase, "Don't ask, don't tell."

This is NOT a "compromise" except in double-speak.