There's an old saying... If both sides in a comprimise feel that they

[merwin]

lost, then it was a good comprimise. I completely agree with that.

Discuss.

[deadparrot]

1. I agree.

We're in a vacuum on DU, obviously, so I don't think we're able to look at the big picture as easily.

[merwin]

4. Yeah. The pendulum on the board is swung way to the left here :-)

[merwin]

5. self-delete

[Eloriel]

16. I disagree. There's a MUCH higher standard, and it's usually

referred to as: win/win situation.

Of course, when one side isn't interested in negotiating at all (not "negotiating in good faith"), when that side simply wants the whole magilla without any interference from the other side, when they're brutes and thugs for whom allowing "the opposition" to come away with anything is a failure, it's kinda hard to even consider giving them some "wins" since the resulting compromises are typically too like pyrrhic victories for us.

:shrug:

I dunno. I'm just sick and tired of always losing, losing, losing, losing, losing. This to me is another loss, tho one that at least had some meat tossed to us as we went down.

[deadparrot]

19. IMO, the fact that we're currently in the minority means that

we can't expect to have too many win-win situations.

No, this is deal is far from perfect. I admit that.

But if people were expecting us to come out of these negotiations with all the perks on our side, then they was no way they were going to be satisfied.

For all the deal's flaws, we kept the filibuster. Reid is a good guy who fought like hell to keep it, and I'm positive that he will use it when it's needed. He's shown himself to be an effective leader in the past, and I'm choosing to trust him on this.

[punpirate]

2. That may be an old saying...

... but, it's not true. If both sides feel they won--that's a good compromise, and one more likely to stand the test of time.

If both sides feel they've lost, they'll work to try to get around the compromise at the first possible opening to do so.

[merwin]

7. It's a glass half empty/full situation. Yes, we lost some. But so did they

A comprimise means that nobody gets their way entirely. We wanted 100% our way, they wanted 100% theirs. There's no way to have both. Therefore, any comprimise will mean that both sides lose. But, it also means that both sides won, in some ways.

[punpirate]

8. Ah, but that's not what you said at first...

... is it?

What I'm saying is born out by lots of research in conflict resolution. And, mark my words, if Frist is unhappy with this (and he is), he'll be looking for a way to get around this agreement at the first opportunity.

It's my guess that, within six months of the 2006 elections, this deal is going to look like a gigantic con job perpetrated on the Dems--largely because of what Frist will do to finally get his way.

Cheers.

[Langis]

3. I wish we would have voted....

But at least Frist come out looking weak, and we come out looking rational.

[ananda]

6. sucks

This compromise totally sucks.

And it's not good for anyone. The big losers are the American people, who have simply sat by and allowed the system of checks and balances to go to shreds.

I'm so sad.

Sue

[Soup Bean]

9. The President and his minions were just rebuked by most of the Senate.

That's not a bad thing. The Democratic Party is not in a majority position. The Republicans MAY have been able to execute the "nuclear" option, which would have been really bad for the country.

The Senate would have to go back to reading the phone book for days on end to filibuster. At least this way, most people will look for common sense in the judicial nominations. I don't want far left OR far right nominees.

The Senate is supposed to represent ALL the people. That's why it was created, to slow things to a crawl. If we in the center or left of center are unable to convince the general public that we are right, we lose. That's just the way it is. You can't force someone to believe you're right every single time.

Compromise is never perfect, but this is a much better sign than what I've been seeing out of our Nation's Capitol for a long time now.

Thank God for Senator Byrd, the conscience of the Senate. Thank God for Senator Warner. Thank God for real leaders, for real human beings.

[housewolf]

14. The most hopeful thing to come out of this, imo

is the commitment from both sides to consult with each other and try to consult with the admin to get more reasonable nominations sent up, individuals who are more acceptable and not so extreme.

[housewolf]

13. I disagee with you .. I think the big loser if Frist

He's had a pack of rabid dogs barking outside his window day and night, waiting for him to throw the bones of the Dems out the window to them, getting us out of the way. He promised he'd get their extremist judges through and he can't deliver now. His base is still blood-thirsty and they're not satisfied. He's in trouble and we're still standing, even though we had to give up something.

[ET Awful]

10. Exactly what I was thinking :)

When both sides are pissed, the middle is usually happy which means a decent compromise.

Would I be happier if we had won a complete victory instead of a compromise? Yup.

Am I disappointed by this outcome? Not really.

[WilliamPitt]

11. Freepers *and* DUers pissed

means the extremists at both ends of the spectrum, who demand battles to the death in all things, did not get what they wanted.

I see this as a good thing. Sorry about that.

[merwin]

15. Exactly! That's what I've been trying to articulate, and just couldn't

find the right words for it. Thank you for that :-)

[CWebster]

21. Not a fair comparison

When one side is seeking to wield complete power and the other is fighting just to stay afloat.

It doesn't help when those on our side--especially the spokesman, suggest that this is a fair or even playing field--or that the Left is at an extreme pole when the center has been shifted so far to the Right--even though our positions on the issues more closely reflect mainstream concerns.

[CWebster]

22. what I have a problem with

Is that I am not so sure the Dems who brokered this deal always act in the best interests of party mission or identity --and may even work at cross purposes to the Feingold-Kennedy-Boxer-Harkin-Durbin faction of the party.

[NC_Nurse]

12. I like this old saying, basically the same

but funnier:

"A good compromise leaves everybody mad."

My husband always says that and it cracks me up.

I think this one fits. I'm not sure if it's good or bad. I will wait and see.

[kodi]

17. don't want to piss on anyone's roses, but its a move in a bigger game

that's all. call it tours and charles martel if you want and declare it the high water mark for extremist executive power grabs or call it munich and chamberlin.

whatever, the sun rises tomorrow and the game remains to be played. we know the full measure of our opponents. they reach for any advantage, regarding both tradition and common sense as superfluous in pursuit of their agenda.

in every single public issue they will attempt to further their aims by manipulating the systems by which decisions will be made.

and they ain't done yet.

reload, they're coming back at us.

[Dr Fate]

18. I dont trust Democrats who trust the men who lied to us about WMDs.

They lied us into this war- I dont trust them, and I dont trust people who actually think they will abide by any compromise.

They are liars and criminals- they have no intention of doing a thing for us.

[tavalon]

20. It may be old

but it isn't correct. If both sides in a compromise feel that they lost then both sides in a compromise feel that they lost.

Logical fallacy. Sorry to pick on you since Will Pitt's also been trotting this one out but I wanted this one out on the table. It's been bugging me.

[sendero]

23. What a ridiculous fallacy...

... if this so-called "compromise" was binding in any way, you might have a point.

It isn't - it was intentionally designed to not be - and the Nuclear option is no more dead than I am.

Really, the utter naivete of so many around here I find astounding. Do you REALLY THINK that suddenly the right is going to appoint a moderate to the SCOTUS? Do you REALLY? Where have you been for 5 years?