Why didn't Dean mention the memo on Meet The Press?

[cestpaspossible]

transcript

[Carolab]

1. Other: They'd have jumped on him for it.

Since it hasn't been discussed other than on KO's show, he may not have wanted to bring it up and get into a discussion that would leave his answer dangling out there for out-of-context replay and endless beatings by the talking heads.

[cestpaspossible]

3. Yeah that would suck if Dean stuck his neck out. He better play it safe.

</sarcasm>
I really don't think cowardice is the reason.

[Carolab]

5. Well, how about this?

Since NONE of the other leaders in the Dem party have uttered a word, perhaps there was an agreement NOT to bring it up?

And WHO would be selling that strategy and why?

[tavalon]

10. DLC

DLC, DLC.........................

[Clark2008]

6. Clark debated Perle on it on CNN today.

Of course, no one covers real news like Keith Olbermann, but Clark did get in a swing at the Bush Administration regarding the memo today.

He said that the Memo clearly shows that the Bush Administration had made its mind up to go to war, no matter what further investigation into the issue of WMDs would reveal.

[Cha]

2. Who the hell knows..

I can't read friggin minds.

[ClassWarrior]

4. Because WE haven't been LOUD ENOUGH about it yet.

Call the DNC TOMORROW and demand to know why Dean was silent on this matter today.

Never Give Up.

[MADem]

7. A smart DNC head CONTROLS THE MESSAGE

Voters do not give a shit about the memo, that may be hard to take, but they don't. The filibuster is NEAR TERM, Social Security is NEAR TERM, Tom Delay is NEAR TERM...

If he gets all esoteric, they'll call it a scream redux. We are IN the fucking war, the time to talk about the memo is at the IMPEACHMENT hearings, and we have a ways to go before we get to that.

[creeksneakers2]

8. Other

It looked like Dean had a list of messages to get out, and that wasn't on it. A two minute answer isn't long enough to explain the memos.

[leftofthedial]

9. TimmyWhore took it off the table

some sort of agreement on what not to discuss

[MadisonProgressive]

48. I agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Dr Fate]

58. Suuure. I'll bet he was holding a gun to Dean from under the table.

Or perhaps a remote control wired to Dean's jaw.

Dean WOULD have brought it up, but "Timmy would not let him."

Yeah- it's TIMMYS fault that Dean could not specifically bring this up- suuuure it is.

[Placebo]

11. He's a fool.

Dean's first months have been less than great, and that's a kind description. Major verbal slip-ups, botching his first major national media appearance, extremely poor fundraising, preaching to the choir while the republicans are evangelizing and making inroads with minorities on all fronts, pursing some misguided unproven strategy of winning back the Red states by just "showing up and talking."

Ugh, I hope our party can survive.

[Carolab]

13. Trust me, you will one day eat those words. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

20. I agree

I don't think you go into the deep South to "preach to the choir."

He's still on his honeymoon with me. I wait to see what he does. 2006 will be a small test. 2008 a big one.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Fate]

73. It would have taken Dean 15 seconds to bring up the memo.

We are not asking him to move mountains- just a 15 second soundbyte that would have taken the GOP all week to split hairs over.

And you are right, Hillary, Kerry, Reid etc also refuse to back up the base and Conyers concerning this memo- but that does not excuse Dean.

[Fovea]

12. Fear of a Rovian trap

After CBS, Newsweeek, etc, it takes a lot of proof for a pol to unzip his fly.

So the WH is not commenting and denying it yet. He fears they will, and in a way to make him outlaw for siding with the memo.

I think that eventually the pile on will happen. But only once they see the blood in the water.

Someone will have to go first from the media bordello.

[snowbear]

14. Other: What a LAME poll.

BTW.. I live in Anchorage, Alaska.. a red state because it's all about oil here. OIL, OIL, OIL.

There are far more Independents here than any other political party, but they won't vote for a Democratic president unless he or she is pro-drilling. :shrug:

Still.. the local nightly news was just on, and they had nothing but EXCELLENT things to say about Dr. Dean's appearance on MTP. :headbang:

I didn't get a chance to watch MTP today, but I've read a ton of comments about it on here.

Even our nightly news here in a RED state had nothing but praise about what Dean had to say.

Kudos to them. And down with this ridiculous poll :thumbsdown:

[CarolNYC]

15. I didn't get to see it either....

but I talked to my Mom, who's as Dem as they come and who did see it, and she thought he did great.

[Carolab]

17. You can watch it on-line and read the transcript.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608

Also, it repeats on MSNBC at 9 PM and 1 AM Eastern.

[CarolNYC]

26. thanks....

I'm of the practically obsolete "cableless/dial-up" persons so the viewing options are a little tough for me. :(

Will read the transcript, though....

[cestpaspossible]

16. Ok, but why do you think Dean didn't mention the memo?

I'll cede your point that my poll is lame as well as your implied point that I am an asshole. Granting that, why do you think Dean didn't mention the memo?

[sendero]

19. Because..

... despite what a gaggle of fuckwits around here seem to think, the memo is hearsay, is vaguely worded, and only mentions what everybody in Washington and half the country already knew.

Is that a good enough explanation, because you seem to have forgotten that one in your push poll.

[LittleClarkie]

18. Kerry hasn't mentioned it either

Why aren't you including him in your questioning?

Or Reid? He's the Minority Leader.

Or Boxer the fearless? Has she been bribed? Is she ignorant? Is she incompetent?

I don't know what the memo will end up meaning. I suspect it tells us something we all already knew. Kerry said it over and over. We were misled into war. It's powerful evidence of that. But what does it change really? I just don't understand that.

But why single out Dean. None of them are talking about it, only the Representatives. And I always feel like they are free in the House because the minority doesn't have any power anyway, so they just let loose with nothing to lose. But even Pelosi is mum.

[cestpaspossible]

21. Kerry was on Meet the Press? do you have a link to the transcript?

[LittleClarkie]

22. Here you go

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6886726/

[cestpaspossible]

23. Gee, that's from January 30th. How was Kerry supposed to know back then

about the memo? Is he clairvoyant or something?

[LittleClarkie]

25. I said none of our leaders have said anything re: the memo

I didn't say "None of our leaders have said anything on Meet the Press re: the memo." None of them have said anything period. There's nothing magical about MTP.

But you asked for a link, because apparently you were unaware that Kerry was on MTP. So there you go.

[cestpaspossible]

28. Yeah, what you said is totally meaningless, I agree.

Kerry didn't talk about the memo when he appeared on MTP on January 30th, just as Mike Mansfield didn't talk about it when he appeared on MTP back in the sixties and seventies. That's true, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with Dean's appearance on MTP today.

[LittleClarkie]

32. I. said. that. Kerry. hasn't. mentioned. it. either.

I. never. mentioned. Meet. the. Fucking. Press.

None of our leaders have mentioned it. That was my point.

[cestpaspossible]

35. Yeah but Kerry hasnt appeared on Meet the Press or any other similar venue

since the memo came out.. I guess if the facts of the real world and the reality that there is a past, present, and future don't matter to you, than that fact is irrelevant.

But back to the topic.. Why do you think Dean didn't mention it in his Meet the Press appearance today? Let's just say for the sake of argument that Kerry is a stealth Republican who has been plotting with Bush since his Skull and Bones days to destroy America....whatever, I don't see what that has to do with the question... Why do you think Dean didn't mention the memo in his Meet the Press appearance today?

[LittleClarkie]

39. Why did Dean not mention a dozen things he could have?

Maybe Russert didn't ask him a question about it.

But then I didn't tune in with a preconceived notion of what Dean absolutely HAD to talk about or I wouldn't love him anymore. The memo is not the litmus test for me that it is for others.

[cestpaspossible]

40. Like what? Is there something else or is your question a red herring?

All I did was ask why you thought Dean did not mention it. You seem to be objecting to the question, although I don't really understand the grounds for the objection. I like Dean and I think he is in the perfect spot for his skills as DNC chair. That doesn't mean his performance can't be critiqued. I thought he did excellent on MTP with this one glaring omission. There even was an opening for him to mention it when Russert asked him where Bush had lied us into Iraq. Dean really fumbled that which should have been his strong point. I say this not to bury Dean but in the hopes that he will do better on his next appearance. Please don't mistake this as Dean-bashing.

[LittleClarkie]

42. Sorry, your poll says something different

None of the choices make it clear that you like Dean and think he's doing a good job. If you thought that, why would you suggest he's on the take, or in league with the Repubs. There was not one legitimate, non-snarky reason on the poll that made it clear that you otherwise like Dean. The poll is offensive. Starting off that way with the poll questions set the stage for this to be a Dean bash, your recent post notwithstanding.

I simply say, I only look to Dean for one thing: organization. Get our party back on its feet from the roots up. I could give a tinker's damn what he did or didn't mention on Meet the Press. I find it irrelevant.

[cestpaspossible]

44. The poll asks a question. You've made it clear that you wish

that question had not been asked. If you have suggestions for additional responses I'm all ears. No I don't think Dean is on the take... do you think a pollster should only include answers that the pollster believes are true? Why do you think Dean didn't mention it? If you give a compelling reason maybe I'll want to include it in the list of responses.

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. If only he were a Senator he could bring it up on the Senate floor

[cestpaspossible]

29. Yeah, and so many more people see random CSPAN Senate speeches

than watch MTP on NBC, that it's really too bad Dean isn't in the Senate, where he could not mention the memo to the CSPAN audience, instead of not mentioning it to the NBC audience.


What was your guess as to the reason Dean didn't mention the memo on MTP again? Somehow I missed it.

Look, I am a Dean fan, but I think he missed an opportunity.

[Freddie Stubbs]

33. Perhaps he believes that there are more important issues

:shrug:

[cestpaspossible]

37. So you are in the "he didn't think it's important" camp?

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. Do you have a more logical explanation?

:shrug:

[cestpaspossible]

64. No, that's the only explanation that makes sense

to me but I don't agree that it's not important enough to mention so either way there is some thing in the equation that does not make sense to me. As I said in a post below, I regret the tone of my op but I'll also add that none of the responses in this thread have inclined me to be any less disappointed. The misspeaking and the failure to seize on this opening indicate a problem, whether it is lack of preperation or whatever I don't know. He was mostly rock-solid, so having something to improve on is not a disaster or anything.

[Dr Fate]

59. Kerry does not need MTP in order for him to ignore this memo.

He is perfectly capable of never uttering asentence about it in whatever format he may or may not have access to.

He's never mentioned it on the Senate floor, at a speech, or even in his emails that he sends out.

[snowbear]

24. Oy,,

Geez.. I don't think I insinuated you were an asshole.. I just don't understand why we (our party.. our DU'ers.. the good guys) have to bitch and moan endlessly when we feel someone slips up? :shrug:

It's just that this topic has been raked through the coals all day on here.. :crazy:

All the bitching reminds me of the guy I sit next to at hockey games. He cusses out the goalie anytime someone scores on him. Constantly screaming his lungs out :grr: ..telling the goalie what he should be doing and how he should be playing.

You'd better believe I asked him if he's ever played himself.. Hell no he hasn't. :eyes: But I'd pay dearly to see him out there facing those shots himself. He'd be singing a different tune, I'm sure.

Maybe Dean is banging his head against the wall because he didn't or couldn't slip that question in. Who knows?! Not me. But OUR PARTY did have other members in it who were able to bring up the memo today (General Clark for example).. Maybe the General wouldn't have had the opportunity either had Wolf Blitzer not specifically asked him about it?

Maybe it's just me? Unless I had the chance to ask Dr. Dean himself why that wasn't one of his questions, I'm sure as hell not going to critize him and assume he didn't purposely leave it out.

Oh.. and I changed seats for next years hockey games. :rofl:

[cestpaspossible]

31. Ok, but why do you think Dean didn't mention the memo?

If you guess wrong, it's ok...why do you think Dean didn't mention the memo?

[SnoopDog]

30. Why? Because the Dems are a bunch of pansies....

In case you all have not figured this out yet, the Dems are NOT on our side, in fact, they are on their side... Look at the voting records... Only Boxer has a 'high' score of +20 out of +140. A few are at ZERO. And only 12 in the House have perfect scores. 12 out of what 500 + elected officials.

So, what does this tell us boys and girls? Our leaders have SOLD US OUT. They have sold us out for money and for our country. Dean? I am sure he is a good person, but he is no Galloway. We have pansies and they have just allowed our country to be taken over by our own home-grown terrorists! How nice.

Just wait till Tuesday...OOOOUUUUU.. Just what will Mr. Reid do? Hit them with his ruler and say, oh, shoot, bad boys and girls. We are going to get tough with you now! We aren't going to play with you anymore....

Say good bye to America everybody...

[ElectroPrincess]

67. Sadly, I agree with you. Dem Leadership = Gutless wonders in Pink Tutus!

[TheGunslinger]

34. Maybe he's just being cautious (given the # of forged docs in Eng. lately)

Could this Downing Street Memo be a setup? A Rovian reach across the pond?

[Stinky The Clown]

36. I said 'other' ... here's why

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1800873

[cestpaspossible]

38. Please state the reason

your link seems to go to a fictional MTP appearance that you wrote...

why do you think Dean didn't mention the memo?

[Stinky The Clown]

47. At the end of that fiction (my post) was the answer

quoted here:

Here's the fact. This has to percolate into the public consciousness from sources outside the party establishment. This has to get some play elsewhere. For our leadership to toss it out there and make an accusation would do NOTHING but allow them to paint us as loons and conspiracy theorists.

Look, I'm on your side. But I also think we need to be VERY DAMNED CAREFUL with the gift that is the Downing Street Memo. Things like this don't come along very often. And keep in mind ... it isn't a transcript that has been notarized and entered into evidence. It is a summary. An impression. While I think it is strong and is, indeed, a smoking gun, we can't play it yet.

It needs to percolate from **other** sources.

No, we need to make that percolation happen. But we can't be the percolaters.

********

And it **will** percolate up. But we have to wait to talk about it *until we're asked to*. If we bring it up on our own .... we lose.

And on a side note, the memo *did* come up .... on the Leslie Blitzer Propaganda Hour on CNN. So this, as I aver, **will** stay alive for a while.

Anyway, that's my take. If you disagree, fine. I can handle that.

That's why I think Dean did as he did. I think he was looking at the bigger picture and saw a need to forgo instant gratification.

[cestpaspossible]

49. so the idea is that for him to mention it would make it seem partisan?

[Stinky The Clown]

50. "Partisan" .... mmmmm ..... sorta that ... but its more, too.

In the superheated toxicity of today's Washington, it seems its all about getting in your shots. Absolutely its that way on the teevee yammering shows.

To bring up the **very real** issues in the memo in that atmosphere is to ... well ... cheapen it. The facts are the facts, but if we use it as just another way to get at the cabal. then that's all it is ..... just another of the millions of shots we fire at each other every day.

No, this has to come to blossom (seemingly) all on its own. From a 'non-partisan' source. As I said elsewhere on this same topic, the time will be right when the term 'Downing Street Memo' is in the common lexicon on Main Street. People need to be at least aware of it and be at least aware that it **might** have a stench about it.

When that happens, I see that as the time of critical mass. The time we can freely and openly go for it.

This won't help us with the nuclear option on Tuesday. This won't help us on social security. This won't help us with a lot of the other crap that's swirling in the shitstorm.

It will, however, help a *lot* come the 06 campaign season. By then, I'd hope it is being openly discussed. Ideally, it will have served its purpose as the first crack in an ever more widely opening door .... that door being one with an exit sign and through which idiot son will frog walk.

[cestpaspossible]

52. to bring it up is to 'cheapen' it. Facts are facts but don't mention them.

Uh-huh.... well, that's one view.

[EST]

41. Time

The host runs the show. Howard did wonderfully. I am so disappointed with the BS attacks on Dean! Actually I am not just disappointed: I'm effen angry! Usually I steer clear of this silliness, but, Damn it, this board is polluted with this trash and I, for one am sick of it!
Howard Dean deserves our praise, our heartfelt thanks, and until anybody has the balls to go through what he is and gets on MTP to go toe to toe as he is and can remember all he has to and still tell the god's honest truth, without ducking, then that person has a right to nit-pick. Until that time, it's time to pull together and bitch all you want after the country and the world are aimed back in a little better direction.

[cestpaspossible]

43. When Russert asked: "When did the president ever suggest..."

that was the perfect opportunity for Dean to point out that Bush had decided to go to war and was bending the intelligence and his rhetoric to that end. Look, all I can say is Go Howard!, I'm all behind him, but I think he missed an opportunity here.

transcript

[EST]

45. How many questions did Russert ask?

[cestpaspossible]

46. Why are you asking? the link to the transcript has been provided

if you want to count up the number of questions, go for it.

[Carolab]

51. Hear, hear! Support the man--he's the party chair!

For God's sake, can we have some UNITY???

Support the party, support the DNC, support our chair.

Stop this attack shit. It DOESN'T HELP; in fact, it's HARMFUL.

Everybody always talks about the Freeps and how they support this administration--REGARDLESS.

Mindless though they may often be, they know how to show some support for party and party policies.

We criticize them and laugh at them for their "lockstep mentality", but their (blind) devotion is stubborn and runs deep.

What's better--to keep constantly questioning and infighting, or to have some faith in a good man who is only trying to do his best for the party and for us?

[Dr Fate]

60. yes- Russert was holding a gun to him from under the table.

It's all Russerts fault that Dean does not have a 15 second talking point to express his opinion on the memo.

[CWebster]

53. Where to start, Where to begin?

So many stories to tell, so little time.

I thought he did damn well--considering the relentless grilling.

You will NEVER EVER see them pitch hardballs to DeLay, for example. And that is what we are up against.

[bklyncowgirl]

54. If you're going to take a shot at the king

You better make sure your gun's loaded and you've got a clean shot and that he's going down hard.

The Downing street memo confirms what alot of us have believed all along. Problem is, it leaves alot of wiggle room. Basicly it's what the Brits thought was happening. There's nothing there like an official White House document ordering the Pentagon to begin developing war plans for Iraq dated, let's say in late 2001 or earlier.

Democrats don't want to touch this because so many of them bought into the war as their best political option. Dean, as Chairman of the Democratic Party, has a duty to protect his own people, even though he personally opposed the war.

Finally, there's the questions about authenticity. Deans a pretty sharp operator. He was offered the TANG documents at one point and turned them down (as did Michael Moore). The last thing he needs is to go out on a limb with this and have it blow up in his face.

[NoPasaran]

55. Lizard people control his thoughts and actions

Put me in the "lame poll" catagory.

[erpowers]

56. Did not want the Trouble

I contend that Dean did not want the trouble that would come after mentioning the memo. He may have thought that he would be bashed for bring up the memo.

[wiggs]

61. Other: I'm going to be optimistic and assume....

...that he couldn't pull out the big guns because of the Tuesday fillibuster vote. He couldn't be so polarizing that the moderate pugs would react unfavorably. I think this is reasonable.

However, if that's NOT the case, I am disappointed. I thought he was articulate, careful, presentable, reasonable and that he played his cards in typical clever fashion. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED! The tactic of playing the same politics game but only better is not going to work. We have to step outside the box, lay it on the line, be honest, be brutally frank, step on toes, scream, organize not just fundraisers but protests, etc. Galloway tactics.

The political landscape is stacked against us. Playing politics as usual on that field will get us another loss. Dean played on that field on Sunday. That's OK as long as we find another field soon.

[cestpaspossible]

62. FWIW I regret the tone of the response choices I offered in this poll

I had just watched the interview and I guess I was pretty disappointed there was no mention, and in hindsight, I should have cooled down before I posted about it.

[lojasmo]

69. Thank you. I also regretted your tone. EOM

[XemaSab]

63. E: Howard's smarter than I am,

and he has his own reasons for deciding what to talk about.

[lojasmo]

65. Are you kidding me? What a stupid poll

Dean probably covered 70 topics. Perhaps when YOU'RE chair of the DNC, you can say what YOU want on national TV.

I have do doubt that if Dean had talked about the memo, you'd be screaming because he "put his foot in it"

Threads like this make me sick.

[Dr Fate]

66. The Base is who put Dean in that chair.

And I cant get a spot on national TV, but if I could, I would have spent 15-30 seconds mentioning the memo by name. Dean is suppose to represent the rank and file DEMs- and most rank & file DEMSs ARE concerned about Iraq and would like to see "the memo" get more exposure.

So what was your reason for him not mentioning it? Dean did not have enough time or somthing?

And I personally would not complain at all if Dean spoke up.

I see a lot of attacking the messenger and a lot of excuses.

Are you really saying you are GLAD the memo was not specifically mentioned? Would you have been disappointed had he done so?

[lojasmo]

68. I'm saying Dean is the chair of the DNC, and he has his own priorities.

Primarily fundraising, and supporting senate and house races. I trust Dr. Dean to chose what issues he speaks to.

Would I have preferred that he speak about the memo? Sure. I think, however, that that is best left to legislators (perhaps somebody on the forign relations committee)

[Dr Fate]

70. Fund raising is at a low for the DNC. The memo is great red meat

If he HAD mentioned the memo, everyone would be calling him a hero- he failed to bring it up, so everyone makes excuses and continues to blame the media.

Bringing up the memo would have probably increased his fund raising. When I was a DNC fundraiser, that was the top complaint- "DEMs are never fighting Bush hard enough- why cant they go on TV and call him a liar like they do to us?" I heard a variation of that daily.

I do not trust Dean to have carte blanche to speak on or to ignore our issues- I trust the Democratic BASE to define what the top issues should be- the base who has been right in every instance where the DEM establishment has been wrong.

And yeah- it would be great if high profile legislators would speak up- but it would have taken 15 seconds for Dean to offer his opinion as well.

This is the most important issue of our lifetime- I cant believe we think its okay to just ignore it.

[steve2470]

72. My hard copy of my post here on DU went to Dr. Dean today...

I eagerly await his reply or non-reply.

[Moderator]

74. Locking, this poll has served it's purpose