Could Mark Warner, gov. of Virginia, be the next Democrat prez nominee?

[Dover]

Warner slipped away for exclusive meeting in Germany

By BOB LEWIS, Associated Press - The Virginian Pilot - 17 May 2005

RICHMOND -- Gov. Mark R. Warner quietly slipped away earlier this month to Germany for a secretive weekend conclave of global economic and foreign policy figures.

Warner confirmed Monday that he took part in the annual Bilderberg Meeting the weekend of May 6-8 at a resort hotel near Munich. Other U.S. participants included Henry Kissinger, Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman, Ford Motor Co. chairman and CEO Bill Ford and Richard Holbrooke, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder addressed the group, Warner said.

"My sense was you had the opportunity here to interact with the leading business leaders not only of the United States but in all of Europe," Warner said in an interview.

Participants are forbidden to disclose what they discussed. "I think I should honor the ground rules," Warner said when asked for details....cont'd

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=86537&ran=190681


----------------------------

World leaders attend meeting that they won't talk about

By Jackie Kucinich

The discussions are private, the location is not publicized and only the most powerful may attend.

The 53rd Bilderberg Meeting, a gathering shrouded in secrecy, allegedly took place this past weekend near Munich, Germany, at the Dorint Sofitel Uberfahrt hotel.

Several members of Congress have been said to be on the guest list in the past, including Sens. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Texas), Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), Jon Corzine (D-N.J.), Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) and Evan Bayh (D-Ind.).

Sen. John Edwards (D-N.C) took a break from the campaign trail to attend the meeting last year.

Hagel's office confirmed that he had attended the conference in 1999 and 2000.

While none of those members attended this year's conference, Ken Mehlman, chairman of the Republican National Committee, did.

"He was invited by the conference, and he was pleased to attend," RNC press secretary Tracey Schmitt said. She added that she did not have information on what specifically was discussed at the meeting.
...cont'd

http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/051205/leaders.html



------------------------------

Bilderberg strikes again


10May05 - Asia Times -
By Pepe Escobar

"It would have been quite impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries ..." - David Rockefeller, Bilderberg club permanent member, 1991
This conversation never happened. Well, it actually did. Date: March 5 to 8, 2005. Location: the isolated, fully-booked Dorint Sofitel Seehotel Ueberfahrt in Rottach-Egern, 60 kilometers east of Munich, Germany. Essential amenities: luxury rooms, a lake, a golf course, no suits - and no wives. Participants: 120-odd Western movers and shakers - politicians, tycoons, bankers, captains of industry, so-called strategic thinkers - invited for the 2005 meeting of the ultra-secretive Bilderberg club. Security: absolutely draconian. Global media coverage: non-existent.

Talk about white man's burden: Bilderberg is strictly "Western" elite, ie American-European. Bilderberg resolutely excludes Asia, Latin America, the Middle East and Africa. Bilderberg operates in strictly master of the universe territory: what we say goes. Only when events happen will corporate media report them, even though selected media people would have been aware of what has been decided weeks or even months in advance. The New York Times, the Big Three American networks, the Financial Times have all been represented at many Bilderbergs. But they are constrained by the silence of the lambs (see Asia Times Online's report on Bilderberg 2003 in Versailles The masters of the universe May 22, 2003)

Bilderberg has an address - in Leiden, Holland - and even a phone number - always on female answering-machine mode. No website though. In an annual ritual, Bilderberg meeting places and agendas have to be painstakingly uncovered by a small group of independent sleuths like Briton Tony Gosling or American James Tucker - who has been following Bilderberg for 30 years. Tucker is publishing a book on Bilderberg later this year. Historian Pierre de Villemarest and journalist William Wolf have already published Facts and Chronicles Denied to the Public, volumes 1 and 2, which include a secret history of Bilderberg. Belgian sociologist Geoffrey Geuens from the University of Liege has also included a full chapter on Bilderberg in one of his books. Although Geuens condemns Bilderberg's obsessive secrecy, he does not subscribe to conspiracy theories: he prefers to study how Bilderberg unmasks the way power works and the incestuous relations between politics, economics and the media.

Whenever corporate media approaches Bilderberg it mirrors the silence of the lambs. In 2005, the Financial Times released a classic pre-emptive story downplaying what it qualifies as conspiracy theories. In fact, anyone who questions the most powerful club in the world is derided as a conspiracy theorist. Bilderbergers like British lords or American policy-makers meekly justify it as "just a place to discuss ideas", an innocent "forum" where anyone can "speak frankly", and other assorted cliches.

Bilderberger Etienne Davignon, a former vice president of the European Commission, adamantly stresses "this is not a capitalist plot to run the world". Thierry de Montbrial, director of the French Institute of International Relations and a Bilderberg member for almost 30 years, says this is only "a club". The official Bilderberg 2002 press release, for instance, said that "Bilderberg's only activity is its annual conference. At the meetings, no resolutions are proposed, no votes taken and no policy statements issued." Bilderberg is just "a small flexible, informal and off-the-record international forum in which different viewpoints can be expressed and mutual understanding enhanced". This is, in fact, what the much-lauded "trans-Atlantic relationship" is all about.. ...cont'd

http://atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GE10Aa02.html
_____________________________________________________________

BILDERBERG MEETINGS
Rottach-Egern, Germany
5-8 May 2005

On the 2005 agenda: Iran, Iraq, The Middle East, Non-Proliferation, Asia, Economic Problems, Russia, European-American relations.

LIST OF PARTICIPANTS

Honorary Chairman
B, Davignon, Etienne, Vice Chairman, Suez-Tractebel

Honorary Secretary General
GB, Taylor, J. Martin, International Advisor, Goldman Sachs International


NL, Aartsen, Jozias J. van, Parliamentary Leader, Liberal Party (VVD)

PNA, Abu-Amr, Ziad, Member of the Palestinian Legislative Council; President of the Palestinian Council on Foreign Relations; Professor of Political Science, Birzeit University

D, Ackermann, Josef, Chairman, Group Executive Committee. Deutsche Bank AG

INT, Almunia Amann, Joaquin, Commissioner, European Commission

GR, Alogoskoufis, George, Minister of Economy and Finance

TR, Babacan, Ali, Minister of Economic Affairs

P, Balsemão, Francisco Pinto, Chairman and CEO, IMPRESA, S.G.P.S.; Former Prime Minister

INT, Barroso. José M. Durão, President, European Commission

S, Belfrage, Erik, Senior Vice President, SEB

I, Bernabè, Franco, Vice Chairman, Rothschild Europe

F, Beytout, Nicolas, Editor-in-Chief, Le Figaro

A, Bronner, Oscar, Publisher and Editor, Der Standard

GB, Browne, John, Group Chief Executive, BP plc

D, Burda, Hubert, Chairman of the Board of Management, Hubert Burda Media

IRL, Byrne, David, WHO Special Envoy on Global Cornmunicable Diseases; Former Commissioner, European Commission

F, Camus, Philippe, CEO, EADS

F, Castries, Henri de Chairman of the Board, AXA

E, Cebrián. Juan Luis, CEO, PRISA

USA, Collins, Timothy C., Senior Managing Director and CEO, Ripplewood Holdings, LLC

F, Collomb, Bertrand, Chairman, Lafarge

CH, Couchepin, Pascal, Head, Department of Home Affairs

GR, David, George A., Chairman, Coca-Cola H.B.C. S.A.

F, Delpech, Thérèse, Director for Strategic Affairs, Atomic Energy Commission

GR, Diamantopoulou, Anna, Member of Parliament

NL, Docters van Leeuwen, Arthur W.H., Chairman of the Executive Board, Netherlands Authority for the Financial Markets

USA, Donilon, Thomas E., Partner, O’Melveny & Myers

D, Döpfner, Mathias, CEO, Axel Springer AG

DK, Eldrup, Anders, President, DONG A/S

I, Elkann, John, Vice Chairman, Fiat S.p.A.

USA, Feldstein, Martin S, President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research

USA, Ford, Jr., William C., Chairman and CEO, Ford Motor Company

USA, Geithner, Timothy F., President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York

TR, Gencer, Imregul, Member of the Board, Global Investment Holding

ISR, Gilady, Eival, Strategic Advisor to Prime Minister Sharon

IRL, Gleeson, Dermot, Chairman, AIB Group

USA, Graham, Donald E., Chairman and CEO, The Washington Post Company

N, Grydeland, Bjørn T., Ambassador to the EU

P, Guterres, António, Former Prime Minister; President, Socialist International

USA, Haass, Richard N., President, Council on Foreign Relations

NL, Halberstadt, Victor, Professor of Economics, Leiden University

B, Hansen, Jean-Pierre, CEO, Suez-Tractebel S.A.

A, Haselsteiner, Hans Peter, CEO, Bauholding Strabag SE (Societas Europea)

DK, Hedegaard, Connie, Minister for the Environment

USA, Holbrooke, Richard C., Vice Chairman, Perseus

INT, Hoop Scheffer, Jaap G. de Secretary General, NATO

USA, Hubbard, Allan B., Assistant to the President for Economic Policy and Director of the National Economic Council

B, Huyghebaert, Jan, Chairman of the Board of Directors, KBC Group

USA, Johnson, James A., Vice Chairman, Perseus LLC

INT, Jones, James L., Supreme Allied Commander Euope, SHAPE

USA, Jordan, Jr.,Vernon E., Senior Managing Director, Lazard Frères & Co. LLC

USA, Keane, John M., President, GSI, LLC; General, US Army, Retired

GB, Kerr, John, Director, Shell, Rio Tinto, Scottish Americal Investment Trust

USA, Kissinger, Henry A., Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.

D, Kleinfeld, Klaus, President and CEO, Siemens AG

TR, Koç, Mustafa V., Chairman, Koç Holding A.S.

D, Kopper, Hilmar, Chairman of the Supervisory Board, DaimlerChrysler AG

F, Kouchner, Bernard, Director, "Santé et développement", CNAM

USA, Kravis, Henry R., Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.

USA, Kravis, Marie-Josée, Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, Inc.

INT, Kroes, Neelie, Commissioner, European Commission

CH, Kudelski, André, Chairman of the Board and CEO, Kudelski Group

F, Lamy, Pascal, President, Notre Europe; Former Commissioner, European Commission

USA, Ledeen, Michael A., American Enterprise Institute

FIN, Liikanen, Erkki, Govemor and Chairman of the Board, Bank of Finland

N, Lundestad, Geir, Director, Norwegian Nobel Institute; Secretary, Norwegian Nobel Committee

USA, Luti, William J., Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs

DK, Lykketoft, Mogens, Chairman, Social Democratic Party

CDN, Manji, Irshad, Author/Founder of "Project Ijtihad”

USA, Mathews, Jessica T., President, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

CDN, Mau, Bruce, Bruce Mau Design

CDN, McKenna, Frank, Ambasssador to the US

USA, Medish, Mark C., Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP

USA, Mehlman, Kenneth B., Chairman, Republican National Committee

D, Merkel, Angela, Chairman, CDU; Chairman CDU/CSU-Fraction

SVK, Miklos, Ivan, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance

F, Montbrial, Thierry de, President, French Institute of International Relations (IFRI)

INT, Monti, Mario, President, Bocconi University; Former Commissioner for Competition, European Commission

CDN, Munroe-Blum, Heather, Principal and Vice Chancellor, McGill University

N, Myklebust, Egil, Chairman of the Board of Directors, SAS

D, Nass, Matthias, Deputy Editor, Die Zeit

RUS, Nemirovskaya, Elena, Founder and Director, Moscow School of Political Studies

NL, Netherlands, H.M. tihe Queen of The

PL, Olechowski, Andrzej, Leader Civic Platform

FIN, Ollila, Jorma, Chairman of the Board and CEO, Nokia Corporation

INT, Padoa-Schioppa, Tommaso, Member of the Executive Board, European Central Bank

E, Palacio, Loyola de, President, Council on Foreign Relations, Partido Popular

GR, Papandreou, George A., President, Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK)

USA, Pearl, Frank H., Chairman and CEO, Perseus, LLC

USA, Pearlstine, Norman, Editor-in-Chief, Time Inc.

FIN, Pentikäinen, Mikael, President, Sanoma Corporation

USA, Perle, Richard N., Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research

D, Pflüger, Friedbert, Member of Parliament, CDU/CSU Fraktion

B, Philippe, H.R.H. Prince

CDN, Prichard, J. Robert S., President. Torstar Media Group and CEO, Torstar Corporation

IN'T, Rato y Figaredo, Rodrigo de, Managing Director, IMF

CDN, Reisman, Heather, President and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc.

USA, Rockefeller, David, Member, JP Morgan International Council

USA, Rodin, Judith, President, The Rockefeller Foundation

E, Rodriguez Inciarte, Matias, Executive Vice Chairman, Grupo Santander

USA, Ross, Dennis B., Director, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

F, Roy, Olivier, Senior Researcher, CNRS

P, Sarmento, Nuno Morais, Former Minister of State and of Presidency; Member of Parliament

I, Scaroni, Paolo, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director, Enel S.p.A.

D, Schily, Otto, Minister of the Interior

A, Scholten, Rudolf, Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG

D, Schrempp , Jürgen E., Chairman of the Board of Management, DaimlerChrysler AG

D, Schulz, Ekkehard D., Chairman of the Executive Board, ThyssenKrupp AG

E, Sebastián Gascón, Miguel, Chief Economic Adviser to Prime Minister

ISR, Sharansky, Natan, Former Minister for Jerusalem & Diaspora Affairs

I, Siniscalco, Domenico, Minister for Economy and Finance

GB, Skidelsky, Robert, Professor of Political Economy, Warwick University

E, Spain, H.M. the Queen of

IRL, Sutherland, Peter D., Chairman, Goldman Sachs International; Chairman, BP p.l.c.

PL, Szwajcowski, Jacek, CEO, Polska Grupa Farmaceutyczna

FIN, Tiilikainen, Teija H., Director, University of Helsinki, Network for European Studies

NL, Tilmant, Michel, Chairman, ING N.V.

INT, Trichet, Jean-Claude, Governor, European Central Bank

TR, Ülsever, Cüneyt, Columnist, Hürriyet

CH, Vasella, Daniel L., Chairman and CEO, Novartis AG

NL, Veer, Jeroen van der, Chairman Committee of.Managing Directors, Royal Dutch Shell Group

USA, Vinocur, John, Senior Correspondent, International Herald Tribune

S, Wallenberg, Jacob, Chairman of the Board, Investor AB; Vice-Chairman, SEB

USA, Warner, Mark R., Governor of Virginia

GB, Weinberg, Peter, CEO, Goldman Sachs International

D, Wissmann, Matthias, Member of Parliament, CDU/CSU Fraktion

GB, Wolf, Martin H., Asscociate Editor and Economics Commentator, The Financial Times

INT/USA, Wolfensohn, James D., President, The World Bank

USA, Wolfowitz, Paul, President designate, The World Bank

USA, Zakaria, Fareed, Editor, Newsweek International

D, Zumwinkel, Klaus, Chairman of the Board of Management, Deutsche Post AG

Rapporteurs
GB, Micklethwait, R., John, United States Editor, The Economist

GB, Wooldridge, Adrian D., Foreign Correspondent, The Economist

George Bush just happened to be "in the area" during the conference so it's likely he attended as well.


___________________________________________________

secret agenda 2005

15Feb05 - by Marek Tysis - Bilderberg exclusive


http://www.bilderberg.org/2005.htm#Marek

[LittleClarkie]

1. So what's this all about, anyway?

What is Bilderberg, and is it a concern?

I've seen some tinfoil hatted stuff about them, now I'd like the straight poop, if anyone has it.

[Dover]

2. Bilderberg is one of several venues for annual meetings of the power elite

The "conspiracy theories" which surround it are due, in large part, to its secrecy. No press allowed unless they are invited to attend. And attendees are sworn to secrecy about what transpires. So that makes them fair game for much speculation. They do seem to groom and/or interview potential candidates for elections in the U.S. and other Western nations, as can be deducted by simply reading the attendees list for various years. Clinton and Kerry have both attended, for instance.

If you want to learn about its history then simply read the articles, and/or visit this site (or just do a google search). Whether they are the "real" global government is debatable. But it is quite likely that many decisions that impact global decisions are made there (without any public input or knowledge...which is the main complaint). Just what they do will depend on who you ask, but it is the secrecy that is of concern.

http://www.bilderberg.org/2005.htm#Marek

[LittleClarkie]

4. I was just checking out that site

It's a bit tinfoil-hattish, isn't it. This person seems to think that anyone he spots at one of the conferences is part of some conspiracy, even the head of the International Socialists.

[Dover]

7. Well, feel free to do your own search. I was interested in the site

because they posted several articles from various sources that were announcing and watching the meeting.

As I said, you are free to speculate what you feel goes on there based on whatever source seems most reliable.

[snowbear]

3. Dunno about the meeting either...

But yeah, according the Judy WoofWoof, Governor Warner is definitely interested...

[LittleClarkie]

5. Isn't he rather Conservative?

Are we just interested because he's Southern, somewhat to the right, and a Governor instead of a Senator?

btw, I wish you wouldn't refer to Woof Woof. I keep thinking of Eddie Munster's little wolfman doll.

[snowbear]

6. Dunno..

Haven't really heard much about him? :shrug:

Anyone awake who knows about Governor Warner? :boring: :)

[MsTryska]

11. Well - one of my coworkers

who is very liberal, and also a DC political wonk thinks he's great. She says the teachers in Virginia love him, and that in her opinion, he's definitely a complete package for president.

If he gets her seal of approval, he's got mine.

[FrenchieCat]

20. "Complete package"?

What's Mark Warner's experience in N/S and F/P? the Dems strength in N/S and F/P, Which is one of my concerns, and apparently the concerns of many who ended up voting for * in the 2004 election....cannot be discounted and made to "disappear".

To call Mark Warner a "complete Package" for a potential 2008 run is more than just an uninformed overstatement. I consider it "Wishful" thinking.

Does Mark Warner really have the qualifications to be seen as having the experience in all required? Really? For a 2008 election or one that took place in 1992?

I think that IF we are hoping to go back to the conditions of the 1992 election.....Mark Warner may fit the bill to some degree, however "whimpy" he might ultimately come off. Even looking at 1992 election conditions, the question should be asked whether Mark Warner has the sincerity and the charismatic skills that Clinton utilized in winning the 1992 elections. Considering the way Warner made his fortune, some might wonder if his ties to "Business" and "Corporations" might not be a hinder in these times.

Look, Warner may do "just fine"....but we have to make sure that we are not blinded in making our analysis when determining what will be required to win in 2008. If there is peace on Earth by then.....Mark Warner would possibly a great "centrist" candidate. But if we do achieve "peace on Earth", maybe Republicans will win....as it will translated that it was due to their policies.

Let's just keep on our thinking caps as we go through this process...and not allow pundit pap and shallow analysis to blind us to the real conditions of our current world as we get closer to 2008.

The 2008 election will not be a replay of 1992, that, I can assure you. A panacea is wonderful.....but not a myopic one that defines "electability" in terms applicable of elections in years gone by.

[MsTryska]

22. what the hell is N/S, F/P??? nt

nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. My guess would be

"national security" and "foreign policy."

[MsTryska]

28. Ah - that makes perfect sense.....

I didn't even think of that as an acronym. And that's a point duly noted - but he sure can handle a deficit and should do well with the domestic side of things. I'm presuming the above poster would prefer Wes Clark - but Clark doesn't really have the Domestic Policy down, so what to do? This country is screwed on multiple levels at the moment.

I could handle a Warner/Clark ticket tho.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Domestic policies have never been the Dem's weak point....

So Warner, as well as a myriad of potential candidates are well qualified in that arena....

In addition, you are making sweeping assumptions as to what Clark "has down". It is my opinion that this is a Stereotype being applied to Clark...by those who would rather see some other candidate be put forward.....because how could a Rhodes Scholar who majored in Economics be smart enough to know anything about domestic policies? Clark "may" not be as strong as Warner on Domestic issues practically speaking....that I will concede.... However, when I peruse Clark's experience on Domestic issues (the fact that he at least ran for President once before....and did relatively well under the circumstances--not contesting Iowa; coming the last four months of primaries)....I'd say that he is stronger on those than...say, Warner is in Foreign Policy and National Security.

Please remember that the last election was not lost on Domestic issues (and certainly not the economic ones...although value issues were used as a ruse initially as a main issue to push an agenda--in the final analysis, it was National Security that lost Dems the election).

So again, a governor from a small red state sounds great....a la 1992 election.....but is that what 2008 will be about? and is Domestic policy strength alone what will get us into the White house in 2008?

Here's some who felt that Clark was strong in certain areas.....not dealing with National Security.
I think that Clark is more of a populist than is Warner.

And remember, Warner went to the Biltenberg meeting this month....Clark didn't. The question to be begged is....is a corporatist the best to represent Americans in 2008?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Clark had the tax plan that would have helped lower income families....let us not forget....
http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2004/02/18/opinion/my...
There were those who, concerned more with party credentials than the public interest, challenged Clark's right to run as a Democrat. At candidate debates he was asked to justify his recent decision to be a party member. But what defined Clark as a Democrat was not longevity of membership but fidelity of principle. There was a time when tax fairness virtually defined the Democratic Party. It no longer does. The party is so wired into corporate corruption that it is a betrayal of everything for which it once stood. If a Democrat steps out of line long enough to support the poor and middle class, she or he is likely to be attacked by "leaders" like Joe Lieberman, who last year attacked Al Gore for Gore's halfhearted economic populism.

Clark tried to reverse that. Where other candidates tinkered with tax "reform" (every screwing of the public in the last 40 years has been done in the name of tax reform) he proposed a bold stroke to "restore progressivity to the tax system." A family of four with an income of up to $50,000 a year would have been exempted from the income tax altogether. A single parent with one child making up to $28,000 a year would also have been exempted (with a sliding scale to cover other circumstances).

The revenue lost would have been recovered by reversing the trend of cutting taxes paid by the rich. Clark would have increased taxes on the one percent of taxpayers at the top.

This was, indeed, a restoration. When the income tax was created in 1913 under grass roots pressure for a fairer form of taxation, it was assumed the income tax would be progressive -
snip
when we see the imitation Democrats chasing after corporate campaign "contributions" while trying hard to forget Wesley Clark, who made the mistake of reminding them of what a real Democrat represents.
------------------------
2. Clark is essentially a pre-Sixties Democrat
Clark's main position on the culture wars is to find them (a) baffling and pointless and (b) a right-wing conspiracy to distract middle-class white guys from their declining living standards and an economic policy that gives everything to the wealthy. His take on Reagan Democrats/Angry White Males/NASCAR Dads (pick one) is essentially: "I understand why you feel neglected, scorned, and generally ticked off. The last thirty years have screwed you economically and demeaned you culturally. But dunderheaded jingoism will just guarantee exactly the bad jobs and eroded national pride you fear most. Be smart: Make a few sacrifices now to build peace and national pride in the future." The message is pitch-perfect: like something Clinton would say, except sincere.
http://www.ospolitics.org/usa/archives/2003/11/26/how_i...

[MsTryska]

32. ok. thanks for the info.

just on a side note - it is OK to have multiple viable candidates. in fact it's a good thing.


don't be so quick to tear down one because they are not yours.

[FrenchieCat]

33. I don't think that a "tear Down" was employed in any of my posts....

Some may see Mark Warner as a "complete package", and are welcome to express this view. I do not, and expressed my views on that in a sensible manner.

IF questioning the CW of what a "complete" package is; what election issues we should not ignore in 2008...based on our 2004 experience; and rebutting the statement made by another that Clark does not have domestic policies "Down" to be considered "tearing down".....then so be it.

If you re-read my posts....I actually concede certain points to Mark Warner.

I think that your language of what my posts represents is somewhat unfair. A debate does not have to be a dance on tip-toe....I think that I brought up fair points and backed up why I conclude as I do.

The whole point of the thread started was the fact that Warner showed up at Bildenberg.....a super secret organization that can be seen as one of the Powers-that-be who, to some, appear to have a hand in determining who our candidate might be (based on past attendees) for us. An organization made up in large part of the movers and shakers of the corporate and the political world.

Warner's presence there makes him fair game for discussion....especially considering that Democrats would like to the ones that choose the Democratic Nominee in 2008.....

[magnolia]

13. Wide awake in Virginia!

I was at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner a few months ago where Gov. Warner spoke. He came out to an audience of about 1,000 all chanting "2008"! And he loved it. He strongly hinted at running for president.

He is the complete package and would still be even if he weren't southern. (BTW...he's not the stereo-typical southerner...no accent, no cutesy phrases, etc.) He's intelligent, very likable, excellent and natural leader and speaker, has done great things in Virginia (our economy is at the top five best after Gilmore left things in shambles). He has a squeaky clean past and personal life. Most of all, he's a winner. It can't be stressed enough that he's a democrat in a very republican state. He won his governorship TWO MONTHS after 9/11/01 even though Guiliani was vigorously campaigning against him!

Personally, I'll be happy whatever he chooses to do: president, vice-president or senator.

[Vadem]

46. He is from Connecticut!....n/t

[livinginphotographs]

17. I like him.

He took the budget disaster that the last republican governor Jim Gilmore left and turned it around. The anti-tax crowd hates him because, imagine that, roads and schools and police can't be paid in monopoly money, but his approval rating is pretty high in red Virginia.

[snowbear]

8. LOL..... "woof woof"

You mean this thing?

LOL.. :rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

9. Yep

Don't forget to kiss it good night.

[snowbear]

10. LOL... Clarkie....

BTW.. One thing I do remember about Mark Warner.. His Lt. Governor, Tom Kaine, did an article for something or other (someone posted it on one of these sites) that talked about how he was pushing for a "Warner/Clark" ticket in 2008...

If I come across the site that Kaine discusses why Clark should be Warners VP, and why Warner should get the nomination, I'll send it to you...

:bounce:

[Mass]

14. Clark VP of Warner does not make any sense

Clark is 10 times more qualified than Warner to be President.

I know Warner is pushed by a lot of moderate Democrats as the perfect man, but I am not sure what his accomplishments are, except being a one-term governor of Virginia and so be deemed electable.

Can somebody tell us what he did (good and bad) as a governor.

[leyton]

16. Let the flame wars begin.

As for Warner's qualifications - his major accomplishment is that he and the Republican state legislature came together to get the state's finances in order and restore Virginia's credit rating.

[FrenchieCat]

21. I agree that a one term Governor may appear "electable"

under 1992 election conditions. But the 2008 election won't be a rerun of 1992.

Plus Warner does not have the charisma, nor the oratory gifts, nor the sincerity of a Bill Clinton.

Many need to start thinking "out of the Box" and understand that Peace on earth will not be achieved in time of the 2008 election...and if it were, then we'd have to give Republicans credit for that achievement.

We must stay wise in our overall analysis of what it's gonna take for Dems to win back the WH in 2008. A trip down the 1992 memory lane....ain't gonna quite get it, IMO....especially with a poor imitation of our last Dem Prez who actually got to serve.

[woodleydem]

38. How is Clark in any way more qualified than Warner?

Warner has at least been a governor. He has worked with a Republican legislature, he has balanced budgets, he has appealed to rural voters with his rural business initiatives, he has improved Virginia's credit rating to A+. His pro-death penalty and pro-guns rights positions will pretty much prevent Republicans from calling him a wimp. (He also sponsored a NASCAR racing team) Now, a Democratic governor in Virginia is not necessarily out of the ordinary, but last time I checked he had an approval rating in the 60's. He ran against Sen. John Warner in 1998 I believe and gave John Warner the closest race he has ever had in the last 20 years.

Clark has no elected office experience whatsoever. He has no legislative or policy accomplishments to point to, no experience working with legislatures, and no base of constituents. I agree that 2008 won't be like 1992, but it will be closer to 1992 than 2004 was. I'm a sure Clark is a good man, but I just don't understand the Clark lovefest. I'm not sure if Warner will win the nomination or not, but he has a much better shot than Clark.

[FrenchieCat]

40. Your points, and mine....

YOUR POINT: Clark has no elected office experience whatsoever.
MINE: Granted, that is true; Clark has not held any elected office, and is not per se a professional politician. However, I will add that executive experience, character, leadership abilities and courage is what Presidents need moreso than anything else; Clark has these traits, IMO, although not via an elected position.

Bush Jr. had elective office experience, and worked with legislatures....and IMHO, that did nothing for how well he has performed on the job. I disagree that what this nation is in need of right now....or possibly in 2008 is another professional elected politician.

Let me know if the last few Democratic politicians we have put up, who had previously held elected position, are currently as president.

a very simple job description for POTUS from Scholastic:
The Constitution assigns the president two roles: chief executive of the federal government and Commander in Chief of the armed forces. As Commander in Chief, the president has the authority to send troops into combat, and is the only one who can decide whether to use nuclear weapons.

As chief executive, he enforces laws, treaties, and court rulings; develops federal policies; prepares the national budget; and appoints federal officials. He also approves or vetoes acts of Congress and grants pardons.
http://teacher.scholastic.com/researchtools/articlearch...
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YOUR POINT: He has no legislative or policy accomplishments to point to

MINE: Well he does and he doesn't. It depends on what you would label as "policy accomplishments".

Clark, a Rhodes scholar with advanced degrees from Oxford in Economics, Political Science and Economics was also a White House Fellow and served as a Special Assistant to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget. He taught economics, and social science at West Point.

Did his "policy accomplishments" have to take place in an office? If so, too bad, otherwise:
Clark action on Affirmative Action
http://www.freep.com/voices/columnists/eclark24_20031024.htm
Success of military diversity proves affirmative action works
Snip
In the University of Michigan affirmative action case this year, I joined military and political leaders in an amicus brief affirming my deeply held belief that policies combating discrimination are essential to good order, combat readiness and military effectiveness. As a result of these policies, the military is one of the most integrated institutions in America. And our country is safer today because it is defended by a diverse, integrated, talented military that is the envy of the world.

Does testifying against a war, when you don't have to, count as an accomplishment?
http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatementsandpressreleases/107thcongress/02-09-26clark.html
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/us/hearingspreparedstatements/hasc-092602.htm

Clark policy action on Genocide which eventually led to his "early retirement"
b]Waiting for the General
By Elizabeth Drew
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16795
Clark had also favored military action against the genocide in Rwanda.
http://www.crookedtimber.org/archives/001104.html
Clark was almost alone in pushing for a humanitarian intervention in Rwanda.
Pulitzer award winning Samantha Power for her book "A Problem from Hell" : America and the Age of Genocide
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006054164...
endorsed Wes Clark http://www.kiddingonthesquare.com/2003/12/redeeming_wes...
The following excerpts from Power's book give the details.
General Clark is one of the heroes of Samantha Power's book. She introduces him on the second page of her chapter on Rwanda and describes his distress on learning about the genocide there and not being able to contact anyone in the Pentagon who really knew anything about it and/or about the Hutu and Tutsi.
She writes, "He frantically telephoned around the Pentagon for insight into the ethnic dimension of events in Rwanda. Unfortunately, Rwanda had never been of more than marginal concern to Washington's most influential planners" (p. 330) .
He advocated multinational action of some kind to stop the genocide. "Lieutenant General Wesley Clark looked to the White House for leadership. 'The Pentagon is always going to be the last to want to intervene,' he says. 'It is up to the civilians to tell us they want to do something and we'll figure out how to do it.' But with no powerful personalities or high-ranking officials arguing forcefully for meaningful action, midlevel Pentagon officials held sway, vetoing or stalling on hesitant proposals put forward by midlevel State Department and NSC officials" (p. 373).
According to Power, General Clark was already passionate about humanitarian concerns, especially genocide, before his appointment as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces in Europe.
She details his efforts in behalf of the Dayton Peace Accords and his brilliant command of NATO forces in Kosovo. The NATO bombing campaign succeeded in removing brutal Serb police units from Kosovo, in ensuring the return on 1.3 million Kosovo Albanians, and in securing for Albanians the right of self-governance."
".....Favoring humanitarian intervention had never been a great career move."

Samantha Power's comments on Wesley Clark at the December 17, 2003, press conference in Concord, New Hampshire after the General's testimony at the Hague .
"...I spent about seven years looking into American responses to genocide in the twentieth century, and discovered something that may not surprise you but that did surprise me, which was that until 1999 the United States had actually never intervened to prevent genocide in our nation's history. Successive American presidents had done an absolutely terrific job pledging never again, and remembering the holocaust, but ultimately when genocide confronted them, they weighed the costs and the benefits of intervention, and they decided that the risks of getting involved were actually far greater than the other non-costs from the standpoint of the American public, of staying uninvolved or being bystanders. That changed in the mid-1990s, and it changed in large measure because General Clark rose through the ranks of the American military.

The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing. And it was Pentagon reluctance to intervene in Rwanda, and in Bosnia, that actually made it much, much easier for political leaders to turn away. When the estimates started coming out of the Pentagon that were much more constructive, and proactive, and creative, one of the many deterrents to intervention melted away. And so I think, again, in discussing briefly the General's testimony, it's important to remember why he was able to testify at the Hague, and he testified because he decided to own something that was politically very, very unfashionable at the time."
http://www.kiddingonthesquare.com/2004/01/the_subtle_ar...
---------------
Constituent base is relative. I realize that Warner won one election, and so he does have the edge of having won....though he never ran a national campaign...something Clark did do.
http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2004/02/18/opinion/myers.html
http://www.ospolitics.org/usa/archives/2003/11/26/how_i_beca.php
--------------
Some will stay thinking in the box that we have been put in....and when thinking "President"...will only think about celebrities politicians (Hillary and Edwards) and Senators (Biden, Kerry, Bayh, Feingold and Boxer)and Governors (Warner, Richardson and Vilsack), and that's OK. But if you look at what this country needs right now - a leader with courage, and determination to do the right thing, those other candidates pale in comparison to Wes Clark, IMO.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1548301

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1517151

I think that the below Awards speak volumes of Clark's policy accomplishments...although they may not have been for being the Governor of a small state...
http://wesleyclark.h1.ru/awards.htm
General Wesley K. Clark USA (ret.) is the nation's most highly decorated officer since Dwight Eisenhower. Among his military decorations are the Defense Distinguished Service Medal (five awards); Distinguished Service Medal (two awards); Silver Star, Legion of Merit (four awards); Bronze Star Medal (two awards); Purple Heart; Meritorious Service Medal (two awards); Army Commendation Medal (two awards); NATO Medal for Service with NATO on Operations in Relation to Kosovo, NATO Medal for Service with NATO on Operations in Relation to the Former Republic of Yugoslavia, Legacy of Leadership and Lady Liberty(TM) Award.
His Foreign awards include the Honorary Knight Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (United Kingdom); Commander of the Legion of Honor (France); Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany; Knight Grand Cross in the Order of Orange-Nassau, with Swords (Netherlands); Grand Officer of the Order of Merit of the Republic of Italy; Grand Cross of the Medal of Military Merit (Portugal); The Commander's Cross with Star of the Order of Merit of Republic of Poland; Grand Officer of the Order of Merit of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg; Grand Medal of Military Merit (White Band) (Spain); The Grand Cordon of the Order of Leopold (Belgium); Cross of Merit of the Minister of Defense First Class (Czech Republic); Order of Merit of the Hungarian Republic; Commander's Cross, The Silver Order of Freedom of the Republic of Slovenia; Madarski Konnik Medal (Bulgaria); Commemorative Medal of the Minister of Defense of the Slovak Republic First Class (Slovakia); First Class Order of Lithuanian Grand Duke Gediminas (Lithuania); Order of the Cross of the Eagle (Estonia); The Skandeberg Medal (Albania); Order of Merit of Morocco; Order of Merit of Argentina; The Grade of Prince Butmir w/Ribbon and Star (Croatia) and the Military Service Cross of Canada.
(Central Europe Sep. 8, 2000, U.S. State Department Oct. 2, 1999, http://Individual.com)
Going back when the Medal of Freedom meant something!
Jesse Jackson, Gen. Clark Awarded Medal of Freedom With 13 Others
Washington - An emotional President Bill Clinton praised the "keen intellect and loving heart" of sometime political rival Rev. Jesse Jackson, and the leadership of the iconoclastic general who disagreed with his strategy during the Kosovo air war, as he bestowed the Presidential Medal of Freedom .....

[woodleydem]

49. I am in no way disputing the fact that Clark is an exemplary individual

who has views that fit right in line with the Democratic party. All of those awards and statistics you posted add up to an impressive resume, but its doubtful that the average voter will put as much research into a candidate as you. Now, obviously when Clark runs, he will have a narrative that goes over all of his accomplishments. But in the eyes in the average voter, being the Honorary Knight Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire isn't going to resonate as much as taking a $1 billion budget deficit and turning it into a surplus within two years while at same time attracting high-tech industry to rural Virginia. Again, Clark's numerous accomplishments are impressive, and if he were to get the nomination, he would have my support. But I believe that Warner would fare better in a national election due to his executive experience and his easily identifiable record in job production, budget management, social issues, and other daily issues which governors confront.

My feeling is that Clark realizes that his lack of political experience will most probably prevent him from getting the Democratic nomination outright. I believe he is trying to position himself for some strong finishes in the primaries to get on some Vice Presidential short lists. Being a Vice President for four (or eight) years would give him some executive experience to supplement his exemplary military and foreign policy knowledge. Just my opinion.

[FrenchieCat]

50. Your opinion is accepted, and certainly makes sense on its face....

But still, don't forget to add character, personality, image, charisma and vision to the porfolio of any Democratic potential we might entertain. Those traits, I dare say, are just as...if not, more important with our very uniformed and shallow electorate.

But certainly, your points make sense.....

Me, I still feel that we need a leader with vision. I will, for the last time in this thread...stress that relying on the '92 game plan and not including NS/FP when we review a candidate's profile to be a weak way to go. Almost predictable (hence my reference to "boxed" several times); and almost as predictable as the election recipe that the Bush Admin, who will still be in power, will be orchestrating in the foreground....all those many "events" that will be key to both the '06 and the '08 elections. Remember that this White House is 24/7 strategizing the politics of it all.

They got us once...when we didn't feel the need to go beyond getting a 30+ Vietnam hero and, the entire time, telling ourselves that those qualifications shouldsuffice in beating a Wartime President after 9/11.

Who knows what the circumstances will be in 2008? Guess we will just have to wait and see. I just don't want to see us shortchanging ourselves when it comes to strategizing.

And I certainly advise against listening to any pundit pap to show us the way. That's one thing that I am certain of....
:hi:

[DemsUnited]

12. Mark Warner would make a GREAT SENATOR

I live in VA, am a big fan of Mark Warner, but am not sure he'd be electable as a presidential candidate. However, I think he'd have a great shot at taking the Senate seat away from jacka** George Allen in 2006. He's currently thinking about both options and I truly hope he decides to go for the Senate.

[phylla]

15. Mark Warner probably could beat Geo. Allen

and that would be wonderful, but Mark Warner is not a legislator, he is an executive.
He has strongly indicated that he is not interested in the Senate seat.

President? Now that is another matter....he has strongly indicated that he is running.

The Combination of Wes Clark and Mark Warner would be a powerful ticket.

I suspect that Warner is a shoo-in for the vice presidential spot-- no matter who comes out on top of the ticket.

Mark has a personal charisma that is quite evident in face to face meetings, he does not come across as strong on the telly. But he is smart and grounded.

Wes/Mark. my dream ticket
Mark/Wes. next best

anything else? another 4 years of repub. mayhem. And sadly so.

[livinginphotographs]

19. I second that.

I think it's way to early in his career to be grooming him for a presidential bid. He'd make a great Senator though.

[Walt Starr]

18. It's possible, but I'm a Hillary man from now until she is not in the race

:shrug:

If he's nominate, he's got my vote, but I'm for Hillary until she's not a factor or she wins the presidency.

[MsTryska]

23. Why do you like Hillary, Walt?

I'm actually surprised by that. (not that we know each other so well) but i jsut sort of presumed you were part of the Anti-DLC set.

She has been giving me the willies lately – and I’m just not sure her run would be that successful – the Machine has had 12 years to chew on that bone….

[Walt Starr]

25. Because of how much it will piss off the Reichwingers

I've been saying for years to Reichwingers, "if you support giving these unprecedented powers to George W. Bush, I don't want to hear a peep out of your mouths when Hillary gets elected."

[MsTryska]

29. baha!

i suppose that's as good a reason as any.

[Walt Starr]

35. As far as I'm concerned, 2008 is all about Revenge of the Good Guys

:evilgrin:

[MsTryska]

37. yeah well.....

payback's a bitch isn't it?

hee hee.

[napi21]

39. I really like Hillary, but I don't think she should run for Pres.

I think she's very capable, and I understand you wanting to piss off the Pubs, BUT...I WANT A DEM IN THE WH!!! I think she has too much baggage to be able to win.

Believe me, if we can take back the WH, we'll have ample opportunity to piss of the Pubs for a long time!

[frankly_fedup2]

26. I have heard several times that the Republicans are looking toward

Allen, our great Republican Senator, because "they say" he is still young, handsome (gag), and a staunch Republican.

They've got the staunch Republican part right. He always has his big nose up some higher-ranking Republican's ass. Now I know why. He has NEVER crossed party lines.

[phylla]

27. Allen has not ever had an original thought

What a smarmy, pandering, suck-up!

I and many others have begged Mark Warner to run against Allen just to see that greasy, smirking grin wiped off his shiny face.( or would that be two-face?)

My blood pressure is rising just thinking about the total zero.

[abluelady]

31. Neither has George W.

and look what has happened. My fear is all those who voted for George W. Bush will vote for George Allen.:puke:

[FrenchieCat]

34. I agree.

We cannot underestimate or overestimate our current electorate. To do so is to set ourselves up for "surprises". Better cautious and not too dismissive as to who Republicans will come up with to stand against us in 2008.

[LittleClarkie]

41. Two things

Bush was able to slip under the radar in 2000 because he was a Governor instead of a Senator. I'm thinking that Allen has had too much face time as a Bush admin toady to try and pull the "Compassionate Conservative" moderate act he'd need to run for Prez.

Which leads me to my second point. In 2000 Bush faked it as a moderate. Even in 2004, the "face" people at the RNC Convention were all the moderates. The Conservatives were hidden. Sadly, they're not hidden any more. Mask has come off. I'm not sure they're going to be able to pull that off again.

I think, gag me, that Newt has a better chance. He went bye bye for a while, and came back more middle of the road. He's coming across as more reasonable right now. Sick thought, but he sure does look better to me than Frist or Allen. Like saying I'd rather the flu than the clap, but hey, I'd also rather Nixon over Bush. Whatcha gonna do.

[LibDemAlways]

36. Allen is also a staunch racist and

would have to explain past actions like the noose he kept in his law office, the Confederate flag he used as living room decor, and a pesky incident back in 1970 when he defaced his high school with racist graffiti, was caught, and had to publically apologize. I think once the repukes start digging into his background a little bit, they'll back off. Race is the one issue they are still slightly squeamish about. Witness what happened to Lott.

[LittleClarkie]

42. You wanna know something. I'm from Virginia originally

It pains me no end that Allen is the Senator from my original home state.

When is he up for election?

[LibDemAlways]

43. He's up again next year.

By the way, in case you didn't know, Allen is not from your home state. He was born and raised in So. Calif., graduated from Palos Verdes High School in a well-to-do repuke neighborhood near the ocean, and didn't leave until his dad became Redskins coach in the early 70's.

[FrenchieCat]

44. So is that his "hair" or a rug that he's sports?

I'm currently doing "oppo" research.

Personally, I think it's Club for Hair type stuff sitting up there.

[LibDemAlways]

48. Don't know if it's genetic, but his

dad had a full head of hair when he was in his early 50's. I was in Allen's HS graduating class and saw the Allen family quite frequently. I think the hair is his, although I'm sure the color is from a bottle. He's 52.

[LittleClarkie]

47. I'm not in my home state anymore either

even so, CARPETBAGGER!!

So how is the shmuck looking in the polls. Strong, or not so much?

[WMliberal]

45. gawd I hope not. He's milquetoast as they come.

To describe him to non-Virginians: Think Liebermann with a caffeine addiction.