This Entire Filibuster / Nuclear Option "Fight" is a Planned Sham

[David Zephyr]

The so-called up-coming "fight" over judicial nominees between the Democrats and Republicans in the Senate is as real of a fight as televised wrestling matches. It's all show biz, folks.

And,why, tell me, are the Democrats in the Senate making like they are going to "stand their ground" and be tough about two lousy nominations, when they completely just rolled over and played dead on real issues like illegal warmongering in Iraq and the wholesale stripping our citizens of their constitutional civil liberties?

I don't give a flying ..... about Bill Frist's "fight" with Harry Reid over two nominations. It's a fixed fight anyway. It's just showbiz.

I do care about this stupid, illegal war and how it is draining our nation's very blood and soul away from us.

I am absolutely sick of watching the Democrats now pretend to finally be drawing a line in the sand over two court nominees when they facilitated George W. Bush's illegal war and his shitty Patriot Act as much as the Republicans.

Senate fight over court nominees. What a sham.

I believe that Reid and Frist have already cut a deal and are having a great time making their "bases" believe how much "resolve" they have.

What a joke.

[Demi_Babe]

1. sorry but I'm not with ya 100% on this one

[wtmusic]

2. Harry Reid went up against the Mafia

that takes some resolve, my friend. Maybe he has cut a deal. That doesn't mean he lacks resolve.

Calling it "just showbiz" is saying Harry Reid doesn't give a shit. If you have *anything* to back that up, we have a discussion.

[evlbstrd]

5. I agree.

He has put up quite the fight. And Senator Byrd has shown what the Senate is supposed to be. I love the way he waves his copy of the Constitution as he speaks.

[orleans]

3. did you see boxer today?

she had charts going on again, and did a major thing on rogers brown. i get the feeling she means business.

[NightOwwl]

21. I love Boxer...

especially when she pulls out those big charts of hers. :7 :loveya:

[zann725]

30. She's amazing with all her visual aids! I emailed her & thanked her!

I'm soooo proud of her. She's always so well-prepared and passionate.

[David Dunham]

4. This is all about keeping abortion rights, which outdue the war

[David Zephyr]

6. Complete B.S. Look at how many Dems voted with GOP for the P.B.A.B.

In case you have forgotten, I have provided you a link below of the Democrats in the Senate's treachery with regard to protecting a woman's reproductive rights.

Even Tom Daschle hurried back to Washington to be sure to vote for a bill that took no consideration for the "life of the mother" into account.

Even dear old Harry Reid voted for the Republicans' phony "Partial Birth Abortion Bill" which endangers a woman's life and interferes between her and her physician about her health.

In fact, I think some 18 Democrats in the Senate either voted with the Republicans or didn't bother to even show up.

Don't try and tell me or anyone else that the Reid/Frist "fight" is about abortion. That dog doesn't hunt.

This is a chance for Democrats to look "tough" to their base, many of whom view them correctly as spineless, corporate whores.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00051

[evlbstrd]

7. I can only hope that the Dems win this fight.

Yeah, there are going to be compromises, back room deals. If they give up too much, the Democrats will have as much trouble in '06 as the Republicans.

[David Dunham]

8. This is fight about safeguarding constitutional rights. Forget the war

This is a fight about domestic issues that Dems care about. The war is entirely separate.

[David Zephyr]

11. Forget the War? That's exactly what Reid wants us to do.

No, I will not "forget the war". And how was supporting the Patriot Act "safeguarding constitutional rights" as you suggest?

[JRob]

45. "spineless, corporate whores"

Yes it's true, most of them are. And the concept of "political theater" is nothing new. But what if the theater is designed to measure the public temperature? Certainly the right has been more notably stimulated in the recent past and look at the complexion of our govenment...

[LittleClarkie]

9. I'm sorry that giving wingnuts lifetime appointments doesn't bother you

It does bother some of us however.

Lovely tinfoil hat you're wearing. Is it new?

[gumby]

16. But the Democrats have already approved over 200

extremist wing-nuts to the Judiciary. Doesn't that bother you?

[LittleClarkie]

18. Are you telling me that every last single Bush nominee was a nut?

They couldn't stall them all. Then there really would be a crisis. As it stands, we've given Bush 90% of the judicial nominees he wanted. He. can't. have. these. Done. Finished. Line drawn. Right here. No further. These are the ubernuts. No approval for you.

[beaconess]

36. Which extremist right wing nuts have the Democrats approved?

Be specific.

[LittleClarkie]

44. What I'm getting

is that approving any Bush nominee means you approved extremists. But who in their right mind thought we'd filibuster 200 nominees. Then there really would be a crisis.

This tinfoil hat stuff is getting me down. The Senate Dems have picked this fight, not because they're in cahoots with the Repubs to hoodwink the American people, but because they decided this was the important fight. I can understand disagreeing, but to say that there is some sort of conspiracy afoot is near ludicrous.

During the last election, it was said that Kerry should have settled on one main theme or issue. But everyone wanted THEIR issue to be "it". I see the same happening to Dean, and also to Reid. No matter what they decide is important to work on first, someone is going to be unhappy.

[beaconess]

57. Well said!

[Rowdyboy]

10. I respect your opinion tremendously....

But on this we must disagree. I've followed politics since 1968 and I think Harry Reid is the savviest leader the Dems have had since LBJ. I have no idea why you hold Reid in such complete contempt, but I would be very interested in hearing your reasons. I really think he's done an exceptional job considering the position he's in.

You ignore potential Bush Supreme Court nominees when you belittle the importance of the judicial filibuster fight. It is not a joke and I don't believe in any secret deal. I truly believe it is a very dangerous game that the fundamentalist Christians are forcing the Republicans to play.

Just because I care about judicial appointments doesn't mean I don't care the war, the Patriot Act, the National ID or anything else. Thats simply not a fair deduction.

Sorry, I just can't share your cynicism. Its too bleak for me.

[David Zephyr]

27. And I respect you, too. RB.

I wish I wasn't right on this, but I'm afraid I am. Sorry.

[Rowdyboy]

29. I truly believe you're wrong, but I've been mistaken many times before....

Many, many, maaannnyyyyyyyy times before. Guess we'll know in a week or so now won't we! Which EVER way it goes, we're still so helplessly deep in Bush-shit that I'm not sure we can ever dig our way out.

Whichever of us is right, Bush has three more years to destroy our institutions and undermine the New Deal so, basically, we're screwed either way.

And on Memorial Day we get "Faith of My Fathers"-a two hour puff-piece political commercial pushing John McCain's candidacy for president. Maybe Wes Clark, Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer or John Edwards should write a biography? I'm sure it would get equal treatment, right......? :sarcasm:

[depakid]

31. A savy leader?

Look at his record- the man's a complete failure. He's handed the far right everything they've asked for!

Hell, he even crossed over and voted with them on the bankuptcy bill!

It won't suprise me one bit if he rolls over in this fight too.

He flaps his lips a lot- but thus far his actions have amounted to a big fat zero.

[The Straight Story]

12. Any room on this bandwagon?

I won't comment on the Reid part but I will agree to the whole sham angle. Dems seem of late times to be blowing hot air to make people feel good, then vote the opposite way while complaning about it.

Bush did not win the election, he walked away with it while the dems looked the other way.

[David Zephyr]

14. This is all show biz and makes the Democratic Leadership look tough.

Thanks.

I don't even believe there will be a "fight" and if there is, it won't last long and both sides will claim to have won.

Meanwhile, the disaster in Iraq continues, the dollar sinks lower and lower, our standard of living declines, our jobs are sent overseas, our prisons fill up and our nation's citizens live on the brink of financial ruin should they become very ill and need serious health attention.

Oh, and then there are two nominees to fight about...to show some resolve about. Pullleaze. Thanks for your comments.

[gumby]

13. Did you read this article?

If you haven't, you'll probably like it.

http://makethemaccountable.com/podvin/more/050510_NuclearOption.htm

I really like Podvin and agree with him and you.

[David Zephyr]

17. Wow! I'm not alone! Thanks. Podvin says it better than I do!

Well, I'm not alone. Thanks! :hi:

[flpoljunkie]

41. Podvin is wrong when he says Dems not in favor of independent judiciary.

"Democratic senators will not make a partisan presentation in favor of an independent judiciary since doing so would alienate the corrupt establishment whose acceptance they so desperately crave."

Democrats, as well as most people in this country, want an independent judiciary--judges who do follow settled law and do not attempt to legislate from the bench. Podvin is just wrong about this.

[KoKo]

40. A new Podvin! I missed that....thanks for the link.........

:yourock:

[KoKo]

43. Bone to pick with Podvin: When Joe Biden put Clarence Thomas on Bench

and Clinton gave NAFTA to us as the price of his election we Dems started down the road to Hell!

From Podvin's article:

When Democrats let Scalia become the benchmark for tolerable judges, the fight to preserve the judiciary was lost. The only question now is whether Republican nominees will be forced to affect the pretense that they are civilized or whether they can just start ripping up the Bill of Rights during their confirmation hearings. Scalia opposes the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the principle of one-man one vote, so it is going to be difficult for Bush to find a more extreme judicial candidate without canvassing the German émigré community in Buenos Aires.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. Oh, it was earlier than that

It started when Dems went along with Reagan's military buildup and cruel proxy wars in Central America and sat idly by as hiring permanent replacements for strikers became standard procedure and thousands of farmers were ruined by predatory lending and high interest rates. There were a few valiant holdouts, but by and large, the Dems were all too ready to cave.

I agree with what Malloy said on his program tonight. The Dems themselves are partly to blame for what is happening now.

[funflower]

15. It's about the judges, not the senators.

So some democratic senators aren't everything we'd like. The only thing standing between us and a RW nightmare is the judiciary. If * gets every appointment he wants, we'll have a lot more opinions like Bush v. Gore.

[gumby]

20. Bush has already gotten all his judges except 7.

This is a food-fight. The 7 that the Dems are fighting are indeed extremists, but so were all the other ones that the Dems approved.

This food-fight is a skirmish about the last squeak from the Democrats loosing all "their" power -- never mind our democracy -- the Democrats HAVEN'T spoken up about anything else on Bush's march to fascism. They have FAILED to protect the values of the Constitution. These 7 judges are a footnote.

[LittleClarkie]

25. Prove to me that all 200 were at the same level of substandard extremism

They couldn't all have been as bad as these 7. These are the judges who cost Daschale his job. Don't tell ME they don't matter.

[gumby]

28. First of all, I don't want to fight with anyone here,

especially you, LittleClarkie.

However, although I haven't researched those judges that have been approved, I'll bet dollars to donuts that they are cut out of the very same cloth as the 7 that are being blocked.

Bush WOULDN'T have nominated them otherwise!!! You don't think Bush or his handlers aren't extremists?

This "nuke-you-ler option" is a proxy fight. We can only guess at what it really means. Everyone has a guess.

To me, it has little to do with judges. Since the Democrats have already approved over 200 of Bush's appointments, it seems that this fight is about something else.

Describing the rejected 7 as "substandard" extremists is very generous. (hehehehe)

[funflower]

32. Without the filibuster, he'll have the next 200 appointments without so

much as a discussion.

[NightOwwl]

19. So would you prefer they just lay down and play dead...

on this issue also? Yeah, a lot of Dems let us down big time on October 12, 2002. And to top it off, they let BushCo steamroll them for another 2 years. But look what has happened since Reid became Senate Minority Leader. They have grown a spine, and I'm not going to bash them for finally standing up to these crooks.

I also disagree with your assessment that these nominations aren't important (or "showbiz" to use your terminology.) You may not care if our courts become filled with Scalia/Thomas clones, but I do, and I'm glad they are fighting for Dems like me, who care about preventing a complete takeover of this country by radical extremists.

[David Zephyr]

22. As Gumby correctly points out, they already approved over 200

And Harry Reid has signalled his approval of Scalia being Chief Justice to the White House.

------------------------

Reid Says He Could Back Scalia for Chief Justice
Comments Anger Liberals And Thomas Supporters

By Michael A. Fletcher
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 7, 2004; Page A04

Partisans on both sides of the debate over judicial nominees voiced displeasure yesterday with incoming Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid's comments indicating that Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia could make an acceptable nominee for chief justice.

In an interview Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press," the Nevada Democrat said that although he often disagrees with Scalia, he could support him to be chief justice of the United States because he is "one smart guy." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41270-2004Dec6.html

[LittleClarkie]

24. Yes they've approved 200

they're done now.

Are we to disapprove every damn Conservative for being just that?

Then we'd be no better than the Republicans under Clinton, who would vote down a nominee merely for BEING a Clinton nominee.

[NightOwwl]

26. Harry Reid knows how to play politics.

Just because he says he could support him (which, considering the fact that Scalia is already on the Supreme Court, makes this a moot point anyway) doesn't mean he would support him.

[David Zephyr]

38. Playing politics and leadership are not the same thing.

Actually, I do think you are right. He's playing politics on this issue to look "tough" when he gave the farm away on matters of real importance...you know, like the War in Iraq and the Patriot Act.

[KoKo]

46. Agree, the Daschle/Reid system of Governance sold us "down river."

No matter how many times I coughed down those "hair balls" that "Daschle has a plan" and now "Reid has a plan, in the back of my mind was always:

"WHAT HAVE OUR DEMS DONE FOR US LATELY."

I think that David's comments are true. That some of us hope that we've misjudged our spineless Dems might be true with "wishful thinking." My bet's on David...I hope I'm proven wrong. :-(

[Eliot Spitzer 2006]

64. Scalia was confirmed to the Supreme Court with a vote of 98-0

Where was Ted Kennedy during his confirmation? Actually, I think Scalia is a principled judge - he sided against State Farm and upheld punitive damages (he said there is nothing in the Constitution that forbids them) and he also said that burning an American flag is protected speech under the First Amendment. I think he's right on those two issues.

[beaconess]

37. Cite the ENTIRE quote

Reid left a loophole wide enough to drive a truck through:

In an interview Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press," the Nevada Democrat said that although he often disagrees with Scalia, he could support him to be chief justice of the United States because he is "one smart guy." Reid qualified his statement, however, saying Scalia first would have to overcome "ethics problems," including his refusal to recuse himself from a case involving the Office of the Vice President after accompanying Vice President Cheney on a duck-hunting trip to Louisiana in January.

[Lexingtonian]

23. um, just because you don't understand it

for what it is doesn't mean your guess is good...it means that your guess is wild.

Secondly, can someone please explain to me where all this defeatism is coming from? Is there a yard sale somewhere where everyone can find an affordable kind? I've spent the last three days, maybe a few more, beating up on people who really should know better than talking about giving up at this point. I know it's all the psychological exhaustion of many years talking, but...giving up on the Party when the fight is finally really getting taken to the Other Side? Did Sherman stop in Georgia and say "Oh, it's been quite enough, I'm tired of it...can we just do something else now? How about some baseball, anyone?"

[suigeneris]

33. Wrong and dangerous

Bloody hell, there are few things if any Bush can do that have longer term catastrophic consequences for our political philosophy than nominate lifetime judges, especially to the appeals bench and absolutely to the supreme court. And if you think the next batch won't be more extremist once abolishing the filibuster delivers him carte blanche, think again.

Don't buy this analysis people, it's mistaken and extremely counter-productive. Get in the fight and support our senators every way you can. When Bush puts three more Scalias on the court it will be way too late for regrets.

[seaglass]

34. Then what's the deal? Maybe it's my lack of imagination but

I'd like to hear what you think is the outcome that will make supporters of both sides feel like they won.

[beaconess]

35. You're just flat out wrong

[KoKo]

39. I think much of what you say might be true...but this is my last hope for

the Dems. So, I signed the Kennedy and Reid petition, and I've faxed Dole and Burr and I figure if they can't stand up for this one...then they are dead to me.

Where are the DEM Senators speaking out in support of John Conyers? Where are the Senators speaking out against Credit Card companies "doubling the monthly minimum payment" after they passed the "Bankruptcy Bill." Will they LOCK STEP vote against Bolton nomination?

The "Cow was out of the Barn" with the Dems long ago when Daschle after Jefford's defection giving us a brief majority after 2000 Selection, gave Bush every appointment he wanted including the very people who had been involved with the Florida Recount who trashed our Dems resistence against a Bush P-Residency.

I think you are correct, but I hold out one "last hope" for them. I have to do this.. for my own sanity.

Thanks for posting this, though. As discouraging as it is, I understand your discouragement. Preparing folks that our "Dems" might fall on their face again..is maybe wise. There are still so many DU'ers pumping that John Kerry will save us that it's good to have a "reality check."

[David Zephyr]

48. I'd forgotten about the "Bankruptcy Reform Bill", KoKo

I think 75 Democrats in the House voted for the Bush Bill. I don't know what the count was in the Senate.

[KoKo]

51. Here's some info on how Dems voted on "Bankruptcy Bill."

Bankruptcy Bill Said to Hit Poorest Americans Hardest
... Senators on Thursday passed the bankruptcy reform bill, which political ... The Senate rejected more than 25 Democratic amendments to soften the bill's ...
www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0312-03.htm - 22k - May 17, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages
< More results from www.commondreams.org >

[David Zephyr]

53. Thanks for the stats: 18 Democratic Senators including Reid

So that's 18 Democrats in the Senate plus the 75 Democrats in the House that went along with Bush's bankruptcy "reform" bill.

[Hippo_Tron]

42. It's staged in the fact that we only fillibuster certain judges, BUT...

It's still an important issue.

Here's basically how I feel about it. Bush has probably nominated dozens of judges that aren't really fit to serve on the bench. Democrats couldn't realistically fillibuster all of them, so they only picked the absolute worst of the bunch because frankly it does favor us politically. However, once Frist started making noise about the "nuclear option" that's when it became important. This isn't about the judges anymore. It is now about the minority's right to fillibuster. Sure it's also about the 2006 election and about Bill Frist's presidential bid in 2008 and a lot of pandering is still involved, but there is also an important issue at stake now.

[David Zephyr]

47. Frist is whipping up the religious right & Reid gets to look like a boxer

Senator Frist already had his shindig several weeks ago with Rev. Dobson and the whole religious right crowd about judicial nominees. It whipped up his base and Reid, desperately needing to look like he's "fighting for us, the little people" after caving on every major issue of our time (which would be illegal war making and removing constitutional civil liberties in my book) are now having this "mano a mano" showdown.

There will be no shutting down of the government as I've said in the past, but boy does this whip up the base for both parties...and divert attention away from the real issues: war and peace, the economy, jobs, education and health care.

Popcorn anyone?

[vman13]

49. First Of All....

...The Patriot Act was passed 20 days after 9/11. To vote no against something called the "Patriot Act" 20 days after an attack on our country would be political suicide. I'm not at all surprised it passed with bipartisan "support." If they had truly read it, more of them(most of them) would have voted no and probably would have lost their seats in the '02 mid-terms. The question now is: would you rather have some Democrats in the Congress or none(which would have been the case after '02, and if you remember Dems still got their asses kicked)? I'm not making apologies for them, but most of what they are doing is just trying to survive politically.

As for the War in Iraq, I completely agree. Dems copped out.

As for the Judicial Nominees fight, I think this is where you're completely off base. The importance of this issue can never be understated. You forget that these are lifetime appointments, and Circuit courts are just one step away from the Supreme Court. Don't try to come on here and pretend that this is just some wedge issue to distract people, because it's so much more than that. The decisions these judges make effect millions of people ,and living in Texas, I'll be damned if Priscilla Owen manages to extend her power. She's bad enough on the Texas court, she doesn't need to effect the legal systems in other states.

[David Zephyr]

50. I respect your opinion.

and I disagree. This is politics, not a fight. There will be no government shutdown, but I do respect your opinion and your "fighting" on this one.

[AlGore-08.com]

54. Re: Patriot Act. "Avoiding political suicide" is not an acceptable excuse

When those Senators took office, they didn't swear to protect and defend the Constitution "unless doing so would be political suicide". It's their job to make tough decisions, not to run away at the first sign of potential unpopularity. It's their job to know the difference between something they can compromise on, and something they have to draw the line on.

[KoKo]

52. Well....Reid "The BOXER" has always left me cold. Reid the "Strategist"

would have been something I could rally round. How we can have Reid going against that "sychophantic/Right Wing Fundie/Toadie Frist...and that mean as Hell Texas Toad..calling himself "The Hammer" and proud of it, too...Tom DeLay running the Repug House is just beyond me.

Our Dems best people were Daschle,("Mr. Cool Tan and Tie" and "Hey, My wife is a lobbyist for UAL, etc." and "btw, I have a strategy" for 2006 & 2008)...

And now that HE's GONE on to the scence comes the "Mild Mannered Boxer from Nevada," Mr. Harry Reid.."COME ON DOWN HARRY...you've won the PRIZE," (the announcer says).

Oh puleeze no wonder the "Media Whores" laugh at us. :-(

[Geek_Girl]

55. Democrats have got to draw the line in the sand somewhere

You may be right this could all just be show. But being the minority dems have got to choose and pick there battles wisely and this is Reid's strategy. so far he's doing good. Poll numbers are dropping rapidly for the GOP and this could help democrats in '06. I would give Reid the benefit of the doubt and lets see if his strategy pans out.

[PurityOfEssence]

56. How can I like an anti-choice Mormon?

Yet I do.

He has a soul.

This isn't just a show.

How it sorts out is another question, but the kids were good today; Dorgan was a champ.

Drifting toward the middle is cowardly in general and idiotic when dealing with hate-filled monarchists, but I think the best and brightest are digging in their heels, and the rest should rally.

Isn't Dick Durbin just the best? Illinois has really shown itself to be a bastion of thought, what with him, Jan Schakowsky and others.

Tight maneuvering in inland seas are the mark of greatness.

We shall see.

Funny, Tsushima's centenary is just a few days away...

[suigeneris]

63. There's room in the party to oppose abortion but Mormons

are not as extreme as you might think. I looked it up. Mormons permit abortion for rape, incest, the life AND the health of the woman. Mormons get abortions with their church's approval. I can live with that.

[AVID]

58. I agree

they will lay down

Pathetic when it comes to the walk

[BeFree]

59. Good point DZ

They let all the horses out of the Barn and now they make a big show out of closing the doors!

I would, of course, hope you are dead wrong and that we don't know what's up.... but you make some good points which explain this situation very well.

[bemildred]

61. Yep. Big dog-an-pony show.

Reminds a bit of FDRs "court-packing" theatrical. Real important
work is done in the dead of night, and unanimously or nearly so.

I don't claim to have it all figured out, but it works just purely
as a distraction from all the other ugly shit being done and not
done.

I will be surprised if the filibuster is really disposed of, as it
is a principal instrument in the thwarting of the popular will, but
who can say with these loons?

[googly]

62. For crying out loud, the judiciary is all we have got left....

they have the senate, the house, state houses, governors...fricking
majority everywhere except the majority of judiciary is the only
thing holding the wingnuts back. Harry Reid better fight to death
on this issue.

[LittleClarkie]

65. Oh well, it's just our democracy

We can make another one right? :sarcasm: