Perhaps you can help me shut a co-worker up RE Clinton.

[Catch22Dem]

I regularly debate my coworker on various topics, but there's one she's always getting me on, and I've never gone back to check her facts (I always forget.)

1. Did Clinton lie UNDER OATH? Ok, so he wasn't upfront about what he did, and I didn't care then and I don't care now, but what are the facts? I was always under the impression that when it came time for a sworn statement, he told the truth.

2. Do people go to PRISON for perjury? I say no way in hell. They might be held in contempt and spend a little time in County or something, but PRISON? Come on. She insists there are people who do hard time for purgering themselves and Clinton should too. I say bullshit to that.

I know this looks like one of those cleverly disguised flamebait posts, but you can go back through 3+ years worth of my posts and you'll know I'm being serious here. I don't do that kind of shit.

Thanks. I'm off to do my own research on this (don't want you people to do ALL my work for me. ;) )

[Hobarticus]

1. Tell her Bill's been outof office for a few years now...

maybe she should get some therapy, and move on. We've got a whole slew of liars running the show now, that she can get her knickers in a twist over.

[snowbear]

2. I agree.. tell her to get a life...

:kick:

[Hobarticus]

6. And, when Bill lied, nobody died...n/t

[Catch22Dem]

7. No, I WANT to burn her on this

I think she's wrong. Look at my post below. I found some good stuff.

[Hobarticus]

12. Buddy, you're having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent...

You will never convince her of anything else. But, good luck!

[Dr Fate]

3. Ask her if she thinks Bush should go under oath...

She will say "no."

Then say- he must be hiding somthing then- why can't he go under oath and "let the chips fall where they may?" Remind her that he and Cheney refused to go under oath during the Iraq Intellignece hearings.

Then ask - is it okay to lie like Bush does, so long as it is not "under oath?"

The trick is to keep directing the conversation towards Bush. Remind her that Clinton is ancient history.

REDIRECT to conversation to Bush and HIS questionable honesty.

[Hobarticus]

4. Yes, do the ol' "GOP Two-Step"...turn it around on her...

Avoid blame...make counter-accusations...

[Bridget Burke]

28. Bush also declined to take an oath when questioned about 9/11.

And refused to speak in public. He & Cheney were questioned together--& no transcript has been released.

How many people did died because of what Monica & President Clinton did?

[Catch22Dem]

5. I found this...

There is a myth about President Clinton’s testimony before the grand jury. The myth is that the President failed to admit his improper intimate relationship with Ms. Monica Lewinsky. The myth is perpetuated by Article I, which accuses the President of lying about “the nature and details of his relationship” with Ms. Lewinsky.

The fact is that the President specifically acknowledged to the grand jury that he had an improper intimate relationship with Ms. Lewinsky. He said so, plainly and clearly: “When I was alone with Ms. Lewinsky on certain occasions in early 1996 and once in early 1997, I engaged in conduct that was wrong. These encounters . . . did involve inappropriate intimate contact.” The President described to the grand jury how the relationship began and how it ended at his insistence early in 1997 -- long before any public attention or scrutiny. He also described to the grand jury how he had attempted to testify in the deposition in the Jones case months earlier without having to acknowledge to the Jones lawyers what he ultimately admitted to the grand jury -- that he had an improper intimate relationship with Ms. Lewinsky.


http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/answerpr1.html

[Gold Metal Flake]

19. From The Hunting of the President website timeline

http://www.thehuntingofthepresident.com/


"January 17, 1998 President Clinton, testifying under oath to lawyers in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case, denies having had an affair with Lewinsky. He reportedly acknowledges having had an affair with Gennifer Flowers, a charge he previously denied."

The above was not perjury. Perjury must be material to the case at hand, and the Monica lie was not material to the Paula Jones sham. It was still a lie under oath.

We do not have to defend Clinton in order to condemn Bush. I am not a big fan of the Moderate/right democrat Bill Clinton.

Go ahead and lay the lie stuff down. Then ask if that all she has. Then, lay in with all the lies of Bushco.

If Bush just had an affair, instead of laying down our counterterror efforts until we got hit, stealing the treasury, stealing our civil rights, stealing our clean air and water, strealin our prominence and legitimacy in the world, and possibly stealing our future and lying about all that AND lying to start a war, I'd give him a pass on it.

I also suggest you get a .wav file of his evil snicker and play it over and over in her direction. Over and over.

[Pepperbelly]

22. No ... that was a characterization of the PJ question ...

The question was whether or not he had sexual relations with Lewinsky under the definition of sexual relations established in that particular case. He did not, under the definition established.

[eleny]

8. Tell them they look silly clinging to Clinton's penis

[jojo54]

9. I agree with Dr Fate

Keep twisting the facts around on Commander Koo-Koo Bananas.

I worked with someone like that a few years ago, before the chimp stole...aahhh, won the first election. Damn, he was annoying. A young 20 something, fresh out of college. Ya know what his college degree was in? Political science. Ya know where he was working? With a subscription agency!!!

They're all 2 bit jerks. IMHO.

[BlueIris]

10. Ugh. No offense, but, respectfully,

you can't just drop it? Something like that--an argument with an idiot based on something so insignificant--would be too much aggro for me to tolerate. Save on migraine meds and write her off.

[Erika]

11. Bill should have told the investigators to go to hell about his

personal life. That was his one big mistake. Government does not belong in the private lives of consenting adults. He should have refused to testify about his personal life.

Clinton did not believe oral sex was the same thing as sexual relations so in his mind he was not lying. I am among the percentage that agrees oral sex is not the same as sexual relations.

I also think that the Linda broad who carried the tapes is the scum princess of womanhood.

[LiberalFighter]

13. The investigation was about Whitewater...

they couldn't get Clinton on it

so they went fishing and fishing and fishing

What the hell did Monica have to do with Whitewater



I think there should be an investigation on gw*dipshit getting a girl pregnant and forcing her to get an abortion.

[snowbear]

14. Just print out all these msgs and take them into her...

Dear Catch22's Co-worker:

Hope you enjoy all of these messages... Were your ears burning while we were writing them?

:rofl:

[johnaries]

15. Technically, he did not lie under oath.

He was asked if he had sex with Monica. Clinton asked them what definition of "sex" they were using. They replied intercourse. Since he did not have intercourse, then he did not have "sex" under the definition that was used in the question. Therefore, he did not lie under oath. A lawyer's trick, yes: but the legal, technical truth.

[Catch22Dem]

16. Thanks

That's pretty much what I was looking for. It's not as though we have arguments about the Big Dawg, it's just what she throws out there when she's got nothin' else.

[comsymp]

27. The perjury accusation is what pisses me off - It. Never. Happened.

Perjury is making deliberate false statements in a criminal trial.

The Jones business was civil, not criminal. No perjury occurred.

Now, did Clinton skate too close to the fire? Absolutely. He relied on Judge Wright's definition of "sexual relations" (not "sex", dammit!). Unfortunately for him, she wasn't amused by the distinction, which is why she spanked him for making false statements in a civil trial - not perjury.

Edit: @#$% html tags~

[RUMPLEMINTZ]

17. I found

this story about a cop who was sentenced to 5 years for perjury. I'm not sure how long the longest sentence ever was for felony perjury.

http://www.wehaitians.com/ex%20cop%20gets%20five%20years%20in%20louima%20case.html

[Bluerthanblue]

18. BUSH TOOK AN...

"oath" to preserve, (meaning not allow to be shreaded) protect (meaning not allow other to destroy the 'rules' we've been attempting to live by for over 200yrs) and DEFEND- not destroy the Constitution of the United States-

Ask your 'co-worker' if he's kept that 'oath' in light of the patriot act(s)- Then ask why his pants are flaming, or hers are if she tried to 'wiggle' out of the reality that he has destroyed the constitution-and the bill of rights- and that he said he was SURE there were WMD's- and has YET to admit his lies-

Clinton didn't take an 'oath' to the American people to remain 'faithful' to his wife- He and his wife entered into a mutual commitment to each other- He apologized to the entire world, for something none of us had any business knowing, and if the sex-crazed 'fundieheads' hadn't been so deceptivly nosey, we would never have needed to know- about cigars, and blue dresses, and things that have NOTHING to do with his 'charge' to keep- which Bush has trashed, and lied, and continues to lie about-

(Technically Clinton has 'scooch' room in his reply- (my oldest son was begining to really 'grasp' sexuality when all this was going on, and i had to admit, that if i had been caught doing anything short of actually having intercourse, and knew i was gonna catch 'hell' for what i HAD done, i could have 'legitimately' answered no- oral sex, mutual gratification, etc,was NOT 'sex' to my generation- stretching the truth? OOOHHHH yeah, but an out and out lie? no- not as clearly as the lies Bush has gotten away with- and applauded by fools for-)

[radar]

20. Eriposte.com has collected stuff you might get to use....

The Hunting of President Clinton
http://www.eriposte.com/media/bias/media_bias_clinton.htm

[applegrove]

21. Point out that they investigated the Clinton's for wrongdoing for years.

And all they came up with was that he lied about an affair at the office.

That WhiteWater cost $75 Million and was 3 years long (or more). And that the crime Clinton paid the price for..took place in the last year of the investigation.

They knew he had a roving eye. He and Hillary admitted to the issue before he was even elected. We read in her book that she loves the dumb bumb for his mind. And loves the long, long conversation they have that has been going on their whole time together. Shame on them. They love each other for all their faults.

[Beacho]

23. I only have one response when that crap comes up

I look at my watch or a calander and I look at them and say, "Who"?

[Vickers]

24. Or bring up Nixon.

Or Hoover.

Or Harding.

:P

[CWebster]

25. Notice how they still go on about Clinton?

And Democrats think pushing Hillary with "values voters" is a winning proposal with all that baggage?

It's like pitching Kerry again. A tried and true formula for failure.

One is left to wonder if the Democrats want to lose--or have so little faith in their own identity that they are afraid to put up a real stand to win in any meaningful way. The only way they can win is by default---which is the strategy centrists count on.

[cmd]

26. Ask her to take an oath

Then ask her to explain every sexual act in her past in detail.

[drbtg1]

29. I didn't think it was material, thus NOT perjury

1. I thought the matter at hand, to be considered perjury, had to be ruled material, or relevant, to the case. What happened with Lewinsky was immaterial to the Jones case, thus not perjury and not a crime.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonperjury.html

2. When Clinton looked into the television cameras and said, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman", it was certainly sleazy and misleading, but was it a lie? Well, Merriam-Webster's definition of "sexual relations" is intercourse, not oral sex. Starr, as hard as he tried, did not find intercourse.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=sexual+relations

3. You might want to remind this person about the "16 words" and other falsehoods in Bush's 2003 State of the Union Address. Then remind them what the State of the Union Address actually is. Not a campaign speech, but a CONSTITUTIONALLY REQUIRED REPORT from the president to the Congress. The requirements for truth here should be much higher for the SOTU than anything regarding a blowjob. Certainly an impeachable offense, even if the Republicans didn't set the standard so low.

[goodhue]

30. Clinton lied under oath, but it was not perjury

Since it was not material.

[ArkDem]

31. Tell her the real problem with Clinton was that

during Clinton's administration, the Democrats lost:
- 48 seats in the House
- 8 seats in the Senate
- 11 governorships
- 1,254 state legislative seats
- Control of 9 legislatures
In addition 439 elected Democrats joined the Republican Party while only three Republican officeholders went the other way.
While Democrats had been losing state legislative seats on the state level for 25 years, the loss during the Clinton years was striking. In 1992, the Democrats controlled 17 more state legislatures than the Republicans. After November 2000, the Republicans controlled one more than the Democrats. It was the first time since 1954 that the GOP had controlled more state legislatures than the Democrats (they tied in 1968). Among other things, this gave the Republican more control over redistricting.
In fact, no Democratic president since the 19th century suffered such an electoral disintegration of his party as did Clinton.