Sans Kerry Bashing, why isn't Kerry as prolific and angry as Boxer, Reid.

[dhinojosa]

I know he is a good senator and a great politician and he represents the majority of core democratic values. But it just seems that Boxer, Reid, Byrd are the only ones that are really doing all the fighting.

Am I wrong? He should really be biting the heads off these republicans. Maybe I should wait huh? :)

[whistle]

1. I dunno....I think John Kerry should explain his posturing when...

....this is all said and done :shrug:

[Selteri]

2. I hate to say it, but....

I wouldn't put it past his Skull and Bones Membership being that part of his oath isn't to compete like that against a fellow Bonesman, especially a legacy direct of one of the founders like GWB is. Rumors have it that one of the goals of S&B is to elect the Antichrist into the presidency, it woudln't surprise me for how GWB is acting.

[WildEyedLiberal]

6. Hahahahaha...... n/t

[XanaDUer]

9. Thank you.

Posts like that amaze me.

[Andromeda]

60. You've gotta be kidding, right?

I mean, where is your *sarcasm* icon? I'm sure you meant to put it in.

Whew, whatta relief.

[TayTay]

3. He called Bolton a liar

in so many words. He also said that the nomination should not go to the floor because it would be very nasty.

He was very effective. What do you want? Water pistols are 50 feet? What exactly is it that you want him to do in an official hearing of an official committee of the United State Senate? I don't get it. I thought he was great and specific.

[Mass]

4. He does the fighting also

but his style is different (as are Durbin and Dorgan).

A lot of people think that because he does not talk loud, he does not fight.

In addition, I think in your list, you forgot Kennedy.

It is true he is less prolific than Reid, but Reid is the majority leader. I am not sure he is less prolific than Boxer though, she is just more angry (or at least is presented this way by the media in a negative pattern).

[Daphne08]

19. John Kerry is a dignified statesman

who is not going to throw a fit, yet I think he made his point quite effectively!

[GRLMGC]

5. ahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

Sans Kerry bashing? Never.

He has been posing tough questions. Perhaps he's not had an aggressive enough demeanor for your tastes but not everyone functions that way.

[dhinojosa]

7. :) ok, thats all I needed.

thanks

[WildEyedLiberal]

8. Your entire premise is false

He HAS been fighting. In every committee and on every issue that Boxer has been outspoken about, he has too. ANWR, Bolton, Condi, Gonzales, etc.

Edited to add: PLUS his Kids First act, PLUS his ad excoriating Repubes in yesterday's USA Today... how is he NOT fighting???

[emulatorloo]

10. I think you are wrong. . .can I refer you to a recent speech?

It is a hell of a statement and I doubt you have heard of it

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=236759

<snip>

4/21/2005


John Kerry on Republican Congressional Leadership's Failure To Focus on Real Priorities of the American People

Below are the remarks of Senator John Kerry on the Senate floor this afternoon.



Senator John Kerry Washington's Broken: The Nuclear Option April 21, 2005 Remarks As Prepared for Delivery Senate Floor

Mr. President, the Republican “nuclear option” has been discussed endlessly on editorial pages, talk radio, and in this chamber. This ongoing debate is about much more than Senate procedure. At its core it’s a debate about where we’re headed and what kind of nation we want to become. And beneath it are questions about Washington, which seems headed in a direction that clashes with the will of the American people.

The fact we even are talking about this issue is a stark reminder that Washington is not fighting for the broad interests of the American people. From the outside looking in, our Democracy appears broken - endangered by one party rule intent on amassing power, often at the expense of real work the American people elected us to do.

In recent weeks alone we have witnessed as disturbing a course of events as I have ever seen in this city. Republican leaders of Congress are crossing lines that should never be crossed:

The line that says a leader in the House of Representatives should never carelessly threaten or intimidate federal judges. The line that says the leader of the Senate should never accuse those who disagree with his political tactics of waging a war against people of faith. The line that says respect for core constitutional principles should never be undermined by a political party’s quest for power. Most important of all, the line that says a political party’s leaders should never let their thirst for power overshadow the needs and interests of those who elected them - the American people.

<snip>

[saracat]

11. Not so at all. He has been speaking out publically on Bolton.

He even bought newspaper ads against him! These were directed at the republicans on the fence. And his language was much tougher .Don't you remember his anger asbout Bolton in the first hearings? He personally hates the man for Iran Contra!

[XanaDUer]

12. And it was a great ad, too , wasn't it?

...

[emulatorloo]

13. and that USA Today as is worth viewing again

[GRLMGC]

16. Off topic

but Republicans have fucked up faces

[sui generis]

14. We need charisma

because as humans, people get excited about two things: fear and hope.

One of the principles of an enlightened democracy, and a principle of the democratic party is hope, inclusiveness, and an interest in the affairs and responsibilities of humanity and the environment we occupy.

The biggest excitement factor for Roveco is fear: fear of turbans, fear of gays, fear of eeeevil liberals coming to grab your guns, fear fear fear fucking fear, the party of fear.

If you're going to sell hope, you had damn well better be able to get people roaring excited about it, and that requires charisma, outspokenness, charm and real leadership ability.

It may not necessarily require anger at all times but it does require the occasional public smiting of a bad guy, the appropriate level of acid tongue, witty retort, barbed complement and occasional full frontal attack and complete ownership of your statements.

Leaders take calculated chances and good leaders take chances that result in the best outcomes more often than non-leaders do. If Kerry is going to get a political landslide, he is going to have to change what he does and how he does it.

Remember, whatever you are doing right now is enough to give you what you have. If you want something more, or different, or better, you are going to have to do something more or different or better.

[Southsideirish]

18. Excellent point. He seems unable to speak simply and clearly. n/t

[TayTay]

22. Well, perhaps if you had been listening more carefully

you might have noticied that this is the US Senate and this is an official hearing. While it is possible that Kerry could have said, "This bastard is a bullshit artist and a piece of shit as a human being. I think we should completely fuck this nomination and send this douchebag back under the rock he crawled out from under," I don't think it would have gone over well on TV.

Not to mention the fact that some people like their Senators to be classy and forceful and use language that people who have graduated from 8th grade understand full well.

[sui generis]

26. scuse me?

you're arguing both sides there bud. That's not what "some people" said.

Some people said, the guy needs to be able to get other people excited. Nothing about cursing like a sailor for us people who only have an 8th grade edumication.

And he's not forceful either.

Slow down, this isn't a personal attack on you. It's an idea that Kerry could be better, and if Kerry supporters don't think there's room for improvement you're also contributing to the political failure.

[XanaDUer]

36. ?

The poster did not say anything about anyone on here having an 8th grade education.

He (kerry) did some some people excited. Some other candidates did, as well. Some did not excite others as much as they did their proponents. Such is life.

[sui generis]

55. ah hah!

come to the aid of the defenseless will you? :evilgrin: You're right though. A more critical reading of the statement implies that the rest of us only have 7th grade educations.

Anyway, it's ribbing among friends (I hope), not a mortal attack to the death.

:hi:

[XanaDUer]

57. I have no idea if the poster is defenseless.

They seem pretty sharp to me (are you, indeed, defenseless?)

:shrug:

[dhinojosa]

27. Well he obviously shouldn't use "douchebag"....

but he does for example use the word 'Values' too much. "Lets talk about values" was pretty used much throughout his campaign. Throw them some words like imcompetent, treacherous, dishonest, and things like that. Blame them and attack. Sometimes I think he is too much of a good decent gentleman, I would like to see some foam in that mouth of his.

Oh, like remember when Kerry was talking to those union heads "off of the microphone" during his campaign? That is the Kerry I want!!!!!!!!! FUCK YEAH!

My opinion.

[TayTay]

30. I disagree completely

This is a hearing, not a stump speech. The remarks are, ostentibly for the consumption of other Senators. This request for more forceful stuff is out-of-place.

This is ridiculous.

[dhinojosa]

37. So you are not in favor of Reid, Boxers, and Byrds actions today?

Just a question...

[TayTay]

39. Reid? He's not in that committee

and Boxer did just fine in committee. She made cogent arguments against Bolton. So did Kerry. I think they did equally well.

[dhinojosa]

44. I wasn't talking about what committees they are in...

just their actions or their tactics. How about when they have to resort to aggressive actions like raising their voices or using strong wording to make their point? That is what I am talking about...

[ginnyinWI]

52. Foaming at the mouth

That's what the far left wants to see, and also the far right, but it's not what the majority of Americans want to see.

To the majority of Americans, negative, emotional, flaming attacks turn them off, and they simply throw up their hands, say, "they're all alike", and stop listening. There is a reason that those kinds of politicians get mocked on Saturday Night Live.

I think I'd rather have a politician who can engage moderate people, not turn them off. Kerry uses intellect and reason to slice-and-dice very effectively; he doesn't need to scream.

[blm]

15. Guess you missed the full ad he put against Bush-DeLay-Frist in USAToday

just two days ago.

When you find ONE lawmaker who has investigated and exposed more government corruption than Kerry, I hope you will share their name with the rest of us.

I find it odd that you think he's been quiet. He's put out two ads against Bush and has been fighting nominations like Rice and Bolton and traveling the country doing town halls on his universal healthcare for all kids legislation.

Looks like the media controls perceptions for too many here at DU, too.

[dhinojosa]

17. Really, its a yawner, I appreciate the work....

But it needed to be stronger, and attack harder. This lukewarm ad is forgettable.

On edit:
I really shouldn't complain and not offer a possible solution.

Use crafted words like:

INCOMPETENT
FAILURE
CORRUPT
TREACHEROUS
CRIMINAL
UNPATRIOTIC
JINGOISM
DISAPPOINTING


For example: The administration that brought you a failed economy with no return feels that they have great ideas for social security.

Or: America will inherit their failure if we do not stop them.

It needs to be strong and upfront.

[WildEyedLiberal]

21. It's a hell of a lot more prominent than anything else Dems have done

Really, for the non-DU non-political junkie crowd: do you think they're aware of anything else?

It seems foolish to insult something that has a lot higher visibility than C-SPAN for the average American.

[dhinojosa]

23. You are right about that....

the only non-verbal visibility are Kerry articles and bumperstickers on the public's cars.

[Withywindle]

25. I disagree because..

...these words have lost a lot of impact from people on Faux and CNN shouting them at each other all day for years. They're sloganeering and lots of people just tune them out. (I do, a lot) You have to use them very sparingly or else you're just crying wolf.

[dhinojosa]

Agreed.......but using them say in a rare newspaper ad like this....

would really send the message that as a country we are in deep shit.

[blm]

50. I think his approach is helping to attack their true character and selfish

agenda.

[seaglass]

20. Yep you're wrong. n/t

[second edition]

24. Kerry's style is different- it's Presidental !

That doesn't mean he isn't as effective as the others.

[CWebster]

33. Not if ya can't get elected

Even with the votes of people voting against the other guy.

Look Kerry lost--and even if there were voting irregularities, this election should've been a landslide. If Democrats care about winning, they shouldn't elevate Kerry as a candidate again--he is a proven loser against Bush, for crying out loud. Kerry is a liability and I resent that he gets shoved down our throats because he has big bucks and connections. He is a perfect Senator, but he doesn't particularly connect well or have populist appeal- and when he tries to be a real guy he often makes it worse. He also is safe, conventional, somewhat timid in confronting issues in many ways and not the type to blaze a new trail or excite a crowd. Kerry waits for the tide to turn before dipping his toe in--and he doesn't have good extincts about which way the wind is going to blow either.

If McCain were to run he would pound Kerry into the ground after all the cozying up Kerry tried to do with McCain.

[second edition]

38. Oh, he is electable. He just missed this time (or actually won)!

Next time there won't be miskes made.

[CWebster]

40. Do you really feel,honestly

that we have the luxury of giving it to Kerry again. C'mon, there is too much at stake. Someone should break the news to Kerry.

[Mass]

43. If you are right and he happens to run

the primaries will tell him. And if they turn out differently, this is still called democracy.

Why are you so obsessed with 08 anyway.

[Mass]

41. Let say that is your opinion

I happen to disagree with a lot of what you say.

Whether he will be candidate in 2008 or not is not the problem right now. I think a lot of people disagree whether he connects or not. May be you do not connect with him, others may. I dont particularly connect with Clinton or Edwards, for example. I connect better with Dean, Kucinich. I happen to connect well with Kerry largely because he is generally himself (though I agree that when he tries not to be himself, this does not work that well).

And I dont care he has good instincts or not. I care whether I agree with him or not.

[ginnyinWI]

56. you are talking about having a fair playing field

But it wasn't fair. The other side had the media in its pocket. Our side had a weak image as a party. Our party wasn't nearly as well organinzed, and until 2004 didn't have nearly as much money to build it up with. It was an uphill battle against an incumbent during a time of external threat. And Kerry still came within 3% of winning. Think about it that way.

McCain? No match at all, sorry.

[politicasista]

28. Another flamebait post

Just another one to divide us. Go figure.

[dhinojosa]

29. Sans = without....

My intent was not to bash, but ask why Kerry doesn't attack like other senators.

[emulatorloo]

31. "Why Doesnt Kerry Attack" "He Does, Here's An Example" "No Not Rabid Enoug

h" has been the pattern so far. Not sure where this is going except in circles.

[sui generis]

32. okay then, let's make it productive

Judge the performance, not the performer.

Kerry has room for improvement. We don't all disagree on that, but the people who think he is already the acme of perfection, and the people who take any comment about Kerry personally need to realize they are keeping Kerry on a high and narrow pedestal that doesn't allow any change at all.

He really can't move very far before he falls off.

Please, accept and consider some criticism of some aspects of Kerry as rational adults, and put away your flamethrowers.

[dhinojosa]

35. Woooo, very constructive....

I like the way you are wording this.

[emulatorloo]

46. Good Stuff! Now let's set criteria

Are we judging Kerry as filtered by Corporate Media (where the worst quotes are cheery picked)

Or Kerry unfiltered at a live rally/stump speech, where I have seen people cheer, be inspired, weep, etc.

On Senate Committee in a formal hearing?
Or Stump Speech?

What is the golden mean?
Zell Miller or Jack Kennedy?

[sui generis]

51. We have to deal with d. all of the above

because it's not just democrats who get the filtered news, and most people have NOT seen Kerry at a live rally/stump speech or in senate committee.

The opinions that people form about Kerry, right or wrong, are a result of a gestalt of information that forms whatever perception someone ends up with.

So, if perception is everything, then it's important to address charisma, regardless of venue, and it's important to address the big memorable qualities that override the little negatives that sum up to some people not liking Kerry very much.

One of the "biggies" that has always bothered me is the sense that he comes across as stiff, "too" presidential (meaning not dynamic enough to survive a good fight), and just not very exciting, lead the charge, rah rah, etc. His intellect is not at all in question, but the ideas he chooses to back sometimes fall short of blinding me with the brilliance or fairness or justness that would make me say "this guy is The One", and I'm not asking for someone to substitute their snowboarding or windsurfing skills for getting us to unite and blow away black box voting with an undeniable landslide for him.

Intellectual steel is not enough to beat republican stupidity and boorishness. We are going to need diamond, and so he is going to have to turn himself into a diamond.

[emulatorloo]

53. Good Yes all of the above --

and noting that he did very well in the debates with those who watched and were polled afterwards, esp debate one.

[LittleClarkie]

49. Agreed, and by the same token

If those who are fairly kneejerk in regards to Kerry could also open up to the possibility that he might be doing some good work. The "too little too late" people come to mind. Some times that response seems cut and pasted, as if a conclusion has already been made, irregardless of any new facts.

As someone once said, a conclusion is where you stop thinking. We could use some open minds on both sides.

That said, those of us who rather like the big lug also know more than alittle bit about him, as Deaniacs do with Dean and Clarkies do with Clark etc. If a statement is made that we don't think is true, and we can prove it, we're gonna pipe up.

[sendero]

42. Why then...

.... do you take the bait?

[dhinojosa]

45. It's nummy! :) nt

[sendero]

34. Everyone has..

.... their own style and personality.

Kerry has issued some pretty tough rhetoric lately, much tougher than he did in 2004 (IMHO), but he doesn't have the contentious edge that some others have.

Whether this is a calculated move to cultivate a certain image, or it is just who John Kerry is, I couldn't say for sure.

As a Senator, I think Kerry is doing a pretty good job, his vote for Real ID notwithstanding.

[dhinojosa]

47. Yes, from other responses I see. Kerry doesn't have that "anger edge"

I really like Kerry, I really do. I just would like him to step up on the agressiveness and the rhetoric. Oh well, he is who he is. :)

[emulatorloo]

48. I have seen him aggressive/angry in stump speeches

never Zell Millerish mind you, nor is it his dominant modality. Which I don't have a problem w. I don't like anger all the time.

At any rate, corporate media did not show things from stump speeches that challenged bush in an effective way. . .instead they cherry-picked Kerry's worst soundbites, or summarized **very poorly** what he was saying while showing silent shots of speeches.

(meanwhile cherry-picking the best of Bush's soundbites and 'hiding' his bumbling inarticulateness)

[MsTryska]

54. Hmmm....you and i must not be watching the same C-Span....

or on the same email list.

[eridani]

58. He's been getting much more aggressive in the last month or so

Hope he keeps it up.

[Lexingtonian]

59. yep, you do need to wait a little

and you're gonna get your snarky little ass handed to you on a platter.

Have a nice day.