Ivins:If Dems aren't going to stand up for regular folks, to hell with 'em

[flpoljunkie]

Those of us in the beer-drinking, pickup-driving, country-music-listening school of liberals in the hinterlands particularly appreciate his* keen dissection of how the Republicans use class resentment against "elitist liberals" while waging class warfare on people who work for a living.

The unholy combination of theocracy and plutocracy that now rules this country is, in fact, enabled by dumb liberals.

Many a weary liberal on the Internet and elsewhere has been involved in the tedious study of the entrails from the last election, trying to figure out where Democrats went wrong. I don't have a dog in that fight, but I can guarantee you where they're going wrong for the next election: 73 Democratic House members and 18 Democratic senators voted for that hideous bankruptcy "reform" bill that absolutely screws regular people.

If Democrats aren't going to stand up for regular people, to hell with them.

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=miv

*Thomas Frank, author of "What's the Matter with Kansas?" and a recent article in the New York Review of Books, "What's the Matter with Liberals?"

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17982

[smoogatz]

1. Bravo.

Ivins is right on here, as usual. All the Democrats have to run on is economic populism--sticking up for the middle class. The DLC/New Democrat corporate whores are desperately trying to steer the party in the opposite direction. Bad policy, bad politics, and yes--the hell with them.

[peacetalksforall]

2. I'm with you, Molly. The letter Debbie Stabenow wrote to defend

herself nauseated me.

It is very parochial to apply punitive measures to an entire country because of the abuses of some such as the gamblers they keep using as an example. Every good teacher knows that...and the Dems who voted with the Repubs were trying to preach and teach and - some were probably out to get some money out of it. For themselves.

Those Dems and the banking corporations are going to regret this....imo.

[elehhhhna]

4. Tha BA-cklash is hitting MBNA HARD (like 94% drop!) See this

and rejoice at your precognitive powers!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3554066

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. So this new law will have some positive effects?

:shrug:

[WhiteTara]

3. this flies in the face of those who criticized Move On

for being against an unruly Dem.  I have to agree with Molly. 
DINOs belong to ancient history.  Go Molly!

[TomClash]

5. Molly: hugs and kisses

She's right: if the Dems won't help working people and reverse the class war against the middle class, the poor, the sick and the disposessed, then the hell with them.

This is my litmus test, not gun control, not gay marriage, not Terry Schiavo. What will you do to make the lives of working people better?

[flpoljunkie]

6. I recommend your litmus test to all Democrats in the House and Senate.

"What will you do to make the lives of working people better?"

Excellent!

[TomClash]

21. thx eom

[Hidden Stillness]

7. Like Two Different Countries

Unemployed people are unimpressed when rich people tell them how well the rich people's stocks did under Bush--or Clinton.

[OneBlueSky]

8. abso-fuckin'-lutely! . . .

I can't think of anything that has pissed me off more than the Democratic defections on the bankruptcy vote . . . I agree with Molly wholeheartedly . . . if the Democrats can't stand up for us regular folks, fuck 'em! . . . I'm tired as hell of the party playing the Republican lite role, and then patting themselves on the back for it . . .

if I wanted Republican policies, I'd vote Republican . . . and if the Democrats don't learn how to be a true opposition party -- and soon -- they're gonna lose a lot of their base, i.e. people like me (Democrat for about 40 years) . . .

[leesa]

9. I love to see her angry. They are hurting themselves politically by doing

this mealy mouth, appeasement crap for the sake of "bipartisanship". Wake up fools! The GOP has controlled the message for years with this bipartisan nonsense...it's about what's good for the US and her people.

[Dr Fate]

10. I don't trust Democrats who trust Bush's plans. n/t

n/t

[cestpaspossible]

11. I've been badgering my Senator's office

asking for an explanation of votes in favor of the bankruptcy bill, and against Kennedy's min wage amendment and Leahy's amendment. They don't seem to be able to come up with a sufficiently mealy-mouthed answer.

[enough already]

12. But Wait!

Hasn't Molly heard that as Democrats we must hold our nose and tolerate such "moderate" behavior?

[Dr Fate]

15. It's apparently okay to trust Bush sometimes.

Apparently he only lies & cheats about MOST issues.

As I said, I don't trust DEMs who trust Bush.

[Pepperbelly]

13. NO ONE stands up for little people any more. nt

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Got that right!

Too few Democratic pols are willing to take tough stands these days, and it shows. The blue collar/no collars in our country relied on Dems as the voice of the little guy, and we're not hearing that voice anymore. One of my brothers is the only Democrat in a shop of 40 blue collar workers. How did this happen? We let the Republicans frame the issues.

Our party needs to stop talking so much about personal behavior issues (choice, gay marriage*)and start focusing on the economic costs of Repub policies. We need national health care, retirement protection, and other mechanisms for social mobility. When I was a kid, the poor had opportunities through hard work and education to move up, thanks to the supportive Great Society programs. Now, education is costly and not guaranteed to improve your job security because of offshoring, and hard work mostly just gets you tired.

*since I'm new here, I'm not saying this issues are unimportant, I'm just saying that getting folks back to the big tent will be easier when we focus on the day-to-day economic crises.

Whoops. Guess it won't be hard to see why I chose that user name
:silly:

[ieoeja]

37. That IS what Democrats focus on.

Democrats spent the last election running away from rights for gays and women. In most cases it was Republicans who put gay marriage initiatives on the ballot because they knew how unpopular it was.

The other day some numbnut conservative started a thread in here where he compared outrageous comments by prominent Republicans and Democrats. He said he considered the Dems a litle worse which is why he remains Republican, but that he could understand someone leaning the other way. I noted at the time that the majority of his stupid Republican quotes were from elected Republican officials while 100% of the stupid Democrat quotes were from actors, not a single Democratic official (elected or party) in the group.

He couldn't seem to understand that Hollywood does NOT speak for the Democratic party. I believe you are making the same mistake. Just because an activist supports the party doesn't mean the activist speaks for the party.

[Gormy Cuss]

41. Sorry if unclear

We are lacking in the framing game. Dems running away from gay and women's issues was the plan. As far as I'm concerned, on those issues the other side doesn't have any legitimacy, but they used our liberal nature against us and we spent too much time defending ourselves on social issues rather than focusing on why the Dems would be better for the country overall,and how the Repubs were horrible on economic issues. At the end of the day for most people having income security is second only to physical security. Last year didn't feel like the right time to focus on civil rights with a tanking economy and a needless war on the table. I think it's easier to convince reluctant people to accept civil rights during periods of economic prosperity.

By the way, I agree that anyone who thinks outrageous comments by prominent Dems were a little worse than those by Repubs IS a numb nut.

As for the stupid Dem actor comments, I like to point out to my Repub friends that nearly every actor who gets elected IS a Repub so the evidence suggests that Hollywood represents THEM. I live in the only state "governed" by a Republican actor, and he's not the first.

[ChiciB1]

14. Molly Is The Best... Went To See Her Speak When She Came To Florida

and got my picture taken with her. She's been a favorite of mine since I can't remember!

Since she lives in Austin which is very close to where I grew up, I asked her about Killeen, TX. She told it was same ole shit-hole it's always been. I agree. I do go back for my class reunions, but other than that, not some place you want to be.

That's Ft. Hood for those of you who don't know. Crawford is about 40 miles from there. I'm so glad I'm not there now!

Glad to see her spouting off! More, Molly, More!!!

[hollowdweller]

16. This goes back to what Dean said about Republican Lite

I don't think Dean was referring to any far left issues that would be good issues to get ran against on, but the fact that 9 times out of 10 on economic issues, the issues we could BEAT them on, we vote WITH them!

[flpoljunkie]

36. Yet Dean has been publicly silent on the one-sided bankruptcy bill Dubya

has already signed into law. The Senate Democrats enabled this bill to pass by not stopping it when it come up for a cloture vote. The provisions of the one-sided bankruptcy bill, a giveaway to the banks and credit card companies, takes effect in October of this year.

[omega minimo]

17. Dems have to prove they're not owned by corporations like the Repugs

Making sure the next elections won't be rigged and stolen would be a good idea.

Here is another thread on the Tom Frank NY Review of Books essay, "What's the Matter With Liberals."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1742490&mesg_id=1742490&page=

From the discussion (Hi Hidden Stillness :hi:):
__________________________________
“Our side knows that we are censored and shut out; they think this is the true impression of the world. This is an interesting thing to try to pursue, vital to getting some of these things solved. I wish Dean and the DNC would really study the root of some of these attitudes.”

Whatever the range of reasons that folks refuse to open their eyes to what’s going on, the perpetrators are depending on-- and abusing-- the good faith and trust of all the American people. Democratic party leaders and legislators would do well to look at themselves, while “studying the root of some of these attitudes.” They have GOT TO STOP giving Americans Republican Lite as the alternative to Republican heavies.

Otherwise, the impression that the corporate party liars and hypocrites sit on both sides of the aisle will be proven to be true. Job #1 for Democrats is to convince voters-- oh wait, job #1 is get rid of rigged voting machines... Job #2 is to convince (young and jaded/first-time/Independent/Undecided/disenfranshised) voters that there IS a difference between the two major parties.

[Hidden Stillness]

25. All Becoming One Big Clue

Hi, omega minimo! Yes, this whole subject really is deepening and connecting up, and showing itself to be the "the way back." If Democrats don't act like real Democrats again and help middle-class and poor people--(they are not "little people")--then the Gilded Age Republican oppressor will always win, and we really will lose every protection against the most abject, destitute poverty, a Medieval, hopeless poverty that there will be no way out of, as Bush, Cheney, and the other treasonous war profiteers laugh at us from their next multimillion dollar party. I think you made the point on the "What's the Matter With Liberals?" thread, that these capitalists should be made to wear white tie and tails and a top hat, like that, really showing their economic class, rather than tricking people with the consciously "middle-class" look they effect now. Also, Michael Moore (or whoever owns the rights to the video clip) should make a TV ad of "I call you my base," and play it over and over and over, until it sinks in. We have to make a real point of exposing what rich people are and how they hurt us all--that those who fight for the American people have to win, or everything is lost. Of course, we have to get our Party back first.

If Democrats will not fight for economic issues of the kind that most people face--1) being underpaid; 2) being price-gouged (NOT TAXES)--then why would anyone suffering these things vote for them, because when you suffer this kind of crushing, miserable life and no one will help you, then any issue anybody else talks about all sounds like a distant abstract. The backbreaking, poverty-level wage, dead-end with no promotion kind of job represented by Wal-Mart and all the others can't be fought by the DLC anti-Democrats; after all, who was the ultra-rich Wal-Mart-owning family first associated with when we heard of them during the '90s? Of course, the Clintons, friend of the rich. If Democrats only aid Republican throat-slashers, then the people who are destroyed by this will soon not "appreciate" how much better than the throat-slashers they supposedly are.

This also ties up with the "What's the Matter With Liberals?" thread, because as we were all analyzing, Republicans will never be able to paint us with that "latte liberal" crap, if we ever again start acting like non-rich people, and fighting for what middle-class and poor people need, and help the whole country. GET RID OF THE RICH CORPORATE REPUBLICAN DLC, WHOSE MOST HYSTERICALLY VICIOUS ATTACKS ARE ALWAYS SAVED FOR US.

[Sugarbleus]

18. Molly for President! This Rocks!

I agree with the rest of you; most of the dems we have running things don't seem to "get it". We, the regular people are the heart and soul of this country, of any country. WE HOLD IT UP. We hold it together. By the sweat of our labor we sustain civilization and make men wealthy.

WE EARNED RESPECT and require our just due. I am sick to death of being kicked to the curb by elitist on both sides of the aisle.

I resent being used then thrown away in this economy. I resent being promised things via employment only to have it overturned the next "day". I resent having our jobs offshored and outsourced so the people we formerly made wealthy can aquire even MORE wealth. I resent the investment class that drives all of this.

I'm revolted by the class warfare from both sides.

I'm frightened that we regular folk who clean hotel rooms, make widgets, drive trucks, volunteer, work in dept stores, work in gas stations, and bag groceries can't make enough money (because the rich have driven the cost of living into the stratosphere!) to keep a roof over our heads or afford health care OR be allowed to JUST BE.

I'm horrified over the INTENSE trend to "ACHIEVE" (wealth in this case). Why can't people be allowed to keep body and soul together AND live a simple life???????? Instead of a marathon race to aquire wealth/higher education and KEEP UP with the global economy, why can't we be allowed to live a lifestyle of our choice without recrimination?

I keep saying we should NEVER have allowed deregulation of industry. Trade is fine but NAFTA CAFTA SHAFTA is BAD. Bring back industry/manufacturing. Curb big Corporations and tax them fairly. Get the national economy back into balance so that simple/regular people can have a fair shot at earning a living with a realistic hope of buying a modest home and/or supporting their families. Perhaps there wouldn't be as many homeless folks and working poor. Perhaps social services would see a decline in their roles to the public. From my perspective, this isn't a nation of laws, justice, equality, and charity anymore ('give me your poor, your tired..'), it's a freeforall Pyramid Scheme. I hate it.

And finally, the very LEAST we can do is provide for the unfortunate among us--including ADEQUATE access to health care for every living soul that walks on this soil working or not, young or old, disable or abled. Certainly we should STOP penalizing the crushed and heavy burdened by gutting services like SS,Medicare/Medicaid/housing subsidies and overturning the bankruptcy laws et al

I'm sooooooo disgusted with politics these days; I can hardly come back in here or catch the news. I've been in touch with my state Independent Party...we shall see how that works out.

GO MOLLY! :yourock:

[Starfury]

19. 84% of Americans consider themselves to be middle class.

From http://www.zogby.com/April-ZRA.pdf

"More than eight-in-ten Americans (84%) say they are lower middle, middle, or upper middle class, a new Zogby Interactive poll finds."

84%!! Just think if the democrats actually supported them. Instead, they've let the republicans convince middle America that the GOP shares their priorities.

Edit: this got dropped from my original post:
(Lots of other interesting statistics in this article as well, including how Bush might not lose on SS, how individual investers vote, etc.)

[flpoljunkie]

28. Thanks for the Zogby link, Starfury.

[genius]

20. Go Molly! Now how about backing a real Democrat for President?

If Molly really feels that way, she should jump on board Dennis's campaign. He' the one 2008 candidate who stands for us.

[Disturbed]

22. Opposition Party?

Which party is that?

[tinanator]

27. any party that backs Dennis

which unfortunately, doesnt necessarily include either of the big two.

[xchrom]

23. molly hits it again!

damn she has a way with words -- she nails it.

and the poster who mentioned the heat that moveon was taking for offering a critique of dems who voted for this had it right too.

if we don't tell dems they fucked BEFORE the next election -- how are they going to know what they've done wrong?
when they get it wrong they have to take the heat.

that's how the people lead.

[formernaderite]

24. I love you Molly

"If Democrats aren't going to stand up for regular people, to hell with them.

Exactly...referring to this as a morals debate is over simplistic and exaggerated. This should be the populist fight....and the repubs have won by speaking the language of the common American. Is this Molly's subtle dig at the impending Hillary coronation?

[Al-CIAda]

26. Kick!

[welshTerrier2]

29. Democrats need to pick-up on this great point she made

"The data show that the share of real income growth that has gone to wages and salaries has been smaller than during any other comparable post-World War II recovery period, while the share of real income growth that has gone to corporate profits has been larger than during all other comparable post-World War II recoveries."

In previous recoveries, workers got an average of 49 percent of the national income gains, while corporate profits got 18 percent. This time, the workers are getting 23 percent and the corporations are getting 44 percent -- about one half as much as the share that has gone to corporate profits.

[flpoljunkie]

30. Your Ted Kennedy quote ought to be a call to action for all Democrats.

In the face of their tactics, we cannot move our party or our nation forward under pale colors and timid voices. We cannot become Republican clones. If we do, we will lose again, and deserve to lose. As I have said on other occasions, the last thing this country needs is two Republican parties.
- Ted Kennedy

 

[CWebster]

33. And yet, should anyone demand it

they are quickly marginalized with an ongoing chorus of continuing apologies and excuses defending democratic party complicity and mushy compromises.

[CWebster]

32. Oh look a Dem basher

One of those Leftist purists?

[xchrom]

34. lol -- must be, huh?

[Toots]

38. "What's the Matter with Liberals?

It ain't Liberals it is Democrats. It is getting to the point where even Democrats think Liberal is a dirty word and act accordingly. If Democrats aren't Liberal then hell with them is my belief ....... I believe sticking up for the little guy to be a Liberal trait not Democratic....

[sadiesworld]

39. My favorite Molly quote:

"Populists, as opposed to liberals, do not get particularly excited about culture wars. We do not believe the important differences in this country are about smokers versus nonsmokers or wine versus beer drinkers. This fight is not about yoga and vegetarianism. It is not about lifestyles. It is not about religion. Keep your eye on the shell with the pea under it. It is about who's getting screwed, and about who's doing the screwing. And anybody who tells you different is lying for money."

[flpoljunkie]

40. "It's about who's getting screwed, and about who's doing the screwing."

"And anybody who tells you different is lying for money."

I hope everyone reads your entire paragraph. Molly is speaking the utter truth here.