Why do Democratic leaders want to piss away every advantage they have?

[quaoar]

I refer specifically to the deal that Harry Reid tried to cut with Frist over the blocked judge nominees. He wanted to give Frist a few of the nominees in exchange for forgetting about the nuclear option.

And just as polls show two-thirds of Americans oppose the Republicans on this.

Good Lord. We just can't stand success, can we? Gotta piss it away with some backroom deal.

And what if they made that deal? What's to stop Bush from nominating another group of right-wing freaks to replace the ones who were withdrawn in the deal? And then the whole thing starts again.

[xray s]

1. whatever

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/4/26/133311/075

[Arkana]

3. Exactly

People don't realize that Reid played Frist like a fiddle on this.

[democracyindanger]

6. wouldn't it be great

if people dug just a little deeper before jumping to conclusions?

[quiet.american]

9. Ah -- you beat me to it! :) n/t

[quaoar]

12. Yeah, I saw that

Game of chicken, eh? I don't buy it.

You don't make an offer like that unless you are prepared to make good on it.

[ohioan]

14. Not if you know there's no way in hell Frist would agree to it

and even if he did, the result would be to give up a couple of judges that no one has any substantive problem with but who have been held up for use as leverage in exactly this situation.

Reid played this one perfectly.

[quaoar]

23. Frist might well have agreed to it

as a way to back himself out of the corner he has painted himself into.

Or he might have made a counteroffer and we'd be going back and forth with offers and counteroffers until the issue was no longer the principle of the filibuster but the terms of the "deal."

[Mojambo]

21. You don't play a lot of Poker do you? n/t

[quaoar]

24. I play plenty of poker

Enough to know you don't need to bluff when you're holding a straight flush.

[Mojambo]

25. If you think the D's are holding a straight flush

Then you have misread the situation.

The Democrats situation is strong, but they don't have "the nuts."

Either way, you can't argue with the results. Frist was forced to turn it down (as many speculated he would have to) and the Democrats now cannot be labeled obstructionists.

Shrewed politicking by a guy I'm still on the fence about, Harry Reid.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. Holy shit, Reid's a serious gambler

But he knows that Bush and Frist are arrogant fucks. Kos is dead on, Reid played his cards perfectly.

[democracyindanger]

29. Literally. At one point he was on the Nevada Gaming Commission

A character representing him had a tiny part in "Casino."

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Three words: Battered Wife Syndrome

Imagine yourself as a battered wife. Every so often, your husband gets angry and hits you. Why? You struggle to understand the connection between your behavior and his response. What are you doing that causes him to react this way? You hope that by identifying and avoiding the offending behavior, you can regain domestic peace and a sense of control. You're deluding yourself. As long as your husband decides which of your acts will earn you a beating, he's the master, and you're the slave.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. Please read the 12,254 other DU threads on this. Reid dun gud ... k?

Reid's strategy turns out to have saved our asses ... or at least it would seem so thus far. Frist blinked and we won (just today).

Please .... read all the other threads on this.

[autorank]

20. Congratulations, you used only 1 "f" word..."Frist"...and it's filthy.

Husb2Sparkly, I'm the guy that told Ms. Husb2Sparkly I'd pay her ten cents for every "f" word you used (she was then offering you a nickel). I owe you a dime. Frist is a very bad "f" word.

[Nite Owl]

5. You listening to Malloy?

he's talking about it now. Mad as all hell.

[LittleClarkie]

11. That figures

Bit of a kneejerk, is Mike.

[quiet.american]

7. Reid just engaged Frist in a game of chicken, and Frist blinked first

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/4/26/133311/075

Reid has been extrememly effective in whipping up opposition to the Nuclear Option, garnering strong grass- and netroots support, editorial board support, and popular support (as the latest polls show scant appetitite for ending the filibuster).

But in order to avoid looking like obstructionists, Demcorats had to make efforts to "find a compromise", lest the chattering class get the vapors from such Democratic intransigence....

[quaoar]

13. Y'all see a master strategist at work

I see a stupid gamble that paid off when it could just have easily blown up in our faces.

[ohioan]

16. How would this have blown up in our faces?

Suppose that Frist accepted Reid's "offer."

The result would have been:

1. Two judges with whom no one has any serious ideological problems would go on the court;

2. None of the other eight re-nominated judges would be confirmed;

3. The filibuster rule would stand, giving the Democrats the opportunity to filibuster any other existing or future judicial nominations, including that for the Supreme Court.

So how, exactly, would this scenario suck for us?

[quaoar]

22. It would suck because

1. Two RW judges currently deemed bad enough to be filibustered would be on the court for 30 or 40 years.

2. The other eight would simply be replaced by other extremists nominated by Bush.

3. The filibuster rule would stand until the Supreme Court nominee came up and then we'd be back to the nuclear option.

4. Democrats would once again be seen as sacrificing principle for expediency. That image does not go over well with the voting public. As repugnant as Bush is, people like him because they think he takes a stand and sticks to it. They see Democrats as taking a stand until they make a deal.

[ohioan]

27. My response

1. Two RW judges currently deemed bad enough to be filibustered would be on the court for 30 or 40 years.

These judges were filibustered not because they are right wing or even overly ideological at all. They were filibustered as a strategic maneuver in support of the homestate Senator's efforts to force consultation by the White House.

2. The other eight would simply be replaced by other extremists nominated by Bush.

And those judges would be filibustered - since the right to filibuster would have been preserved.

3. The filibuster rule would stand until the Supreme Court nominee came up and then we'd be back to the nuclear option.

In other words, the status quo would have been preserved.

4. Democrats would once again be seen as sacrificing principle for expediency. That image does not go over well with the voting public. As repugnant as Bush is, people like him because they think he takes a stand and sticks to it. They see Democrats as taking a stand until they make a deal.

That's not what the public opinion polls are telling us.

[CWebster]

32. While failing to bring up how many more of Clinton's choices

were blocked, makes the entire strategy of ducking the "obstructionist" label a farce.

Why do they not put a better fight? Because ultimately they serve the same masters.

[quiet.american]

33. Read Reid for the facts!

This statement appears on Harry Reid's own website in the transcript of his Senate floor statement on the "nuclear option" :

During the Clinton Administration, almost 70 judicial nominees were bottled up in the Judiciary Committee and never received floor votes. In addition, Republicans engaged in explicit filibusters on the floor against a number of Clinton judges, and defeated a number of President Clinton’s executive branch nominees by filibuster. Some of the loudest proponents of the nuclear option opposed cloture on those nominees.

http://reid.senate.gov/record2.cfm?id=236961

http://reid.senate.gov/

[Warpy]

8. At least we can trust Frist to be ideologically rigid

and unwilling to compromise. I'm so heartily sick of these old maids in pants in Congress I could scream. I don't know what has them so completely dispirited, having to kowtow to the DLC or simply not knowing how to be an effective opposition party.

I do know that if they end the filibuster, if my senator doesn't walk out immediately, I'm voting Green in 06.

That's a promise.

[autorank]

10. Frist plays checkers, Reid plays chess!

This is Frist, there was never a deal in the first place. Imagine putting Grant in charge of the Army of Northern Virginia, with the same strategy, and Lee in charge of the Army of the Potomac, with his flair. No contest. It's the same with Reid (Lee) and Frist (Grant). Frist lacks the resources to bull doze and Reid has the flair to use his resources (public and Senate support) with a degree of flair and intelligence.

This guy Reid looks like Bob Newheart and he operates like Cesare Borgia in "Prince of Foxes." It's about time we had a chess player as Senate Leader. Now, whatever happens we win. Frist fails at "nuking" us, he fails, we win. Frist succeeds at "nuking" us, we shut the place down, Frist fails, we win because we offered a compromise.

Which is why I like to say, it's time for...

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY

[quiet.american]

31. Well put. n/t

[BeFree]

17. Yeah well

This time they pissed right on the republicans, eh?

While it has been quite difficult to sit here and view the seemingly discombobulated manueverings of our dems, one simply must take into account the tremendous pressures being exerted upon our people. Not the least of which was the anthrax delivered to certain offices populated by our team members.

And don't for one second think that midnight telephone calls haven't been made reminding our heroes of their extended positions.

Given that the election process leaves us with much to be desired (was it really stolen?) and the loudmouth radical republicans shouting down any form of democracy, is it any wonder we seem to be at bottom? Only one way to go from here.......

[Selatius]

18. It was an extremely risky gamble.

Had Frist agreed, the majority of Bush judges would've gotten through, and who knows if the Republicans would've held up their end of the bargain in that scenario.

This time it worked. The next time it could easily blow up in Reid's face.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. What would you have done?

I'm not flaming you or picking on you. But there seems to be two schools of thought here. One says Reid did a good job (I'm on that side). The other view is he damn near screwed up.

Now, with the understanding that we have no power - none - zip - nada - what would you have done, or would you prefer he did?

[Selatius]

28. I wouldn't have played chicken if I knew I already won.

[Southsideirish]

19. "Money grubbing cowards" has a certain ring to it.

[Disturbed]

30. Making deals with Rethugs is...

like dealing with a Scorpion. One never knows when it will strike.