I owe Biden an apology

[pstans]

I was extemely pissed at Joe Biden when I heard him on Hardball about the Condisleeza Rice (or it might have been Gonzalez) confirmation hearings when he said that he would probably vote to confirm because he thinks the president has the right to nominate who he wants. Well, that position played out in the Democrats favor today.

At the confirmation hearing of John Bolton, Biden requested that the committee postpone voting on Bolton and get more information. Republican Senator Voinovich was taken back by this and thought, heck if Biden thinks there is something wrong, we should probably look into it.

Now, we don't know if Bolton will get confirmed, but thanks to Biden and Voinovich, America will get to learn more about Bolton and make and educated vote on his confirmation.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

1. You don't owe Biden an apology

FIRST, all due respect to your post and your opinion. Seriously.

BUT...respect is about CONSISTENCY. Biden may have done some admirable things in his career. Maybe the Bolton thing is one of them.

BUT...the Rice thing WAS NOT.

So...you put everything he does on the scale, and you balance out the good with the bad. He should be ASHAMED for the Rice "dog and pony show"...the whole "I want you to know I am going to vote for you, but I have to first go through this token display of admonishing you" CRAP is a a source of SHAME.

I've seen both ends of the Biden spectrum on DU...I've seen him damned, and I've seen him high-fived.

I take him on an instance-by-instance basis. TODAY, I will thank him for the action he took on Bolton.

Tomorrow is another day.

:toast:

[pstans]

4. My points is

My point is that if Biden voted against every Republican that has something wrong with them then his request today would have gone unnoticed, called partisan politics, and Bolton would have been voted onto the Senate.

[FiveGoodMen]

11. But if the Dems always voted (and spoke up) against

bad nominees, we wouldn't have so many bad ones today.

[siliconefreak]

15. Here, here!

I agree with you completely. None of the Senators is perfect - although Russ Feingold comes close, in my mind. It's important to keep the big picture in mind, not change our opinions based on what happened in just one day.

[cry baby]

2. Biden was really persuasive today.

I am glad his motion to close the hearing was defeated, though. I am so glad I got to see him yelling with passion against this nominee.

[wryter2000]

3. Yes and no

Biden grows a spine from time to time and then goes back to enabling the repugs. I wish we could have the good Biden all the time. When he's good, he's very, very good.

[calimary]

5. He needs to hear from US Good Guys.

He needs to hear that he did good.

So does Voinovich.

Here's his contact info from DUer K8-EEE:

Honorable George V. Voinovich 524 Hart Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 [phone] Fax: [phone] TDD: [phone]

Got this from FR, he's getting Freeped, support Voinovich for doing the decent thing!!

[BlueIris]

6. I don't think you necessarily owe Biden an apology, either,

but he did manage to help effect a nice attempt at a save today. Maybe there's a chance.

[libertypirate]

7. And what are the details with how he met...

our friend Mr. Gannon?

[Toby109]

8. This is an old joke but I think

it applies: "The most dangerous place to be in DC is between Joe Biden and a camera." The guy is an attention hog. In no way does he represent a progressive Democrat.

He owes YOU an apology for posing as such.

[cestpaspossible]

13. Oh they tell that one about every politician

I know for sure I've heard it told about Kerry... but Biden is not progressive, I don't think he claims to be one.

[Toby109]

14. Biden is a tease.

Which is the worst kind, IMO. He goes on Russert on Sunday and pretends to be some voice of sanity in this fucked up world and by Tuesday he's reversed himself. Stay away from him.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. On a somewhat related note:

Bolton has the next two weeks to fume. Fume he will. While fuming, he will be working the phones. A lot. He is evidently a guy without much in the way of impulse control and insight into the consequences of his actions(A sociopathic trait). So he will talk. And talk. And talk some more. He will be heard, too. Washington, being Washington, will be rife with the contents of his near-ranting(or full-on ranting. Take yer' pick). Washington is gossip.

This could turn out to be a tactical move worthy of Sun Tzu.

[KoKo]

10. Don't be taken in by either Biden or Dodd. Biden is totally reponsible

for Clarence Thomas and his hypocracy on Bolton issue is that he didn't allow the witness who supported Anita Hill to appear because it was 2:00 a.m. in the morning and he said the "deliberations need to have a close" and Anita's vindicator was never heard from again. I fear Biden is pull ing another "fast one" with Bolton's nomination...in that he will say Bush wouldn't release Bolton's e-mails where he asks for a name in the "fru/fra" over Bolton trying to get CIA info.

Onto Dodd. He and Lieberman are responsible for the loosening of Securities and Exchange Commission's regulations on our Financial Markets and their "deregulations of rules" put in place after the 1929 Stock Crash have led directly to the financial crises we are about to suffer.

I have NO respect for Biden or Dodd. Am I glad they took a stand today?

Not sure about this. I think they "delayed" because after the "Bankruptcy Bill" fiasco they were getting pressure at home and needed to stand up for something.

But...the way the Senate works they have lots of room to work with Lugar/Repugs to finally nominate Bolton...so I'm not going to be dancing a "jig" over this.

Just being "cautionary" to those of you DU'ers who are young and don't understand the "behind the scenes" of this move by Biden and Dodd.

I'm glad to see them stand up...but until the final vote I wouldn't be sending them "thosands of roses" and other thanks for what they did.

Just my 2Cents....:shrug:

[DancingBear]

12. You owe Joe Biden no apology

What you do owe him, if you see fit, is a letter of commendation for behaving like a man with a conscience. He is deserving of praise in this instance, and it should be given.

Other posters here have him pegged accurately. He is a "blow with the wind" guy who every once in a while does the right thing. To say he can not be counted on to do the right thing always is an understatement.

It tires me to no end when people look at this effort and say "see - what if there was a Republican in his place!" - forgetting about Rice and never imagining a Wellstone in his place.

[zulchzulu]

16. Whoa...it's Halftime on the Bolton Game

All this talk about a "victory" could easily be swept away with a vote for Bolton after the recess.

THe game ain't over yet.

[FrenchieCat]

17. Maybe Biden has been getting nasty letters and phone calls

about the Rice and Gonzales thingie (you hear about it all of the time on Randi Rhodes)...and so now, he's being a little courageous, to satisfy us for the time being.

He's definitely a "stick your finger to the wind" type of politician. I wouldn't be surprised if he got "wind" of the displeasure many progressive have about his recent "All talk and no action" persona. When you plan on running for President, you know that you got to keep your base in line and prepped for the primaries. I just think he got the message about such things a tad late.

Watch him some more, and then let me know if he actually consistently stands for something.

From where I sit, as of the moment, he stands for his career, first and foremost.

[cyberpj]

18. As a Biden constituent I think your assessment is correct -

Not only have we bombarded him on Rice and Gonzoles but the bankruptcy bill as well. Of course, banking is now Delaware's number one employer and Joe is 3rd on the list for receiving campaign contribs from banking so I can't say I was surprised -- just disappointed - once again. (By the way, Delaware's other senator actually co-sponsored the damn bankruptcy bill!)

So let me tell you - watching him over the last however many years or so has been a constant roller coaster ride - first you want to pound him and next you want to praise him. Perhaps that's the price of doing business in D.C. but I'm here to tell you I'm tired of it and I want "business" OUT of D.C.!

ps - the joke about the camera applies big time.

[KoKo]

19. Thank you for this information. Since he's your Senator it's better to

hear it from you sometimes than the rest of us who are just angry from watching him in other states for years.

He has ton's of charm and Dodd is suave with gravitas...but neither of them are people I would want back in the Senate. They've done too much damage while all the time appearing like the "White Knight" coming in for the "rescue."

I think the Bankruptcy Bill vote opened a can of worms for many of our Reps in various states. Folks we thought we could trust and now we need another look.

My biggest question is Senator Byrd...I love that man and am reading his book...and no where can I find a reason that he voted for that bill since WVA doesn't have a "credit card" business (that I could find, and I checked) and it's such a poor state. Byrd grew up in poverty. I can only think that he's so old he has the view the Depression folks in my family had that "Bankruptcy" was such a stigma that one just never taled about it in polite company and tried to quietly repay even if it was with "chikens and handyman jobs" just to keep your neighbors from knowing. Maybe Byrd still thinks like that...but I don't think Biden and Dodd come from the "Old South" and remember the Depression the way Byrd would. :shrug: Who knows, anymore what these people think...but they should be judged by the Bulk of what they do or not do. And if they vote with Repugs the majority of the time in these dark days they need to be held accountable.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

20. Don't apologize to Biden...

Send a nice email to Boxer. I think this lady has out-balled our male senators and they are starting to see that people like a strong gutsy democrat for a change. So suddenly they are starting develop a little spine.

[cyberpj]

22. Agreed! And did you notice the look on the face of

(darn - I can't bring his name to my memory rightn now) - younger than usual man with dark hair who simply sat back and threw his arm around the back of his chair and smirked as she talked!?

I wanted to throttle him!

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

21. WOW

Biden was on fire today....I wanted to shout "Do I hear an amen?!"
Whew, was that something!

You have to give props where props are due, and his testimony was DEAD ON