The Centrist Revolution?

[MsTryska]

to quote Jon Stewart - "Be Reasonable!"


what do y'all think of this guy? I saw him on Daily Show being interviewed, and i kinda dug what he was saying, but i'm not sure whether he's trustworthy of if he's just a saleseman....

http://www.independentnation.org/

[dcfirefighter]

1. One problem with Centrism

is that you often wind up marrying the Social Controls of the Right with the Economic Controls of the Left, to no one's benefit.

[Geekscum]

19. Centerism can win though

This will be long so please bear with me. I live in TX and I am a bubba. I work in computers but grew up blue collar and have a lot of blue collar friends. Heck one or two are Jeff Foxworthy jokes on the hove. I lost track of the number of times I hear these guys and other say when we talked politics that they would vote for a moderate democrat, if they could. The know that the republicans do not have their best economic interest at heart. But the social concerns of these people far out weighs that in their mind. To sum it up a labor poplurist who did something about the run away deficits who was pro-gun, and not in favor of gay marriage could have won last year. Keep im mind that since 1964 only 3 democrats have won the Whitehouse. All three were from the south, all three went to church, and all three were viewed at least partly as centerist.

NO matter how you want to look at it the democratic party has to compete int he south. If you write it off the republicans have two many electoial votes sewed up. No democrat has won the presidency in over 50 years without being competitive in the south. To be competitive in the south you need to at least seem a moderate.

And also keep this in mind, that if the republicans win in 2008 by 2012. They most likely will have picked atleast 7 if not all 9 supreme court justices. And how many time has the democratic party relied on the courts for change.

And lastly, I know that a lot of us are tired of moving to the right on things, but which is more tiresome seeing a moderate democrat get elected of a right wing republican in 2008.

[mrgorth]

28. I'll agree with you

but neither Kerry nor Edwards was for gay marriage. I won't support someone that's not at least for civil unions.

[thinkingwoman]

21. just the opposite actually

the most successful red state centrism I've seen married the economic right and social left.

[MsTryska]

23. Yeah? Which state do you have in mind? nt

nt

[thinkingwoman]

24. Indiana and, U.S. in 1990s

When Bayh was gov of Indiana he used the socially liberal--fiscally conservative approach and the state had a nice surplus, as did the U.S. when Clinton was prez.

That's what true centrism is, and why it appeals to so many people despite the whining and false-predictions of extremists from both ends of the political spectrum.

[MsTryska]

25. Good point.....

question tho - isn't this talibanesque backlash we're seeing in direct response to CLinton Style social liberalism?



granted imo America was in it's heyday - but apparently many don't see it that way.

[thinkingwoman]

31. the talibornagain movement

began in 1980, with the election of Reagan. It is a reaction against the 60s and early 70s social progress. It waged a terribly effective grassroots on up campaign to remake America in their fundie image and it has reached it's peak now.

Clinton is just a blip on their radar screen...a modern talking point.

[Writer]

2. I saw him the other night...

and held two thumbs up.

[thebigidea]

22. 2 thumbs up for Rudy Guiliani's chief speechwriter?

you like his columns in that bastion of journalism, the NY Sun? It makes the Post look vaguely communist.

[electropop]

3. The current situation is Dems=Center, GOP=Extreme Right

We need to move left, not even further into fascism. We will win no new voters by acting like pale versions of Rethugs. We will win them with strong and decent moral principles: fairness and common sense. In other words, liberalism.

[elperromagico]

6. Right. We're dealing with a smaller spectrum.

The Democratic Party is cosidered far left only because both parties have slipped so far rightward in the last few decades.

[MsTryska]

7. And this the thing that's got me very confused -

What is the working definition of "Far Left" not the one used by us, but the one the population at large is using?

[elperromagico]

11. Far left apparently means anything to the left of Republicans,

which covers a helluva lot of territory.

Even Bill Clinton counts as a far left liberal under that definition.

[RubyDuby in GA]

15. Ding ding ding....I think we have a winner

If you run a Republican against a Republican, a Republican is going to win every time. Must...move....party....to....the....left....

With that having been said, I saw this guy the other night and was not impressed. He tried awfully hard to make it seem like the people in the center were just perfect. I mean McCain??? Seriously dude. Put the bong down....

[Zhade]

27. "Put the bong down...."

Hey now, I could have it in my hand and still see the guy was clueless! :smoke:

[Nederland]

33. Question

If leftists like Kucinich can't even win a single Democratic primary, what makes you think they would do better in the general?

[RubyDuby in GA]

35. I didn't say leftists, or what most people are considering the Far Left

right now the Center is actually a moderate Republican/Very Conservative Democrat. I'm just saying we, as a party, need to move back to the left so that they don't consider people like Lieberman to be our spokespeople.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. I understand the sentiment, but I somehow don't think the far left

is controlling the debate in the Democratic party. Is the greatest powerblock pushing for national health care, and shutting down the moderates who are squishy about it? I don't think so. Is the Democratic power base demanding an immediate total withdrawal from Iraq, regardless of the potential consequences, over the objections of the centrists who are saying 'We broke it, we fix it'? Uh-uh.

The radicals may be controlling the debate on the right, but on the left it is the moderates who are in charge. Which is what the republicans want. Find a central point between the radical right and the moderate left, and it is bound to be in the solid, moderate right. Without a powerful leftist voice, the whole debate skews to the right.

To find the moderates, we need to talk left. Loud and long.

[MsTryska]

18. I actually agree with you.....

Because it is Far Right against Moderate left.


We need our wacky leftists to come out of the woodwork and show them what Far Left is really all about.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. Exactly! nt

[Zhade]

29. None of your examples are even far left!

I don't see the Dems arresting landowners and splitting up their land for the poor - now THAT'S far left!

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. There ya go. Give the land back to the small farmers. Nationalize

the oil companies (rather then the oil companies privitizing the government). Restore the Black Hills to the native americans, as per the treaty of 1866(?), voiding all ownership claims since the abrogation of that treaty. Etc.

Makes national health care sound very reasonable.

I've always said there is no left in this country. Only a left-ish.

[sandnsea]

34. The far left needs to organize

I've been saying that for months for the exact reason you just outlined. Instead of just bitching about the Democratic Party, which only makes the entire party look scattered and unable to govern, they need to go ahead and go Green and get strong enough to be heard. That way the center will really be the center. And the Democrats can't be labeled with the 'loony left' brush anymore. And we might even start winning again.

[elperromagico]

5. When he cited McCain as a moderate, I stopped listening.

Yes, he's moderate on some issues, but isn't everybody? Just because he occasionally votes against the Republicans doesn't make him a moderate.

[MsTryska]

8. Well McCain was a moderate.....

until he got hopelessly mired in dubya's ass.

[elperromagico]

10. A moderate in the GOP primaries back in 2000, maybe.

Even G. Dub sounded moderate back in January 2000.

[MsTryska]

12. heh. You make a good point. nt

nt

[Dr Ron]

9. He seemed to be pushing Republicans

His examples of centristss were Republcans. Doesn't go along with the reality that the Democarats are now more centrist while Republicans are far right.

People like McCain might be better than the neocons and religious right, but McCain is still a conservative, not a centrist.

[MsTryska]

13. Yeah - that concerned me too.....

actually what bothered me most were those cowboy boots he was wearing.


But he did count JFK and Clinton in the moderate crowd.

[Dr Ron]

14. Only past Democrats

I felt like he was mentioning past Democrats to give the illusion of bipartisanship, while really pusing Republicans currently.

If he was more honest that he was pushing for the more moderate wing of the Republican party to regain control from the extremists now in control, I'd have more respect for him.

[MsTryska]

16. mmmm.....great observation.

i think perhaps you've put the finger on what was making my BS detector a bit twitchy.

I'll give his book a read if it winds up at my library tho.

[elperromagico]

17. Democrats are always the ones who seek compromise in office.

Look at Clinton: Welfare reform and NAFTA alone were Republican wet dreams. That's triangulation for you.

The Republicans are the ones who talk about compromise and unity and then get into office and push as hard and far to the right as they can. There hasn't been a Democrat in decades who ran as a moderate and then governed as a liberal. Maybe LBJ was the last and even he ran right on foreign policy.

Democrats see the word "unity" and think "working together toward common goals." Republicans see the word "unity" and think "agreeing with us." You can't run the no-man's land.

[Zhade]

26. The guy was an idiot.

I was actually pondering that episode in the shower this morning. The guy kept banging on about how the "extreme wings" of both parties have captured them.

In the case of the Republicans, I can agree. The Dems? That's laughable! Let's break it down:

The 'extremes' would, by definition, be on the edges of the party.

It wouldn't be the 'inner' edges close to the 'center', because then this guy would have no argument (he doesn't anyway, but bear with me).

So logically, the 'extremes' he's talking about are the far right and the far left.

Well, since when was universal taxpayer-funded full health care a major thrust of the Dems? What about the redistribution of wealth? Marijuana legalization? These are all 'far left' ideas (not really, but maybe this guy would see it that way - he did after all think McCain was an honorable man to work with). I don't see the Dems pushing to the left, I see them following the right. The party certainly isn't in danger of going socialist anytime soon.

The guy's premise was flawed and intellectually dishonest, and he thinks the centrists - the guys currently enabling the b*s* administration's growing fascism - will save the day?

Pardon my laughter!

[ArkDem]

30. Yeah, those DLC guys are great.