Darwinism inspired Hitler

[BOSSHOG]

thus giving birth to the Nazi movement. That gem according to Chuck Colson this morning on American Family Radio. Per chuckles, evolution devalues life and such a thought made hitler's loins tingle. In classic American Family format, colson said toward the end of his babbling that, in so many words, I can't prove one fucking thing about what I just said, but I do know my audience and they will carry forth to the far corners of christendom that Darwin is the root cause of the Nazi party, thus giving christians one more reason to hate in the name of Jesus Christ.

Its amazing what you can pick up with just five minutes of jim dobson's hate machine.

[demnan]

1. But it was the Church in Nazi Germany

that condoned and tolerated the Nazis.

[hatrack]

11. From "Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII

"The signing of the Reich Concordat marked the formal beginning of German Catholicism's aceptance of its obligations under the terms of the treaty which imposed a moral duty on Catholics to obey the Nazi rulers. Thus Catholic critics fell silent. A great Church, which might have formed the basis of an opposition, confined itself to the sacristy. There were to be notable exceptoins, as for example Cardinal Faulhaber's Advent sermons in defense of the Old Testament in the fall of the year, but these were individual (and, as it turned out, qualified) acts of defiance. There was to be nothing remotely resembling a concerted act of protest from within Germany, even over issues connected with the infringements of the terms of the treaty itself.

The signing of the concordat did not result in an end to the attacks on Catholic associations and societies that were, by the Church's own criteria, nonpolitical. Nazi officials across Germany did not feel bound by the spirit of the treat, since, through Pacelli's impetuosity, it was still incomplete in relation to the definition of "political" associations. Sporadic persecution of Catholic associations continued and increased. Bans and intimidation tactics against Catholic grtoups, in particular the Catholic press, were frequent in Bavaria, the traditional homeland of German Catholicism, where Himmeler and Heydrich were most active. On September 19 (ed. - 1933) a circular distributed by Bavaria's political police banned all Catholic meetings with the exception of choir practics and gatherings of the St. Vincent de Paul charity." pp. 157-158.

In a nutshell, Eugenio Pacelli, Papal Nuncio to Germany and later Pope Pius XII, negotiated an agreement with the Nazi government. The government gave up any attempts to directly control Catholic education & the parochial school system, and in return, the Vatican agreed to withdraw from all political activities, which were to be subsumed and absorbed by the Nazi state.

[genius]

15. Yeh. But the coldness of Darwinism permeated Hitler's reign.

It's one thing to condone horrible stuff and another thing to devise it and carry it out. Life becomes irrelevant under Darwinism as it did under Hitler. This doesn't excuse those who condoned it.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Why exactly is life irrelevant under Darwinism?

I'm not talking about "social Darwinism" here, just actual Darwinism. It's nothing but a scientific description, based on the best available evidence, of the processes by which populations of living things change over time, giving rise biological diversity.

In other words, a scientific description of a natural phenomenon. Does all science make what it describes irrelevent, or is that unique to Darwinism.

Not trying to be contentious, just trying to understand the thinking behind the statement.:)

Added, I'm not certain what is meant here by "coldness". Certainly Darwin's writings are anything but cold. Other areas of science like physics and chemistry are much "colder". Scientific thinking as a whole has strongly permeated western societies since the time of Newton. I'm not sure why Darwinism in particular should be singled out.

[kliljedahl]

21. There is no thinking behind the statement

They need no proof because they have "faith." ie. belief without facts


http://www.kliljedahl.net

[atommom]

2. I've heard conservatives throw that comparison around a lot lately

in regards to Darwinism. They deliberately confuse Social Darwinism with the teaching of Darwin's theory of evolution.

Here's a little more from a local blog:
Fritz Stern, a refugee from Hitler's Germany and a scholar of European history, who has devoted a lifetime to analyzing how the Nazi barbarity became possible says this:

"We who were born at the end of the Weimar Republic and who witnessed the rise of National Socialism (are) left with that all-consuming, complex question: how could this horror have seized a nation and corrupted so much of Europe?"


Stern does not see science as the culprit.


"Hitler himself, a brilliant populist manipulator who insisted and probably believed that Providence had chosen him as Germany’s savior, that he was the instrument of Providence, a leader who was charged with executing a divine mission. God had been drafted into national politics before, but Hitler’s success in fusing racial dogma with a Germanic Christianity was an immensely powerful element in his electoral campaigns. Some people recognized the moral perils of mixing religion and politics, but many more were seduced by it. It was the pseudo-religious transfiguration of politics that largely ensured his success, notably in Protestant areas."

http://redstaterabble.blogspot.com/2005/02/little-kansas-nazis.html

[punpirate]

3. It's rather amazing how many of these idiots...

... intentionally or accidentally confuse the discredited principle of Social Darwinism with evolutionary theory.

It says a great deal about the confluence of mis-education, fundamentalism and deceit.

[AntiCoup2K4]

4. OK, let's run with what Chucky the convicted felon says, for a minute.

If it's true that Darwin is a villain for "inspiring" Hitler, then what does that make the Bush family for directly FUNDING the bastard?

Got an answer for that one, ya Nixon loving criminal piece of shit? :evilgrin:

[ET Awful]

5. Too bad that Hitler cited

his Catholic upbringing as the basis for his anti-semitism eh? Maybe Colson needs to actually crack open a detailed history book.

Amazing how uneducated these people are.

[nickgutierrez]

9. The truth doesn't matter.

All that matters to these people is that it "sounds" true. There was another post talking about the distinction between Darwin's Evolution and Social Darwinism, and that's also a valid point if you're in the reality-based community. These people aren't.

What they do isn't dissemenate fact, but you knew that. What they do is distort, repeat, distort a bit more, and repeat the distortion. That's where you get from "Hitler read Darwin" to "Hitler did those bad because he read Darwin."

Facts - real, hard facts - are like holy water to a vampire for these people, and that's why they stay as far away from them as possible. And the further they stay away from them, the further they drag their flock of sheep away from them, and that explains why they're so ready to condemn anybody that dares to disagree. They argue with sweeping generalizations like "everybody knows..." and the more Fox-esque tactic of "some people think...", because if you hold their feet to the fire, their "facts" don't stand up to a real investigation - but the fire of truth burns not within the sheep.

[ktowntennesseedem]

6. How can you stand listening to AFR?

You're either much braver or much crazier than I! Thanks for the great observation!

[BOSSHOG]

7. No more than 10 minutes a week

I was doing something good this morning, going down to the feed and seed to get fertilizer for my plants and seed for my birdfeeders. I tune into the "christian" station to get a few lines of insanity I can pass on. They never fail me. I can't handle but just a few minutes at a time. Music, hate and zealotry, 24/7.

[ktowntennesseedem]

13. I hear you.

I've tried to listen in a few times, like you do, just a little, maybe to get a few good laughs. But as a Christian myself (recovering Baptist) who is disgusted at their hypocrisy, it hits a little too close to home to laugh at them very much.

[Igel]

8. Most people confuse Darwinism with superiority in ways Darwin

wouldn't have recognized.

Social Darwinism is a misnomer. People keep saying "When are we going to evolve to stop war and greed?", when it's far from a given that this would satisfy darwinian constraints.

It's about survival of your genes; this can mean making sure your genes out-reproduce others', or that when something comes along to kill off others that your offspring survive. It has nothing to do with education or prosperity, per se.

If you don't reproduce, you're out of the evolution game.

[Justin54B20L]

10. Absolutely.

Hitler did use Darwinism as an excuse to conquer the world, but like most people today he read Darwinism wrong.

He used Darwin's "Survival of the fittest" proposition and like many, didn't truly understand what "fittest" meant.

Darwin's "fittest" meant not in physical or physiological sense(to an extent) but rather that of a species fertility(ability to produce offspring) and fecundity(number of offspring produced).

[kenny blankenship]

12. Hey that's right come to think of it!

There had never been any pogroms in Europe before Darwin. The whole thing was due to the godless theory of Evolution. Why didn't I see that? My education was warped by godless liberals, but now I see.

[Hello_Kitty]

14. But Economic Darwinism is hunky-dory with these folks. n/t

[Mutley]

16. how exactly

does this wacko equate darwinism and nazism???

[jpgray]

17. Jesus inspired the Inquisition

Let's stop with the dumb logic, please, RWingers.

[Azathoth]

18. That's the new fundie meme: Darwinism inspired slavery and Nazism

They've been trying to get the idea to go mainstream for a while now. :eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

20. I don't even think it's particularly new.

Haven't they been pretty much saying this for several decades? These people aren't really capable of original thought.

[Azathoth]

22. You might be right

I've only started hearing it recently, but its certainly possible that they've been saying it for decades. I think the real problem is that the fundies have now achieved a degree of credibility and media access, and now their insanity is begining to reach a more general audience.

[amjucsc]

23. Next they'll be claiming quantum mechanics is responsible for communism...

If we teach our children that they can never measure both the position and speed of a particle they'll turn into Godless moral relativists who'll burn their bras (or wear them if they're men) engage in massive orgies on church property while listening to that beastly rock and/or roll music, and start demanding the formation of a one world government...

The horror. The horror.

Anyway, Darwin was a useful tool for bigots of all stripes who wanted something to back up their contention that 'their' race was superior. Anti-semitism (and the old fashioned lust for power that caused Hitler to murder most of his victims) are far older than Darwin.

[Jesus Saves]

24. Even if it's true - so what?

An evil man like Hitler will take all kinds of disparate theories and draw them together to cobble together some kind of 'justification'.

Anyway, evolution is fact.

[Lisa]

25. people had already made up their minds to hate particular groups

When evolutionary theory was popularized by Darwin and other researchers, in the Victorian era, those who seized upon it as a way to justify their prejudices picked and chose what appeared to back up their pre-existing beliefs. Not really "scientific" at all -- just a circular argument.

There was definitely a time, in the first half of the 20th century (and even up to the 1960s) when environmental determinism was used to justify all kinds of racist policies. (Looking through school textbooks by van Loon, for example, it's used to promote certain geopolitical views ... and also things like eugenics. I bet that most right-wingers think eugenics is just fine!) Social science researchers are reluctant to talk about what happened back then, so no wonder commentators can make statements like that without being challenged. (I'm a geographer, and our discipline, with the exception of authors like Neil Smith, has tiptoed around our own role in promoting determinism earlier. The anthropologists have been more honest about confronting it.)

It also bugs me when neo-cons invoke "survival of the fittest" when justifying the destruction of social safety nets and human rights. I don't think Darwin saw it that way either (spoke out against slavery, etc.). "Fittest" didn't mean being physically strong, or the most ruthless competitor. Collaboration (e.g. mutualistic relationships) can enhance survival/fertility just as much.

[Roland99]

26. Was also inspired by the fraudulent The Protocols of the Elders of Sion

The writings weren't purely a hoax but they were distorted and exaggerated in various versions over time and blame for their content was pointed to the Priory of Sion and freemasons.

[Red State Rabble]

27. Darwin and Hitler

The canard that Darwin, evolution, and science somehow contributed to Nazi ideology is part of the Christian Fundamentalist/Intelligent Design "Wedge Strategy" to demonize science and scientists in this country.

The Seattle-based Discovery Institute, the prime mover in the battle to introduce creationism and intelligent design into science classrooms in Kansas and a number of other states is sponsoring a talk by Richard Weikart titled "From Darwin to Hitler" in Seattle tonight. Weikart, a History professor at California State University, Stanislaus and the author of "From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany" is a fellow at the Discovery Institute.

Red State Rabble (http://redstaterabble.blogspot.com ) has posted a series of exchanges with Weikart on this issue. You can read them here: http://redstaterabble.blogspot.com/2005/03/richard-weikart-workin-in-quote-mine.html

[MollyStark]

28. Darwinism carried to extreme is not a benefit to anyone

Nothing is "good" when carried to the extreme, darwinism is no different. So it is possible that Hitler was influenced by Darwinism. What difference does it make? Most Christians believe in evolution, there is really no reason to create this false us/them dichotomy.