AUDIO: Exchange between our 4-star Democrat and a Chickenhawk Neo-Con

[Sparkly]

http://hasc3.house.gov/04-06-05FullComm.asf

Listen from about 1:34:50 until just past 1:42...

Listen to Richard Perle doing his John Houseman ("Paper Chase") imitation, feigning intellectual incredulity at the notion of *talking* to those who are opposed to us. ("What on earth does it mean?!...")

Listen to General Clark smack him down and point out the differences between that "group" (neo-cons) and the Democratic position.

Listen to Richard Perle trying again to act like it's outrageous, as if *talking* = coddling.

Listen to General Clark, even invoking the words of the Preznit himself, to explain why the neo-con policy is wrong.

Listen to chickenhawk Richard Perle lecturing a 4-star general on "understanding the battlefield." Too funny even to get angry over!!

And finally, listen to Perle saying, at the end, he wouldn't attack our opponents but wouldn't talk to them, either. (So what's left?!)

[kaitykaity]

1. Dammit I don't have any blue shoes.

Why is this man still behind a microphone? He's so
full of crap.

[FrenchieCat]

2. here's the WAPO article - Looks like a TKO for Clark

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32440-2005Apr6.html

I will paste my favorite parts. The entire article is just great. Perle, you and your PNAC cronies were and are wrong, wrong, wrong....

Same Committee, Same Combatants, Different Tune
By Dana Milbank
Thursday, April 7, 2005; Page A10

>snip
The two belligerents then went after each other, taking the hearing out of the control of the lawmakers. Perle wondered "why in the world" Clark would talk to Syria. Clark said Perle should learn to "eat the elephant one bite at a time." "What are you talking about?" Perle demanded.

Finally, Rep. Victor F. Snyder (D-Ark.) tried to regain the floor. "It is illegal to fight dogs in Arkansas," he said. "I'm not going to get in the middle."
snip
In retrospect, Clark's forecasts proved more accurate than Perle's, and even Republicans on the committee made little effort yesterday to defend Perle or to undermine Clark. The exception was Chairman Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), who pressed Clark to acknowledge that the Iraq invasion should get some credit for signs of democracy in the region.

"We've got to do a lot less crowing about the sunrise," Clark rejoined.

When Hunter's GOP colleagues didn't join his line of questioning, he took another turn grilling Clark. The chairman likened President Bush's Middle East policies to those of President Ronald Reagan in Eastern Europe.

"Reagan never invaded Eastern Europe," Clark retorted.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Oh, and forgot this part!

It was not always thus. At the September 2002 hearing, GOP lawmakers joined in Perle's dismissal of Clark's argument that "time is on our side" in Iraq and that force should be used only as a "last resort."

Perle said Clark was "wildly optimistic" and called it "one of the dumber cliches, frankly, to say that force must always be a last resort." While Clark fiddled, "Saddam Hussein is busy perfecting those weapons of mass destruction that he already has."
>snip

In another try, Hunter said Clark was "overstating" the risk in challenging other countries in the Middle East. Clark smiled and showed his trump card -- reminding Hunter of their exchange at the 2002 hearing. "I kept saying time was on our side," Clark said. "I could never quite satisfy you."

As for who proved correct, the general said, "I'll let the record speak for itself."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32440-2005Apr6.html

[Jesus Saves]

6. Sounds like Clark

kicked some rear.

[Sparkly]

11. Can you believe Perle brought a copy of "Kitchen Confidential?"

The WaPo article was great!! I *SO* wish it had all been televised on CSpan. Any chance it was recorded and will air later?

[obreaslan]

29. Have you noticed that Perle bears a resemblance....

...to a certain Lord of the Sith? The Man is pure evil!

[Jesus Saves]

3. marking this

for a listen tomorrow...

[NVMojo]

5. Fecking Right On!!!

Kick!!

[Iterate]

7. Some good background here

The subtext of this audio isn't always clear, so here's an interview that explains what some of this about, especially when they are referring to negotiations with Syria and avoiding war. Well worth anyone's time, especially after the first few minutes. The book looks to be interesting.

'Inheriting Syria' in the Modern Age
"Fresh Air from WHYY, March 31, 2005 · Flynt Leverett is a senior fellow at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution. As Syria is prodded to withdraw its troops -- and influence -- from neighboring Lebanon, the region faces potentially drastic changes.

A veteran expert on Middle East policy -- from the National Security Council and the State Department to the CIA -- Leverett has also written a new book, Inheriting Syria: Bashar’s Trial By Fire, about Bashar al-Assad's rule of Syria after following his father as the country's leader."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4569205

[JNelson6563]

8. Sounds heavy on irony

No time to listen now but enjoyed the recap. :toast:

Julie

[BrklynLiberal]

9. Since Dean keeps insisting he won't run in '08, I will back Clark. He

appears to have more of the qualities of leadership, intelligence, experience, and insight than any other the others on the horizon.

[Arkana]

12. If forced to choose a corner for '08, I'll pick Clark too

He strikes me as a guy who's not afraid to kick Dubya's misadministration right in the testicles.

EDIT: Fixed an embarrassing time error...

[ZootSuitGringo]

14. Here's a blogger who is a Dean supporter

talking about the testimony:
http://gorillaintheroom.blogspot.com/

[CarolNYC]

10. Great blog on the hearing here

http://gorillaintheroom.blogspot.com/

The more people get to know Wes, the more they will understand what we see in him....

[ZootSuitGringo]

15. oops! my bad on dup -- sorry bout that!

(great minds think alike?)

[CarolNYC]

19. great minds

:)

[Totally Committed]

13. This was, undoubtedly, the best 3 hours of radio....

I ever listened to in my life... I laughed, I cried; I cheered, I hissed. It was cathartic! LOL!

I wish they had televised this! It would have made GREAT reality TV.

TC

[Leilani]

16. I'm furious that this wasn't televised

I know C-Span can't be everywhere, but this is such an important topic, & from the sounds of it, would have made excellent TV for a change.

But we wouldn't want to interrupt round-the-clock coverage of Schiavo & the Pope.

[ZootSuitGringo]

17. As far as cable is concerned;

death is becoming a 24/7 business.

But since they interject a bit of "macko Jacko" news, guess the American Zomby audience they think watch should be pretty satisfied and glued to their TV.

Television news is really just pitiful.

[CarolNYC]

18. Don't give up on CSpan coverage yet

It may show up on C-Span yet...keep watching www.securingamerica.com or the CSpan schedule for update....

[Texas_Kat]

20. Sent CSPAN a copy of the WaPo article last night.

While they were covering the dronings of the House about the Pope, all hell was breaking loose over at the HASC.

[Sparkly]

21. Good idea

It'd make good television, especially by C-Span standards!!

[Leilani]

22. I've checked their site several times

& see no mention of it.

Also when Wes was on Wash Journal yesterday, they mentioned the hearing, but did not say they would cover it.

PS I'm a HUGE C-Span fan...I think they goofed on this one.

[Coexist]

23. Wes Clark has sooooo become my hero

truthfully

[WLKjr]

24. We all know how these ArmChair Generalz are

They know everything and preach to the ones who have known it and get this, have actually experienced it.

I give Richard Perle the Asshat of the week award:

[Hatalles]

25. Perle: Talking is for Wussies!

I'm in the Dean/Kucinich camp but I wouldn't have a problem voting for Clark. Keep it up, General. *salute*

[Sparkly]

26. Yup -- he doesn't seem to realize he and BushCo have been talking, too,

in their own way. They've been making threats, making demands, calling countries "axis of evil," saying "with us or against us," using terms like "crusade," taking credit, assigning blame, etc...

That's how they talk. But when it comes to carrots and sticks, persuasion and pressure, and an *exchange* in discussion, forget it. Yup, they apparently think being smart = being wussies.

[Hatalles]

27. Does anyone have video of this? nt

Yeah, I know a few guys sitting around but I'm sure I could get a few people to sit through most of it if there was video to accompany the audio.

[kevsand]

30. Haven't seen any trace of it yet.

At least, not at the usual sources. If C-SPAN is eventually persuaded to broadcast it, then the video will probably turn up then. Until such time, we're visually challenged, I'm afraid.

[indie_voter]

28. Thanks for posting this!

I hope they show this on tv at some point.

I can't believe Perle LECTURED Clark on "understanding the battlefield". Performance art at it's finest. ;)