What the Pope's position on women REALLY was!

[saracat]

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_29061995_women_en.html
Excerpt

4. And what shall we say of the obstacles which in so many parts of the world still keep women from being fully integrated into social, political and economic life? We need only think of how the gift of motherhood is often penalized rather than rewarded, even though humanity owes its very survival to this gift. Certainly, much remains to be done to prevent discrimination against those who have chosen to be wives and mothers. As far as personal rights are concerned, there is an urgent need to achieve real equality in every area: equal pay for equal work, protection for working mothers, fairness in career advancements, equality of spouses with regard to family rights and the recognition of everything that is part of the rights and duties of citizens in a democratic State.

This is a matter of justice but also of necessity. Women will increasingly play a part in the solution of the serious problems of the future: leisure time, the quality of life, migration, social services, euthanasia, drugs, health care, the ecology, etc. In all these areas a greater presence of women in society will prove most valuable, for it will help to manifest the contradictions present when society is organized solely according to the criteria of efficiency and productivity, and it will force systems to be redesigned in a way which favours the pro- cesses of humanization which mark the "civilization of love".

5. Then too, when we look at one of the most sensitive aspects of the situation of women in the world, how can we not mention the long and degrading history, albeit often an "underground" history, of violence against women in the area of sexuality? At the threshold of the Third Millennium we cannot remain indifferent and resigned before this phenomenon. The time has come to condemn vigorously the types of sexual violence which frequently have women for their object and to pass laws which effectively defend them from such violence. Nor can we fail, in the name of the respect due to the human person, to condemn the widespread hedonistic and commercial culture which encourages the systematic exploitation of sexuality and corrupts even very young girls into letting their bodies be used for profit.

In contrast to these sorts of perversion, what great appreciation must be shown to those women who, with a heroic love for the child they have conceived, proceed with a pregnancy resulting from the injustice of rape. Here we are thinking of atrocities perpetrated not only in situations of war, still so common in the world, but also in societies which are blessed by prosperity and peace and yet are often corrupted by a culture of hedonistic permissiveness which aggravates tendencies to aggressive male behaviour. In these cases the choice to have an abortion always remains a grave sin. But before being something to blame on the woman, it is a crime for which guilt needs to be attributed to men and to the complicity of the general social environment.

Notice, he places most of the blame for abortion on the male! I never knew this!

[Nikki Stone 1]

1. Discrimination against those who have chosen to be wives and mothers?

" Certainly, much remains to be done to prevent discrimination against those who have chosen to be wives and mothers."

This seems to come right out of Dr. Laura's playbook. Blaming men for abortion, however, doesn't. I'd be careful about thinking that kind of blame is good thing: it denigrates a woman's ability to make her own choices.

On edit:

I was surprised not to see something on the trafficking of women--especially from poor, war-torn countries--for prostitution. Or maybe it's there and I missed it?

[saracat]

3. Actually, I don't know if you read the entire letter, He has

high praise for working women and encourages equality in pay. He also talks about civil and political rights. And there is a bit of discrimination against those wome who have chosen to stay home etc. I have seen that myself. I am a career person and had a working Mom, but I have had friends tell me of their experiences being put down as "housewives". I don't think the Pope is denigrating the ability to women to make a choice with the "blame statement" but rather places blame on the male for impregnating the woman to begin with! I am impressed that he actually acknowledges the equal blame of the man, and actually places more responsibility on the male!
As far as prostitution goes, He does mention that as an abomonation. He also mentions the unfairness of placing women in a situation where they are judged only by looks!
I was also impressed by his thinking women should receive more credit for their technological and scientific contributions!

[roguevalley]

2. and that is why I don't go to church. Piss on it all.

[saracat]

5. I still disagree with most of his positions but he was a lot more

supportive of the equality of women than as he was prestented! I never knew he was supportive of working women and advocating for political and socail rights for women. That being said, I don't agree with the positions on BC and abortion. THAT is why I don't go to church!

[Skittles]

8. those dogs are just pitiful

tell them to ATTEMPT to be cool for chrissakes! :D

[bread_and_roses]

4. Denying women the basic right of reproductive choice renders this

virtually meaningless, as far as I am concerned. Safe enough to bemoan inequality and violence against women while you are opposing the very tool that promotes a full participation of women in economic and political life. The very tool that is a pre-requisite to effective anti-poverty efforts for women, the very tool that can help them free themselves from subjugation to men.

[saracat]

7. I agree. I am just amazed that he said even some of the good things he

said about equality, even though I think his position ends up denying us equality!

[JerseygirlCT]

6. Sorry, but everytime I read this, I think

flowers hiding a dead rat.

Lots of pretty words -- no serious action. Women as mothers, sexual violence against women while continuing the sick ban on contraception and the ability to control their reproductive destinies. Until women control their reproduction, they are prisoners. Society suffers as a whole. Women cannot move forward in the world, but are tied to home and children and dependent on men for their (and their children's) food and shelter. And until women participate equally in the church -- including the priesthood, then any talk of equality is also empty of meaning.

It's a lot of pretty language, but the practice remains hurtful.

[Skittles]

9. being against birth-control

that is about as anti-woman as it gets