Southern revolt on the ascent of Hillary

[emad]

The Sunday Times
April 03, 2005

Southern revolt on the ascent of Hillary
Tony Allen-Mills, Nashville



THE first signs of a Democratic revolt against Senator Hillary Clinton’s much-anticipated march on the White House are emerging in the American South, where one of the party’s most successful state governors called last week for Democrats to consider other candidates.

In a calculated snub of Clinton’s accelerating bandwagon, Governor Philip Bredesen of Tennessee warned that voters were “kind of dissatisfied” with the Democrats’ current presidential contenders and that Clinton would face an “uphill road” to win the White House.

Bredesen also expressed dismay that speculation about the 2008 race was already focused on the wife of former president Bill Clinton and on Jeb, the brother of President George W Bush and governor of Florida. “Surely in the United States we can go further than having to have a single family dominate one side and a single family dominate the other,” he said.

Bredesen, 61, was giving his first interview to a foreign newspaper since his emergence earlier this year as a potential dark horse in the presidential race. It appeared to reflect an attempt to raise his international profile amid increasing speculation in Washington that he may become the next southern governor to come from obscurity to take the White House.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1552437,00.html

[Frances]

1. Personally, I think it's time not only

for a new family but for a new region of the country.

At this moment, I'm looking at the governor of Montana.

[Wright Patman]

4. Personally I think it's time that the regions

become countries and then each region could have a leader in tune with its <i>Weltanschauung</i> (worldview).

It will be entertaining watching the leader of the southeastern region attempt to raise revenue for his nation's interests, much like watching the Texas Repukes try to raise taxes in this spring's legislative session.

[quaoar]

14. I like Schweitzer

And the Montana Legislature has just condemned the Patriot Act.

[More Than A Feeling]

21. I like Schweitzer too

Wes Clark and Schweitzer on the ticket together? Say hello to 16 years of Democratic dominance.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

26. Schweitzer rules

He's one of the smartest political figures we have in our stable these days. And he's shown he can WIN. Any Dem who can take control of such a deep-Red state as Montana deserves more than a second look.

[wyldwolf]

2. this hardly qualifies as a southern revolt.

And I think Philip Bredesen is a victim of media influence

Hillary will not be coronated our nominee no matter how much the media would love to see a Clinton-Bush showdown.

It's only the GOP and the media who think she will be.

Every Democrat I know in the real world, politician and citizen, all feel it is too early to think of this and are thinking of a variety of names.

[Coastie for Truth]

3. I have Bush Fatigue, Texas Animosity, and Harvard MD Animosity

No more Bushes - after George H, George W -- no Jeb, no Marv, no Neil, no Jeb sons.

After LBJ, George H, and George W - I am kind of down on Texans (LBJ was good on domestic issues but lost me on VN). Anne Richardson and Molly Ivins aren't running.

As to Harvard MD's - my surgeon is OK - but I don't like cat vivisectionists who diagnose outside of their board certified specialties based on five year old and heavily edited videos.

[CoonDawg]

5. bredesen

I think Bredesen is only voicing what many of us have thought. I certainly don't knock Hillary, but I think there is such venom against her that she would have a hard time being an effective candidate. I am a fan of Bredesen and he's been a great governor, as well as a great mayor. I actually think its somewhat likely that we'd have a Tennessee showdown rather than a Bush v Cinton. Frist is really working to position himself for the GOP nomination...and we democrats could certainly do worse than Gov. Bredesen.

If another region puts a good guy forward as our nominee, I'd love to see it. We just need someone who can get it done this time.

Ernie

[Frances]

8. I agree about voting for a good guy

I'll support the Dem nominee because there's no way the Dem won't be better than the Repub.

My native region, the South, has had Johnson (good on domestic issues, over his head in Vietnam), Carter (the most honest president since George Washington), Clinton (a very good president) and the two dreadful Bushes.

The state where I live now has given us Nixon and Reagan.

Massachusetts gave us John Kennedy (the most inspiring speech maker in my lifetime), plus two Dem presidential nominees (Dukakis and Kerry).

So, it's time for someplace other than the South, Massachusetts, or California, in my opinion.

[MollyStark]

15. " A good guy"

I think it's about time you all think about the language you use. Women are not going to vote for you guys forever.

[More Than A Feeling]

22. It could just be a regional thing

There was a list posted of ways you can tell you are from Illinois, and one of the ways is that you would call a car full of girls "you guys". Being from Illinois myself, I know the truth of it. Perhaps it is that way for others as well. It isn't a sexist thing.

[kevsand]

23. Hadn't thought about it before, but you're right.

While "guys and gals" clearly includes both masculine and feminine, around here the plural "guys" used alone is asexual in common vernacular. I'll leave it to the armchair psychologists to divine the deeper meanings.

[Al-CIAda]

6. Clinton is a LOSER. Damn, when will the knuckleheads

learn that. LOSER...Hillary wil LOSE.

Of course election fraud will pick the winner anyway, so who gives a shit.

[sendero]

7. If she gets the nomination...

... Im done, because there is NO WAY IN HELL she can will the election - she will lose every state in the south and that is enough.

Some people just don't understand how disliked she is. It is not rational but that doesn't matter one bit. She's hated in a lot of the country and she's pissing off the base in a lame-assed attempt to woo people who WILL NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER ever vote for her.

She's not as bright as I once thought.

[Pepperbelly]

9. She is not hated everywhere as badly as she is in Texas.

Not at all and come on, tell the absolute truth: no Democrat stands a snowball's chance in hell of winning Texas in 2008.

[sendero]

33. It isn't just Texas...

... it is EVERYWHERE in the south, with the possible exception of Arkansas :)

[Pepperbelly]

11. She hasn't lost an election yet.

She is batting a thousand. Granted it's one for one but still ... in 06, I suspect she'll be two for two. I do not know that 'loser' is accurate at all.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

27. Hillary has already lost the base

The poster was referring to the national stage and yes, I agree she's probably in lousy shape for a national run. I also suspect she'd probably win in NY in 2006 but she'd probably be so damaged from a run against Giuliani as to be even worse shape.

The fundamental problem is that she really doesn't have a constituency. Republicans will never, ever support her in a national bid, and their turnout will break 90% against her-- she's the best unifier the Repubs could ever ask for. Independents mistrust her. Democrats feel betrayed as she goes rightward on everything from the idiotic Iraq War to outsourcing, positions which are just enough to piss off the base but not enough to attract GOP votes. I personally know almost a dozen Democrats, in general college- or grad-school age men and women, who would either stay home or vote third party if Hillary were to be on the Democrats' ticket. Hillary right now has nothing more than name recognition going for her, and as we saw with Lieberman in 2004, that gets you about a month into primary season before other candidates wipe out the advantage. We need to be looking at better candidates, such as Schweitzer from Montana.

[Pepperbelly]

32. if she wins the nomination ... then she does.

If you do not support her, support your favorite in the primary. But it will ultimately be about who garners the most votes in the primaries.

[Pepperbelly]

10. Is Bredesen ambitious?

Although there is no doubt that the guv should be taken seriously, how I analyze this info depends upon whether it comes from a party loyalist deeply concerned over the the future of the party or from a competitor. That matters in this instance and yes, it is possible to be both but it is not possible to seperate what is self-serving from public comments when one is both.

[MominTN]

12. Contenders

Anyone that is seriously thinking about running needs to get out front and on tv regularly. This is a big country and people in TN would vote for Bredeson, even over Frist, in my opinion, but who else knows him? Bredeson was so quiet during the election, that I wondered if he voted for Kerry himself. Maybe he was too busy trying to figure out how to maintain his balanced budget or pay for our state welfare system, something the presidential contenders don't spend much time on. Anyone considered to be "liberal" is going to have a tough time winning. And with the direction our country has taken on many issues, it is doubtful that a woman will be elected, although in my opinion the world would be a much better place if it were run by women, and Hillary won't win. The Democrats need to get back to the party of the people. Find someone who meets the criteria for the majority, and get him on tv and on the front page of every newspaper. Why has everyone given up on Kerry?

[FreeStateDemocrat]

16. I'll true that, personally I like her but for president she is DOA.

[Clark2008]

35. Not really, Pepper.

I, personally, think Bredesen is happy where he is (I'm in Tennessee).
He and his wife (who doesn't share his last name - they'd have to do a Heinz-Kerry hat trick for the moderates and the corporate media) have built a future here in the state.
Would he rule out a run? I doubt it, but I don't get the "overly-ambitious" feeling from him.

[BlueManDude]

13. She will lose badly in the general

[Jacobin]

19. Yep. She'll sink like a rock

[madfloridian]

17. Bredesen, who did not appear with Howard Dean in TN?

Dean had appearances at the University of TN, two at Vanderbilt, one at the Tennessee Democratic Party HQ. Dean had to act like it was all fine and they were friends and all....

Is this the same Bredesen? 5 appearances, no arrangement could be made?

IMHO it is way too early to start worrying about 08, and way too early to start pandering to Southern candidates.

The reason we are in such trouble as a party is because every one is trying to pander to the South. When a group of people have their collective heads in the sand or up you know where.....and you stick your head in the sand with them it is just plain stupid.

The TN GOP ran radio ads comparing Bredesen to Dean saying they were liberals. Bredesen did not even meet or appear with Howard, and he did not respond to the ad.

Howard Dean responded to the ad saying "I have been called a lot worse than a liberal". I would have to look up the rest of the statement.

That Bredesen?

[Mutley]

18. I like Hillary

and would love to see her as the president...

but two points...

1) I agree that it is time for a new family from a different region

2) I don't think Hillary has much of a chance of winning... there is just too much stigma attached to the Clinton name...

Though it would be fun to watch the republicans writhe in anger at another Clinton in the WhiteHouse. ;-)

[Pepperbelly]

20. I would wager that ...

if Bill Clinton could run again, that stigma would put him right back in the White House.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

28. That's because he's Bill

and still one of the most remarkable public speakers and performers of our generation. Not something that anyone else in either the Bush or Clinton families has one iota of. That being said-- I'm frankly getting tired of both the Bush and Clinton families. We're not supposed to worship dynasties here.

[Pepperbelly]

31. so a Gore dynasty would be preferable?

Albert Sr. and Jr.

:D

[kineneb]

24. Barbara Boxer

is my choice, although she is far too "librull" for most of the country. I am ready for a Westerner to be Pres., someone for all the rest of us.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

29. Yes, Barbara Boxer IMHO would be competitive!

Obviously she wouldn't get many GOP votes but she wouldn't unify the Rethugs the way Hillary would, *and* Boxer would electrify the base. Any "Draft Boxer" sites brewing out there?

[bush_is_wacko]

25. This really isn't "new." Many of us have stated from the get go that

Hillary was not the best candidate to make the run as first woman president. I have believed from the moment of her re-emergence that she is the worst possible woman to run in that position! Hillary has a whole lot of skeletons in her closet and she has kept a whole lot of conservative secrets over the span of her EXTREMELY lengthy career in politics. Hillary did not just appear one day out of the blue on the Clinton train! She has been around since Nixon and her record during that administration reflects quite poorly on the value she claims to have regarding our democracy! She has held the power to do great things for this country many times and she has FAILED miserably in each of those instances IMO!

There are MANY other women in this party that have FAR better records!

If Hillary wins the primary I will not vote for her. It will be my first stab at voting Green Party or some other liberal party!

[Hosnon]

30. Georgian here...I honestly don't know what to say...

You gotta deal with us but we're strangely independent. In my opinion, the South helps maintain this country's sanity:)

[thebigidea]

34. so which Dem WOULDN'T face an "uphill road to the White House?"

"Governor Philip Bredesen of Tennessee warned that voters were “kind of dissatisfied” with the Democrats’ current presidential contenders"

kind of dissatisfied? we don't even have contenders, just some weird media fetish for Clinton. Only the hardest of the hardcore political junkies are thinking about '08 right now - which voters was this clown talking to?

[Clarkie1]

36. Question for all Hillary supporters.

If unlike me you believe that it's healthy for democracy to have an aristocracy, and that Hillary is electable, ask yourself this:

Do you really want the election of the first woman president of the U.S. to go down in the history books as being possible only because her husband was president?

Of course it's true that W. was electable only because his daddy was president, but does that mean we should nominate someone only because her hubby was president? Do you have to do everything like the Republican elite? I mean, we're supposed to be the "democratic" party, right?

:shrug:

[adwon]

37. Adlai again

Bredesen is afraid of the Adlai Stevenson effect. And it's a legitimate fear. Regardless of what Hillary is, the perceived Hillary, in the South, is just to the right of Lenin. The fear of people like Bredesen is not her running, it's being asked to campaign for her.

[Clarkie1]

38. Good point. Fear of association...

That could hurt a lot of dem governors and senators in 08' if Hillary were the nominee.

Scary thought.

[candy331]

39. My sentiments exactly.

"Surely in the United States we can go further than having to have a single family dominate one side and a single family dominate the other,” he said.