Three very important things to know about Michael Schiavo...

[CoffeeCat]

I heard these points discussed on the Gil Gross radio show, and they're also mentioned in this Atlanta Journal and Constitution article...

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/noads/0305/31schiavoobit.html

The three most important points to know about Michael Schiavo are:

1.) When Terri first became incapacitated, Michael returned to college to study nursing--to better understand Terri's condition to help her. He became a respiratory therapist and an emergency room nurse--because he so longed to do more than sit at her bedside. He wanted to help.

2.) Michael Schiavo took Terri to California for experimental surgery. Michael returned to Florida with Terri, when the surgery didn't improve her condition. He admitted her to a brain injury center in Florida and often took her to "parks and public places in hopes of sparking some recovery."

3.) Michael Schiavo cared for Terri for seven years, before he finally faced that she would not recover. FOR SEVEN YEARS HE HOPED SHE WOULD RECOVER. The doctors and nurses who cared for Terri considered filing a restraining order against Michael because he was so demanding about her care. Doctors repeatedly and conclusively told Michael that Terri had no chance for improvement. After seven years, he reluctantly and painfully came out of denial. Michael Schiavo made the courageous decision to honor Terri's wishes--which she had expressed to three people who later testified at the trial.

Michael Schiavo--You were a wonderful husband to Terri. You were her advocate, her nurse, her friend and her protector. You fought hard for her. More importantly, you had the courage to let go and to fight for her wishes--despite the razor-sharp criticism from half the nation, much of the United States Congress and even the President of the United States.

I am glad that Terri married you, Michael Schiavo. You were a devoted, strong, loving husband who honored, protected and loved his wife in life--and also in death.

God bless you, Michael Schiavo.

[WarNoMore]

1. Mow you did it>

You've got me crying now. Your post is spot on.

[Kerrytravelers]

2. God bless Michael Schiavo. With these nut cases, he's going to need it.

Don't be surprised if her parents sue him for wrongful death or the Justice Dept charge him with murder.


EDITED TO ADD:

Not because MS did anything wrong. In fact, he did everything right. But the nutcases just can not seem to let go.

[KittyWampus]

21. Imagine Going Up Against The Rightwing Attack MAchine With No $

or public relations to back you up.

[OneTwentyoNine]

97. Hell....bring it on fundies......

I'll guarantee there would be an ARMY of attorneys willing to work pro bono to defend Schiavo if it came to that.

Go ahead you crazed fucking fundies,get some trumped up charges going and watch the last shred of your credibility with the general public disappear.

[luvLLB]

3. Well said..i really do respect the man for his actions

[Auntie Bush]

19. Well, he should charge her parents and others with SLANDER!

Including the media!!! Remember Dan Rather? How come he couldn't say anything against our Pissident that couldn't be proven.... but everyone else can make any accusation they wan? They defamed his character and if I were him I'd find it difficult not to punch someone out! :mad: :argh: :grr:

[cynatnite]

4. Well Done! n/t

[tubbacheez]

5. Indeed. If all married persons had such a brave and caring spouse,

there would be a massive drop in the divorce rate.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tubbacheez]

42. If all married persons had such a spouse, and the spouses were dead...

... (as you claim)... then there would be no married persons left. And divorce would be moot.


And all the single people would then rule the planet.






Nice sci-fi scenario, but I'm not buying it.

[NMDemDist2]

86. your comment is undeserved

did you not read the original post?

MS proved his devotion, including the last decision honoring his wife's wishes

I rarely find my self in to position where the "personal attack" rules apply to my posts, but it is all I can do at this time to keep my temper in check

your post was way off the mark IMHO

[CAcyclist]

89. Go away

[R. A. Fuqua]

114. I agree!

no need for divorce with a spouse like Michael!

[wicket]

6. Amen!

Well said.

[Piperay]

7. He stayed by her side

for along time, I doubt very many people could/would do that.

[Kinkistyle]

115. I would have given up 7 years ago. Mike's a saint compare to me.

If it were me in Michael's shoes, I would have just given Terri's body to her parents and let them deal with it, taken the money I won in the court decision and moved on. Lets face it, Terri as he knew her was dead already. Why fight so hard for a shell?

Michael Schiavo is a much better person than I am.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drdon326]

13. Well said...Saint Michael is a pos....

hes scum.

[OKNancy]

15. I'll only point out one of your

errors. It is not against Catholic doctrine to be cremated.
http://www.cathcemchgo.org/cremation.htm

[hinachan]

62. Sorry, but the error is yours

Using that very page you cited as an example, one reads: "The Church earnestly recommends the pious custom of burying the bodies of the dead be observed, it does not however, forbid cremation unless it has been chosen for reasons which are contrary to Christian teaching."

In other words, while the Church doesn't expressly forbid it, burial is strongly encouraged. Therefore, a devout Catholic like Terri would want a burial, and Michael is once again ignoring the wishes of Terri and her family.

[onenote]

71. please provide a link that establishes Terri was "devout"

The court found that she had no spiritual advisor who could attest to her wishes one way or another...no priest who knew her that well. From all reports I've read, she was not a regular church goer. So who are you to declare what her religious beliefs are....

onenote

[MADem]

138. She used birth control, so she was a cafeteria catholic

When she went off the pill and couldn't get pregnant (due to the bulemia, no doubt) she went to a fertility specialist.

[CAcyclist]

90. Speaking as a former Catholic, coming from a very

religious Catholic family, I say you are full of it.

Your views are not welcome here. I suggest you leave.

That is all I am going to say to you. I am now putting you on Ignore.

[scarletlib]

95. i'm pretty devout and I am opting for cremation

[Auntie Bush]

102. My husband's Aunt went to mass TWO times a day

and she chose cremation. So there! Put that in your pipe and smoke it...if you already aren't smoken something!

[roguevalley]

107. So, you say Michael was a pos for doing what his wife wanted

but you know better than him that she was 1) devout and 2) would prefer internment over cremation. Wow. That makes you either clairvoyant, her personal confessor or her twin brother.

[Nashyra]

112. Teri had expressed the wish to be cremated

because sghe supposedly had an aversion to the bugs and other things in the ground. I heard that in an interview with Michael Shiavo, which is exactly why my husband does not want to be buried. We cremated our daughter because the thought of her being in the icy ground in the mountains was uncomfortable. There is nothing wrong with cremation.

[mondo joe]

117. What makes you think Terri was DEVOUT?

[ET Awful]

16. The only one naive here is the one that spews unsupported blather

instead of reading the FACTS in the case. First, he never had access to "more than a million dollars". The vast majority of the money from the suit was put in trust for Terri's care and has long since been spent for exactly that purpose (not to mention the fact that the only problems between the Schindlers and Schaivo began was when the Schindlers were filing bankruptcy and Michael wouldn't give them money).

Try reading the FACTS.

[hinachan]

39. I already read the facts.

You're just spewing stuff the MSM has been spoonfeeding you.

[deadparrot]

52. What facts have those been? nt

[Bunny]

54. As usual, full of MSM lies.

You have yet to let a good fact get in the way of your slander. Wonder if Mike reads DU?

[Debs]

125. I am not a huge fan of the MSM

they are however a vast improvement over worldailynut

[ET Awful]

134. Excuse me? The mainstream media hasn't reported any of the

actual facts, they report the lies and spew of the right and nothing more. My facts come from reading the actual court documents in the case and looking at the records instead of relying on reporters.

[Debs]

157. Good for you

You did well. Are you having a problem with my characterization of Worldailnet? They ARE the rightwing lies

[LostinVA]

141. The MSM???

What news channels have YOU been watching? They have been about 95% showcasing the Randall Terry/Schindlers' myths and lies, and letting them rant on TV without any regard for the facts. the MSM has been the Schindlers' WHORE.

Oh wait, you're the poster who told me the other day that I wasn't a a feminist because I supported Michael Schiavo. Hahaha. And YOU'RE talking about other people's agendas?

[MollyStark]

98. Those are not facts

That is no more than propaganda. It is no different than the propaganda by the right. In fact only about 150k was spent on her care. The rest has gone to lawyers.

[ET Awful]

133. Ummm. Do you know anything about how trusts are written

for medical malpractice continuing care payments as a result of lawsuits, whether it's settlement or by court/jury verdict? I do, I spent several years in a lawfirm whose largest business was medical malpractice cases. The $700,000 in trust COULD NOT BE SPENT ON LAWYERS. The trust is configured so the funds can only be spent for her care. Michael had no control over that money at any point in time.

Of course, if you knew anything about the case itself or medical malpractice law, you might have known that already.

[LostinVA]

142. Errr... wrong

Her award was in a trust with SouthTrust Bank,a nd Michael didn't have control of the money. Ummmm... that's what a TRUST does. All of her money is gone, and the State paid for her care. Most of Michael's money -- with approval of the court -- went to attorney fees, mainly because of the lawsuits the Schindlers kept piling on him.

[MADem]

17. Wrong on so many counts

The malpractice suit was against the FERTILITY specialist. Who failed to note that her blood chemistry was CLASSIC for a bulemic.

The Catholic church requires AWARENESS for receipt of communion, except in dire situations (impending death). Communion as a magic pill is totally contrary to Catholic belief. It is a sacrament requiring UNDERSTANDING AND CONSENT. She received communion via the tube before they withdrew it, along with last rites. She also received a symbolic drop of communion wine on Easter Sunday--that was done solely as a sop to the parents, and not part of Catholic doctrine, and unneccessary, since she was already in a state of grace (having received communion, and it being hard to sin when you are brain dead).

Facts are helpful things.

[saracat]

88. Thank You. I tried explaining that and got shouted down!

[Pepperbelly]

18. hmmmmm ...

you're mighty emotional about this. And you are responding with many assumptions buried within your screed that you assert without any foundation. In fact, most of this runs counter to what I have read except at some of the more ... esoteric sites.

And what do you think about them selling the donor lists to right wing marketing schemers?

[hinachan]

43. I'm glad you asked!

<<And what do you think about them selling the donor lists to right wing marketing schemers?>>

This shows how little folks here know about charities and their work.

It's a fairly common practice for one charity to sell mailing lists of donors' names to other similar charities. One rather amusing example of this was when I donated to a charity that had my name misspelled badly on their subsequent mailings to me. Within weeks, I was getting requests from other charities, with the exact same misspelling...in other words, my name had been sold to other charities. It's one of many ways that a charity or foundation will raise money for its own operations.

I can understand the folks at Fox News being unaware of all this. But it scares me to think that so few people here have dealt with charitable organizations, that they even have to ask why the Schindlers did this.

[Pepperbelly]

50. I work in fundraising and my company does not do that.

As a matter of fact, comapanies guard their data base jealously. I am in the business and this is not common practice among reputable companies. And my company ... cheap fucks ... would do it in a heartbeat if it was to their advantage.

But they don't.

[hippiegranny]

65. I am so glad you finally got here.

We have been simply floundering before you arrived to set us all straight on the real facts of the Schindlers, Schiavos, charities, people' motives, hell the whole damn world!

Thank you so much. I never knew what I didn't know I didn't know. Thank GOD for YOU!!!

[Pepperbelly]

66. no kidding. We were lost but now we're found.

:rofl:


What would have done without benefit of this knowledge and analysis?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hinachan]

31. "Outing"?

I'm neither gay nor a freeper...don't you ever get tired of being wrong? I'm a third-generation Democrat, who happens to believe that a human being -- NOT a judge or a court -- should decide what a woman can do with her body. I'm also an outspoken advocate for the disabled. Terri's wishes were NOT put in writing. Michael himself said (BEFORE the malpractice suit) that he had no idea what she would want. Suddenly, he pulls "her wishes" out of his ass, after her death would result in him (not the Schindlers) getting that huge chunk of change.

People like you are real big on purporting to know what a person is thinking, whether it's me or Terri. You love painting everything in black and white, no shades of gray, completely ignoring non-Right-wing people like Ralph Nader, Jesse Jackson, and the anti-Michael folks right here on DU...all of whom are living proof that it's not just fundie wingnuts who are upset by this.

[drdon326]

41. Its a time honored DU kneejerk reaction....

when you dont walk in lockstep, they label you a nut or freeper.

Pretty sad,actually.

[Bridget Burke]

151. Another DU reaction.....the Tombstone

Just like the one your friend is sporting now.

[thinkingwoman]

45. not in writing?

so they don't count? She was only in her mid 20s more than 15 years ago...both her young age and the time period work against putting her wishes in writing. Why does that make them less valid?

I have clearly expressed my wishes to my children (neither of age), my husband, my parents, and my best friend. But they're not yet in writing. If something happens to me tomorrow, does the government have the right to do whatever it deems proper because my wishes weren't in writing?

That's bullshit.

I'm an American and I have the inalienable right to liberty. I don't need it in writing.

[Pepperbelly]

57. My grown daughter asked me my wishes during this controversy ...

I told her that there were two conditions that should be met before extraordinary measures are taken. 1) Am I on morphine? 2) Do I know it? If the answer to both questions is 'yes', then hook me up and turn on the tv.

:evilgrin:

[thinkingwoman]

103. seems logical.

Way to boil it down to the important, but basic questions!

[MichiganVote]

80. Oh brother, your statement is soooooo revealing

>....who happens to believe that a human being -- NOT a judge or a court -- should decide what a woman can do with her body.<

So I take it,

A. women are not human beings
B. Judges are not human beings
C. Courts are not staffed by human beings

Exactly where are you living? On Mars?

[LostinVA]

143. Be careful, Michigan

The poster will label you a stooge and an anti-feminist, like she did me.

[MichiganVote]

153. LOL! Yeah, that's me alright.

[Laurab]

113. A person DID decide

Her husband. Her parent's didn't agree with the decision. Thus, he had them appoint a neutral third party. Do we also get to choose who the person is who decides, and then, if we don't like what they decide, choose someone else? When I married my husband, he became the closest member of my family. He would be the one I would entrust to decide - that's what marriage IS. You "cleave" to your husband. Not your parents, not your children.

There are shades of gray, yes. In this case, it's none of ANY of our business. It should have been kept a personal family matter - the parents chose to make it a circus. Her HUSBAND was the one who legally had the right to decide, and he did far more than many people would have done, when he thought there was still hope for her. I think you are the one who doesn't see shades of gray.

My only REAL opinion about this is that it's not our business. If we're going to make it our business, we should learn ALL the facts, not just one side or the other.

[Debs]

126. The courts ruled on this very issue

More than 20 times. THEY obviously felt that Terri DID make her wishes known. I guess what they really needed was YOU to testify. IF Micheal had made such an assertion its strange that the Shindlers lawyers were STILL unable to convince a judge that Terris wishes were unknown

[ET Awful]

135. So now you're bringing up the already proven fallacious argument

that Michael was after money?

If Michael was after money, why would he not take the millions he's been offered in the past few months to walk away?

Sorry, but your argument falls flat on its face.

Terri wasn't disabled, she was unabled. She had no cerebral cortex. That is not disabled, it is permanently and completely incapable of human thought, emotion or function. There's a difference.

[Blue_In_AK]

75. I've never met Michael Schiavo, and don't know

what his motivations or thoughts have been during the past 15 years. I feel I know the Schindlers maybe somewhat better because they've been an ever-present annoyance on my TV screen for the past month. If the allegations you are making about Michael's motives have any basis in fact, I feel more than positive that the Schindlers will be suing him very publicly and appealing to every court in the country if they don't like the outcome. All I can say is they'd better have some proof beyond all their insinuations and innuendo. Right now, my money's on Michael.

[Debs]

127. Of as the late great Hunter S Thompson once said

If you are going to call someone a pigfu**er you damn well better be able to produce the pig

[Blue_In_AK]

154. Perfect analogy. Thanks for the smile. n/t

[RetroLounge]

82. Sorry I missed your bullshit

But I guess the mods didn't miss a thing...

:eyes:

RL

[swimmernsecretsea]

9. Bravo!

I was so sick of reading about this case I almost didn't read this thread, but I am so happy I did. I found out so many things that I never knew before, even watching the news reports. You wrote it beautifully, articulated your points well, and brought home the real people behind this difficult case. thank you very much.

[Pepperbelly]

10. Very good post and one other small thing ...

she never had a single bedsore. Amazing.

:cry:

[MADem]

20. Important point, that

There are ambulatory couch potatoes who haven't avoided them! And in 15 years, that is remarkable....

[hinachan]

44. No bedsores, just potentially fatal infections

and "Do Not Resuscitate" notices.

[thinkingwoman]

48. source?

What is your source for your insinuations?

[ET Awful]

136. Ummm, you DID know those infections were as a result

of the insertion of a feeding tube right?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pepperbelly]

14. disingenuous ...

They won a million bucks and 700K was spent on her care. And in the world of our legal system, $300,000 K is inadequate recompense for the loss of a mate.

For number 2, I can understand that as well. They have villified him the the worst way since I have been aware of this tragedy. I wouldn't treat them well either.

As for 3, if MS wanted children, what was he supposed to do? Divorce her? Breed with her? The caravan moved on after 7 years of devotion. I do not know what else you would expect. His own suicide maybe?

:nuke:

[Hobarticus]

22. Nice reply to a nasty post...eom

[drdon326]

26. lol

That $ 700,000....neither you nor I knows exactly how that was spent.
The past 7-8 years ,considering he did NOTHING, probably cost chump change.

So you understand why MS ignored the pleas of a mother begging to let her take care of her child? And refusing the family to allow them to be present at her last moment ?

And damn straight if he had a shred of decency he should have divorced her and turned her over to the parents.

[returnable]

30. "turned her over"?

What a nice choice of words you used there. "Turned her over to her parents", like she was a piece of property or something.

How sad that some folks still seem more consumed with what the parents' wishes were than with what Terri's were.

[drdon326]

38. Oh...Terri's wishes, huh?

you mean that Michael,michaels brother and wife testified to ?

Not too biased there.

Meanwhile her family and at least 2 friends claimed the opposite but were dismissed as not credible.

some justice.:eyes:

[deadparrot]

59. Well, *maybe*

it's because they weren't credible.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf
(it starts on page five)

But hey, you know, you don't trust court decisions? Hell, let's throw them all out!

[Debs]

128. Gee I wonder if the judge KNEW that they were brother and sister in law

OF COURSE HE DID. Yet he found their testimony credible. YOU without ever having talked to them have found them wanting? What is the origin of your amazing powers of long range deduction? Did you use your Ouiji board? perhaps you threw the I Ching, no, I know you used your amazing mind reading powers. Was it just the fact they were related in this way. I guarantee you my sister in law not only wouldnt lie for me she wouldnt cross the street to put me out if I were on fire. Yet knowing nothing but this connection they become LIARS. Lend me your crystal ball I need to know who will win the fifth race at Del Mar tommorrow

[onenote]

139. you do realize that Terri became very close to michael's family

Michael's brother and sister-in-law became part of Terri's circle of closest friends. A whole boatload closer to her than, say, Randall fuckin' Terry.


onenote

[hinachan]

51. THEY WEREN'T TERRI'S WISHES!

Get it through your head, that was MADE UP by Schiavo and two of his Jerry Springer reject white-trash relatives!

[deadparrot]

55. Why would he do that? nt

[thinkingwoman]

56. again...

evidence?


Hint: Hannity is not a news source.

[saracat]

94. Terri Married him and the Shinlers approved of him and his

"white trash relatives' Until Michael didn't fatten their bank account!

[Ann Arbor Dem]

104. How do you know that?

Were you privy to Terri's and Michael's conversations before her heart attack? I'm genuinely curious as to how you know what her wishes really were. And I don't mean what her friends have said. Were they were part of the Schiavos' conversations?

[mondo joe]

119. Prove it.

Prove your made up BS.

[Debs]

129. And you know this HOW?

Got evidence? Thats what I thought. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD, you cannot read minds, repeat YOU CANNOT READ MINDS. The courts have more credibility than you, and especially the courts have more credibility than people who obviously think they can read minds from a distance.

[hinachan]

63. Well, Michael treated her like property.

<<What a nice choice of words you used there. "Turned her over to her parents", like she was a piece of property or something.>>

Don't forget, it was the courts that let Michael "own" poor Terri.

[deadparrot]

67. No, actually, wrong again.

Michael Schiavo, in 1998, after eight years of unsuccessful treatment, asked a court to determine what Terri's wishes would have been in such a a situation, seeing as there was no living will.

The courts determined that she would not have wanted to be kept alive in this state.

[Iris]

72. Well, then, why didn't he sell her to that talk show host?

"own" - what a ridiculous statement.

[ET Awful]

137. Wrong again.

Once again, if he "treater her like property" he would have accepted the millions he's been offered to walk away. He did not, instead he stayed by her bedside for 15 years.

[Pepperbelly]

35. clearly the dr in you name is not reality based or ...

you would know how quickly a skilled nursing home would burn through 700K. Quick! Like a poof of smoke.

As far as ignoring the pleas of the poor mother, I can understand that as well, particularly if it iw true that his wife had indicated a reluctance to live in a vegatative state. The ethical conduct at that point is to honor her wishes. The EASY thing would have been to divorce her and give guardianship to the parents. I have read that he was offered a million bucks to do the easy thing. He did not accept it.

I can understand how hard it was for them to accept and my heart goes out to them but because it was hard to accept does not give them the right to prop her up at the kitchen table like Grandpa in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Or, if you are a religious person, to keep her apart from her God because her meat was in good condition even though her soul had already departed.

[deadparrot]

37. IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT THE PARENTS WANT.

Or MICHAEL SCHIAVO. OR YOU. OR ME.

Terri Schiavo did not want to be kept alive like this. Over twenty judges have agreed with that assessment after looking at *far* more evidence than you or I have.

[Hobarticus]

40. Hope you never find yourself in her condition,

and someone like you is making decisions for you.

[thinkingwoman]

53. You've obviously

never had someone in need of constant care. If so, you'd know just how fast $700,000 can be spent.

Further, perhaps you and I don't know exactly how it was spent, but I feel confident that the courts do. From what I have read, the money was put in a trust and Michael Schiavo was NOT the one dispersing funds. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

[saracat]

92. Why don't you read the court abstract before you yap?

You don't have any of your facts right. Michael spent a lot of money on experimental surgery. You haven't even read the OP.

[LiberalFighter]

96. Every cent of that $700,000 + had to be accounted for

It had to be approved by the judge.

[roguevalley]

124. The 700k was put in a third party trust and there is about 50K left

after all these years. Mike doesn't have to DO a damned thing with his wife. He's doing what she wants. I don't understand how that is so hard to believe. The only puds that have said he was bad are the family. Everyon other person involved up to their elbows in this, including help that aren't related and have no ax to grind say he was an incredible husband to her. And besides. It isn't Christian or family friendly to divorce people anymore, or did you not get the memo? His decency is the only kind I've seen in this tawdry shamble. If he or his family gets shot by egged-on wackos, there are going to be a lot of people with blood on their hands.

[LostinVA]

144. This money was in a TRUST

Do you really not know how a trust works? It was held by SouthTrust Bank and could ONLY be spent on her care. Each and every payout had to be approved. And, it is ALL GONE. Michael still has some of his money left, and it is his money.

As I always say, you are 100% entitled to your own opinion, but never your own facts.

[hinachan]

47. A simple divorce would be adequate.

Just let the poor woman be with the family that loved her and was willing to care for her.

[Hobarticus]

58. Trapped in a body with a liquified brain...

May you never find yourself in that condition, with someone "loving you" and keeping you there for decades.

[deadparrot]

61. Okay, *once again*

It is not about what her parents, husband, you, or I want.

It is about what Terri would have wanted.

When Michael Schaivo originally went to the court, after eight years of treatment attempts, he asked that the judge determine what his wife's wishes would be. He did not go into this thing trying to get the tube removed. Once the judge ruled that she would not have watned to live like this, Mr. Schiavo began to fight for the tube's removal.

[brook]

69. ummm...

I knew of a woman once who loved her pekingnese dogs so much, she had them stuffed when they died. Kept them around her swimming pool. When said woman passed away, her daughter sold the pekes to a prop house. Guess they're still on display in movies and such.

Ain't 'love' grand? :sarcasm:

[Sparkly]

93. That's been my thought as well!!

The argument that he could "hand her over" to her parents because THEY desire to continue visiting her body seems so bizarre to me. Science kept her alive for so long, her brain liquified, but let's make the parents happy!? So if they feel better with her taxidermized, so they can visit her body, then what?

I think it's about as gruesome.

[LiberalFighter]

99. If they had had there way she would had been kept in that condition

indefinitely. Even to the point of being mummified.

The only explanation for that family is that they are sick and they need psychiatric help

[Debs]

130. And let them

Do exactly what Terri didnt want done. If as more than 20 courts have ruled Terri did not want to exist in her condition it would have been a base betrayal to 'let her family have her' considering that they would NOT have honored her wishes

[LostinVA]

146. Michael loves her, no past tense. n/t

[drdon326]

155. Probably....

as much as he loved her cats.

[MADem]

25. Nonsense

At the time of the trial, he retained hope that she would improve. He would have been overjoyed at a 50% recovery. Instead, she deteriorated until she had NO BRAIN FUNCTION.

He treated the Schindlers like family, until the father demanded half of the settlement. They were the ones who turned on him, not the other way around.

His so-called conflict of interest was encouraged, aided and abetted by the Schindler family. He never lied to the other woman, in fact, her brother did an interview where he indicated that he vigorously questioned Michael about his status. He also pointed out that his sister was no shrinking violet, and that she could take care of herself, and that Michael was an outstanding individual. The woman made her choice, knowing the full story and understanding his commitment to his brain dead wife.

You haven't made a single point that isn't soundly refuted by the facts.

[KittyWampus]

28. The Schindler Were Backed By Rightwing Attack Machine With Access

to MILLIONS and expert public relations.

AFAIC, some people are showing their true stripes on this issue.

[hinachan]

60. Damn right, my true stripes!

Stripe 1: I believe in the rights of the disabled -- even those not capable of speech.

Stripe 2: I believe in religious rights (whether you choose to worship or not to worship at all, it's a fundamental right).

Stripe 3: I believe in upholding wedding vows. "In sickness and in health" does not mean, "Go ahead and shack up with another woman while your wife is incapacitated." This would be grounds for divorce, were the woman in question capable of speech.

Nothing wrong with any of the above.

[Debs]

131. Does that include the rights

Of a disabled person to have her wishes not to exist, as a vegatable on life support, honored? No way in the world I would want to live that way. Would YOU? If someone kept me existing in that condition I swear I would haunt their dreams

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Double Disingenuous

3.He had a patent conflict of interest after hooking up with another woman and having kids and should have turned over the care to the parents.

He did that with the full knowledge, counsel, and blessing from her parents.

You wanna try to make like you're using facts, but you're using only those parts that suit your premise.

[hinachan]

68. That was their first mistake

<<3.He had a patent conflict of interest after hooking up with another woman and having kids and should have turned over the care to the parents.

He did that with the full knowledge, counsel, and blessing from her parents.>>

That was, indeed, a mistake. IMHO they should have insisted that he divorce Terri, first. But they all wanted to work together for Terri's sake...at least, before Michael started slapping "Do not resuscitate" orders on the woman. The Schindlers aren't the first people to be taken in by this monster, and won't be the last...all the pro-Michael people here are living proof of that.

<<You wanna try to make like you're using facts, but you're using only those parts that suit your premise.>>

No, that's what the rest of you are doing. Ignoring Michael's blatant lies and flip-flops. Ignoring all the Florida laws that were violated, and subsequently ignored by the courts, as well. Read the actual court documents, not just the MSM's summary of same. Though they're at terrisfight.org, the PDF's speak for themselves:

http://www.terrisfight.org/documents.html

Try reading for yourselves, instead of obediently parroting what the MSM wants you do.

[deadparrot]

70. So only listening to the Schindler's side is better?

I read the court documents a long time ago, at

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

and I obviously came out with a much different interprtation.

[Blue_In_AK]

76. Ooo, flip-flops ............. ???

[roguevalley]

109. really, why the hell do you care about SOMEONE'S PRIVATE

PERSONAL BUSINESS? Do you not understand that out of the spotlight this goes on day in, day out a thousand times a day? Robert Schindler killed his mother! Tom DeLay killed his father! The stupid friar guy killed his leader.

Its no one's business at all. Anywhere. Anyone. No. One's. Business. Who cares what you or I or any thinks about this. Who are you to impose what you believe into his life? You aren't God. You aren't a family member. You have your beliefs. I have mine. NEITHER of us have a right to push them into this. That is the biggest problem all along. Everyone is fighting about this like it was their problem. It isn't. We ALL need to butt out of this sad story.

Or, go out and find a brain dead woman/man and take over their support. Either live your words or butt out.

[Merope215]

110. Bravo

You're exactly right. No one's been talking about the fact that what we think about it doesn't matter. It was an entirely private decision and should have stayed that way. None of my business, none of Tom DeLay's business, none of Jeb Bush's business, none of anyone's business. That part needs to be talked about more.

BTW - cute pups!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

140. I don't agree that it's ipse facto no-one's business.

The important thing in cases of this nature is that the wishes of the victim are followed, I think, and it's not right to assume that their next-of-kin will automatically do that.

In this case, I think the decision that Mrs Schiavo's husband reached was the correct one, but I'm sure that there have been many cases where the next-of kin wished to continue to keep someone on life support in a situation where they would not have wished it to have been done, and a few where they asked to have them switched off when there was still a chance of recovery that they would have wanted to have taken.

In those cases, it's up to other people (specifically the courts) to intervene to see that the wishes of the
victim are respected.

It is other people's business - that's what society means: people looking out for one another's interests. It's just that in this case, nearly all the people who intervened have been on the wrong side.

[mondo joe]

120. Are you Ken Starr with all that crotch sniiffing?

What business is it of yours?

[democracyindanger]

121. BWAHAHAHA!

YOU'RE obediently doing what the MSM wants you to. YOU'RE rending your hair and clothes, believing that this is issue, to borrow the MSM theme of the day, 'divided the country.' YOU'RE the one, just like FOX, CNN and the rest who go on about Schaivo being an evil, evil man.

And thanks for the link, but I make it a rule not to visit websites established by anti-choice religious nutbags.

[LostinVA]

147. Terrisfight.org???

Hahhahaha? Not MSM's summary??? They don't give any facts, and neither does terrisfight.org. Your referencing THAT as the "real story" proves what we've all been thinking. Try abstractappeal.com, a site that truly DOES have all of the facts/court documents, with no lies, no editorializing,a nd no opinions. The antithesis of terrisfight.org.

And, for the record, Mrs. Schiavo was not disabled; she was, as a poster up thread put it, unabled.

Rest in peace, Mrs. Schiavo.

[sazemisery]

152. Catholic=No Divorce

[hinachan]

46. Glad to see there are some people not taken in by MS

[LostinVA]

148. Yup, that liberal MSM

Gotta watch every word they say while they let all the liberals in the land have 24/7 camera time extolling Dem memes...

[onenote]

74. conflict of interest BS

would you consider anyone who would benefit financially from someone's death to have a conflict of interest? If so, do you oppose ever allowing medical treatment to be discontinued if there is no written directive and the only testimony comes from a parent/spouse/child that would be the beneficiary of a will/estate/insurance policy? Do you think that the decision should be left in the hand of a randomly chosen total stranger?

onenote

[girl gone mad]

85. Nonsense.

1. Michael waws never asked about Terri's wishes during that trial. Why would he give testimony that was irrelevent tpo the case and unsolicited?

2. Terri's mother showered Michael with praises. Do these sound like the words of someone who has been treated like crap: "He's there every day," she said. "He is loving, caring. I don't know of any young boy that would be as attentive. ... He's just been unbelievable. And I know without him there is no way I could have survived all this."?

3. I don't see a conflict of interest. Terri's parents encouraged Miuchael to date, and he even brought his girlfriend home to get their approval. Terri remained well cared for, and completely unaware of the world and Michael's affair. It's a bit hard to cheat on someone who is missing the part of the brain responsible for emotions and is incapable of thought or voluntary response.

[LiberalFighter]

101. And why would he pursue Terri's wishes when he believed

that she could recover?

No one with good moral value would consider that issue until it is time. In this case he held out hope after many opinions by the doctors that she was PVS. Even then it took time for him to realize the truth.

[Debs]

132. If I were in

a Persistant Vegatative State for several years I would hope my wife would move on with her life, then I would plot revenge on whoever kept me existing that way for so long

[RobertSeattle]

12. I would change your wording slightly

The Right wing has very clevered removed "wife" from this whole discussion. And why is she referred to by her first (nick) name by people who have never met her?


1.) When HIS WIFE first became incapacitated, Michael returned to college to study nursing--to better understand HIS WIFE'S condition to help her. He became a respiratory therapist and an emergency room nurse--because he so longed to do more than sit at her bedside. He wanted to help.

2.) Michael Schiavo took HIS WIFE to California for experimental surgery. Michael returned to Florida with HIS WIFE, when the surgery didn't improve her condition. He admitted HIS WIFE to a brain injury center in Florida and often took HIS WIFE to "parks and public places in hopes of sparking some recovery."

3.) Michael Schiavo cared for HIS WIFE for seven years, before he finally faced that HIS WIFE would not recover. FOR SEVEN YEARS HE HOPED HIS WIFE WOULD RECOVER. The doctors and nurses who cared for HIS WIFE considered filing a restraining order against Michael because he was so demanding about HIS WIFE'S care. Doctors repeatedly and conclusively told Michael that b]HIS WIFE had no chance for improvement. After seven years, he reluctantly and painfully came out of denial. Michael Schiavo made the courageous decision to honor HIS WIFE wishes--which she had expressed to three people who later testified at the trial.

[hinachan]

27. Let's change the wording again

Anti-family buffoons have very clevered removed "the Schindlers' daughter" from this whole discussion. And why is she referred to by her first (nick) name by people who have never met her? (Probably for the same reason people refer to William Clinton by his first nickname, by people who have never met him.)

1.) When THE SCHINDLERS' DAUGHTER first became incapacitated, Michael returned to college to study nursing.

2.) Michael Schiavo took THE SCHINDLERS' DAUGHTER to California for experimental surgery. Michael returned to Florida with THE SCHINDLERS' DAUGHTER, when the surgery didn't improve her condition.

3.) Michael Schiavo cared for THE SCHINDLERS' DAUGHTER for seven years, before winning a boatload of cash in a malpractice suit. The doctors and nurses who cared for THE SCHINDLERS' DAUGHTER considered filing a restraining order against Michael because he was so demanding about THE SCHINDLERS' DAUGHTER'S care, making threats toward them for anything remotely resembling therapy. Michael Schiavo suddenly made up THE SCHINDLERS' DAUGHTER'S wishes--which she had expressed to three people who later testified at the trial. (Those three people being Michael himself, his brother, and sister-in-law. ALL OF WHOM HAD SOMETHING TO GAIN BY TESTIFYING AGAINST THE SCHINDLERS: SHARING IN MICHAEL'S NEWFOUND WEALTH.)

Again: Read the quote in my sig file. Proof of how he lied about what he himself had said in the past: that he had NO idea of what Terri would have wanted. PERIOD.

[RobertSeattle]

33. Sorry "Wife" trumps "Daughter"

It's the law.


BTW - When does a sig line indicate proof? Where is this mentioned in a court of law by someone under oath?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deadparrot]

73. What in God's name

makes this woman's word the ultimate truth?

And, for the umpteenth time, THERE. IS. NO. MONEY. He has turned down offers of $1 million and $10 million to remove himself as guardian.

[RetroLounge]

83. Wow, I am really impressed

You found the CAPS KEY.

Well, that proves it...

:eyes:

RL

[Auntie Bush]

32. I'm sure HIS WIFE loved him to the very end.

I also don't think HIS WIFE will be very pleased to see her parents when they get to heaven. They should get a good slap across the face from ol' St. Pete for violating her her privacy and selfishly prolonging her from meeting her maker.

[MollyStark]

100. You are kidding, you must be

Do you really think we get to heaven as angry and pittyless are we leave DU?

[LostinVA]

150. Pitiless? None of us are pitiless

All of us advocating Mrs. Schiavo's wishes are full of compassion for her. And, those of us on here who have gone through similar situations with a family member have empathy. We are the pitiless bunch. We are not the ones selling illegal videos of Mrs. Schiavo for $100, or grandstanding on TV 24/7. Jesu, these people make Elian's crazy relatives look like The Queen of England.

And, I have a question for you: where are the Bushes, Delay, Randall Terry, etal concerning the hundreds of people a DAY who are taken off of feeding tubes??? This is NOT a test case, people. The Quinlan and Cruzan cases were. This is political and personal; grandstanding at its worst.

[LostinVA]

149. Excellent point, Robert n/t

[mcar]

24. I had just read these things the other day

and I am filled with admiration for this man. What he has gone through for his wife is unbelievable. How he has been vilified, despite his nobility, is sickening.

RIP, Terri and be at peace, Michael. You did right by your wife.

[Nordmadr]

36. I would almost hope to see a thread where poeple honored

Michael for all that he has had to endure. He is not a saint, none of us are. I see no need to deify the man, but he has done what could possibly be expected of any loving husband and, under the worst of conditions.

I would want for him to read this and see a side that is not being portrayed in the media, or by the republicans. It is a side where sanity has not been replaced by zealots. It a place where facts are presented and he is frequently defended.

I am sorry for his loss, and I am happy now that he will be able to continue living his life. I am even sorry for the parents, for the loss of their daughter, and for their inability to see the good in Michael.

I hope that EVERYONE can come away having learned from this, and to put that lesson learned to a good purpose.

Peace.
Olaf

[shrub chipper]

81. and he came away from this

with HIS dignitry intact, a claim I could not make for the Schindler's

[ClassWarrior]

64. Emailing this to the Corporate Media Whores.

NGU.

[Spiffarino]

77. The most telling thing in this whole story

Her husband was offered millions of dollars to give up her guardianship and was also threatened with death, but he remained steadfast to the end.

"It's not about the money," he said. "This is about Terri. It's not about the Schindlers. It's not about the legislators. It's not about me. It's about what Terri wanted."

For years the nutjobs have accused him of wanting to get to the trust fund. "It's all about the money!" they'd say.

I call bullshit.

[progressivejazz]

78. And a fourth thing.

He said he would do what Terri wanted.

Her blood relatives said they would not withdraw life support even if that's what she wanted.

Big distinction there. I wouldn't trust someone whose religious convictions trumped my end-of-life wishes. If they're willing to do that, why wouldn't they lie, strip me of my dignity, and all the rest for religious reasons?

[dorktv]

79. My roomate's Newsweek magazine had a really

disturbing line about the parents. They said they would have kept her alive even if she developed gangrene and had to have a limb removed. It was never about her, it was always about them.

Mr. Shiavo really did an amazing thing by not giving in. He may have received 300K in the settlement, but he did not start the process to get the feeding tube removed until 4 years after the settlement, sounds like a man who really was in a hurry to get his hands on some cash. :eyes:

[Shallah Kali]

87. article link with gangrene quote

The Legacy of Terri Schiavo
One woman's journey from marital bliss to medical darkness—and the forces that made her story a political and ethical watershed
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7306483/site/newsweek/

In the early years of her condition, Michael and the Schindlers got along harmoniously, even living together in a house on the Gulf Coast for a while. They ensured that Terri received all variety of therapies, including physical, occupational and recreational. When those didn't work, Michael flew her out to California, where a doctor implanted platinum electrodes into her brain as part of an experimental procedure that ultimately failed. Back in Florida, Michael enlisted family members to record audiotapes of their voices, which he played for Terri on a Walkman. He was fastidious about Terri's appearance, spraying her with Picasso perfume and outfitting her in stirrup pants and matching tops from The Limited. At one Florida nursing home, he was so demanding that administrators sought a restraining order against him. But Gloria Centonze, who worked there at the time (and by coincidence later married into the family of Michael's future girlfriend), recalls a frequent comment among the nurses: "He may be a bastard, but if I was sick like that, I wish he was my husband." To better care for Terri, Michael even enrolled in nursing school.

Eventually, however, his relationship with the Schindlers soured over money. Michael had sued the obstetrician who oversaw Terri's fertility therapy for malpractice, arguing that the doctor should have detected her potassium imbalance. A resulting settlement yielded roughly $700,000 for Terri—which was placed in a trust fund controlled by a third party for her medical care—and $300,000 for Michael. On Valentine's Day in 1993, the Schindlers met Michael in Terri's room and discussed how to spend the award money. While the parents claim that Michael refused to use it for new treatment options, Michael alleges that they simply wanted the cash for themselves. Whatever the truth is, the discussion escalated into a vitriolic fight, and both sides stormed out, never to speak again.

SNIP

In the course of the trial, the Schindlers also made what a court-appointed guardian for Terri deemed "horrific" and "gruesome" comments—that the family would never remove Terri's feeding tube even if she had asked them to, and that even if she developed gangrene, the family would amputate her limbs to keep her alive.

[dorktv]

91. Thanks for the link!

For me that just killed what little sympathy I had for her parents.

[Ann Arbor Dem]

105. Oh for pete's sake...

What kind of parents were they? That is the ultimate in selfishness.

[Shallah Kali]

84. articles on millions offered to Michael to divorce his wife

Man Offers Million Dollars To Keep Terri Schiavo Alive
http://www.nbc10.com/news/4275140/detail.html?rss=phi&psp=news

California man hopes cash will end a right-to-die dispute involving a brain-damaged Florida woman.


San Diego-area businessman Robert Herring is offering a million dollars to Terri Schiavo's husband to keep the woman alive.

===
Schiavo's husband rejects $1 million to bow out
Calif. man's bid to keep woman on life support called ‘offensive’
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7150458/

A man fighting to have a feeding tube removed from his brain-damaged wife on Friday rejected a California businessman’s offer to pay him $1 million to give up his right to decide her medical treatment.


Thursday’s offer, which the husband’s attorney labeled “offensive,” came hours after a judge refused to let the state’s social services agency intervene — a move that would have delayed next week’s scheduled removal of the tube.

Other such offers, including one for $10 million, had already been made and rejected by Michael Schiavo, said his attorney, George Felos.


===
if it was just about the money why didn't he accept the deal?

[formernaderite]

106. Thanks for posting this..

I purposefully have avoided following this too closely...but your post certainly adds balance to what the media is generally reporting.

[shayes51]

108. The Republicans say they support the "sanctity of marriage"

except in this case! Suddenly, the marriage of these two people is not so important to them.

[kskiska]

123. They didn't support it in the Clintons' case, either

Remember how they salivated, and kept predicting that Hillary would divorce Bill over Monica?

[seabeyond]

111. why doesnt the news people have this information n/t

[Nikki Stone 1]

116. Heard SCOTT SCHIAVO on KFI 640 radio today. Says Schindler promised MS

"to make his life a living hell". Unfortunately I didn't hear what came before. If anyone heard the whole interview, I'd appreciate knowing the context. Thanks.

[Dr Fate]

118. It's not important for me to know these things at all.

It's none of my business- none of it.

SHAME on the Republicans & media for using a medical patient and her family relationships for propaganda purposes.

SHAME on them for making this private matter a public spectacle!!!!

[PittLib]

122. If anyone questions the MRI...

From what I understand(reliable source in the medical field) had Terri had an MRI, she would have been dead a while ago. During the alternative procedures (which Michael apparently never sought) metal was implanted in her head. Had she had an MRI - there would have been an incredibly adverse reaction (putting it lightly). She could not have had an MRI ... period.

[drdon326]

156. She should have had a PET scan.

[ElectroPrincess]

145. Well put TwoSparkles /eom