Is SS privatization scheme a smoke screen to end employer health insurance

[NAO]

Somewhere I saw the idea suggested that the whole SS privatization scheme is really just a smoke screen to draw flak and progressive energy away from the REAL agenda, which is the ending of employer provided health insurance.

Has anyone else heard this? Is it plausible?

[ananda]

1. plausible

Yes.

It's already happening.


Sue

[grannylib]

2. I'm too brain-dead to see any connection there; I find it more plausible

that it's a scheme to prop up the house-of-cards that is the stock market. It's Wall Street Welfare. More money for those who have money and fuck you to the rest of us.
Chimpy himself acknowledges that his base consists of "the haves and the have mores." He makes it seem like a joke but he's not fuckin' kidding.

[FreedomAngel82]

3. I wouldn't put anything past them

to have some hidden agenda. Well that and the republicans have hated social security since it first began.

[jojo54]

6. Hallalujah, granny!

Somebody else who remembers that infamous quote! Damn, I wanted to smack him for saying that. It just proved how much of an ignorant, greedy f__k he really is.

(High 5 - I'm a granny, too):bounce:

[atre]

18. Actually, I think the macroeconomic effects would be devastating

His scheme is wealth redistribution... from bottom to top.

The law of supply and demand dictates that a tremendous infusion of capital into the private markets ups the demand for stock, immediately raising its value. Because of the increase in the market value of the stock, current investors' wealth rises dramatically.

The losers are the new investors (the owners of these private accounts). Stock values simply cannot keep appreciating at the same rate as they have because the P/E ratios cannot keep declining at the rate they are... We could conceiveably reach a point where people pay $90 for a piece of paper that represents 10 cents in annual gross profit. That's not a good investment. Their best case scenario is that they earn virtually nothing on their investments over the course of their lives. The worst case could be catastrophic.

Eventually, if this private accounts plan is adopted, the market could quickly realize that the stock prices are unsustainable, and when it does, the stock market will collapse.

The rich people who either closely monitor the market themselves or hire people to closlely monitor the market for them and will learn first and cash out before the worst of it hits; the people who have been involuntarily "forced" into the market through private accounts and the people who are indirectly forced into the market through employee stock plans and profit sharing plans are the last to leave the market. They end up holding the bag, taking the loss.

Great Depression II hits. Instead of an FDR figure to calm the stormy passions of the public, however, the press props up a fire-breathing fascist who whips up a squall. No more free speech. No more civil rights. No more civil liberties. Doubtless, the public's rage will be misdirected to some identifiable group (usually an ethnic group), that will carry the cross for the rest of us. And with our military might, certainly we will try to obtain whatever resources we can through conquest. Perpetual war... And there you have it. A perfect storm ends the American democratic experiment.

But that's not all. There's also mass starvation. Social Security no longer exists as a social safety net to protect us from poverty. Because of 2005 reforms, bankruptcy discharge is no longer available to the middle class, and it's already virtually worthless for the lower class. The social safety net of the late twentieth century is gone; instead we have "risk privatization."

In addition, because of globalization and commercial imperialism, our economy is no longer equipped to provide us with the types of goods will need in such dire times (the types we've been importing, foods and raw materials). With the dollar collapsing, we no longer can afford these expensive imports. We go from a "knowledge worker", service-based economy to an agrarian society in a matter of years, with millions of people starving to death in the interim.

(Disclaimer: Despite my Malthusian-like pessimism, I am not an economist; I've only had a couple classes on the subject. However, I am very interested in seeing what the macroeconomic effects that capital infusion through private accounts would have, and this at least seems plausible to me now.)

[GreenPoet64]

4. I read an article a week or so ago here at DU--haven't been

able to find it since. If anyone has a link, please post. I think a bill may be introduced soon regarding employer provided health insurance and limits and such.

Please post! I'm interested.

[papau]

8. Here is DU thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x632

Healthcare Overhaul Is Quietly Underway (Bush tries to end "insurance")


Actions by government, insurers, employers and individuals are already underway to destroy health care as a shared risk - Clinton's "Portability" via all employers chipping chip in for universal health insurance is replaced by Bush as the "Portability" of "it's your own problem" (besides Bush would give income tax breaks to low-income families - of course only on the FIT they do not pay - and not on the payroll tax that they do pay).


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-health31jan31,1,3062069.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

Healthcare Overhaul Is Quietly Underway
By Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar
Times Staff Writer

January 31, 2005

WASHINGTON — Emboldened by their success at the polls, the Bush administration and Republican leaders in Congress believe they have a new opportunity to move the nation away from the system of employer-provided health insurance that has covered most working Americans for the last half-century.

[GreenPoet64]

12. Thank you! That's the one. n/t

[BlueEyedSon]

5. Nationalized Heath Care would be a smokescreen to end

employer health insurance.....

:)

[sendero]

7. I really doubt it..

... I never cease to be amazed at how everything Bush** does is a subterfuge to hide a more devious agenda, NOT.

First of all, the idea that he's gonna "sap progressive strength" with a bogus issue - well that issue is costing him as we speak. For the first time Americans are not going along with the program. Tell me again how waking up Americans to the fact that Bush** is full of shit helps him to advance another agenda?

You want to see a backlash against conservatives that they won't recover from in our lifetimes? Fuck up health insurance for the employed. SS is a distant future thing for most people and it isn't flying, try taking away the rank and file's health insurance and see how that plays.

It ain't gonna happen. Not even Republicans are that fucking stupid.

[papau]

9. sorry - but GOP is killing employer provided health care - here's link

granted they may not win - but they are trying

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x632

Healthcare Overhaul Is Quietly Underway (Bush tries to end "insurance")


Actions by government, insurers, employers and individuals are already underway to destroy health care as a shared risk - Clinton's "Portability" via all employers chipping chip in for universal health insurance is replaced by Bush as the "Portability" of "it's your own problem" (besides Bush would give income tax breaks to low-income families - of course only on the FIT they do not pay - and not on the payroll tax that they do pay).


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-health31jan31,1,3062069.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

Healthcare Overhaul Is Quietly Underway
By Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar
Times Staff Writer

January 31, 2005

WASHINGTON — Emboldened by their success at the polls, the Bush administration and Republican leaders in Congress believe they have a new opportunity to move the nation away from the system of employer-provided health insurance that has covered most working Americans for the last half-century.

[sendero]

19. I'm sorry...

... but I don't consider obvious trial balloons to be statements of real intention.

If the GOP does this they will singlehandedly put themselves out of office. Bush** can dream all he wants, the Repug congress is not going to shoot themselves in the heart for him.

[tsuki]

15. "Not even Republicans are that fucking stupid."

No, they are not. They'll blame it on small business. I can see it coming.

I provide health care for my employees, but if government takes away my deduction from my business, HOW can I compete with the box stores that do not provide?

If I drop the health care and add to the millions not covered, who is at fault? Me.

Selfish, greedy me.

[Pirate Smile]

10. I believe that is part of the "Tax Reform" they want to do - get rid

of the tax credits or deductions for business who provide health insurance to their employees.

The idiocy of this leaves me speechless - almost!

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. I don't think they'd dare --

it would piss off so many people and leave such a huge hole in family economics that it would make it not only possible, but probable to push through a national health care system.

[murdoch]

13. school privatization is the real agenda

As Deep Throat once said "follow the money". Look at what the conservative foundations have been pouring tens (maybe hundreds) of millions of dollars into for years - school privatization.

Look at the recent bankruptcy bill debacle - the credit card industry gave one and a half million dollars last year to members of the House Financial Services Committee alone. With the money they'll make from whatever they pushed through (are they bringing back debtors prisons?) it will have been worth it.

The conservative foundations have been working to line Wall Street up behind Social Security privatization and have had some success (but will probably firm things up next try). Just follow the money and see what big guns are being lined up.

The main financial (and door-knocking) muscle the Democrats used to have was labor unions, but since labor unions have been evaporating in the US for decades (Over one third of the workforce was unionized in the 1950's - today 8% of the private workforce is), well, it's no wonder the Republicans control the presidency, both houses of Congress and have appointed 7 of the 9 supreme court justices.

One thing I should add - these things don't spring out of nowhere. Often, they do try to keep these things secret, especially things like trade agreements, but they always leak out somehow. Any plan that's hatched has been in the works for years.

[KaliTracy]

17. YES! Besides wanting dumbed downed citizens, they want ultimate

control...

Read Education, Inc. : Turning Learning into a Business edited
by Alfie Kohn and Patrick Shannon

also read Why Is Corporate America Bashing Our Public Schools? by Susan Ohanian and Kathy Emery


For a daily update on atrocities in the name of education go to


http://www.susanohanian.org/

[tsuki]

14. I have wondered. I am being assailed from both sides. The insurance

companies are pushing me to cancel my small biz insurance (legacy from Lawton, once cancelled never regained) and provide "individual" policys (pick and chose.) Now the government wants to tax me for providing health insurance. As a small biz employer, I am caught between big insurance and big government.

[KaliTracy]

16. the trend is leaning toward Medical Savings Accounts... I work in

small company. A few months ago, out at lunch with the "girls" the HR person said they were looking into using Medical Savings Accounts instead of the insurance we have.

I am married, DH is trying to start his own business after being laid off last year (so he is covered under my insurance), and we have a 5yr son. When the HR person mentioned the $2,000 deductable before catastrophic care would kick in I nearly died -- I am living too close to the edge of the finacial abyss to even imagine what would happen if I needed to cough up that much $$ before getting the insurance $$. You can put tax deferred money into the account -- but what happens if there is an accident (my spouse had a skiing accident (out of state) a couple of years ago -- which, after doing the emergency room/trauma care out of state, after he came back and saw several doctors, and after the shoulder and knee surgery, the bill was over $7,000. He had been at his place of employment (he was working then) over 6 years. But, if the same thing happened directly after "starting" this plan -- how much would we have to pay out of pocket before insurance would pay? They are banking on "young workers" not having big medical problems -- but at 40, I've already had an MS scare (it wasn't, but had to have CAT scans and seizure tests -- over $2,500 -- not to mention a C-Section birth (which gave us a healthy baby (not that I'm having anymore...).) I was ready to go into our March Benefits meeting armed with questions, but they opted to stay with the insurance plan they currently have.

I'm still trying to find out more -- for I may not be so lucky next year. She even told us they are doing it so their bottom line can improve. For me, I still need more information.

Here are a few sites which talk about pros and cons....

Medical Savings Accounts: Theory, Politics, Pros, and Cons
Thomas J. Hendrix, PhD, RN
Kathleen Kaufman, RN, MS
The Internal Revenue Service recently ruled all employers, regardless of size, can adopt a medical savings account–type program as part of an employee benefit package. This frees all employers to adopt a version of a consumer-driven health plan as part of their benefit package. This could continue a trend toward consumer-driven health insurance that began with the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996. The authors review current health insurance problems, including a discussion of competitive market and insurance theory. The medical savings account experiment is summarized, including pros, cons, politics, and theory. Finally, the authors briefly review the theory of agency and conclude with a call for nursing to fill this niche quickly for the good of our patients.

more: http://ppn.sagepub.com/cgi/content/short/4/1/82


Medical Savings Accounts: The Pros and Cons of Rationing
from BlueCollar Dollar
http://bluecollardollar.com/MSA.html

this site looks like it provides HSAs-- http://www.msainfo.net/