What Do You Make of the Parents?

[peaches2003]

I was at first totally sympathetic of the parents and felt they were just using whoever they could to help them keep Terri alive. Now I wonder.

The Mother Mary (which is how she is now being portrayed in more than name) really needs help and if any of them loved her they would have stopped this crap and gotten her psychological help to accept TS died 15 years ago. All they do is further allow her to delude herself. Dad Bob- my opinion is changing radically. I heard he is very close to Randall Terry, so his motives are completely questionable to me now.

Brother Bobby is obviously out for camera face time, the money and a permanent job with the loonies. The sister- she looks plain stupid.

What do you think?

[HuckleB]

1. I think this is why I don't watch television "news."

[jean]

2. I've heard therapists say the parents are massive control freaks and

probably had a lot to do with their daughter being bulemic to begin with. Another person said their fight to 'keep her alive' allows them to avoid any examination of their part, as freakishly controlling parents, in her demise.

[poppet]

8. I wonder about this myself ...

what guilt the parents mught be feeling and what their motivation is. It is pretty disturbing the way they have made a spectacle of their own daughter ... it seems just to avoid facing the reality of the situation.

[dogman]

15. Boxing Helena

That is what I was thinking today when it was discussed that the Guardian reported they were willing to amputate her legs if needed and were ok with open heart surgery also. They didn't cre if her wishes were in writing, they would not honor them.

[Lindacooks]

28. I think you're right.

The fact that they have said that even if she had had a living will they would ignore it is proof they are concerned with themselves and maintaining control at all costs.

[CottonBear]

3. Mentally disturbed, spiteful and greedy.

Selfish.

[rodeodance]

6. grief mades some people bitter-that is what I see in the mom. As for

the dad--I think he is in early stages of Alzheimers or some cognitive impairment-degenerive brain disease. I am serious--he speech falters, he starts over. he repeats himself.

[Afje]

20. Defiance

I do think that it would be like a betrayal for them, a sort of declaration of indifference (that's what they charge the husband with and worse)if they were to accept the facts. This struggle to keep her biologically alive, no matter how hopeless, expresses IMO, a central virtue in THEIR lives. It's more as if they were concerned that they can lay easy when their time comes.
Religion is used to defy death.

[Liberal Veteran]

4. The parents lost my sympathy when I found out....

...that they testified that even if they knew Terri didn't want to live that way, they would still keep her alive.

Putting their own feelings ahead of their daughter just pisses me off.

[POAS]

13. That was a tipping point for me also

They claim that this is about Terri, it's really about them.

[tubbacheez]

5. Heavy emotion is understandable.

But not a good substitution for logic, medical knowledge, or the rule of law.



I totally feel for Terri's parents and family. They haven't had an easy time over the past 15 years, not really knowing if she's alive or dead. They are, as we all are, free to form their own opinions about Terri's aliveness or deadness. But that opinion has zero bearing on reality.

If the calm and detached professionals of medicine, ethics, and law have reached the decision (through the court system) that Terri is a goner, or has been a goner for quite some time now, then no amount of emotion can change that.

All emotion can do is deny and wish.





It's not easy losing a family member. But it's even harder to keep them around in this state, IMHO.

[Tilei]

10. .

I really do have deep sympathy for the parents. When they wake up from this nightmare they have created they are really going to need serious psychological help. From my own experience with hospices and end of life matters, most offer such assistance during and sometimes after if warranted. I'm not sure people at this hospice would be willing to help them, but they are really going to need it.

I fear, even after Terri goes home to God, these parents are not going to stop. They are going to try to go after Michael. That's what I fear about these parents. They've already raised the abuse flag about their daughter, when she dies, Michael is going to have another type of battle on his hands.

[POAS]

14. Maybe Randall Terry will stick around to help.....

or not!

[tubbacheez]

18. I agree. And welcome to DU.

I think you're right. The parents have created monsters of themselves. By drawing such a hard line, and for so long, they've messed themselves up pretty badly.

They and their lawyers thought they could use libel, slander, and intimidation to get their way. That's like embracing the Dark Side of the Force. It might work. But it changes you in the process.

And even if the hospice offers counselling, I don't think the parents would accept it. They've set up such an antagonistic relationship with the hospice that there's no goodwill anymore... no trust... no common ground on which to move forward.

What they've done to Michael Schiavo and to Judge Greer and to others is a scorched-earth policy of societal suicide. If they can't get their way, everybody suffers.

Being deluded is about Terri's chances for a normal life is a tragic motivation, but morally no excuse for unleashing such venomous attacks on good people trying their best to serve honorably.




There are monsters in this story. But they did it to themselves.


I don't know who (if anyone) can help them now.

:(

[shrub chipper]

19. Welcome to DU, Tilei

very thoughtful post

[Inland]

7. What does it matter?

Once you reject the argument that "the parents feel so strongly about this, why not let them have the corpus", it doesn't matter if they are stupid or greedy or crazy or merely concerned.

They had a legitimate right to bring their concerns to court, once. Those have been heard and rejected, in a fair hearing. It's over.

[alcuno]

9. The dad testified that he would cut off both legs and arms if it kept her

alive - with her cerebral cortex liquified. Can you imagine? You have no "thinking/feeling" brain left and your dad would cut off all your limbs if it meant keeping you "alive."

[CelticWinter]

11. I feel they are very selfish ...

no parent wants to bury a child, but to allow your child to "exist" in a vegetative state is inhumane, selfish and cruel. Instead of allowing their daughter to pass over in peace, they have made a three ring circus of her condition. No amount of legislation, protesting, people 'fasting', or acting like total jackasses are going to bring their daughter back. Those who have tried to sneak in water, dont they understand that if she can't swallow her own saliva that she could very well choke to death on water.
Her parents should put Terri FIRST and let her go, isnt love "Letting Go".

[ICantBelieve]

12. Not really my business, but...

I think they are irrational because their natural grieving process has been interrupted. This could happen to any of us, and it doesn't help that they're being encouraged to stay in limbo by the right wingnuts. I can't imagine what this has done to their relationships with their own family that is distant enough to have kept a rational view. It must have created an "us and them" scenerio. It's just awful. I think they're going to need lots of help. The way the religious right has taken advantage of their vulnerability is a disgrace.

[NMDemDist2]

16. Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy

Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy (MSP) is a parenting disorder where parents, usually the mother, fabricate symptoms in their children, thus subjecting the child to unnecessary medical tests and/or surgical procedures. In some cases, the parents also inflict injury and can kill their children in the process. MSP is not rare in Apnea Programs. Apnea is the perfect disorder for MSP, because infants appear normal between episodes. Therefore, a parent can bring her baby to a medical facility, fabricate a history of an apparent life threatening event, and the baby will be admitted, many tests performed, sometimes even surgery (such as tracheostomomies) are performed. MSP parents can be quite good at this, often switching from doctor to doctor so that it is difficult for one individual to put it all together. There have been documented cases of MSP in apnea clinics. However, these are much rare than "true" infant apnea.

There is a profile of a parent who is likely to cause MSP. They are usually the mothers. They are often health professionals, especially nurses and respiratory therapists. They often are very friendly with health professionals and cooperative with medical procedures. They appear quite concerned about their child, and are sometimes described as overly concerned. Some psychiatrists believe that this is an attention-seeking behavior. Obviously, not all health professionals who are nice to deal with have MSP.

I would think that MSP is more likely a problem in Apnea programs than it is in babies who have died from SIDS. The diagnosis of MSP is difficult to make. Pediatricians are uncomfortable even suspecting someone of MSP. After all, in training, pediatricians are trained to listen to parents' histories of their children and to believe them. Confirmation of the diagnosis is very difficult. Covert video-surveillance has been used in some settings, but a court order is often required to do this without the parent's knowledge. When the diagnosis is made, the baby must usually be placed in protective custody and psychotherapy is used on the parents.

[caligirl]

26. also a diagnosis drs stoop to when unable to diagnose celiac disease. n/t

[OneTwentyoNine]

17. Not much since they brought Randal Terry into this...

That fucking ass clown should be run out of town on a rail,he still owes our city over a $$MILLION for police overtime and other costs related to him and those dip-wads that followed him in Operation Rescue.

One of his ass munch lemmings shot an abortion doctor at one of his little gatherings here in Wichita,a little higher and he would be dead. That stupid bitch is doing 25 to life for her fanatic fascination with Randal.

No wonder Terry and his wife divorced,she finally figured out he's a fanatical piece of crap and didn't want any more of it.

[liberal43110]

21. i would be interested to hear a therapist's opinion on the parents

i can't imagine doing what they have. it's clearly not a healthy expression of love for a daughter, a daughter they lost 15 years ago.

i had to make the decision to remove a feeding tube from my father, and of course it is a difficult and painful decision. but the only thing worse than losing my father was seeing him suffer. you have to be strong enough to realize that your loved one is suffering....and already gone.

that's the true irony of a situation like this. the schindlers have already lost their daughter. she essentially died 15 years ago. they aren't doing her or themselves any good by refusing to grieve and deal with that loss.

[SillyGoose]

22. Wow. Not judgmental are you?

:eyes:

Thank you for being the ambassador of the juvenile gossip section on DU.

[calimary]

23. Denial. Denial runs DEEP-DEEP-DEEP.

Terri apparently had weight issues that led to an eating disorder. I'm guessing bulimia - all that purging leads to such things as potassium imbalances - which is what set off her cardiac arrest. But the term "eating disorder" has come up again and again in more extensive coverage of her case. I've also read that she didn't have the greatest relationship with her parents when she was younger, and that her family razzed her about her weight. If she wound up with an eating disorder trying to deal with her self-esteem collapse (being put down for a weight issue you're probably already over-sensitive about), then perhaps deep-down, her parents have some guilt feelings about this. Probably on the surface they don't, because I'd bet they think they've never done anything wrong to her or been abusive or cruel, and this eating disorder stuff is just some fancy-schmancy excuse thing that some northeastern liberal made up. Or maybe it's "junk science." I've seen posts here speculating that they'll need serious counseling after Terri dies (if indeed they don't need it NOW), but they probably won't seek any. They're the "victims" here, hurt because they aren't getting their way. Why on earth would THEY need any therapy?

I've seen denial do some awfully twisted, illogical, unreasonable, irrational things. And considering the eating disorder factor, I'm not terribly sympathetic to these people. I mentioned to my husband just this morning that - if Mrs. Schindler has any awareness of having contributed to Terri's condition by exacerbating (or provoking) her eating disorder, she's got a hell of a way to show she's sorry for it.

And now, they've not only refused to bow gracefully to all these many court cases - all of which go against them - and they insist on making these misleadingly edited videotape moments parading Terri all over the airwaves all over the country (and the world, frankly), at her worst and most vulnerable, then I can't help it - I think they're pretty low. I would no more make a spectacle of my daughter or son in such a stage, just to win an argument. Terri's lost any possibility of a death with dignity. Making a sideshow act out of her and dragging out her suffering for 15 (!) years has robbed her of whatever dignity she may once have had. They've made her into a freak, and they're exploiting her to make themselves feel better and to put off having to face a very hard reality. They need to let go and let her die in peace. Something they probably should have done long ago, but couldn't - mainly because this was NEVER about Terri. It WAS, however, about them. And now that they've brought jackals like Randall Terry and those other opportunistic infections into this, it's become a pig-fuck. Gee thanks, mom and dad. You really protected your daughter, alright.

It's a disgrace. Especially when they testified that they were indeed willing to have arms and legs amputated, limb by limb, if diabetes and gangrene set in, and subject her to radical heart surgery if need be, just to keep her carcass viable. No wonder Michael Schiavo never agreed to give them a divorce. I wouldn't subject my spouse to people who were willing to do that to him. They insist she's still living. You call her present condition LIVING? It's horrible what happened to her. And they're only making it worse. They're only prolonging her agony - and their own, also.

[Catchawave]

24. I think they're being manipulated by some really bad

advisors and a snake oil attorney.

[candy331]

25. To insinuate that she was abused at hospice and not step in to say

no way does not endear them to me for sure. My daughter is a nurse and works the trauma unit in emergency room of a busy hospital and sometimes she is so emotionally connected to patients that she can't sleep well. For someone to listen to accusations of this kind being hurled and not step up to defend the hard working and caring people in hospice says a lot about them to me. People come in my store and buy flowers all the time to say thank you to caretakers of family members and then go on to elaborate to me how grateful they are that these health professionals took good care of their loved ones. Grant you I know this is an emotional time for them but to show thanklessness and then allow others to smear the care takers is a hint to their character for me.

[deadparrot]

27. Sad people.

Pathetic, really.

They've been manipulated to such a degree that they've lost all touch with reality. They haven't listened to any doctor except those who tell them what they want to hear--I can understand to a degree; it is their child. A daughter who was sick at the time of her accident. I think their minds have been twisted; they're oblivious their daughter's medical condition, and that's very sad.

[leftofthedial]

29. If they really loved her, they'd let her go

They are being manipulated by a crowd of well-financed religiously insane wack jobs.