Politics professor considering challenging Lieberman

[donsu]

http://www.courant.com/news/local/statewire/hc-17013213.apds.m0824.bc-ct-liebemar17,0,2291325.story

-snip-

John Orman, of Trumbull, said he is creating an advisory committee to evaluate a run for the Democratic nomination.

"There is a great national debate going on for the heart and soul of the Democratic party," said Orman, 56. "Let the battle begin here and now in Connecticut."

-snip-


"Our party's Senator is no longer a Democrat. He has joined the Republicrat Party," said Orman. "After 17 years as a safe-seat senator, Joe has lost touch with his party and with his state."

Orman said he is gathering liberal Democrats, including labor leaders, to gauge his potential success. But he acknowledged that Lieberman is very popular and will have the support of the Democratic party's establishment. Mounting the challenge now, "could make Joe Lieberman be a Democrat for a year," he said.
-snip-
-----------------------------------

Orman doesn't need the dem party, he has us and the internet.

[blogbear]

1. Lets Get to Know More.. About Orman!

[ooglymoogly]

4. second that emotion

kick...would be good to see some competition to baloneyman

[calimary]

47. I third it! Let's follow this guy - I'd like to send him some campaign

money if he does this.

[cestpaspossible]

5. I think he is a long time Lieberman critic

I would really like to see someone who has actually been elected to something express some interest.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. OK. Could we have a "mini" Jeb Bartlett here?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[autorank]

6. Orman for Senator! Has a nice ring to it. This is a great step.

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. Lieberman's popular 'cause people haven't been paying attention.

And he no doubt gets fawning local infotainment coverage as CT's celebrity sacred cow. He's a horrible senator.

If Orman runs a serious campaign... i.e. pulls no punches... Lieberman will lose the dem primary and try to sneak through on a third party line in Nov.

Orman should counter this by running in the Green primary also.

Someone post a website, please, so mainstream Dems can help Orman.

[kentuck]

8. It can only be a positive..

Go for it!

[mandyky]

9. I wonder if he knows Jim Dean and if

DFA could support him? JD just met with CT DFAers last week....

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. DFA will not support a primary challenge to a sitting Senator

Especially while Dean is DNC Chairman.

[PassingFair]

29. B.

S.

[mandyky]

30. Howard Dean is no longer part of DFA

His brother Jim is the Chairman of DFA now, and anyone can apply for help, even non Democrats (as long as they are fiscally responsilbe and progressive).

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. There's a reason that he put his brother in charge

Rather that put in someone who is experienced in politics, he put in a puppet who would do what he wanted done.

[Larkspur]

31. Not true.

Dean would support Dem primary challenges, but he would not publicly favor one candidate over the other. He would expect the Dems to campaign fairly and after the primary get behind the winner.

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. How do you know that Dean would do these things?

Has he ever said that he would do these things? How candidates did DFA support in 2004 who were challenging incumbent Democrats?

[Larkspur]

36. The Primary is a legitimate democratic tool for changing leaders

Dean is a strong supporter of our democratic way of life. If Democrats feel strongly about challenging their local Dem leader, they have a legal right to do so, and Dean would have no legal right to stand in their way. His role as DNC Chair is to make sure the primary is done legally and that Democrats unite after the Primary to challenge Republicans.

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. The party has traditionally supported incumbants

wheather they are facing challenges in the general election or the primary. If Lieberman were to face a challenge, you can bet that the DSCC would support him.

[Larkspur]

50. Dean is not the DSCC. He's DNC chair, not DSCC chair

You said that Dean would support Lieberman in a primary. That is inaccurate. The DSCC is another group, not run by the DNC or chaired by Howard Dean.

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. Dean will endorse and campaign for Liebeman if there is a priamry

You can take that to the bank.

[loyalsister]

59. Are you serious?

How involved in politics are you?
Traditionally, the party stays out of primaries.
That's why it was such a scandal when Gore endorsed Dean.
There is no way that Dean would stick his nose in CT's primary.

[ISUGRADIA]

60. There was no incumbent in the 2004 pres race

that's a big difference. In an OPEN race the party should stay neutral. The DSCC is goign to back Lieberman. Dean is not going to stay neutral in a primary contest with an incumbent Dem Senator. Name me the last time a DNC chair refused to campaign for an incument Senator.

[Larkspur]

64. Howard Dean is not Terry McAwful

and again the DSCC is a seperate committee from the DNC. Dean does not like Lieberman and Lieberman hates Howard Dean. Dean will stay neutral in a legit CT Primary race.

[Larkspur]

63. It's not the role of the DNC chair to meddle in a legit primary

You can take it to the bank that Howard Dean will NOT meddle in a CT Primary battle with Lieberman, if that primary arises. As DNC Chair, Howard Dean will neither endorse nor discourage a primary battle with Lieberman. He will remain neutral and only comment that both sides play by the rules.

Remember, Joe Lieberman hates Howard Dean and Dean is not a fan of Joemomentum either. I seriously doubt that Dean will campaign for Lieberman in CT. He was here in CT 2004 representing DFA and campaigning for Diane Farrell and Jim Sullivan, and Dean did not even mention Lieberman's name. Lieberman would have to request Dean to come to campaign for him, and I don't see Holy Joe doing that.

[Radical Activist]

41. I can't believe people are disagreeing with this statement.

How many times does DFA have to support moderate and conservative Democrats before people get the fact that it isn't there to move the party left? DFA will never support a challenger to Lieberman.

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. These are the same type of people who though

that the Democrats in Congress would all be marching in lock-step once Dean became DNC Chairman.

[Larkspur]

51. I'm a CT DFA'r and I will not be voting for Lieberman period.

And most CT DFA'rs hate Lieberman.

[Radical Activist]

52. You're spending time in an organization that will not support you in that.

And that's fine if you're comfortable with that. Its my observation that many DFA members are more liberal than what DFA does at the national level.

[Larkspur]

65. True, Dean and DFA would say to vote for Lieberman, so a Repuke

won't win, but it's not a mandatory requirement to vote Dem in a GE to be a DFA member. Dean and DFA would not agree with my vote, but they know that you can not force people to vote for a Dem candidate that people hate. Dean has publicaly said that if you can't support a particular candidate, you don't have to. Find one that you can support.

[mandyky]

61. Obviously some people know nothing about DFA

and have taken their dislike of Dean and expanded it to DFA.

DFA is grassroots powered. If CT DFA wants to back this other guy, they will and DFA HQ won't stop them. They will also probably help, if the guy applies for help. Jim Dean, Howard's brother, has Chairman since Dean becam DNC Chair. Saying Jim Dean is a puppet is such an insult, with no proof, just projection of once dislike.

As for Howard Dean and DNC, the DSCC is the organization that picks candidates and supports them, the DNC is supposed to stay impartial to candidates until they win a primary. I think what the DNC is trying to do now is to give money and resoources to the State parties not individual candidates.

[Al-CIAda]

10. kick

[saltpoint]

11. Orman sounds like he has the right stuff alright.

Although at this point in the game, if Buddy Hackett rose from the dead, registered to vote in Connecticut, and ran against Lieberman, he'd have my vote in a heartbeat.

Go, Prof. Orman.

[applegrove]

12. I love Lieberman. I expect him to be an Israeli more this year than

before. That is just the way that people behave. They come together with like people in times of potential war or times of potential peace (in this case).

I do not want to see us Democrats be stupid and pull down our big tent. How will be destroy a draft if we do not have every single Senator (Dems & Repugs) who are against it.

[K-W]

13. The republicans are criminals, finding a middle ground with them

is selling out the welfare of the American people for your own political gain.

This has nothing to do with the size of our tent, it has to do with whether we allow politicians to run the country or whether we force them to be public servents by electing other people when they sell us out.

[saltpoint]

14. Not sure where you're coming from on the 'Israeli' thing --

-- but Lieberman is more or less a Republican. He'd probably vote FOR reinstatement of the draft, especially if BUSHco wanted him to.

The post suggests that Prof. Orman might be a very viable alternative to Lieberman, who's seen around these parts as a self-promotional Bush shill.

[applegrove]

15. 'seen around these parts' - I detect opposition to how Lieberman is

seen in every thread about him. Many admire his past record. The fact is if we knee jerk and get rid of someone who does vote with the party on important issues.. well then the chances that there will be no change in 2 years are much greater.

Don't loose our heads. Think like adults. No you do not see eye to eye with Lieberman and he, like all Israeli Hawks, has gotten a little giddy with the idea of peace in Israel...but once that issue is solved (once the Palestinians & the Israelis have a deal) Lieberman is very much one of us.

Did you not know that the majority of Democrats are fiscal conservatives? Even the Liberal Party in Canada are fiscal conservatives. This does not mean that we are against socialized health care.. it just means we like it when government is not so much in debt .. and pays a little attention to the laws of capital markets.

So please do not paint one of the few heroes we have left into a corner because you are so mad.

You say he will probably vote for the draft? You have no information on that. And why not do something productive and call his office and ask him how he feels about draft. Keep in mind that it may be only 1 or 2 Senators who could overturn the Bush laws that are & will continue to be passed. Lieberman could be very soon the only one vote that stands between you and the draft. Do you want to isolate him? If you do.. you play into the hands of the Rovbots by destroying our plurality. You destroy our big tent.

What exactly do you think the whole "make them hate each other and divide up into tribal (religious & peer like groups)" policy is about? It is about undoing the Democratic plurality of a big tent that has kept the Democrats in power even when they didn't have the money.

Wake up. Don't use that Lieberman will vote for the draft argument until you have proof. The current draft talk is likely more about spooking Iran than anything else.

[K-W]

16. You are discouraging democracy.

You are arguing that instead of supporting candidates who more accurately represent our ideas on government we should continue to vote for incumbent democrats because they dont deserve to lose thier jobs because they arent that bad.

How about this, how about we have elections where we have actual choices so that we can hold politicians accountable for thier actions and democratize our government, how about Joe Lieberman represents his constituents or gives up his seat.

Fiscal conservatism? We arent discussing fiscal conservatism, EVERYONE in congress is a fiscal conservative, I imagine everyone here on this forum is as well. We all believe in careful money management and we all believe in efficient government and proper usage of tax money.

The Republicans aren't fiscal conservatives they are fiscal radicals. The economy they are creating is not traditional or careful.

[mcd1982]

17. interesting thread

"how about Joe Lieberman represents his constituents or gives up his seat"

Do you live in Conn.? If not, you have no right to criticize Lieberman on how well he does or does not represent his state. If they keep reelecting him, he's obviously doing something right in their eyes, or they would kick him out of the senate.

Senators run to represent a state, not tow some national party line.

on edit: What is Sen. Dodd's record like compared to Lieberman's?

[saltpoint]

22. You're right about representing constituencies, but --

-- not completely fair because a Senate seat is also a national office. National policies are forged there and so persuasion may come and should come from all corners.

If Joe Lieberman shills for Bush over Iraq, for instance, or bolts from the Democratic Party on Social Security for instance, that very much is everyone's concern, not just his state's voters.

[CTLawGuy]

48. I AM from Connecticut

and I know that Joe Lieberman is to the right of 75% of CT REPUBLICANS.

We are talking about the state where our Repug governor wants to sign a civil unions bill.

[K-W]

58. Actually I am registered to vote in connecticut, but you are still wrong.

I dont have to be his constituent to critisize his performance. All I need are the facts and a brain to do that.

And Im sorry, but the policies Lieberman wants to compromise on are policies designed to hurt a majority of the American people, Lieberman isnt representing anyone but himself.

[saltpoint]

21. I really am an adult, verifiably.

And I think Joe Lieberman is a self-promotional Bush shill.

I hope Prof. Orman challenges him in the Senate primary and I hope he kicks Joe's ass from here to Houston.

We gain nothing as a Party by permitting people like Lieberman and Zell Miller to come in an loosen the bolts on the wheels.

[leyton]

27. Our tent does not include Republicans.

They have their own tent (an umbrella, really) and Lieberman ought to go join it. I'm usually the last to advocate ousting conservative Dems, but Lieberman is from an incredibly Democratic state and could probably be replaced by a real Democrat.

[w4rma]

28. I've seen Lieberman backstab too many Dems to believe he should continue

to hold that seat of power. He stabbed Clinton in the back by supporting his impeachment over sex (while apparently holding MUCH higher standards for Bush). He stabbed Gore in the back during the Democratic Primary after Gore had picked him for his VP choice, even. He has done nothing with his power but to try to forment battles WITHIN the Democratic Party over little Republican distractions. That guy is a mole with NO loyalty to *any* Democratic voter.

[Ms. Clio]

39. "How will be destroy a draft"

Could you translate this into English, please?

[ProgressiveDepot.com]

18. Lieberman Could Use Some Competition

I respect Lieberman for being who he is despite the skewering he gets from many Dems -- but that doesn't mean they are wrong. He needs to hear the criticisms within a campaign and explain himself fully. The people can then decide if he is truly representing the Democratic Party and their ideals.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. But..but...who would replace him to shine Boobya's shoes?

Bi-partisanship you know.

[saltpoint]

23. If Lieberman were to lose his Sente seat, I have it on --

-- confidential authority that Bush will appoint Terri Schiavo for the boot-polishing position.

Now don't go blabbing this to the press, ok? You know how ratings-conscious they are.

[DancingBear]

24. A little anecdotal evidence

I was born and raised in CT- my 80 year old Mom still lives there.

She is a long time Dem, but has NEVER voted in a primary - only in the GE races.

If Joementum had an opponent in the primary, Mom would CRAWL to the polls to vote against him.

I believe Joe has the classic "one mile wide, 1/2" deep" level of support in Connecticut.

[saltpoint]

25. I'll buy it and say thanks for this post.

It's encouraging.

[zimmer]

26. Did you hear about this?

LIE-berman was bad mouthing AL GORE, the man he ran with in 2000!! Is this true? A friend of mine said he heard about it today from somewhere, but I can't confirm. Something about him whining about how Gore should not use such "harsh language" against President Bushco. He has become a real schill for the Repukes.

[leyton]

53. Talk about disloyalty.

They don't have to agree, but in the end it was Gore who brought Joe Lieberman 100% name/face recognition. Lieberman would be a relative nobody to the average guy were it not for Gore.

[IronLionZion]

32. If anything, this might be a wake-up call for Lieberman

a friendly reminder that his more liberal constituents want a progressive Senator.

Yeah, I disagree with him on some issues as do most of us here. But Lieberman is basically a good guy...and a good Democrat. You don't want some anti-social security Republican to snatch that seat.

[Wilms]

33. kick n/t

[Cha]

38. Time to put "soul" back in the

Democratic Party..that's for sure!

lieman and his ilk have done their best to surgecally remove it.

[Radical Activist]

40. This would be great. Lieberman needs a challenge on the left.

CT is not a red state that should be sending us a conservative like Lieberman. We need a new Senator, and the guy makes a great point that a primary challenge on the left would probably make Joe a better Senator. He would have voted for that bankruptcy bill if he wasn't up for election next year.

[Wilms]

42. kick n/t

[WI_DEM]

43. While I think Lieberman will be easily re-nominated and

re-elected, I'm glad he isn't getting a free pass in the primary.

[GOPBasher]

45. Cool. I've long defended Lieberman, but not anymore.

Even remotely getting behind Bush's privatization plan is ridiculous.

[CTLawGuy]

46. sweet

if he runs Ill send him money.

[Freddie Stubbs]

49. This is great news!

Lieberman gets to wipe the floor with this guys and show just how popular he is among CT Democrats.

[iconoclastNYC]

54. I think Joe will win the nomination

But hopefully it's a hard battle that will make so called moderate Democrats question how long they'll be able to survive being disloyal.

I plan on supporting his primary challenger.

[Wilms]

55. Keep n/t

[CTLawGuy]

56. kick

NT

[demwing]

62. Here's an interview with Orman -

He's written a book about politics and celebrities, and the blurred line between the two. Interesting stuff...

http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/040210_pop/orman.html