What gives? Why was LOU DOBB calling House Representative SENSENBRENER,

[flordehinojos]

"courageous" for a bill he is introducing to deny illegal aliens driver licenses? -- it seems he was slobbering with gusto all over all sorts of right wing thinking tonight. What gives?

[htuttle]

1. Lou is a paleo-con, not a leftist

Think Goldwater Republicans.

They aren't any happier than leftists with the Bush administration, but have distinctly different opinions.

[LoganW]

2. I truly hope

you don't think Lou is anything BUT a right winger?

He's CNN's "good cop". Anyone who can't see that is naive beyond hope.

[bahrbearian]

3. Why should they have drivers license?, They are illegal.

[left is right]

5. If they can get a valid D/L

then they can get insurance, and insurance protects all those other people on the road from financial ruin when they are hit.

[bahrbearian]

6. Maybe they shouldn't drive until they get a license,like the law

states, Do you think if you illegaly entered Canada or Mexico they'd
let you stay so you could drive around at your convince ? Upon edit
we have enough people with a license driving around without Insurance, do you think giving away license's stops them?

[TankLV]

20. Ouch! Logical arguments again!

Stop!

We can't take it!

[OneTwentyoNine]

31. Bawhahah,they'll buy insurance for their vehicle??

I'm still laughing,these are people crossing the border and working illegally for Bush's Corporate cronies. Buying insurance is the LAST thing on their minds.

[Boo Boo]

33. It doesn't matter what's on their minds

If they want to keep the drivers license they'll get insurance.

[OneTwentyoNine]

35. And what Insurance company would carry them? Halliburton Mutual?

It cost my 17 year old daughter over $1500.00 per year. I'm going to guess she's one HELL of a lot less risky than some illegal gear jammer crossing the border just to make a buck.

Lets see them try and get insurance...

[Hippo_Tron]

12. Because we let them in to be our slaves

So the least we should do is let them be able to drive to work to make a living.

[bahrbearian]

15. Your right ! Were is my slave , godam'it he has my car keys!

[TankLV]

18. Opps - providing a logical argument is going to get you in trouble.

I've always wondered about this very thing.

I still believe we are all residents of this PLANET who just happen to be born or live in a specific location - but that is an entirely different argument.

Why should we reward illegal actions?

I don't think we should.

[depakid]

28. Self delete- someone's already said it-

[retread]

36. Drivers' licenses are illegal?

*

[alcuno]

4. Lou has 4 thorns in his side.

Outsourcing, illegal immigration, the trade deficit and unfair trade practices, and erosion of the middle class. He would probably say that the first three are ruining the last one. Since Lou is outraged on a daily basis over illegal immigration, it's no surprise that he is outraged that they have driver's licenses. I don't consider it a right wing issue.

[tsuki]

7. I consider Lou Dobbs a Rockefeller conservative, not a NeoCon.

[w4rma]

25. I think he's probably more of a President Truman conservative.

Sure, he knows alot about stocks and his buisness is to report on them, but his attitude isn't one of someone trying to rip people off, just the opposite, actually.

Btw, Rockefeller was a liberal in the flavor of President Hoover. Back then Republicans were the liberals and Democrats were the conservatives. Democrats and Republicans switched on socal issues, while not changing one bit on economic issues (which brings up an interesting question, who should be labeled economic liberals and who should be labeled economic conservatives, nowadays?).

[Hippo_Tron]

34. Neither party was really socially liberal back in the day

Then again, there really was no abortion or gay marriage then and both parties pretty much ignored the civil rights question as to win votes, so there was really not much a social platform to really run on.

[Clark2008]

30. I know several Dems in border states who feel this way

They think that overlooking illegal immigration not only takes jobs away from Americans, they think it drives down wages. They frame the debate this way: it's not that illegal aliens are taking the jobs Americans don't want to take, it's that, by working for lower wages, they're making jobs Americans WOULD take pay lower, thus, making them less attractive.

[Leilani]

8. Lou Dobbs is the ONLY person on TV

talking about American workers, American jobs, & the shrinking middle class.

Since illegal immigration is one facet of our downward spiral, he does us a service.

Between outsourcing our jobs, & bringing in slave wage workers to hold salaries down, we need all the help we can get.

And FYI, Bush is in favor of open borders, & doesn't care about illegal immigration.

[European Socialist]

16. I agree

We should treat illegals humanely-but no country in the world would allow this type of situation to continue indefinitely.

[Robert Oak]

9. because they are illegal

Illegal immigration is not only a security issue, it's a severe
economic issue at this point and a very serious burden
on the US taxpayer and it's a hidden "cheap labor" subsidy to corporate agriculture and big business in general.

It's also just plain not fair to all of the legal immigrants who
are in the US as well as US citizens. One can play the system
with fake social security numbers to obtain Medicaid, welfare,
even government backed mortgages and also obtain US social security
(you know the program that's in trouble) benefits all the
while working in the underground economy.

Drives me crazy I see it all of the time where I am at...they have
the welfare checks, the subsidies for housing while driving a brand new 40k car around plus working for the actual under the table
wage of about 7 bucks an hour, all under the table, all tax free.

I mean, I feel like joining them working the system, Americans are getting so screwed but it kind of pisses me off because the nation
is set up for citizens...not a free for all world wide for anybody to show up here, undercut in wages and American (look at the decimation
of labor unions/high wages in the meat packing industry...solid
illegal immigrants now)..

but look on our forum...the economic costs are staggering and it's
all (of course) being dumped on the backs of the US taxpayer (not the corporation, they are also being subsidized with super cheap,
regulation free labor).

It's also bad because Mexico is so horrific toward it's citizens,
being not under OSHA and other worker rights and safety regulations
doesn't matter.

Lou is more of a fiscal conservative is what I get from reading his book...but one thing I've noticed there are a series of people who "make sense" on economics, trade, immigration and so on and then the corporate people. I noticed that Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan agree on trade issues (lord help me on Pat Buchanan's social positions) and I noticed that a series of "liberal" and "conservative" thinkers
are in agreement.

I basically think because it makes sense, there is only so much spin
on can put on fundamental economic principles.

Driver licenses are a national ID no matter how one looks at it...
and also how terrorists got around so undetected. It's a fighting point to say stop the 20M illegal aliens who are currently in the US
and the 3M a year from Mexico alone entering the country. Bear
in mind the total US population is 250M and you start getting the gravity of the underground economy on the US as a nation-state.

[salin]

10. Lou is anti (illegal) immigrant - it seems on the line

that illegals drive wages down for all workers... or so it seems that is his rationale for his stands when I watched several of his shows where he covered the topic last year. Not posted to suggest agreement, but clarification based on observation of Dobbs on the topic.

[DaveinMD]

11. he's anti-immigration

He's very xenophobic in general.

[Hippo_Tron]

14. No he's not, he's against ILLEGAL immigration

While I disagree with Dobbs completely on this issue, he has done nothing to make me believe that he is xenophobic. He's simply tired of American companies trying to save a buck by sending their jobs overseas or hireing illegal immigrants for cheaper.

[yorkdane]

13. My question is:

Are the driver's license tests in English? If they are in Spanish, that adds a whole other reason to object! WTF?!?!?!?! Think about it...

[alcuno]

17. I drove in Italy and I don't speak Italian. You can drive almost anywhere

with a US license. Granted, it began as a harrowing experience, but you don't really need to know the language in order to drive.

[TankLV]

19. And you weren't an illegal alien. You were a tourist. Big difference.

You had no intention of staying their past your permitted time.

Big difference.

I did the same in the UK and Europe. Had an international drivers license. Got it with a US Passport and a VISA. Applied for and received a workers permit for the year I was there.

These people - yes - "these people" - are breaking the law. They deserve no special rights.

For christsake - gays who are born in this country don't have equal rights, and we want to excuse illegal behavior?

Not this person!

The concern with this issue is the wrong focus.

We should look at why so many are here illegally - it is after all, an artifical construct. At one time, we let in millions without much limit at all.

The underlying "values" of bigotry, racism, and zenophobia are the root causes of this "problem" - as well as US policies that make living in their native lands so bad that even the thought of doing it "illegally" here is better.

Many things can be done - eliminating the artificial quotas on who can and can not come here in how many numbers would be a good one.

Guest worker cards would be another.

Improving the living conditions in other countries would be another.

Having a simple, easy way to apply for, be interviewed, and become a legal resident would be another.

There are many solutions to this "problem".

But rewarding illegal behavior is not one of them.

[alcuno]

21. You misunderstood. The poster implied that somehow having a

test in Spanish was a problem when it comes to driving. As if only English-speaking people are qualified to drive.

[MrSlayer]

22. Why should illegal aliens get driver's licenses?

They should be getting thrown out of the country. If you want to immigrate to this country that's fine and dandy but if you do not use the proper channels you should be deported. The reason they are called illegal aliens is because they are here ILLEGALLY. I don't see introducing this bill as courageous, it's insane that you would even have to make a law to curb what shouldn't be happening in the first place.

[solinvictus]

23. What the hell is wrong with that????

Illegals don't need to obtain a US driver's license, period. They should be immediately and actively deported to the country of origin. I'm sick and tired of illegals being romanticized in this forum. I have no issue with legal immigration, but illegals kill our domestic job markets. They do not need access to driver's licenses, healthcare, or any other essential service. Additionally, I'm for penalizing the hell out of their enablers who hire them as well.

[w4rma]

24. illegal. key word. (nt)

[flordehinojos]

26. IT IS SO EASY TO BLAME THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FOR THE WOES OF THIS COUNTRY

IT IS SO EASY TO PASS BLAME ON TO THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WHO WORK AND PAY TAXES (BECAUSE THEY WERE UP TO RECENTLY, ABLE TO GET SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS). THAT WAY IT IS REALLY EASY TO BY-PASS SOME OF THE MORE SERIOUS REASONS FOR OUR WOES... LIKE MILLIONAIRES NOT PAYING TAXES, MONEY LAUNDERING, OUTSOURCING JOBS AND OFF SHORING COMPANIES ... ILLEGAL/ILLICIT WARS, ENRON AND HALLIBURTON AND COMPANIES LIKE THEM ... but no, you guys... the woes of our country stand on the shoulders of the illegals--they are the ones to blame for causing us all our woes!

[solinvictus]

27. ILLEGALS ARE A BIG PART OF THE PICTURE!!!

When illegals are in a given job market, wages are quickly depressed further in some industries. For example, in Chattanooga, TN, it's well known that the construction market is dominated by illegal labor. Net result? Jobs that formerly paid over $10/hour starting wages are now leveled to about $7-8 with no benefits. I am consistent, though, because I want the companies punished as well. It should be a violation of the PATRIOT ACT to hire illegals, therefore, employers who do so should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

[flordehinojos]

29. Yes...they are the scapegoats... THE COMPANIES WHO HIRE THEM

SHOULD BEAR THE BRUNT OF THE BLAME AND RESPONSIBILITY but NO, they want to pay cheap labor, NO INSURANCE PROTECTION, and work them like slaves ... the PATRIOT ACT has nothing to do with the hire illegal immigrants--law established well before the PATRIOT ACT does... and, if anything, THE PATRIOT ACT should refrain from making it illegal to hire immigrants...ALL OF US ARE DESCENDANTS OF IMMIGRANTS, except for the natives born here, our AMERICAN INDIANS, and they were booted out of their lands and territories by our first wave of immigrants... what a supremacist way have we carved for ourselves from the beginnings of our history.

[SoCalDem]

32. Because Lou Dobbs is a Buchananite xenophobe

:(

He appeared to be moderate when he was talking about outsourcing, but his first true love is "immigrantion/illegals"..