Do Neocons WANT An Uneducated Population?

[K8-EEE]

RE the thread at LBN about this article in which college grads are having a harder time finding work now, it seems to me they are systematically trying to make higher education "not worth it." Too expensive and the white collar jobs leaving the country anyhow.

Don't all fascist regimes want to discourage critical thinking? We all know how simplistic the messeages are: "They want to kill us!" etc. I really think that for the long term, they want nice, docile sheeple, who will graze on any "unfiltered" propaganda they put out and be working so many jobs that they won't have the time or energy to notice their rights being stripped away.

It's happening already of course (bankruptcy & SS) but imagine what we are in for a generation from now if things dont start turning around!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-jobless11mar11,0,1675228.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[leftofthedial]

1. yup

they want an endless supply of drones and workers

[radfringe]

35. ignorant sheep

are easier to manipulate -- why do you think they sling around the word "elitist" when they are up against someone who is more educated and smarter?

the message being sent is "smart is bad", just take a look at the "reg'lar people" act that smirk-boy puts on

[LynzM]

2. In a word, Yes.

Critical, analytical thinking is counter-productive to controlling people through fear, hyped, extreme rhetoric, etc. Nuance and in-depth understanding of issues means less knee-jerk reactions and less acceptance of those types of reactions from the government, making it harder for them to promote an agenda like that.

[shraby]

3. Think about the extreme repressive regimes

i.e. Pol Pot (Cambodia). The first people they eliminate are the educated.

[K8-EEE]

5. Yes And The Villify "The Academic Elite"

"The Cultural Elite" etc....the Nazis did the same thing.

[Tux]

12. SO

Eventually they'll burn or ban books. God's Politics then religious books except the Bible, then kill educated people since they know what is going on.

[lostnfound]

4. Yes, of course.

More easily exploited.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. Essentially, yes.

Education, in the past, has been the great economic leveller. But they don't want economic levelling. They also don't really want critical thinking skills. Those who take things on faith are more easily manipulated.

If it all continues, the lid is gonna come off of this thing.

[Nay]

22. Yes, because education is an economic leveler (or it used to

be). Remember when a high school education got you fairly decent blue collar jobs? Well, the real elites hated that, so they started pushing college educations as the only way to have a future. They didn't do this out of the kindness of their hearts -- what they really wanted was to depress wages of those w/HS educations by devaluing that HS education. But, the unintended consequence was that a lot of people DID go to college and do well. What were the rich people to do now to stop these upstarts? These loathsome GI Bill guys and worthless castrating women?

First, they were happy to have yet another free thing for the masses (a good basic education, the HS ed) turned into a costly thing for the masses. Anyone who thinks that the average college degree today is the equivalent of a college degree 30 years ago is dreaming. The kids I see coming out of college today are less skilled than the average high school student of 30 years ago -- they can't write or spell, they can't do math, nothing. So, the masses are in hock for an education that used to be better, and free.

And, to top it all off, the magic of the marketplace says that the more there is of a commodity (like a person with a college degree) the less valuable it is. The masses, buying into the idea that a college degree is a ticket to the high life, forgets that that ticket only works if very few other people have the ticket. If everyone has the ticket, the ticket itself is worthless.

Now we are bumping up against the actual ceiling of human ability. You cannot expect every average human to acquire and utilize the actual knowledge needed to be, say, a good microbiologist or a good doctor or a good accountant, yet the elite repeats the idea that only such rarified jobs are worth paying a living wage.

They have essentially told most of the world it is too stupid to live. Thus, whatever they pay you, you should be grateful to be alive.

[serryjw]

63. Excellent!

did you learn that in HS or college? (only kidding!) So now a college degree is worth nothing so we need to have an MBA and go into debt even more BUT there are no jobs out there any more because too many people got their MBA"s so now what do we do? How many lawyers don't have a job?

[knight_of_the_star]

48. That's one reason they don't like Pagans

When you have a group of religions that say all people have equal access to the Gods it makes life difficult for those who say differently.

[w4rma]

7. Yes. Was there ever any doubt? These people are short-sighted control

freaks.

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. obviously they do, and they're fighting it on two fronts

1) The Whore Media - Unfortunately they have been very successful here. Controlling every TV Network, most major market radio (exception being Air America - and even some AAR affiliates are Fear Channel owned), and a huge slice of the print media.

Those of you who live near enough to the Canadian border to get the CBC through your antennas or cable, or even anyone who has vacationed in Canada the last few years can see the difference between CBC News and any network south of the border. Or anyone who catches the BBC News if it's run on your PBS affiliate, or C-SPAN. Or if you read The Guardian online and wonder why the FUCK there isn't one newspaper in America that can do real journalism anymore.

2) Education is the second front of their attack. Complaints of all colleges (except Bob Jones & Oral Roberts) being "liberally biased". The Ward Churchill thing. Even shades of Hitler last week when some fucking morons posted red stars all over one campus as signs of "commie" professors. It's clear these fascists will not give up until right wing neo con fascism is the ONLY thing taught in every school in this country.

They cannot accept or allow critical thinking. Hell, it's obvious that 50.8% of the voting population (give or take a few million for Diebold) doesn't have a fucking clue how to think already. It's sickening, and most of the sheep welcome it. :puke:

[Lerkfish]

28. even more insidious than that: vouchers trojan horse to increase

educational opportunities for the right while gutting resources for public education.

[earthside]

9. Absolutely!

More than the neocons, the religious right and the corporate elite want a 'dumbed-down' population. Folks who have not been taught critical thinking skills will not so vigorously question the government. People who lack higher education skills will accept whatever job they can find -- that keeps them too busy and impoverished to agitate against the government.

And is the Bush regime actively promoting a stupider populous?

It is called No Child Left Behind and standardized testing. This is 'high stakes' testing because the individual school's budget is dependent upon how well students perform on these tests.

Here in Colorado we have CSAP testing from third grade to tenth grade. Like most other states this has turned into a monstor. Little kids are being forced to endure almost twelve hours of intensive testing in math, reading, and writing. Almost a third of the school year is now dedicated to preparation, in otherwords "teaching to the test." This has so narrowed the curriculum for the whole school year that critical thinking education is almost nonexistent. Non-tested subjects like social studies, history, civics are being cut. So these kids will get out of public school ignorant of what they can do as citizens to control their own lives, community and govenment.

In Colorado you can opt your child out of taking the CSAP. A movement is building to kill this monstor. I encourage everyone around the nation to find out about this testing in their state and oppose and protest what is going on.

[sandnsea]

10. Disdain of education

People get mad at me when I say that's the biggest problem young males have, the disdain of education, a pride in NOT being one of those liberal college hippie elites. Those with post-graduate educations are more likely to vote Dem, of course Republicans don't want an educated population. But, they better not let wages fall too low for these uneducated males, the poor still vote Dem too.

And once again, obviously I'm not talking about the wonderful young males on DU who appreciate education for education's sake. I'm talking about all those aimless males who can't afford their child support payments or find a woman (or man) to marry because they can't find a decent paying job that enables them to contribute to the well-being of a family unit. Most men still find their value in the provider/protector role.

[Finder]

13. Not all Republicans are neocons and...

not all conservatives are republican. Neocons are in both parties. Party doesn't matter, power does. I do believe neocons and the religious right depend on a "dumbed down" citizenry to build support. Only the educated can identify and fight fascism and both groups mentioned are fascist in nature.

If you even mention fascism to a fundy or a neocon supporter they refuse to listen. I have even argued with some that believe fascism and communism is the same thing.

[K8-EEE]

18. Bill O'Reilly Called The ACLU "Fascist!"

How can a civil rights group that goes up against the powers that be, be "fascist?" That makes no sense!

[sandnsea]

23. They've always been around

Imperialism in the Republican Party is new. A theocratic, unrestrained capitalist philosophy is not new, it's the foundation of the Republican Party and has been for a very long time now. Defeating the neocons will do nothing to stop the Bircher types that will still be there.

[Finder]

29. Birchers meaning JBS?

Puritan types move in and out of parties as they deem necessary. They are not the original core of the Republican Party.

[sandnsea]

30. No, Lincoln is

But the Republican Party left him almost immediately. Bircher types have been the core of the Republican Party for at least as far back as FDR, many anti-internationalist Christian types fought Wilson as well.

[Finder]

38. They left him?

I disagree with that statement but I do agree the Bircher types have always been around. During the Civil War they argued that slavery was biblical and they were a power in the Democrat Party. Go back to the Democrat-Republican Party (Jefferson's Party)to see the zig zags by the fundies. They try to establish themselves in whatever party will take them and pander to them. Education is a threat to their biblical worldview.

[sandnsea]

39. That's the purpose of the cartoon

Southern Democrats were the fundies of today, the southern Christian has always been a different breed than the majority of the rest of the Christians in this country. The Republican Party of Lincoln was a mixture of populists, abolitionists, anti-railroad, etc. It has no resemblance to the Republican Party of today. After the Civil War, the Whig types weaseled their way back into control. Until the Civil Rights Act, the southern democrats had no reason to abandon the Democrats. It's certainly more complicated than that, but the WASP American has never been a Democrat. The WASP American has been at the core of the Republian Party for a long time.

[Finder]

45. Never anti-railroad...

The original Republican platform and those that followed were all pro railroad.

As far as WASPs...The Republican party was the first party to have a mormon senator. WASPs fought both parties to keep them out of office.

[sandnsea]

47. Free Soilers

I would argue they became the Populists and were against the railroad magnets, anti-railroad would be too extreme and perhaps a bit to early for the orignal free soilers.

I'm not quite sure what the first mormon senator has to do with anything. But I can sure see where a mormon wouldn't get involved with the KKK Democrats in the 20's or 30's.

[Finder]

55. The fight against education began in the 1930s.

The "New Right" as they were called. Big business and anti-communism groups formed and began in earnest to eradicate any social program or civil rights legistlation using fear. The American Liberty League, as you may have read about, had even tried to get General Smedley Butler to lead a coup against FDR.


I know it seems like our discussion is digressing all over the place but it is all related and important historically to trace the evolution of the party/parties and the agendas.

[sandnsea]

57. Yes, it's important

It's important to know that Democrats had alot of KKK and that those states have swung to the Republicans since. It's important to know that Lincoln's Republican Party is not the Republican Party of today. That Bryant's Populism pretty much saved the Democratic Party. That it is true, most people were religious in some form historically, it's just the brand of religion, like today. Democrats courted the Catholics because Republicans didn't want them. Public education arose, in many places, because of the success of Catholic school. That there has always been a group of Progressive Republicans, like Jeanette Rankin who voted against both wars. But that many people were Republicans because they were in no way going to be associated with traitorous slaveholding confederates. So it does get fuzzy and complicated. In a way though, if you look at Presidential election maps, the country stays consistent, what some perceive as party values just changes.

[Selteri]

21. Old saying fits best

Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

So it's easier to repeat it when people don't know and can't regocnize simple historical patterns that would be recognized quickly by a truly educated and intellectually curious populace... the kind we don't have right now.

[Patiod]

11. Look what happened last time, with the GI bill

Tore down a fairly big wall between the elite and everyone else.

Millions of men from poor families, men who NEVER could have afforded college, no only got educations, but were able to work their way into positions far above their "station" in life. A lot of my dad's friends "should" have been cops, firemen, roadbuilders, or factory workers, but the GI bill gave them 4-year college educations, and the ticket they needed to get into management(they had the drive and the raw intelligence for college, but not the money). They ended up as sales managers, division presidents and even CEOs.

I'm fairly sure it's a program that was fought by Republicans at the time, one more "handout", but one that changed the country profoundly.

Maybe someone who know more about it can set me straight, but are our service people in Iraq getting totally free 4-year educations when they come home?

[AP]

14. Yes. Less you know, the less it costs to buy your labor.

[Gman]

15. It goes along with demonizing intellectuals

which is in the facist playbook.

[Clarkie1]

16. Absolutely.

As Clinton put it bluntly, when people think (and are educated), we win.

[LdyGuique]

17. I disagree with all of you

I don't believe NeoCons think a whole lot about the topic nor have much interest in it. Their concerns lie elsewhere.

The reality is that "the people have spoken," as it were by not valueing education. For those who value education, it's inexplicable that many don't; however, as the decades roll on by and more and more methods and materials are made available, the reality is that the vast majority of people really don't value education or they would seek it.

Take a look on DU. Supposedly, this is a group of people who value education. However, how many times do you see a topic question that could be easily answered by a quick Google search or Google News read? It would require less than a minute to answer a basic question, such as "Who is Brian Nichols," or "Who is Eason Jordan?" and on and on. Or, a link is supplied to the article, but many fail to click on it to read the entire article -- they simply ask, "Who said this?" or somesuch.

Education is a mindset, a curiosity paradigm. It requires some effort on the part of the individual. True, at least the question is being asked here in DU, but even though we're all online, many are not taking the simplist steps for finding out basic information. Multiply this by all of those people who don't care enough to even be online or, if online, who don't participate in any interactive information exchange, such as news sites, boards, blogs, etc.

I'll be 62 later on this month, and during all of my time in the world, I've heard the repeated complaint, "it's boring." Our educational system is in shambles because the people really aren't interested for the most part. We've raised multiple generations of people who don't want to be in school and if there don't want to learn much of anything -- they pass this mindset onto their children.

Don't blame the NeoCons or even the educational system itself -- the material is there for anyone with a modicum of curiosity and willingness to set aside selfish personal interests. It is not part of our social culture to really emphasize education, whether it's for jobs, personal enlightenment, being an informed voter, etc.

Even back in the 50s, I was taking a stack of books out of the library weekly and frequently read a book a day during the summer. None of my friends did the same. It was a hunger unique to me. I could hardly wait to leave the 8th grade so I could use the "adult" section and I never saw any of my classmates in the same stacks. I discussed books with my parents and grandparents, but rarely ever found another age-mate to share with.

It's time to stop blaming others for educational deficits in the vast majority of people.

[mikelewis]

20. Absolutely correct - I agree wholeheartedly

The neocons are a sack of dicks, to be sure but they are not responsible for little Johnie playing PS2 all night long instead of doing his homework. It basically boils down to, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." The question a lot of Republicans are asking is why do we keep leading these horses to water if they're not going to drink.

I live in Cleveland and I can tell you, I would never send my child to a public school. They're too dangerous and they offer very little educational benefit. Private school is expensive and usually more than I can afford but what other options exist?

But the Republican leadership in my state is making the system worse for my city. Our education system is a complete failure for our average citizens. Our teachers have been castrated to the point that the children run the discipline in the schools. They are under-paid and overworked. The schools have become a recruiting ground for gangs and drugs. The Republicans refuse to fund the city schools because we vote democrat here. They're hoping to "starve the beast" and force us to start voting thier people in. We've known this for some time now but we can't do anything about it.

So, yes, you're right that it is mostly our fault but it isn't helping the situation much when you have people in power using the schools as a means to manipulate the people of a city. I will never forgive them for this and will never forget it either. I wouldn't vote Republican if Jesus was the head of the RNC. Fuck em.


edited for speeling

[primavera]

53. What about leading the horse away from water?

Sure, the horse has to drink, but if you're strewing the path to water with countless distractions making it virtually impossible for the horse to find the water, do you have no responsibility if the horse dies of thirst?

I can't speak for neocons, but I do believe that big business has a strong vested interest in a future work force which does not engage in critical thinking, which values blind team spirit over individual rights, and if you look at the kinds of community "enrichment" activities they engage in, they always seem to be about promoting local little league baseball teams; they never seem to want to donate textbooks or educational materials. A coincidence? Maybe, but it sure is a convenient one which serves their interests well, isn't it?

[sandnsea]

24. Maybe if you were 82

I don't know, but I see a difference in the respect for education in my 75+ uncles than younger generations. Most of them didn't finish school, but they didn't pass on the disdain for education to their children. Although my group of cousins couldn't afford college, most of our kids are in college.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if I hadn't been shocked by one simple statement made by McConnell. In debating the logging bill, he made a remark to the affect that he wasn't about to listen to a bunch of uppity college kids who didn't know a thing about working for a living and neither were his constituents. When that kind of talk comes from party leadership IN Congress, I have to wonder what the hell they're saying when they go home. I have never in my life heard a Democrat talk that way, not ever. So yes, I believe the Republican Party is responsible for this disdain of education because if they didn't slander educated liberals, half their political platform would be wiped away.

[Hoping4Change]

25. Great post .

Historian Richard Hofstadter wrote Anti-Intellectualism in American which analyzes Americans lack of regard and even hostility toward education. If you haven't read it already, I think you'd really find his work fascinating. BTW this book won the Pulitzer for History.

[serryjw]

64. We need to separate education from willingness to learn

I have no college degree but would put my intellect against any MBA's. The man in my supermarket knows more about what is happening and the history of it than 99% of MBA's. I agree with the prior poster. You have to want to learn, value reading and desire to develop a critical eye. 'We' have bought into the idea that all the distractions that industry wants to sell us is more important than just opening up a book and we pass this on to the next generation.

I laughed at the prior poster whom made the statements about why does someone post a silly question when they can just do a google search.....I wish I had an answer except that DU has become a haven of 'group think'. It's a social hour that has little intellectual value to many. Many posters are more interested in HOW to hit 1000 posts than what their posts say??
Every time I spent an hour researching subject and post it, nobody answers my post. How many come on here just to post on the lounge?

[Hoping4Change]

67. I definitely agree that holding a degree is not an indication

of having a well-developed intellect. However I think you are a bit hard on those who frequent the lounge. Even though I don't spend much time there I think that its one one the things that makes DU special place. As for DU being a haven for group think, I really don't see that unless one considers a shared disgust with the shrub cabal an indication of group think.

Although it is easy to come to the conclusion that people aren't reading your posts because you aren't getting replies, I don't think that that would be the correct conclusion. Many times posts are interesting to read but don't seem to require a response. I think wording has to be such that it invites a response.

[KaliTracy]

36. In some ways you are right -- the type of education our children are

getting Kills their curiosity and spirit and drive. But WHO is pushing for the type of education that discourages children from exploring and learning through action? The Republicans. From The Business Round Table ( http://www.businessroundtable.org/index.aspx ) to Achieve, Inc. (http://www.achieve.org/ ) corporate people have been involved "shaping" the way that education is going.

This is deep and it's insidious. It takes on many forms -- from profiting from the very tests that they give children -- to using these tests as a "reason" to kick out entire staff and "take over" the school.

A few years I ran into a book by Susan Ohanian (www.susanohanian.org ) called "What Happened to Recess and Why Are Our Children Struggling in Kindergarten?" -- and while this is a series of essays, (so some of the people she talks about are the same), it was a validation to my "gut feelings" of something "not right" and a wake-up call...(I had quit teaching in 1998 because of Ohio's push for high-stakes tests for elementary students) I started doing more research again, in the little time that I have. Then I ran into a new edition of a book that was edited by two of my current favorite education writers Alfie Kohn (he's recently written books about standardized tests, among other things), and Patrick Shannon (he writes mainly about the politics of reading instruction). This book, a series of essays from various writers, is called:

"Education, Inc. Turning Learning into a Business" --

I urge people to read it... It covers all sorts of things, from "corporate sponsors" to having schools run by business people instead of educators (which is what the * administration is really aiming for....) to Reading Instruction politics.... which are a HUGE issue for me -- and one of the biggest reason I stepped down from teaching. (Even the debate on Phonics vs- other reading strategies is full of political agendas, which I won't go into here...but the authors I mention above, and many others have done so at great length.)

However, Imagine my Surprise (or actually, non-surprise) when I came across an essay called, "Reading Between the Lines" from Stephen Metcalf in the "Education, Inc." book (again, another "validation to my gut-feelings" moment). In it he states:


..."the bill has allotted $387 million to get states up to speed; the National Association of State Boards of Education estimates that properly funding the testing mandate could cost anywhere from $2.7 billion to $7 billion. The bottom line? "This promises to be a bonanza for the testing companies," says Monty Neill of FairTest ( http://www.fairtest.org/ ), a Boston-based nonprofit. 'Fifteen states now test in all the grades Bush wants. All the rest are going to have to increase the amount of testing they do.'

"....Both standardized testing and textbook publishing are dominated by the so-called Big Three -- McGraw-Hill, Houghton Mifflin, and Harcourt General -- all identified as "Bush stocks" by Wall Street analysts in the wake of the 2000 election...."

***

This essay includes much more, including the very Interesting and cross-generation connections of McGraw and the Bush families (three generations worth...). McGraw-Hill is the *major* player in the standardized test creation (including all of the peripherals (textbooks, workbooks, "practice tests" etc. that go with it...). He also mentions many of the bigwig corporation people involved in the push for more testing. To me, this seems like just another way to line certain pockets, and one that people just don't realize. *shaking head*


Susan Ohanian also has a new book out now called Why Is Corporate America Bashing Our Public Schools?: http://www.susanohanian.org/books/

[LdyGuique]

44. Oh, I agree that education as a whole has some serious problems,

but what I maintain goes even deeper into the core of the American psyche. It's a lack of interest in anything that isn't "fun." And, part of it falls squarely onto the technologies of entertainment that have developed during and since my own childhood of the 50s. I perceived that television was harmful a long time ago, not so much due to content, as due to easiness. It develops slothful mental agility.

But, the roots were already firmly entrenched. I grew up in Northern California in a county seat town of 5,000 people, which bussed in kids from outside of town, and the high school population was nearly 3,000 (which caused two additional high schools to be built before I'd finished high school). At no point during my elementary years did class size drop below 36 kids/class and frequently swelled to 40. However, phonics was still taught and most were able to read, except for a couple of notable students -- at this point, I'm not sure it wasn't dyslexia, but there were other issues, too.

I hung with the university/college prep kids -- good students. But, even then social activities were encroaching on how free time was used. The lack of interest in the bigger world was already well in place, and the unwillingness to "stand out" when it came to handraising and such.

When we moved right after my sophomore year to Sacramento, Sacto Sr High had 3,600 students for a 3-year program, divided by "x, y, z" categories of achievement. The X students were the college-track students and were notably competitive over grades and such, but still, I found few who admitted to enjoying reading as a pasttime.

While my family social culture was strongly pro-education and we had numerous bookshelves filled to overflowing, I don't remember any of my friends have a similar condition. Now, I'm not saying that I was unique, as I hardly knew everyone, but the push for reading on one's own time just wasn't common.

Up until I was laid off a year ago due to jobs moving overseas, I worked in tech support for an ISP -- I spent my days talking to customers who were struggling with computer/internet issues. During that time, I constantly pushed people to buy manuals or to use "help," and I can only remember a few notable occasions where the customer admitted to owning at least one manual or using software help. The willingness to believe that everything should be "self-apparent" is very strong in our national culture.

It's easy to blame this incuriousity to a range of issues, but it must be recognized that it's still very prevalent.

[Lorien]

40. What part of the country were you raised in?

I grew up in the '70s in a Midwest college town which was, at the time, very liberal. I went to a progressive private school where all the children ADORED books; I remember studying Hamlet at age ten with my classmates and chatting about it with as much enthusiasm as kids these days have for video games. I went to an alternative high school as well; there were no sports, but we did have "Jeopardy" style competition every semester. I guess what I'm saying is that there can be large cultural differences within areas of the country, some stress a good education as a necessity, others ridicule it. Our media, unfortunately, celebrates intellectual laziness and the underachiever, and that certainly has an effect. There was recently an article posted in LBN about fewer HS graduates applying for college. Dozens of DUers wrote "College is for suckers"! and similar sentiments. Sad but not too surprising.

Let's not forget; it was G.H.W. Bush who said that the easiest way to deal with the people was to "keep them fat, dumb, and happy" (in other words; give them bread and circuses). I do believe that at this point the government endorses the idea of promoting a culture best suited for an entertained but incurious population. Such a populace is both docile and obedient.

[K8-EEE]

42. I Agree -- Austin, San Francisco, LA, NYC

Those (liberal) places are the ones with the most bookstores (and indie cinema, music & cultural venues etc) per capita.

GOP Uh-murka ain't interested in any of that fancy learnin'.

[Lorien]

49. Yep; poverty, crime, unemployment

all are higher in the redder areas of the country, no doubt in part due to the lack of emphasis on the importance of a good education.

[MountainLaurel]

52. Bread and circuses

That point is dead-on. I read a book about the history of Appalachia, focusing on the coal fields of VA, KY, and WV, in which the author talks about a strategy used by the coal companies. Because they ruled over all hiring for the public school system (as well as government positions, etc.), they would hire relatives and political friends who had no experience or knowledge about teaching. They didn't want students to develop those critical thinking skills that would lead to them realizing how patently fucked up the system was. However, they would make sure that each school had a state-of-the-art sports facility and sports team. It gave the community something to rally around, and an attention-getter that would make the residents forget about the fact that they were wage-slaves their entire lives.

In many areas of the country, this pattern continues. A school library will still have books referring to the "hope that someday man will walk on the moon" while the athletics program has a weightroom that would be the envy of many commercial gyms.

[Lorien]

56. That plan seems to be in effect outside of school systems as

well. In my city, as in many others, the library systems are crumbling and stocked only with badly out of date non-fiction titles, and dozens of copies of fiction bestsellers. The local sports team owners are constantly demanding bigger and better arenas ("we'll take our team elsewhere" is often threatened), and the government sells the arenas to the public as a way for the city to increase revenue and tourism. Studies have shown that a good zoo or aquarium, along with arts and music festivals, do far more for local economies than sports teams. However, the latter serve the educated and/ or serve to educate, and I suspect that some local governments are uncomfortable with the idea of attracting that type of "element" (intellectuals) to their cities.

[Selteri]

19. YES

I've heard multiple neocons in a 'club' my family belongs to speaking about how the education system needs to start 'culling' the people who shouldn't be there out and stop wasting time on trying to educate 'lower' people.

Sound familiar, mein heir?

[d_b]

26. Reminds me of something I read

by Howard Zinn. Back in the 30's a few members of congress wanted to bring mobile libraries to the rural communities in the midwest. Well, a Republican from Illinois was opposed to it because: "If we educate them, they will turn into communists."

[ZootSuitGringo]

27. The Neocons HAVE an uneducated American Populace,

They only want and need to keep it that way.

When it comes to the majority of the American masses being dumb lemings; Mission Accomplished.

[Zhade]

31. Of course! Ignorant people make the best slaves.

NT!

[KaliTracy]

32. I believe that's part of the push for "high stakes tests" -- drill down to

the smallest parts -- don't think critically about what is being taught.

Critical Thinking and Analysis are not skills that are taught in schools today (though lessons "speak" to them, it is not routinely practiced) because everyone is so damn worried about the "tests." I feel this is a part of the hidden agenda behind "the tests" -- which do not give way to independent thought, but just ask for regurgitation of useless material. And, I believe, this is why so many people did not question the "call to war" -- but accepted it because someone else did the thinking for them. (I realize there are many strong classrooms and schools out there who do teach students to be an active part of a democracy, and to always question, but this is the minority, not the majority.)

[K8-EEE]

34. "Teach The Test" Thing = "Here's The Right Answer"

The "Shut Up And Sing" thing doesn't apply just to singers, they want everyone to just shut up and spit out what we input. Don't think about it too much or argue cuz that's un-uh-murkin.

[KaliTracy]

37. yep, and for more background on that -- see post #36.... n/t

[Mz Pip]

33. They count on it.

THen they can fill the heads of the ignorant with their spin.

An educated an involved population would be a threat to these folks. Their power depends on people not paying attention.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[meow2u3]

41. Do roaches want darkness?

Do cats want mice?

Do dogs want fire hydrants?

[leesa]

43. Without a doubt. How could they have pulled this off without 61,000,000

completely uninformed drones? Fascists MUST have ignorance to survive.

[solinvictus]

46. Yes..

The current regime is much like Orwell's Oceania from "1984": they want the average person to have enough knowledge to act as a mindless cog in the machine while embracing an autonomic patriotism that leads to unwavering obeisance to the state.

[MountainLaurel]

50. Hell yes

To all of your questions. In a Corporate, Theocratic America, critical thinking skills are simply verboten.

[Contrary1]

51. They are

too uneducated themselves to know what they really want.
And too stupid to figure out what is happening.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

54. Orwell was right

Thinking, reading, critical thinking are dangerous to the ruling imperial order and must be stopped. Best to keep the masses of the proles uneducated, uninformed, and distracted with bread and circuses so they won't notice the rot amidst those who have taken the reins of leadership and are so desperate for more cannon fodder in their wars against Syria and Iran.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. No.

They want an uneducated, fearful population, kept distracted by shiny flashing objects, like the whirring of meaningless celebrity worship and show trials... sedated with shitty over-processed food, high fructose corn syrup and hydrogentated oils... (more brain damage from percholrate and mercury pollution, along with an ever expanding menu of industrial pollutants doesn't hurt, either)...preferably working crap jobs for longer hours for less and less money, in constant terror of job loss.

THAT'S what they want.

[EVDebs]

59. Well yes, If you're not smart enough to fight outsourcing your job

you're probably unaware of the Dept of Labor provisions that could have the company in hot water. The 'attestations' in the Form 9035 ETA form for H1B visas that immigrant visa-holders get into the country on are a joke.

They aren't supposed to be displacing US workers, but look at what's been happening for the past dozen years. Fraud in the system and the DOL's inability to investigate or levy fines...just part of the game globalizing multinational corporations have been playing, in order to generate tax savings and export jobs overseas even with immigrants coming INTO the US on H1Bs and L1 visas !

And the media doesn't even cover this. Look at

http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/foreign/preh1bform.asp

""A number of statutory requirements and authorities under the INA, as amended by the American Competitiveness and Workforce Improvement Act of 1998, sunset on October 1, 2003. The specific program changes that occurred included:
A reduction in the cap on the number of available H-1B visas from 195,000 to 65,000 per fiscal year;
The elimination of the Recruitment and Hiring and the Displacement and Secondary Displacement attestations that previously applied to "H-1B dependent" employers and to employers found to have committed a willful violation or misrepresentation of a material fact on the application;
The elimination of authority granted to DOL to investigate H-1B employers if they have "specific, credible evidence" that a violation has occurred; and
The elimination of the $1,000 fee that is required to be paid by employers of H-1B nonimmigrants to support low-income scholarships and job training programs for workers.
The recruitment and displacement attestations noted above, and the instructions relating to them, were previously outlined in Subsections 1 and 2 of Section F. Due to the possibility that these attestations may be reenacted by the Congress, the Department has temporarily blanked out these portions of the application and instructions.

The previous edition of this application form, displaying an OMB Expiration Date in the upper-right-hand corner of 31 AUG 2003, should no longer be submitted by employers seeking to hire H-1B nonimmigrants""

So, they doctor the forms, eliminate the attestations and fines, and eliminate the DOL's ability to even investigate fraud in the department's own visa program. US workers aren't allowed to protect their own jobs from being outsourced to immigrants BROUGHT INTO THE US ! THAT'S HOW THE GOVERNMENT AND THE CORPs WANT IT.

[NVMojo]

60. the path was laid awhile ago for this ...

you are watching the end of the plan unfold.

Our young people are merely being raised to be used in war and occupation of other nations.

[Laurab]

61. Hell yes - someone has to vote for them

besides the very rich.

[sakabatou]

62. They want it so that they can be the "elite" class

[ComerPerro]

65. I think so

I think that's the motivation behind "No Child Left Behind".

Imagine: You impose unrealistic standards on public schools and then you slash some of their funding to ensure that it they won't be able to meet them. Then you take away all of their funding.

Its the end of public education. The only option is private schools.

[L.A.dweller]

66. Top it off with some MAJOR cuts in funding

to social services across the nation. The lingering results are a desperate living class. To afraid and hopeless to do anything about their situation. They don't vote they can't care.