CNN(!) Fact Checks Snake Oil George's SS Claims.

[reprehensor]

CNN Fact Check: Bush on Social Security

CNN Fact Check: The president implies that a "personal" or private retirement account will "get a better rate of return" than the current Social Security system, but he doesn't clarify the risk of getting a lower return or even losing money on the investments.

Historically, returns from private investments have outpaced those of Social Security, but there is no guarantee that a worker will always receive a higher return with a private retirement account than under the current system.

The administration generally estimates that the Social Security system generates about a 3 percent return.

A worker with a private savings account whose investments exceed a 3 percent return would be better off under the Bush plan. But a worker who experienced returns of less than 3 percent would have less retirement money than he or she would under the current system.

More Good Stuff at link!

[izzie]

1. Question?

If to be safe you will put your money in bonds well that is what SS is in. Does the President want the money to be put in stuff that is not safe? My saving is in bonds, and it pays very bad but the money is safe.

[reprehensor]

4. My understanding is that...

the plan is to allow people to invest in the 'stock market' not the bond market.

And to let the SS system dwindle and die.

Riskier, and crappier, all the way around.

[subterranean]

2. Typical Bush lies

"If we don't act, we're looking at about an $11 trillion hole for the American taxpayer coming up. This is a big liability not for me or baby boomers ... but if you're a young worker, you've got a problem."

He says the $11 trillion deficit is "coming up," as if it'll be happening next month (so we must act now!), when in reality it will be sometime in the 22nd century, assuming no changes are ever made. Even young workers will be dead by then.

This is Bush's typical way of lying: carefully wording his claims so that they are technically not false, but are deliberately misleading.

[flpoljunkie]

3. The $11 trillion SS hole grifter Dubya touts is over the "infinite" future

The $11 trillion figure that President Bush uses also comes from the annual Social Security Trustees report, but that figure estimates the shortfall over the "infinite" future.

Accountants sometimes make financial projections over what's called an "infinite horizon" to gauge the financial effect of a program over the very long term. The trustees' report essentially says the program faces an $11 trillion deficit over the infinite future, but that the shortfall in 75 years will be significantly less than that--<$3.7 trillion.>

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/04/social.security.factcheck/index.html

[tarheel_voter]

5. repeat the frame "Republicans lie to get what they want"

All the speeches from the GOP can be debunked with this frame. The facts we present in our counterarguments on Iraq, Social Secutity, etc, do a nice job of supporting this frame.

The frame sounds good and is believable. Pug statements like "look how good the economy is" look misleading when you remind folks of stagnant wages and outsourced jobs. Once again, Pugs lie to get what they want.