The DLC is pro choice

[dsc]

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=128&subid=174&contentid=1926

We believe that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

Also most Pro life Democrats come from the Midwest which isn't fertile territory for the DLC. Most pro life Dems are like Reid, Kucinich, and Bonior who are economic liberals which is directly against the DLC's playbook.

So go ahead and vote against Casey if you must but don't call him a DLCer. He just plain isn't. After all the DLC believes in pro choice, they say so themselves.

[sasquatch]

1. Fuck the DLC

Bunch of Repug ass kissers that run around in my party and make it hard for ordinary Americans to get by in life.

[FightinNewDem]

13. What a brilliant response!

Your witty and articulate statement and your intelligent use of factual data are truly a credit to your point of view.

[xray s]

2. where does someone like this fit in

Believes a woman should be able to have an abortion, but only up to the point the fetus can be discerned to have brain wave activity, at which point it arguably has human awareness (somewhere around 10 weeks of development)

The only exceptions would be the right for a woman to abort a fetus at any time if it is a physical threat to her health, based on the right of self defense, or if the fetus has a severe deformity which would result in death soon after birth (like having the spinal cord develop outside the body, undeveloped brain etc).

These positions would not be based on religious beliefs, but on the human rights of the fetus once it exhibits brain wave activity.

How would you classify someone with these beliefs. Pro Life? Pro Choice?

It seems to me they don't fit in either camp. And I would imagine there are quite a few people in this catagory.

[dsc]

3. That is pretty close to mine

and would put you in the pro life camp pretty much. Admittedly you wouldn't be a 100% but you would be pretty high.

[xray s]

4. thats interesting

It would seem to me that what I described would be more of a a Pro Choice position, because probably 85% of abortions are performed before the 10th week, and late term abortions are extremely rare.

It seems to me the Pro Life camp opposes all abortions. I am pretty sure most of them would agree, at least those basing their position on religious beliefs.

I think we have let the Right define the Pro Choice position as the extreme one, when theirs is the position that's extreme.

[dsc]

5. I would dispute the 85% figure

and also both sides are extreme. Let us not forget that we have absolutists on the pro choice side as well. Landreau was targetted for defeat for not voting against a ban on partial birth abortion.

[flpoljunkie]

12. Planned Parenthood: # of abortions after 1st trimester relatively small

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/abortion/fact-abortion-first-trimestert.xml

The Number of Abortions after the First Trimester Is Relatively Small

Between 1996 and 2000, the number of abortions in the United States fell from 1.36 million to 1.31 million (Finer & Henshaw, 2003). The CDC estimates that 58 percent of legal abortions occur within the first eight weeks of gestation, and 88 percent are performed within the first 12 weeks. Only 1.5 percent occur after 20 weeks (CDC, 2003).

Since the nationwide legalization of abortion in 1973, the proportion of abortions performed after the first trimester has decreased because of increased access to and knowledge about safe, legal abortion services (Gold, 2003).

[mdguss]

14. I think, once viable, abortion should be banned:

Except in cases when the life of the mother is endangered. It's a moral issue. They'll be many opinions on it.

The point is Casey is a good Democrat, and would be a good Senator. There has to be room for a broad spectrum of view points in the party. Is Harry Reid any less of a leader because he is pro-life? He's doing a great job, and it proves that being a Democrat is about more than one issue.

[flpoljunkie]

19. I prefer to leave abortion decision in the hands of a woman and her doctor

Despite what the Republicans say, there goal is the elimination of all abortions, period. They also want to keep the "morning after" pill from women and some want no birth control available to women at all.

The government cannot be in the business of forcing women to breed. This is the goal of many in the "pro-life" movement. What many do not understand is that the state's interest begins at the end of the first trimester. Abortion has never been an unfettered and unregulated right. Many women, particular in red states, have no access to abortion--no clincs and no doctors willing to perform abortions--which, in effect, denies them the right to have an abortion at any time.

[dsc]

29. That means I likely am right

10 weeks is halfway between 8 and 12. It would be a pretty odd function (admittedly not impossibly odd but pretty unlikely) that would go from 58 to 85 over the course of 8 to 10 and 85 to 88 over the course of 10 to 12. Not impossible but unlikely.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. What figures would you use? You say you dispute the 85%

figure, but you don't say why.

[mdguss]

17. I don't dispute the number, but 1.5% is too much for me:

I have an problem with abortion period. I support exemptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. After viability though, I only support an exemption for when the life of the mother is endangered.

Like I said, it's a moral issue. There's going to be different opinions on it--and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing on it. I just think late-term abortion is sickening.

[flpoljunkie]

20. Don't you think late-term abortion is very difficult for those women who

must have this procedure? It is not like the Republicans portray it--women are not having late term abortions "to fit into prom dresses."

[Malva Zebrina]

22. actually, I think it is an immoral decision

to shuffle women and their body around like chess pieces because of someone else's judgement and "moral" beliefs.

To try to deny women the right over control over their own body, the right to make decisions for themself, as any human being is entitled to, and the right not to be harrassed for her decision is immoral.

[loudsue]

28. BRAVO!!! Other people's "moral issues" stop at my nose, and MY "moral

issues" stop at OTHER PEOPLE'S noses!

MY moral issues say people who run the corporations that destroy the environment, people's life savings, and promote war should be executed.

So, how come MY moral issues don't get to affect/destroy the lives of these bastards?

Nobody who decides w/ their doctors that they should have an abortion is harming any living citizen. The corporate criminals are harming millions.

Abortion should not be ANYBODY's business except the one who is carrying the fetus. If someone doesn't believe in abortions, they SHOULDN'T HAVE ONE!

:kick:

[mdguss]

18. Landrieu voted for the ban:

If I remember right.

[dsc]

30. Yes and due to her having done so

She was targetted by Emily's list.

[mdguss]

36. And if they had let her be on the ticket, Kerry would've won:

Sen. Landrieu would've been great with the security Moms...of all the women in our party, I think she's the one most capable of winning the presidency, but due to pro-choice fundamentalists, she'd never make it out of a primary. And she's pro-choice too...she just voted for the partial birth abortion ban.

[sandnsea]

32. The way it already is

88% of abortions already occur before 12 weeks. 99% occur before 20 weeks. Late term abortions are already done only when the mother's health or life is in jeopardy, or there is some serious medical problem with the fetus where it would die anyway. That's why this is all a made up issue. Abortions are already happening within the confines of most people's thinking. Only 15-20% believe abortion should always be illegal and they are creating the hysteria over abortion problems that don't even exist.

[mdguss]

6. This is right; I wish people would take the time to read before attacking

The DLC is pro-choice, not all of its members are however (I'm a member and pro-life). They are relatively welcoming of pro-life Democrats, and they occassionally talk about how the party can reach out to us.

Rendell is a DLC Democrat; Casey is more of an AFL-CIO Democrat.

[LTRS]

7. The DLC has become synonymous with DINO

It's just another way of identifying dems who are determined to screw over their own party by siding more with the repug agenda than their own party's. Casey certainly fits the bill there.

[mdguss]

9. I've had enough of this: Go to http://www.bobcaseyforpa.com

And read his statement announcing his candidacy. Tell me how a pro-social secruity, pro-raising the minimum wage, fair trade, pro-education, pro-envrionment, pro-senior, pro-expanding health care coverage guy is a DINO? Read the statement at http://www.bobcaseyforpa.com

I edited the rest edited out because it was too angry in tone. By I urge people not to do Rick Santorum's work (attacking Bob Casey) for him.

[Crowdance]

23. He's not going to write his own obituary on his own web site

Of COURSE he's not going to talk about he ways in which he's a DINO. That'll wait until the general election.

It's OUR job to publicize his opposition to choice now, so that he can be stopped, and a moral candidate who respects human rights can be pushed forward.

[FightinNewDem]

15. Only among the clueless

The only people who seem to buy into the DLC=GOP lite meme are those who have not taken the time to learn about the DLC's actual agenda.

[Toots]

21. Would you care to expound upon their "agenda" a bit for us?

I am curious, what exactly is their "Agenda" and how does it differ from the Democratic Agenda?

[dolstein]

26. Would you care to visit the DLC web site?

The DLC isn't a shadow organization. They've made a public declaration of their principles. It's readily available for anyone to see.

Their web site is www.ndol.org. Perhaps instead of relying on left-wing bloggers with ulterior motives to tell you what the DLC stands for, you could spend some time actually reading some of the documents and articles on the DLC web site. Seriously, what are you afraid of? That you might actually AGREE with some of the things the DLC is saying?

[Toots]

35. Good site to visit and you are correct I agree with some of what they say

However here are a few quips from articles posted on that site.

This quote is from an article saying Bush* is not doing enough for faith based initiatives

“Democrats who support an active partnership between government and the civic center -- including faith-based organizations -- need to speak up, and provide the leadership in breaking the impasse on this issue that has been so consistently lacking from the White House”

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=253180

This from an article that wants us to be more vigorous in our military efforts overseas.

“While some complain that the Bush administration has been too radical in recasting America's national security strategy, we believe it has not been ambitious or imaginative enough. We need to do more, and do it smarter and better to protect our people and help shape a safer, freer world.

Progressive internationalism occupies the vital center between the neo-imperial right and the non-interventionist left, between a view that assumes that our might always makes us right and one that assumes that because America is strong it must be wrong.

Too many on the left seem incapable of taking America's side in international disputes, reflexively oppose the use of force, and begrudge the resources required to keep our military strong. Viewing multilateralism as an end in itself, they lose sight of goals, such as fighting terrorism or ending gross human rights abuses, which sometimes require us to act -- if need be outside a sometimes ineffectual United Nations. And too many adopt an anti-globalization posture that would not only erode our own prosperity but also consign billions of the world's neediest people to grinding poverty. However troubling the Bush record, the pacifist and protectionist left offers no credible alternative”

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=124&subid=158&contentid=252144


The United States should accelerate the transformation it has pioneered. With the world's most powerful industrial-age military, we have a buffer of capability that allows us the freedom to change. Even with an accelerated transformation, we could easily sustain and support enough old-era tactics to deal with any conceivable military challenge that might emerge during the transition. And, as the war in Iraq has shown, transformation brings more capability, not less. It might mean somewhat higher defense budgets in the near future to kick the defense establishment into a higher transformational gear

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=124&subid=159&contentid=252695

Apparently by this article New Democrats are for the same economic policies as the Republicans.

“Stiglitz rejects the New Democratic formula for growth: fiscal discipline, open markets, competition through globalization and deregulation, and investment in the knowledge-intensive building blocks of growth like research and training.”

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=107&subid=295&contentid=252484

[SOS]

25. This is what the leaders are saying:

"What activists like Dean call the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party is an aberration; defined principally by weakness abroad and and elitist interest-group liberalism at home"
Al From May 15 2003

"What leftist elites smugly imagine is a sophisticated view of their country's flaws strikes much of America as a false and malicious cartoon"
Will Marshall in Blueprint.

"Democrats should have no truck with the rancid anti-Americanism of the conspiracy-mongering left"
Will Marshall in Blueprint.

These quotes could have been penned by Kristol at the Weekly Standard and no-one would notice the difference.

[dolstein]

27. Of course, that's not all they're saying

You wouldn't be willing to tolerate that kind of selective quotation when it comes to your left-wing heros like Howard Dean. So why are you willing to tolerate it when it comes to the DLC? There's a lot more substance to the DLC, only you choose to ignore it.

[SOS]

33. Here's another selective quote

from the DLC on my "left-wing hero":

"The centrist Gov. Howard Dean is indicative of a blossoming New Democratic leadership".
DLC statement 1996.

The DLC shifts in the wind and is losing it's influence very rapidly. First they like Dean, then they hate him. First they want Social Security privatization, now they're against. First they embrace Clinton, then they tried to run someone against him in the '96 primaries. First they support Rice and Gonzales, now they oppose. For an organization with "leadership" in their name, they no longer lead anything. My "left-wing hero" is now DNC Chairman and will lead the Party coherently into the future.
The grassroots organizations are energizing the Party while the DLC implodes. Even founders like Elaine Kamarck and Simon Rosenberg are out the door.

[KaliTracy]

8. my fear is the extreme positions taking place against contraceptives

I personally am pro-choice, and feel that a decision for abortion should be between a woman and doctor.

But there are groups of pharmacists who have taken it upon themselves to deem certain birth control methods abortifacients and denying them to women with prescriptions (if they don't believe in it, they should give the script to someone else to fill). This is unacceptable to me, and I would hope, would be unacceptable to the people who are in positions of government.

http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-35-4130-1-P,00.html

[rman]

10. single issue politics?

-

[mdguss]

11. The attacks on Bob Casey certainly are:

Though I'm starting to think that Sanotrum might be behind some of them. He wants people not to donate to Casey because he knows--if we support Casey--he's toast.

[genius]

24. Reid is not pro-choice. Kucinich is pro-choice. Don't list them together.

Dennis had the strongest pro-choice stance of any of the presidential candidates in 2004. Reid has backed anti-choice justices is not pro-choice.

[dsc]

31. Kucinich used to be pro life

I should have used a different tense but my meaning was clear.

[wyldwolf]

34. Kucinich became pro-choice only out of politcal necessity

... ONLY to run a national Democratic campaign.

Only out of convenience.

At least Reid has the courage of his convictions though I don't share his position.