Christian Left needs to organize and counter the Christian Right

[cidliz2004]

The Christian Right doesn't own Christianity or morality. The Christian Left needs to come together and start countering the hypocrisy of the Bible Belt holier than thou. They use the Bible as a weapon, I feel that there is so much evil in that group that it really needs to be exposed for what it is.

Somehow we need to call them out on it....any ideas? Who would be our leaders to turn to?

[RealDems]

1. They've started this

Jim Wallis (long before he wrote "God's Politics" and became a staple on the cable show circuit) started the counter to the Christian Right. Problem is that after years of associating Christian values with people like Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, and (to some extent) Fred Phelps -- liberals are not quick to embrace our own version of Christian values. I hope it will happen as well, but it is certainly off to a slow start.

[cidliz2004]

4. Maybe bumper stickers saying "We are members of the Christian Left"

We first have to identify ourselves and come together as a group and start the conversation. We need to define how we relate our Christianity to the Liberals. We need to define how we feel the Christian Right is off track and not truly pursuing the Christian Beliefs.

How is that for a start?

[DinahMoeHum]

15. Try these stickers for size. . .

Link:
http://www.cafepress.com/turn_left

My favorite: "Do You Really Think Jesus Would Be A Republican?"



:bounce:

[GOPBasher]

16. I like them! Thanks!

[CarolNYC]

31. I have a Kerry/Edwards T shirt

made by an original Clarkie, I believe, which has printed on the back:

I AM a CHRISTIAN!
I AM a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN!
I DO have strong FAMILY VALUES!
And yes, I AM a DEMOCRAT!

I hate the way the religious right has taken over and twisted the Christian religion myself. It was one of the many things I loved about Wes Clark, that he openly spoke, loudly and often, about how Democrats live the values of Christian faith, not just mouth them, about how the Republicans and the right don't OWN religion and belief in God. Now I hope I don't get jumped on for mentioning Clark's name in this thread.....

[Patchuli]

2. I AGREE!!!!!

But where do we start???????

[cidliz2004]

5. Possibly on the DU, without being buried in Non Politcical.....

A group in the political section of the DU so that the visibility is high. We can then gather opinions, members and start taking back Christianity for the Liberals.

[angee_is_mad]

3. Great Idea

The Christian Left, I just love the ssound of that.

[NAO]

6. Jesus Condemns the Social Conservatives AND the Economic Conservatives

Start with the words of Jesus Christ, as recorded in the Gospels. It's very clear, beyond any doubt, that Jesus condemned the type of activity engaged in by the (so called) Christian Right.

He was very clear in his condemnation of both the culture war type activity and very clear in delivering a Christian mandate for welfare services.

The details of Christ's condemnation of both the social and economic policies of the right, including scripture references, and analysis posted here:

Jesus Condemns the Social Conservatives AND the Economic Conservatives
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1581902

See also Katherine Yurica's excellent article, "The Bloodguilty Churches: Why Bush’s Agenda Is Immoral and an Abomination to God"

Bloodguilty Churches
http://www.yuricareport.com/Religion/TheBloodGuiltyChurches.html

and also Katherine Yurica's "Congressional Handbook" which is a play by play analysis of Bush/GOP policies vs the Bible.

Congressional Handbook
http://www.yuricareport.com/Congress/CongressionalHandbook.pdf

and Jim Wallis "Sojurners" site is an excellent resource and is a place to go to find an in progress organization of the Christian Left.

Jim Wallis' Sojurners
http://www.sojo.net

The United Churches of Christ have put forth a progressive agenda, and are actively working for peace and justice

United Churches of Christ
http://www.ucc.org/index3.html

[cidliz2004]

10. Thank you so much for all of the information!

I will try to look at it and learn whatever I can from all of the links.

We could be proud to be Christians, but not be self righteous -we could proclaim our Liberal/Democratic/Left Chritianity and still be true Christians, just as long as we walk the path that Jesus walked.


I don't mean to imply that we could ever even see his footsteps, but I believe that Jesus gave us an example on how to live - and we could only try to follow, knowing full well that we will NEVER be able to - but being a Christian - that is the path that we choose and as we struggle to follow; our faith becomes stronger and stronger. Isn't that the real purpose? To grow in our faith in God's Plan? The more faith we have, the closer to God we are, and that faith has to continue to grow until the day that we leave this earth.

[NightTrain]

7. Absolutely!

I'm an Atheist myself, but I've a number of friends who consider themselves Christians. Thing is, not one of my friends has a thing in common with those hate-mongering faux Christians who get all the press attention. If *real* Christians could get their views out there, the world would be a far better place!

[kevsand]

8. Some cautionary notes

But first of all, let me say what a great idea I think this is! I've been trying to encourage progressives to organize a Christian base on moral grounds for twenty years.

Unfortunately, not being a churchgoer myself, I obviously never got very far with it. (Duh.)

There actually was a strong Christian left in the social movements of the sixties and early seventies, primarily focusing on civil rights, peace, and environmental issues. They played a major role in the victories of that era.

The world is very different now. I mention these cautions not to discourage you, but to point out things we need to resolve in order to succeed.

1) There are perhaps fewer Christians on the left than on the right. I have no empirical data for this, just my gut about population and geography.

2) The leadership of several of the largest denominations has already staked out a supposed moral high ground on the conservative side of things.

3) There are obviously other denominations that are more progressive in their world views, but in many denominations the battles are already being fought, and we are already losing.

4) The spokespeople for the Christian right, in spite of all their calming smiles, are preaching hate and intolerance and hypocrisy. That may be inherently an easier message to communicate. It is more forceful, and more dynamic. It has an edge. Peace and tolerance can be just as deeply moving, but perhaps they manifest in a more contemplative, less visceral way. It's not that they are weaker morally or philosophically, but rather that they may be less exciting somehow. The Christian left is just, you know, nicer than the Christian right. That may be a disadvantage, initially.

I don't think that any of these concerns are insurmountable. History shows that non-violent social change movements can overcome anything. I do think we need to think about ways to deal with some of the concerns I've mentioned here. I think it can work.

God knows the Christian right isn't gonna just go away. It's time for the Christian left to stand up.

[cidliz2004]

9. Thanks for the reply

Actually, when you are talking about Christians in numbers, well, if you believe that the Christian Rights are actually Christians at all.. That is the point, their ideology IS NOT, in fact they are against many Christian teachings. They are, however, organized and they carry a big stick.

I say that the real Christians walk a lonely path. We shouldn't be pointing fingers at everybody else and asking why are they doing this and why are they doing that, but we should look inward to improve our relationship with God. That is such a difficult journey to undertake, there are so many challenges.

The Democrats are afraid of saying who they are, because they are afraid of offending someone else. I say, I am a Christian and maybe you are not, but I do not know God's great plan, so while I work on myself, I hope that I could bring some good to you and to others through God.

Jesus wasn't a corporation, or a huge church, Jesus worked very independently and he went seeking to teach and spread the word. He did so modestly and with the faith of his father to lean on.

The Christian Right frightens me in that they are using the Bible as a weapon to beat down all who do not agree with them. Where in the Bible in the NT, do you ever find a time that Jesus did anything remotely resembling that? NOWHERE, yet thousands, if not millions follow that and there numbers are proof of the lack of Jesus and the Holy Spirit in their lives.

The Christian Left or the Christian Liberals maybe just identify themselves as such and have blue bumper stickers with that type of saying and somehow someway get a discussion going on how WE feel about our values and how the Democrats really speak to Christian Values. We all have to wrestle with many issues at hand. I feel that so many of the answers that we are seeking will be satisfied after we leave earth. I don't look for too many answers now because my challenge isn't to figure out what God is trying to do, but rather what I am to do to best serve God and to grow more faithful and more close to the way that Jesus lived his life.

Was Jesus monetarily rich? NO
Was Jesus a Jew? YES
Did Jesus condemn others and punish them NO he died on the cross and forgave them with the sacrifice of his own life
Did Jesus turn his back on the poor? NO
Did Jesus help those less fortunate then himself and expect us to do the same? YES

Maybe we could come up with these type of simple questions and answers to best illustrate how we believe. Maybe these could be our "talking points" and our "sayings"

I don't know, what do you think?

[JerseygirlCT]

11. I don't know if I agree that there are fewer on the left than the right

I think there are few on the right as well -- they're just very loud. I think there's a great middle out there, who could be persuaded to liberal causes if we cared enough to make our case to them. Christians who might be iffy or less than concerned with issues such as abortion rights and gay rights (both of which I AM terribly concerned with, btw), but who could be swayed by talk of poverty, hunger, social justice-type issues. They're probably already out there, volunteering at the soup kitchen one day a week, or visiting shut-ins. They understand action, but they've not attached a political meaning to that action. We don't have to get them to call themselves liberals, we only have to get them to listen and look at liberal candidates on the range of issues.

Or maybe I'm a crazy idealist.

[kevsand]

12. You may very well be a crazy idealist,

but that doesn't necessarily mean you aren't right! ;-)

I suspect that you could easily be correct about the so far apolitical nature of the majority of Christians. I certainly hope so, because it means there's fertile ground out there...

[Supersedeas]

19. True, it probably takes both empirical data and personal experience to

give your reservations any teeth.

[kevsand]

20. They're not reservations,

they're potential challenges which I'm confident can be overcome. And you're right, they may easily be unfounded.

I'm not claiming any special knowledge or insight here. Just trying to help.

And because I'm in such a good mood today, I'm going to pretend to ignore the distinctly un-Christian tone of your response. In the church I grew up in, we were taught to turn the other cheek. :-)

[Supersedeas]

29. Not to burst your good mood bubble, but the un-Christian tone may be your

own.

You posted:

<<Unfortunately, not being a churchgoer myself, I obviously
never got very far with it. (Duh.)

1) There are perhaps fewer Christians on the left than on the
right. I have no empirical data for this, just my gut about
population and geography>>

Thus, my comment about empirical data and personal experience.

In the church that I still attend, we are taught to give a sympathetic reading before casting stone...thus, avoiding the urge to turn the other cheek when the turn was unnecessary in the first place.

Ok, challenges...but definitely not reservations, lol.
Bygones.

[kevsand]

32. That's cool...

My apologies for reading more into it than was intended.

[Nimrod]

13. One suggestion

I think this is a great idea. I'm just as tired of good people getting tarred with the racist, sexist, elitist reconstructionism masquerading as Christianity as most Christians are.

I would only make one suggestion - if you can, avoid the "True Christian" proclamation. As accurate as it might be, it will be self-defeating. The Talibornagains have claimed that one for themselves, and if you try to evoke it, it's going to degenerate quickly to "No, I'M a True Christian." "No, I'M a True Christian." "No, I am!" "No, I am!"

If you're going to do this, you're going to have to deal with something we non-religious folks have been forced to deal with constantly. You're going to encounter lovely examples of humanity waving their bastardized versions of the Bible (complete with pages torn out), declaring it inarguable proof that they have sole ownership of the One True Word Of God and pronouncing themselves the victors before you've even had a chance to open your mouth.

Be ready for that.

[cidliz2004]

17. So true

The task in difficult if not impossible since true Christianity cannot be reduced to soundbites.

The Christian Right spends the majority of their time judging others and policing others, trying to define the world that all others live in. Christianity, I believe actually in a journey inward, trying to emulate the way that Jesus lived his life. There is a huge difference. Being a true Christian to me really says, look at yourself and make yourself into God's desired image AND that struggle is lifelong as well as counter organizing and grouping. For to group is possibly to exclude, which is also not up to us.

To me Christianity is inclusive, rather than exclusive.

Jesus didn't hang out with the "elders" in the temples and try to reform them and try to explain the message to them, no, he went to the common person, the poor, the criminal, the prostitute, the sick, the dead. Doesn't look too Republican to me.

[fishwax]

14. Fellowship on campus

The religious right has numerous organizations on the campus, handing out free meals and warm-blanket theology for students who are often away from home for the first time. The more insidious stuff starts later.

I've read some surveys that show that highschoolers and college students today are more inclined toward religion than their parents are. Many who are raised more or less secular wind up seeking something in the spiritual realm. The problem is that the religious right offers them all kinds of easy entre into their worldview--campus crusade for christ, etc.--while religious left organizations on campus are ... well ... i've never seen one. Film screenings and discussions might be a good idea, or round tables with local religious leaders of a liberal persusasion. Just thinking.

[manly]

18. the Christian Left

Is there really such a thing as the Christian Left? Sounds more like a stage direction to me.
"Where's that Christian guy?"
"Oh, Him? The Christian left."
And remember what good old Nietzsche (sp?) said. "The last Christian died on the cross."

[cidliz2004]

22. Jesus wasn't a Christian

[manly]

26. jeez

picky picky. anyway, it was nietzsche who said it. OF COURSE Jesus wasn't a Christian, he was Jewish. The Christians didn't show up for a century and a half after he died. But Nietzsche was using the philosophical idea of Jesus, not referring to him as an actual guy, or should that be Guy?

[Malva Zebrina]

21. My two cents

the religious extremists got to the position they are in with money and with lobby and with marketing techniques, leaving the more mainstream regulars with nothing.

I would suggest that if anhyone is serious about condemning other Christians that they use the same tools.

They have made it a cult, consisting of people who want to be in the current trendy thing--crystal cathedrals, huge, with all sorts of techniques that appeal to the greed of the people who have absolutely no humility, no ability to reflect, and no ability to consider the future, unless that is that there is no future because the end times is at hand.

If this is not done, imo, it will go on as a popular Christian cult that people will readily join in order to be indentified with the trendy and the in crowd.

If not, then the only thing to me seems to be to have to wait for some epiphany and imo, this will only take place after a catastrophe, such as economic collapse, humbling the people causing them to reevaluate their obssession with wealth, materialistic markers that identify them as part of the cult, and so forth. That may take more than a few years.

This current surge to fundamentalism is perfectly alligned with rampant and unfettered capitalism.

[cidliz2004]

24. Sadly, unless we figure it out - it may well have to be an epiphany

stemming from a catastrophic occurence to break the Christian Right and exposing it for what it is - Another form of Government, run with greed and for power.

[moggie12]

23. The Interfaith Alliance is a really great group

The guy who founded it was a Baptist minister who was a bigshot in the Southern Baptist Convention before the fundamentalists took it over -- that's why he left and formed this group, I think. They welcome all faiths, not just Christians. They are VERY anti-Bush from what I can see -- I joined a few weeks ago, when someone posted something on DU about them.

Link:
http://www.interfaithalliance.org/site/apps/nl/newsletter2.asp?c=8dJIIWMCE&b=258308

[Enquiringkitty]

28. I agree. The Christian Right makes it sound like all Christians agree with

them and anyone who doesn't are non-Christians or non-religious and amoral. More of their way of looking at life in a "black and white" way. It's a very simple way of looking at life but totally unfair and unrealistic. They will try for more power until the more moderate of their group find that they are caught in the cross hairs too because they flinched. I can't wait till they start eating their own ... and they will!

[CarolNYC]

30. Interfaith Aliiance

I immediately thought of this organization when I saw this thread. I joined also. Walter Cronkite is involved and I got two letters in the mail regarding the Interfaith Alliance from him.

Here's a link to his last message:
http://www.interfaithalliance.org/site/pp.asp?c=8dJIIWMCE&b=120695

[independentchristian]

25. You think they'll get media coverage if they do?

The Democrats can't even get adequate coverage, experts on Peak Oil can't get any coverage, and you think they will give it to Christians that don't support Bush when the media has fooled you all and Christians into believing that we all just love the guy?

They create the image that they want and you think they are going to allow people to use their services (getting media coverage) to counter that?

Question:

If there is a march by anti-Bush Christians, and no cameras film it and no journalists write about it, did it really happen?

Of course it "happened," but to no avail.

It's not about christian, atheist, agnostic, unconcerned one way or the other, it's about "fascism," and control of the media and the adoption of religious rhetoric in order to get sympathizers who overlook their policies because "what profit it a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul." In other words, "it doesn't matter if I'm poor as long as I'm doing God's will." That is the mindset that you face with a lot of Christians voting for Bush. The media has brainwashed them into believing that Bush is a servant of God, so they think they are doing God's will to vote for them.

After all, they are people too, and they fall for propoganda.

The bible says, "my people perish for lack of knowledge."

They are perishing because they are ignorant.

The thing that needs to be done is not to try to "out-Christian" the GOP or to hate on Christians and tear them down, etc. It is to expose, expose, expose, expose, expose everything that is anti-Christian about the GOP and conservative movement and Bush. It is not to say, "Vote Democratic, we are more like Jesus than the other guys," it's to say that no party is God's party, and start on equal footing. That's my opinion, and it's also the viewpoint of Jim Wallis' "God's Politics: Why the right gets it wrong and the left doesn't get it." No party is God's party. Things like Moon, Skull and Bones, etc. If it hurts Moonie Democrats and Bonesmen Democrats in the process, so be it.

But then again, the corporate owned media still won't cover you.

[ClassWarrior]

27. Agreed. I want to start attending their Forced Pregnancy rallies...

...with signs reading "How Many Unborn Children Have Bush's Bombs Killed?" and the like.

It's time to take LIFE back from these ghouls.

NGU.

[ColoradoDemocrat]

33. Hello Friends!!

Thanks for bringing this up! I'm such a political junkie, but a Christian too! Politics affects human lives so much, it's hard not to be involved.

Let me say a few things:
-We moved from the Methodist church, where I was baptised, feeling it was too evangelical for our tastes. But that's a key on the Right-Evangelism!! The COMMITMENT to changing other people's opinions and actions. I just can't get with that feeling. Do other Christian lefties? It's got the judmentalism and autocratic vibe that I associate with the right. How can the left outweigh evangelism? And judgmentalism? And autocracy/the desire to be TOLD WHAT TO DO? (Oops, snooty liberal elitist!)

-We're now at home with my great-grandparents church, THE QUAKERS! Don't overlook this WONDERFUL GROUP! We attend silent worship for 1 hour on Sunday-mostly this involves NOBODY TALKING!! So cool, I won't go on about it. Also, it's no guarantee, but my two young sons MAY be less likely to be drafted if they've been members of the Religious Society of Friends for years. Can I go on and on about the Quakers' role in overcoming slavery? Civil rights? Social justice? PEACE?!? Check if there's a meeting in your area!

-Lastly, wouldn't JESSE JACKSON (sorry I keep shouting) be a good example of the religious left? One of the greatest things I've experienced was hearing him speak at my school while I was attending Berkeley. Oh man is he good!

I'm very enthusiastic about this topic! How is the death penalty more Christian than abortion? Cutting Sect 8 rental assistance? There was a great article from some rightist guy about how far Bush strays from Jesus' teaching - getting a rich man into heaven being as likely as threading a camel thru the eye of a needle. It was classic, and on target!

[cidliz2004]

40. That is the beauty of it, The Christian Left ISN'T an INCLUSIVE group

As the Democrats are not supposed to be an INCLUSIVE Party, it is the big tent party. Your church affiliation, or lack thereof, don't mean anything, it is your belief system and how you apply it to your life.

Going over and over the NT, I was so surprised by some things. First off, I was raised Catholic and never even picked up a Bible to read. The Catholics rewrite everything and feed it to you the way that they want you to learn and worship. I was so surprised and happy that I could actually pick up the Bible and read from it and discuss the actual words. I have really never gone back. The NT is so beautiful,even if you don't believe in God, just from a philosophical standpoint, it is simply beautiful. Of course I have gone over the OT as well, but I spend the majority of my time in the NT. In the NT it says that we really shouldn't be worried about the other "Church's" that were popping up all over and some of the Church's were different from each other, the answer was that we shouldn't concern ourselves about other Church's, faiths, we don't know the Grand Plan of God. That told me so much! So I don't really sit in judgment of other faiths, after all, who am I to try to figure out what God is planning and doing? How audacious is that? Really? So, I let it rest and try not to judge others in other faiths, but to respect them and to try to set a good example of what trying to be a good Christian is about.

So, you see, being a Quaker, Catholic, Baptist,.... doesn't really matter in the way a true Christian would treat you.

[libodem]

34. The Greatest Love of All

vs Power and Greed...Who will win? We haven't gotten the message in 2000 years.

[YIMA]

35. What's the difference between the Christian Left and Right?

I really have been trying to tell. I know their are differences, but what are the defining issues? Does the right view the Bible and its teaching more strictly than does the left? Does the left and right put more emphasis on certain parts and disregard others? If so, what are they? I have seen some here on the Christian Left say that the teachings of Paul are less important or to be ignored? Wasn't he an apostle or something? Does either side consider the other to be true Christians? I could really use a Cliff Notes version of the major differences.

[cidliz2004]

38. We do need to define the Christian Left

That will be one of the many obstacles. I personally believe that the Right is using the Bible as a weapon, they are using the Bible to dominate others, to gain wealth, to gain power and to empower themselves. They stand in constant judgment of others and regularly condemn others. Those are a beginning.

I believe that the Left (at least my Left) looks to criticize inward and tries to emulate Jesus' life.
When we are blessed we should share (something like what Wes Clark said), we are to help our neighbors not sit in judgment of them, that is not our purpose - God is the only one that knows the Grand scheme of things. We are to walk the walk and talk the talk and continue trying to become more faithful to God. That is our goal, our journey, that is daily work, that is what we aspire to - to grow and develop our faith in God and to try to emulate Jesus' life as much as possible. Leave the judging of our neighbors to God.

Honoring laws are fine, but stoning someone in righteous indignation is not. Do not pursue attacks against others. We look more inward at improving our souls and our relationship with God, I believe the Right is spending too much time looking at and judging others. "Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones" "Judge not lest ye be judged" The measure you use in judging others will be used in judging you (that one scare the devil out of me, I have a naturally critical mind)....Does that sound contrary to the Christian Right?? You bet it does. That is why I do not go to church, I would like fellowship, but I don't want somebody "interpreting" the Bible for me and feeding it to me as they choose. That is what the Holy Spirit is for, we need to have enough faith in God to turn to the Holy Spirit in our time of questions.

I feel that we are not so much looking for answers, but we are struggling in our journey (our day to day lives) to become a better Christians - by growing our faith, as we travel down our paths.

I am not here to tell you much, but rather to share and to help.
That is what Jesus did, he responded to questions, he traveled humbly and HELPED others as the situations arose.

So you tell me, where do we start? I am an ideas person - who out there is an organizer?

[cally]

36. I think we need to make our voices heard

We are out there and need to speak out. We need to tell our pastors that we won't accept making a church a political tool. Maybe that means leaving a church. Making a stand does make a difference.

Thanks for raising the issue. We need to think about this and quit cowering to the wealth of the megachurches.

[cidliz2004]

39. Walking as a group, but individually as we speak out

Maybe trying to identify ourselves in simple humble ways - and to abide by a few principles - starting with the 2 commandments in the NT. Maybe not by attacking, but by sharing pure thoughts and alternatives. Sounds silly, but maybe wearing blue shirts on Mondays, with some sort of Logo or saying might be a quiet way to start.

Enlisting others that have already started down this path for suggestions and some support might help to.

Maybe by saying who we are and what we believe and refrain from attacking or criticizing the Right.

We won't become a strong powerhouse, we shouldn't be, we will however be a presence, an alternative. We refrain from hatred and judgment of others, but emphasize that we are connected to God and we feel his spirit in us and we will not bend to the mind control of questionable Right wing Christian leaders, when God has provided us with the Holy Spirit. And with the Holy Spirit we can find our way to become close to God, that is our purpose. We do not aspire to Rule the world, but we will align ourselves with the Party that is inclusive to all of God's children rather than aligning ourselves with the Party that is excluding so many.

We need a think tank on this. what do you think?

[sea dee]

37. the Christian left lacks a worthy leader.

the Christian left lacks a worthy leader.

[kevsand]

41. There appears to be a similar dialog in Black churches.

Todays NYTimes: Black Churches Struggle Over Their Role in Politics

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/06/politics/06clergy.html?oref=login

"A tug of war is under way inside black churches over who speaks for African-Americans and what role to play in politics, spurred by conservative black clergy members who are looking to align themselves more closely with President Bush.

"The struggle, mainly among black Protestants, is taking place in pulpits, church conventions, on op-ed pages and on the airwaves, and the president himself began his second term with a meeting in the White House with black clergy members and civic leaders who supported his re-election.

"At the heart of the debate, church leaders say, is whether to stay focused primarily on issues like job creation, education, affirmative action, prison reform and health care, which have drawn blacks closer to the Democratic Party, or whether to put more emphasis on issues of personal morality, like opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage, which would place them deeper in the Republican camp."