Time for DU DEMS to stop Republicans.They're calling Cong about PAT III

[genius]

ACcording to this action alert, the Republicans are working to convince Congress that America wants PATRIOT III. This is part of the reason we are being sabotaged. They're better at calling, faxing, etc than we are. We need to get on the phone right now and top this travesty. http://www.teamamericapac.org/ta-tapr-050214-alert-senaterealid.shtml

The REAL ID Act negates the Separation of Powers and ends the right of judicial review for actions of the Homeland Security Secretary, a man involved in the financing of 9/11 (fact/not speculation. Once this passes, you can protest at the risk of going to death camps.

To counterthe Relpublican offensive, please everyone call all Senators you can get to (regardless of state).


Here is a resolution passed unanimously by the Patrick Henry Democratic Club. You may want to include a copy of this with your faxes. It calls on Senators to use their personal funds to protect Americans if it passes.
http://patrickhenrythinktank.org/res-hr418.html

RESOLUTION CALLING ON ALL MEMBERS OF THE U.S. SENATE TO OPPOSE HR 418 (THE REAL ID ACT) OR ANY SENATE EQUIVALENT



WHEREAS, the blanket authorization in Section 102 of HR 418 (misleadingly called the Real ID Act) allowing the Secretary of Homeland Security to waive all laws without judicial review or any relief for damages could be construed as allowing that official to commit mass murder or acts of terrorism or other acts devastating to the health and well-being of the American public without any limitations on his actions or protection for the American people, and

WHEREAS, HR 418 requires asylum seekers to provide evidence of their persecution issued by the persecuting governments themselves, thereby making it virtually impossible for anyone seeking relief from government oppression to obtain asylum in the United States, and

WHEREAS, the driver's license requirements of HR 418 would result in the operation of motor vehicles by significant numbers of unlicensed, uninsured motorists, thereby endangering the lives and safety of all drivers and pedestrians,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Patrick Henry Democratic Club calls on all members of the Senate to block, by all means possible, including holds, refusals to join unanimous consent agreements and filibusters HR 418 (or any equivalent Senate version of this bill) from ever reaching a vote in the U.S. Senate.

THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Patrick Henry Democratic Club calls on all Senators who fail to use all means possible to stop HR 418 (AKA “The Real ID Act” or any Senate equivalent) to apologize for their failure to uphold their oath to protect and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States and for all such Senators to offer their personal funds to protect all American citizens from any waiver of laws under this bill and to personally reimburse all American citizens for damages caused by any waiver of the laws under this bill and further calls on all members of the Senate to more correctly name this bill (HR 418, The Real ID Act or any Senate equivalent) PATRIOT Act III.


Passed unanimously on February 15, 2005.

[SupormomFreeAtLast]

1. OMG when will this nightmare end?

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[genius]

2. When our leaders start listening to us instead of the Republicans.

[Trish1168]

3. I wrote to three senators, Kerry, Kennedy and Frist

I wrote to my senators, Kerry and Kennedy, and I also wrote to Senator Frist!!

I told Frist that the republican party has lost my support and that I will change my registration to switch parties. I told him that if HR418 passes, I will change from ex-republican to democratic party activist. I also told Frist that its unpatriotic to un-do the constitution and that its immoral and unchristian (not that I'm religious) to swear on a Bible to uphold the constitution and then blatantly violate that oath.

I love and cherish the constitution. I hope that everyone who values the constitution, and fears these crazy people with all that excessive power, writes to their senator.

[Stop_the_War]

4. Hi Trish1168!

Welcome to DU!
:toast:

[genius]

5. Great comments.

I really don't know what has happened to our country.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. That's exactly what they're doing

I don't know if they'd listen though. *Sigh* Did you notice how fast Bush said the oath in January? It was like he wanted to get through it fastly.

[oneold1-4u]

16. A newbie welcome

from another not long ago. Finding DU was great for me as I don't do TV and much of the news available, really isn't! I find things on DU that hit regular media often days later. I think today in the US is becoming more and more like Germany in the late 30s, when no one understood what was happening. They thought "it couldn't be worse" and today in the US too many think "it couldn't be better"! The few who know what "worst" can mean, have to keep the road open for "best" once again, not just "better"! We can be best again and be a great leader in the world reaching for freedom and equality! We have to know it to teach it and not use weapons and armies to push it! Freedom lurks within the heart of people and when they can understand that IT CAN belong equally to everyone they will choose!

[LdyGuique]

6. This is not what HR 418 states

Read the language of the bill itself:

HR 418 (Text)

It actually strengthens judicial review and sets a procedure for appeal due to either torture or "removal"

The only section that mentions judicial review is:

Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant
Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as
follows:
``(c) Waiver.--
``(1) In general.--Notwithstanding any other provision of
law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the
authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary,
in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to
ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under
this section.
``(2) No judicial review.--Notwithstanding any other
provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court,
administrative agency, or other entity shall have
jurisdiction--
``(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any
action undertaken, or any decision made, by the
Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph
(1); or
``(B) to order compensatory, declaratory,
injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage
alleged to arise from any such action or decision.''.

That pertains most particularly to the piece of land that runs to the beach that has been blocking the fence from being completed due to enviornmental habitat issues.

[genius]

7. That is not true. Ask any attorney to read this to you.

I must say that your interpretations looks like something pulled from a Republican website. You better check your souces of information.

Any competant attorney will tell you that this section eliminates judicial review - absent the law being overturned as unconstitutiona. Here is the legal analysis of Section 102 from Patrick Henry:

http://patrickhenrythinktank.org/hr418-102.html

"So often lawmakers do not realize the ramifications of their words until years after laws go into effect. The best example is the use of Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution as the number one excuse for federal intervention in non-federal matters that do not seem in any logical way related to commerce. It is common practice to take language out of context and use it to apply to situations that those writing those laws could not even begin to imagine. All too often, the courts go along with this extended construction of the law.


"Section 102 allows the Secretary of Homeland Security to waive “all laws” with “no judicial review” and no remedies. Notice it does not specify property laws or immigration laws. If this section were to be limited to any particular laws, this limitation would have to be written into it. However, there is no limitation specifying which laws may be waived but rather the limitless statement “all laws.” “All laws” includes laws against murder, terrorism, kidnapping, torture, child abuse, false arrest, etc. Therefore the “all laws” necessarily include those related to death camps, the closing of borders and even mass murder.



"The lack of remedies means that if they wipe out all of Los Angeles, the families of those killed are not entitled to re-imbursement and that those wrongfully thrown into camps have no way of freeing themselves.

"The lack of judicial review, while undoubtedly unconstitutional, is likely to be adhered to by timid justices and those in the employ of the Bush and Cheney families. Is this another end run around the Right of Habeas Corpus? The Constitutional Right of Habeas Corpus proved ineffective against Ashcroft Jose Padilla is still not free and HR 418 was not even in existence when he was placed in detention.


"The result of one barrier and roads project was Auschwitz. HR 418 appears likely to take America in the same direction followed by Germany under Adolph Hitler, when he closed the borders and sent people to the death camps. "

[LdyGuique]

8. Elimination of Judicial Review ONLY applies to the fence

That is the subsection that this applies to (quite specifically) -- go and read the bill itself, I provided the link -- THAT is my source -- the language of the bill

[Padraig18]

9. You're correct.

[genius]

22. Wishful thinking is all you are basing this on. Please read and learn

how to interpret laws. You are artificially placing limits that are not there in the law. Under this law, there is no limit on what laws can be waived. "All" means "all."

[genius]

21. You are misreading the bill. Which laws are up to Chertoff.

If he feels blowing up New York will help with his border plan, then no one can question him and there will be no judicial review on the subject. Assuming that a court will limit a law that says the limit is in the sole discretion of an executive branch officer is over-estimating the Rehnquist-Scalia Court.

[LittleClarkie]

12. Dude, they're just a club, that's all

I don't care if they call themselves a think thank. They're just a freakin' club. They're opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's.

The chart from Patrick Henry Think Tank, showing the Senators' voting records, is just their opinion of the Senators' votes. The "resolution" they just passed unanimously is just the club saying they all agree. This "legal analysis" is once again just their opinion. It is no more nor less important than anyone else's opinion. Why make a club seem like they are more than they are, via resolutions and analysis and charts and such?

And insinuating that someone is citing Republican facts because they don't agree with your opinion is really beyond the pale.


Meanwhile, back at the ranch, how is this Act "Patriot III"? I can find precious few references to Patriot III. Only Patrick Henry and APFN.org, really. So is this widely thought to be Patriot III, or only by a handful of folks, such as y'all?

[LdyGuique]

13. Thank you, LittleClarkie and Padraig18 :)

I have to admit that I'm always surprised when I give "original document" source and link and am still trashed for being ignorant.

Whenever a bill is mentioned that doesn't jive with what I remember reading elsewhere, I go to the source: gpoaccess.gov

In fact, I always try to use as close to original source documents whenever possible, it cuts down on the rhetoric and opinionating.

[Padraig18]

17. The plain language of the bill itself backs you up.

I'm always amazed by the 'Chicken Little crowd' here who can take the plain language of a statute and turn it on its head, claiming that it means something completely different than what it plainly says. It just blows my mind, frankly...

:shrug:

[LdyGuique]

19. One of the hazards of becoming "political" is the development of paranoia

It is so easy, especially when dealing with the Lame Duck crowd, to become a kneejerk paranoid. The deeper any of us dig into the actions of LD's Administration, the harder it is to maintain a dispassionate perspective. I certainly slip now and again--pull my tinfoil hat out of the closet and place it firmly on my head, while I play the theme music from the Twilight Zone mentally. :)

[genius]

23. It's sad that lay people don't know the ramifications of laws.

Any competent attorney can give you a correct construction. Go see one.

[oneold1-4u]

18. "ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads "

I think "expeditious" sort of means they will quickly create a Gitmo anywhere and build a monster freeway to it! I'm still going to put what I can in my penny bank, for a ticket to somewhere for my last expected lifetime, if necessary, and never look back.

[genius]

24. Exactly, This allowed the creation of death camps in Germany

But this law is worse. There is no one to whom any connection to anything must be proved. Only Chertoff is to determine which laws are to be waived.

[LittleClarkie]

10. Dude, do you belong to this club

I see their name in your posts alot.

Or are you just an "admirer?"

[NVMojo]

14. more whackjob fucking insanity!!!

[Tuesday_Morning]

15. Already passed the House

The Real ID Act (don't you just love that name?) also opens the door to classifying anybody as a terrorist.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=56
By Larisa Alexandrovna

<snip>

"Groups across the gamut of social and political persuasions express concern over the Patriot Act II provision which gives the Secretary of Homeland Security even more authority. The definition of what is a terrorist and/or a terrorist organization is very broad and could include protesters, political groups, and anyone the government “labels” as a terrorist.

The law will also apply retroactively to activities that were legal at the time, but later were labeled “terrorist.” "

=========

And as Alexandrovna 's article stresses, many groups don't like this bill: Christian missionaries, gun advocates, libertarians, labor, progressives, and civil rights activists. Yet this bill moved very quickly through the House already and passed WITHOUT REVIEW.  

[LibertyorDeath]

20. This is all I need to hear.

"The American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly troubled by the implications of the proposed legislation, deeming this act as an annulment of the entire Bill of Rights."

To those in this thread that think the ACLU are chicken littles

You should not predicate your reaction to this bill on how it may or may not be interpreted.

This Bill sucks Period.

[Mr.Green93]

25. stop Republicans.They're calling Cong about PAT III

Pat was a good movie. Why not make another?