Vatican decries 'religion of health'

[emad]

By FRANCES D'EMILIO
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

VATICAN CITY -- Vatican officials Thursday decried what they called a "religion of health" in affluent societies and held out Pope John Paul II's stoic suffering as an antidote to the mentality that modern medicine must cure all.

"While millions of people in the world struggle to survive hunger and disease, lacking even minimal health care, in rich countries the concept of health as well-being figures in creating unrealistic expectations about the possibility of medicine to respond to all needs and desires," said the Rev. Maurizio Faggioni, a theologian and morality expert on the Vatican's Pontifical Academy for Life.

"The medicine of desires, egged on by the health care market, increases the request for pharmaceutical and medical-surgical services, soaks up public resources beyond all reasonableness," Faggioni said.

The theologian spoke at a news conference in advance of a debate in the academy next week on politically hot issues such as the right to life and medical care.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apeurope_story.asp?category=1103&slug=Vatican%20Health

[Warpy]

1. Yeah, and they all scream bloody murder

whenever somebody is taken off life support.

They don't care about how much technology is used by first worlders on extending life. They only care about how much misery one can wring out of the experience.

The Catholic Church has always made a big deal out of suffering as a way to salvation.

No wonder I left. Buddha was right. Asceticism doesn't work.

[barbaraann]

2. Isn't HE in a HOSPITAL receiving the BEST health care right now?

Am I missing something?

[elehhhhna]

3. Oh you said it, Bar! Like he's toughing it out without antibiotics?

[Padraig18]

4. Attack the messenger and ignore the message.

That's always helpful, and such a 'progressive' thing to do, too.

:eyes:

[Zenlitened]

5. It seems inevitable...

... when the messenger routinely spouts such nonsense.

This pope deserves every bit of criticism he gets, in my view.

[Padraig18]

6. Nonesense?

It's nonsense that much of the world lacks even basic health care while the First World routinely spends hundresd of billions of dollars on 'cosmetic/elective' health care? We must not understand 'nonsense' in the same way, if you think that his statement is spouting nonsense.

:wtf:

[Zenlitened]

8. The vatican statement is not about cosmetic procedures

Rather, it criticizes the desire to be in perfect health, suggesting that a fatalistic acceptance of illness and deterioration is preferable.

That's nonsense. It's part of a broader fault within the catholic church, which too often seems to value suffering.

A far better approach, in my view, would be an acknowledgment that excellent health is a worthy ideal -- a sensible human impulse -- and that there is a responsibility for the well-off to share the fruits of medical technology with those less fortunate.

Instead we get, "Suffering! Give it a try!"

[rodeodance]

10. the Church does indeed value suffering but this should not distract

from the substance of the Vatican's critique of health care!!

"While millions of people in the world struggle to survive hunger and disease, lacking even minimal health care, in rich countries the concept of health as well-being figures in creating unrealistic expectations about the possibility of medicine to respond to all needs and desires," said the Rev. Maurizio Faggioni, a theologian and morality expert on the Vatican's Pontifical Academy for Life.

[Zenlitened]

11. What the vatican calls "unrealistic expectations about... medicine"

... others might consider part of a laudable human drive for improvement of our collective lot in life. A desire to innovate and learn, explore and understand.

And, as I said, instead of saying "share the wealth," the vatican here seems to be saying "shut up and suffer."

That's philosophically, ethically, morally repugnant to me, and emblematic of the sort of thinking that makes this pope and the church under his stewardship such a negative force, in my view.

[Padraig18]

12. No, that's your less-than-charitable 'spin' about what it says.

"Suffering! Give it a try!" is not even CLOSE to what he said, but why let facts get in the way of a good agenda, right?

:eyes:

[Zenlitened]

13. If there is anyone here with an agenda, it is those who...

... immediately try to shut down any criticism of the pope and the catholic church. And cloak themselves in the ideals or progressivism while doing so.

My view is indeed less than charitable. I abhor what the church has done in its assault on gay and lesbian rights and dignity. I detest the way it has destroyed young lives in the priest sex abuse scandal, while rewarding one of the key players in that tragedy with a position of comfort and prestige. I am sickened by its insistence on condemning as 'immoral' simple techniques for disease prevention and birth control. I recoil at its many statements that I find to be at odds with Western ideals of inquiry, reason and self-determination.

I do not like the catholic church, that's a fact. I reject many of the positions it takes, and those who espouse them. Anything positive the church might do or once did is in my view far overshadowed by the bitter reality of how hurtful and destructive so many of its policies are, in real terms to real people the world over.

I'm not asking you to agree with me, but I do insist on my right to voice my views in a discussion forum designed to promote progressive thinking and ideals. Clearly, this makes you uncomfortable, to the point of spontaneous eye-rolling, among other symptoms.

I can live with that.

[arewenotdemo]

19. Bravo!!!

Speak the truth, Z!

[Rockholm]

17. I agree, Zen.

[sendero]

15. I understand..

.... what he is saying. And while I find myself in serious disagreement with the Catholic church pretty often, on this point I agree.

We are turning our medical resources and research towards the relatively frivolous when there are serious problems to solve. Money has corrupted health care and pharmaceuticals, like it has everything else.

[noamnety]

7. you ARE missing something

His two fulltime personal physicians.

"soaks up public resources beyond all reasonableness." Indeed. I guess it's okay to throw stones so long as your glass house is bullet-proof.

[Nay]

18. Just what I was gonna say. What's an old sick guy like him

doing in a hospital, sucking resources away from younger folks who could use them??

[rodeodance]

9. I imagine he is speaking of Viagra--the medicine of desire???

[KittyWampus]

14. The Limitless Light Is The Healing Agent That Cures All Disease

it is free so I can't imagine Pharmaceutical co's would like us to understand how it works.

it is accesible to all despite whatever religion they follow so I can't imagine the Church would want people to understand how it works.

it is independant of Physical Matter so I can't imagine Establishment Science would even admit there is such a thing.

[DARE to HOPE]

16. I also believe that we need more WELLNESS in the world...

...and less MEDICAL INTERVENTION.

Cleaning up the water supply, encouraging indigenous diets rather than the westernization which is spreading our ill health everywhere, spreading knowledge about family planning, THESE are the things that will improve health around the world. Keeping people in touch with one's family and social centers, improving the planet's ability to survive, THESE are the important steps we need to take.

In our own culture, it was cleaning up the water supply that was responsible for the increased life expectancy in the last century, as well as improved diet. In our own time, the diet and air and water have all declined, and each generation is getting sicker.

Did you all see the news this week? The flu vaccine is now determined to have saved NOT ONE LIFE in the years we have had access to it.

The world cannot afford our over medicalized solutions. Nor are they what would be optimal.

[leyton]

20. And if anyone but the pope said this...

DUers would be applauding the sentiment, would they not? We do spend an inordinate amount of money on our healthcare - and get diminishing returns after a while. We ought to consider spending more money for healthcare in the Third World. Good for the pope, I'm glad he said it.

[QC]

21. Yep, if the Dalai Lama had said the same thing

this thread would contain about 100 posts praising the mysterious wisdom of the East, melodramatically demanding to know why Americans will not accept something so obvious, declaring that if only "Xtians" and "fundies" were more like His Holiness there would be no pain or suffering in the world, etc.

A while back, the Pope issued a statement condeming Western consumerism and suggesting that people spend more time with their families instead of shopping and watching tv. You would think "progressives" would applaud such sentiments, since we've been saying the same things about consumerism for generations, but the response was like the one to this thread, except there were more non sequiturs about pedophilia.