Al Gore - the only big Dem with balls?

[montana500]

I really wonder. The guy tells it like it is, and stood fighting tall when the rest of his party betrayed him during the Florida recount ( Lieberman cough cough). And here he is, the only dem with media coverage bashing Gannon/Guckert.

I hope he runs in 08.



http://www.bushgreenwatch.org/mt_archives/000241.php

[LittleClarkie]

1. Hey, it's only an accident of genetics that Boxer doesn't have cajones

Give her a break. She has maguppies instead. Even so, I'd say there are a few more who have stones as well.

Kennedy, Reid, Kerry, Feingold...

[montana500]

3. Why no statement from Kerry on fake reporter?

nm

[LittleClarkie]

6. He's been making statements on everything else

He can't comment on every damn thing. He's fighting on about 10 different fronts as it is.

I've seen statements on voter suppression, health care, the environment, getting Rummy fired, election reform, Iraq, Condi, Gonzalez, a transition home for returning veterans, military family benefits and I'm sure there's more. He's been a busy boy.

Somebody else can take point on this one. Kerry's like a whirling dervish as it is. I mean, holy crap, I wonder how long he's gonna keep it up!

[Califooyah Operative]

78. I think that sometimes it's better for major figures within the party

to leave the dirty work to us (atleast in front of the camera) and the lower level party leaders,to do the yelling and screaming, to avoid political fall outm eatleast until the thing blows up, all major politicians are cautious. (even a lot of people here at du are unsure as what this gannon thing really means)

[Jamastiene]

5. Hey,

women can have balls too. We just carry them up higher so the whole world can see. See? <holding shoulders back and chin forward in mock strength> :D

[Rosco T.]

7. Gore/Boxer '08. Two Fighting Tigers... n/m

[elshiva]

85. Woo hoo, I'm loving her maguppies!

Boxer is the Boss of me.

[Old and In the Way]

2. Al was pretty fired up last summer/fall....but then he seemed to disappear

Was that the media shutting off his political oxygen or did I just lose track of him on my radar screen?

[Jamastiene]

4. Yes or at least

one of a handful who will tell it like it is. And yes, he did stand up and fight for us just like he promised in 2000 during his campaign. The guy fought for us and didn't even become president. Now is that public service or is that public service? He's got balls and class. And I'm not saying that because of his teaching gig. I'm saying that because he has a level of dignity that I admire. I'd vote for him.

[Melodybe]

8. Don't forget Dean, Conyers, Tubbs, Boxer

This story is just now picking up steam, just because we haven't heard anything from them yet doesn't mean we won't.

I love that the CMC (corporate media cartel) is being forced to cover this. How ironic is it that an actual whore is helping us to expose the media whores. The fact that he is homosexual prostitute makes the irony that much better.

Anywho big cheers to Al Gore, he is one of my heros.

[imenja]

9. Were you alive in 2000?

Where were his balls when he needed them?

[Rosco T.]

10. When the SOCTUS facilicated the coup.. what more could he do? n/m

[imenja]

12. He could have run a decent campaign

He could have stood up for progressive issues. He could have spoken his mind rather than present himself as a plastic robot. He could have allowed Bill Clinton to campaign for him. He could have embraced the Clinton record rather than running away from it. He could have wiped the floor with Bush in the debates. He could have won his home state. He could have won New Hampshire. He could have won Arkansas if he hadn't been afraid of Clinton. He could have kept the Republicans from rolling over him during the Florida recount. How is that for starters?
He showed no balls during the 2000 campaign. So he makes some bold statements now when he's got nothing at stake. I don't trust him to stand up for anything during another presidential campaign.

[Rosco T.]

14. He won by 500,000 votes... what do you call that? n/m

[imenja]

19. call me picky

but I wanted a Democrat in the White House during the last term. Alternative vote counts don't mean much if it doesn't get him the job.

[John_H]

51. A loss. Beating Chimp by less than half a point

when you are Veep to a president w/ a 68% approval rating is prima facia evidence you ran a piss poor campaign.

[RealDems]

15. How can you complain that he didn't stand up for progressive issues

and then say he should've used Clinton more in the campaign and campaign on the Clinton record? Clinton is the king of the moderates. Should he have campaigned on Clinton's "progressive" trade policies? Welfare reform?

[imenja]

18. fair point

My main complaint is that he lacked the courage of conviction to express his ideas, whether progressive or new democrat. He spent the entire campaign trying to avoid controversy. I felt he offered nothing. I ended up voting for Nader, though given how disastrous Bush turned out to be, I regret that vote.

Gore speaks out now, but he holds no position to protect. The only reason I can think of for this tremendous change in ideology and rhetoric is that 1) he saw Dean as successful and wanted to draw some of that enthusiasm 2) he doesn't have an election to worry about.
The fact is, the Gore we've heard in the past year is not the same man who ran for president in 2000. Which one would we see in a 2008 campaign?

I prefer a candidate with the courage of their convictions even while in office. Barbara Boxer, for example. I also admire Dean's determination to speak forcefully on issues he is passionate about.
Politicians who are inconsistent in their public presentations and policies strike the voting public as less than genuine. Whoever we end up running in 2008 needs to forcefully advance a political platform that reflects their own heart-felt beliefs. Anything else, and we won't win.

[Adelante]

26. And then there is that scene

In "Fahrenheit 9/11," which I watched again not long ago, with Black Congressional Caucus members one by one practically begging Senators to challenge the 2000 election decision; Al gore presiding, banging that gavel over and over, overruling them. It was horrific to see even after four years. And then, it felt like it was happening all over again with the 2004 certification debate, except for Boxer, and reading Barbara Boxer say that she would have stood up in '00 but Al Gore asked her not to, I thought my head would explode. It was the first time in 38 years I thought I would leave the party.

For all the reasons you say, Imenja, and more, yes, but this is the one I don't forget. The idea of Al Gore in '08 is stomach-turning to me. And I did vote for him in 2000.

[Crunchy Frog]

47. I voted for Nader too.

The final breaking point for me with Gore was when he seemed to be coming out in favor of the politically motivated kidnappings of small children, in order to pander for a few extra votes in south Florida that he wasn't going to get anyway. (Remember Elian Gonzales?) That essentially told me that there were no principles that he wasn't prepared to jettison for the sake of political expediency.

I see the fundamental principles that underlie American family law as being too important to pander away for a few votes. I guess I'm just funny that way.:shrug:

[imenja]

58. agree

If that had been my child, I would have insisted that group be prosecuted for kidnapping. The idea that a father isn't fit to raise a child simply because someone doesn't like the government of the country he comes from is as wrong as it gets. Moreover, most Floridians believed that child needed to be with his father and were pissed off at the Cubans during that whole affair. Gore's selling out on that issue didn't help him, since the Cubans vote Republican anyway.

[Crunchy Frog]

69. Yup, I've always felt that Gore

might very well have taken Florida, even with all the fraud, if he taken the principled position on that issue. I think he would have gotten alot of non-Cuban Republican votes in south Florida, as they overwhelmingly felt the same way, and also were probably non to thrilled with Cubans rioting in the streets and burning American flags.

At any rate, I found it incomprehensible that someone who was a father himself, could take the position that Gore did on that.

[RealDems]

63. Gore was speaking out before Dean took off

Gore gave his first speech opposing the war in September 2002 (when he was still a potential '04 candidate). Later that month, he came out in favor of single payer health care, and was the first Dem to call for Trent Lott to step down.

I also agree that he could've displayed more of this courage during the campaign, but I tend to give him the benifit of the doubt and say that he recognized his mistake and has worked to correct it since then.

[imenja]

64. yes, but

when Gore spoke, he wasn't running for the presidency. Dean was a candidate, yet he had the courage to speak up anyway. I know Bush voters who respect Dean for the courage of his convictions, even as they disagree strongly with his views. Courage of convictions is something we need badly in our candidates. Gore may have been no worse than Kerry in this regard. It's hard for me to judge since my political pragmatism and loyalty to the party has solidified greatly as a result of living through a Bush presidency. I do know that the public perceived both candidates as lacking in this regard. Yes, it was a MSM message, but it had resonance with voters. We can't have those kind of candidates in the future.
It's great Gore is speaking up now. He should continue to do so. I will not, however, support him for the 2008 Democratic nomination. Nor will I support Kerry.

[Jamastiene]

16. I partially agree.

"He could have allowed Bill Clinton to campaign for him. He could have embraced the Clinton record rather than running away from it."
and
"He could have won Arkansas if he hadn't been afraid of Clinton."

I agree with that much.

[Kahuna]

21. He did stand up for "progressive" issues. Only Nader voters..

had their heads so far up... Ack! Nevermind. It's a circular argument.

[Nordmadr]

38. Nobody is perfect. HE made some bad choices, took some bad

advice, and was greatly stung for awhile I think. He appears ready to rock and roll again now though, and has for a couple of years.

Olaf

[ArtVandaley]

70. Haha, you're exactly right

He's ballsy when he has nothing to lose. Someone kept his balls in a jar during the 2000 campaign.

[kaho]

11. ...surely not....

...yesterday's man isn't he?
Credibility's the problem here, particularly over the environment.
Hell, I'd prefer that John Kerry put his hand up again.
But pardon this observation from a non-USA citizen.
The right person is waiting, and dare I say it, he/she will propose a "third way" that will guarantee election and re-election. (Just as the UK's Tony Blair is demonstrating.)

[Bridget Burke]

46. Oh, a US version of Tony Blair!

I can hardly wait...

I'd be glad to vote for Gore again.

[FredScuttle]

13. Dean, Reid, Boxer....

it's a veritable spring bloom of Democratus testicula grande...figuratively speaking, of course.

[JNelson6563]

30. I'd add Levin to that list

he can play one mean SAKAL.

Julie

[kaho]

71. ...the late Bernard Levin?

...the great columnist from the London Times?

[saracat]

17. Good for him . Don't know if he is the best for 08 but it is great he is

speaking out. The journaslist in him is probably offended and justifiably!

[BlueInRed]

20. Well, maybe not only, but one of a very select few...

I think Dean and Boxer qualify as well, plus Conyers.

I sure love that Gore is standing on principle, rather than caving in. It's all about making a stand.

[Skittles]

22. THE MAJORITY OF DEMS HAVE "BALLS"

what they lack is COURAGE

[mattclearing]

29. *scratches head*

:shrug:

[Skittles]

48. what is there to scratch your head about?

I am f***ing SICK of seeing that tired old reference to BALLS which infers that male body parts are required for courage. It f***ing SUCKS, ESPECIALLY ON A PROGRESSIVE BOARD.

[mattclearing]

55. It's a figure of speech.

I didn't see you running for the caps lock when people said Barbara Boxer had balls.

[Skittles]

61. it is a sexist, demeaning, outdated piece of SHIT "figure of speech"

and I WOULD have said something if I had SEEN it

[CWebster]

23. Just think--he was instructed to get out of the way for Kerry.

and we could've had someone who opposed the "Mes o'Potamia" rather than continually drumming up the military theme bravado.

[sendero]

24. I don't think much of..

.... second chances at the presidency. But if I were to get behind one, it would definitely be for Gore over Kerry.

Kerry triangulated himself into a no-win situation when he voted for the IWR. His "nuanced" story is plausible, but not to the large number of Americans who can't see past the end of their nose.

Gore ran a lousy campaign and made some stupid mistakes. But then so did Kerry. I think Gore listened too much to his managers, the debates are where he lost the election - trying to look like something he was not at the time. Kerry might have listened too much to his managers, his tepid response to the SBV ads probably cost him the election.

Personally, I hope the party nominates someone who hasn't yet had a shot and who knows his way around selling a position - Clark.

[CWebster]

25. Gore has evolved

Kerry and clark are still playing up their military bravado when they should be challenging the fundamental intent of the Invasion.

That is where real national security matters--someone who won't recklessly engage us in costly endless war. In this case militarism doesn't equal strength, it equals stupidity.

[Adelante]

27. What's your question?

"the fundamental intent of the Invasion"

What is it you think Clark has not challenged?

[CWebster]

31. So he is a general

That is supposed to singular element which makes us all warm and cozy?

Sorry, I am not buying it. It triangulates on the right wing illusion of what constitutes strong--or as tweety would slobber over "a stud in a uniform". And, by extention, I do not support the troops, because the underlying suggestion is their cause is legitimate, when in truth, they are little more than pawns in a rich man's game.

[Adelante]

What is it you think Clark has not challenged? nt

[Crunchy Frog]

34. I was under the impression that Gore

wanted to invade Iraq back when he was VP. At any rate, I found him far too right wing for me back in 2000. I only hope that I don't end up having to vote Green again in 2008.

[CWebster]

35. the illusion of national security equating militarism?

Seems he felt that it was necessary to remind Dean who represented it.

You want the US to show off it's military bravado to the world as our "national security"?

[Tom Rinaldo]

39. Clark was upset with Kerry for flirting with McCain

Kerry supposedly was considering picking McCain for Secretary of Defense. Clark thought that was a lousy idea, which sent the message that the Democratic Party has to reach beyond our ranks to keep our country secure. Had Kerry picked McCain, it would have been the second straight Republican that a Democratic President had installed as Secretary of Defense. That is the real context of Clark's "We have to be a full service Party". He was amazed that some Party leaders (and I think the name to plug in here is Kerry, who obviously still is a Party leader, not Dean) seemed tone deaf to the implications of Democratic Presidents repeatedly installing Republicans to head the Pentagon.

[CWebster]

44. Okay Tom

Understood within the context.

[BootinUp]

40. Maybe you couldn't hear what he said

because you were blinded by the uniform. Thats sad, because Clark had some very powerful things to say on exactly the subject you are raising. For some, he was the one with the most credibility to make your case.

(edited to make it clear who I was talking about.)

[Adelante]

50. I see what you're getting at here, then

Tom already explained the backstory.

But to add to it, this is what Clark said last week, when he was in Texas for the Dallas Democratic Forum, about Dean:

From Dallas Morning News
08:43 PM CST on Monday, February 14, 2005

Retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark was in town Friday for a gathering of the Dallas Democratic Forum.

Gen. Clark told me that he was optimistic about the prospects of former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean reshaping the Democratic Party.

Some Republicans have mocked the choice of Dr. Dean as chairman of the Democratic National Committee because his presidential campaign appealed to liberals.

"Democrats have to give him a chance," Gen. Clark said.

He offered advice for his former rival in last year's Democratic presidential primaries. "We have to be a full-service party," he said. "And you have to have a vision of how to protect the country and America's security."

http://tinyurl.com/6a2ay

Opinions may differ as to whether that is good or bad advice. Of course, any Democrat can give the DNC chair advice, even you, even me. I happen to think Clark's advice is good advice. Why let the American public continue in its delusion that the Republicans are keeping them safe? It's nothing about "military bravado" - it's about correcting the message that Bush is keeping the country safe; which is a lie, but like it or not, as the recent Gallup poll showed, 89% of Americans feel they are not safe, either because of war or terrorism. Clark's "full service party" does not take anything away from Dem creds on Domestic issues; it simply reinserts national security and foreign policy into the Democratic policy mix; something that has been lost, to be regained. This is a good thing for the Democratic Party and necessary if we ever want to win a national election ever again. It takes nothing away from Howard Dean.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. What is it that makes you think

his being a general makes us "all warm and cozy"?

And if you want to equate non-military with non-militarist, then you should probably love the current administration. After all, they probably collectively have the least amount of military service of any administration in American history. You should be pleased with all the peace we're enjoying under such non-militarists.

[BootinUp]

42. Clark could have lit himself on fire while giving his speeches

Cwebster still wouldn't have listened.

[Crunchy Frog]

45. Yep, I think your right about that.

Probably not a whole lot of point in trying to debate under those circumstances.

I find it interesting that I'm more left wing than he is. I voted for Nader rather than vote for Gore, and if Gore is our nominee again, I'll probably end up voting Green again.:shrug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. In fairness I think many people are more open to listening now

The past is the past. The primaries were a competitive period and many were locked into fighting in a partisan manner to help their chosen person get the nomination. To an extent I would say that about myself also relative to candidates other than Clark. The fact that Clark was an untested and relatively unknown player was part of that also, and kept some from giving him serious consideration.

Since then, after failing to secure a spot on our ticket, Democrats have been able to witness Clark's continuing fighting resolve on behalf of our Party, which should help fill in the blanks for some. No one needs to lock in their support for another Presidential candidate for years to come. Hopefully all of us will be able to appreciate positive contributions whenever they are made, from wherever. It's a new day, I've turned over a new leaf and won't pin other posters to the stance they took in 2003/2004.

OK, having said that, it is a shame that some of the things Clark was saying then weren't adequately appreciated at the time. Here is one of them:

Wes Clark rebuttal to Kerry Lieberman Edwards and Gephardt in early primary debate (thanks to sybil for posting this earlier):

"...This administration's preemptive doctrine is CAUSING North Korea and Iran to ACCELERATE their nuclear weapons development. Now there are some of us who aren't in Washington right now, but I'd like to ask all those who are...lets see some leadership in the United States Congress. Let's see you take apart that doctrine of preemption NOW. I don't think we can wait until November 2004 to change the administration on this threat. We're marching into another military campaign in the Middle East. We need to stop it." --Wesley Clark

It doesn't take a General to make sense on National Security, but when a General is making sense, I'll take it.

[montana500]

68. the media is so biased on the debates

Gore looked foolish, but not as bad as Bush in 2004 - not even close. Bush also got caught in several lies (traps made by Kerry that he walked in to) - yet the media did nothing. MAkes me sick.

[BootinUp]

33. Even the dems

wouldn't nominate someone that advocated bailing from Iraq, but you think that position would have won in the general election? You can't win an election in wartime with an antiwar position, not with the low body count we are seeing anyways...sorry to say.

[mattclearing]

28. Ummm...I have to disagree there.

Al Gore won the election, and his nomination speech was extremely ballsy, as was his pick of Joementum.

However, his recount conduct was totally middle of the road and seemed consultant-driven.

I've said this a few times before, but it bears repeating. If Al Gore had asked for a full statewide manual recount instead of a partial recount in four counties that favored him, the inarguably right and fair thing to do, he would be President today.

The partial recount, especially while pleading to "count ALL the votes," was pretty weak, I thought. I understood why he was doing it, but I thought it was poor leadership. If you're going to say, "count all the votes," you'd better mean it.

[janx]

74. I've never been able to figure that out either.

And I thought I remembered that he originally wanted a full, statewide recount of the votes.

Bad legal advice?

In any case, I'll always admire Gore, and I'd be thrilled if he ran for president again.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Nordmadr]

36. Please let him run for President again. He doesn't have

the most electric personality, but damnit, a President shouldn't have to be a pop star (or messiah). He should be a critical thinker and have some damn integrity. Gore is still the man for President in my opinion. DO YOU HEAR ME AL???!!!!

Olaf

[Q]

37. Gore lost a lot of ground in the 2000 campaign by taking the advice...

...of the DLC. But he turned populist during his acceptance speech and that's when the so-called centrists of the party abandoned him and fed him to the RWing smear machine. DLC 'democrats' refuse to admit that election fraud took place in 2000 and insist that it was his 'liberalism' that cost him the election.

Many Democrats wanted Gore to run in 2004 and they still don't understand why he didn't. He was literally exiled from the party (by the Clinton DLCers) for telling the truth about greedy corporations, HMOs, drug companies and 'corporate polluters'. His speeches against Bush's warmongering were called 'Bush Bashing' by DLC insiders like Al From.

Most Democrats want Gore to take his rightful place in the WH. But until the DLC allows an even playing field in the primaries...Gore or anyone else to the left of Lieberman will be labeled as 'unelectable' by the DLC faction.

[John_H]

53. Gore lost from taking the advice of the

people that would later bring us judo chess, and who are still in place running the democratic political operation.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

43. No one fucking gets it, huh?

Let me say this loud and clear:

It's easy to be bold or "have balls" when it doesn't matter what you say or do!

Let me let you in on a little secret: guys like Kucinich, Kennedy, or Byrd have it a LOT easier than the vast majority of our party members. They are not in any danger of getting kicked out of office and they are not seriously going to be a national candidate (Kucinich himself couldn't have possibly believed he would win). The vast majority of our Congressmen and Senators would LOVE to be that bold, but they have other considerations to think about.

Gore wasn't that bold when he was in office. Why is he now? BECAUSE HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE ANYMORE!!! It's that simple. When your words and actions no longer have consequence, it's much easier to say and do whatever you want. We enjoy that freedom every single day, but they don't get that luxury.

I wish more people here would understand that.

[John_H]

52. Everyone should read the above post because

it sums up the thinking of the majority of Dem strategists in a nutshell: "Since our careers trump all other concerns, we do not fight. Fighting raises the possibility of risk. Risk may hurt our careers. So fight we won't." People not wanting to be the one who "lost the election" is the reason the words "judo chess" and "rope-a-dope" exist in the democratic political lexicon.

The down side of this is that our opponents, elected officials or not, take a different view: "This is a bloodsport and the only way to win a bloodsport is to fight for keeps. Any risk I take is better than the risk of political judo---which in 21st century American politicsguarantees loss."

The result: A republican in the White House. GOP control of both houses. Right wing courts. War. Poverty. Deficits.

Maybe some day it will occur to the prom kings and queens that tell our candidates and surrogates what to say that their approach is the riskiest strategy of all.

[BootinUp]

54. Nice soundbite

But it kind of ignores what really got us here though. You can trace our party's near demise back to the 60's and 70's when we were in power. There wasn't a whole lot of compromise going on back then.

Its not so much compromise, it is image though. Clinton was right when he said we need to work on our image.

[kentuck]

56. Exactly !

Don't fight! You might lose bullshit.

[eridani]

73. Kucinich certainly was at risk of being kicked out of office--

--when he refused to sell Muny Light. He did so refuse, and was in fact kicked out of office--and elected to office again 15 years later when everyone realized that he was right. Most politicians are made of weaker stuff, unfortunately.

[ulTRAX]

79. you ignore the other possibility

That Gore honestly believes he made a mistake in 2000 by not being more of a Populist.

[ckramer]

57. You forget Ted Kennedy

[kaho]

59. ...oh no....

....he will never be forgotten....

[yellozebra]

81. He's too old.

I respect the man immensely, he is like the left moral anchor of the party, truly non beholden to special interests, but he's too old. The job would kill him, I prefer him alive.

[Rainscents]

60. Gore/Boxer 08?

[Bryn]

62. What About Ex Florida Senator Bob Graham?

I liked that man a lot. He spoke against going to Iraq War and said that we should focus more on terrorist cells, etc. and war in Afgahanian.

[Adelante]

65. I love Bob Graham

I very much doubt he would want to run again.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Mass_Liberal]

66. I do

n/t

[WeThePeople1911]

67. ok

ok

[wyldwolf]

72. It's easy to have big balls when you have nothing to lose

[LinuxInsurgent]

75. please please please...NO AL GORE...

people...AL Gore, Joe Lieberman, Hillary CLinton, Bill Clinton - ALL DLC ESTABLISHMENT SOCIALITE UPPER-CLASS DEMOCRATIC political whores.

They are not the grassrots Democrat party...stop thinking they will come to your rescue!

[Still_Loves_John]

76. You know, for some people,

the only palatable politicians will be guys like Gore, because Gore is never going to cast a vote you don't like. All Gore has to do is go around making speeches--he never has to make a difficult decision, he never has to vote on an unpopular bill, he never has to appease his constituency. All he has to do is talk. And so many people's demands are so unrealistic that the only politician who won't eventually "betray" them is one who never gets the opportunity.

[janx]

77. Gore has been a congressman, a senator,

and the vice president of the United States. He's had to make plenty of decisions, popular and unpopular, throughout his distinguished career.

[yellozebra]

80. He moves me everytime he speaks

Here's what he said recently,

AL Gore's Moral Leadership Lesson

He called Bush's climate change denial a "stunning display of moral cowardice."

Ouch.

Gore/Boxer '08 sounds very very sexy.

[ClayZ]

83. I think it is time Gore got the job he was elected for 2000

I mean Right Now!

[sampsonblk]

82. Don't forget Wes Clark

Brains and balls, all in one package.

[LittleClarkie]

84. It occurs to me: How cheap is talk?

And how easy is it to have balls when you're not being accountable for votes?