Clark and Dean Supporters - I don't like this MSM story

[ZootSuitGringo]

I want all of you to take a deep breath and think about what is being said in the article below. It appears that the MSM is attempting to create more discord between Democrats by pitting Clark and Dean supporters against one another. It is true that a handful of bad apples in each camp have been guilty of unjustified negativity to date, but I think that they are the exception and not the rule.

It is my guess that MSM is, in fact, attempting to create a National Security vs. Social Security divide in the Democratic party where there should be none. I, for one, think that mostly all Democrats are in favor of both strong National Security and Strong Domestic policies.

The reason this is somewhat upsetting to me is that it looks like the MSM spies are using some of what they read on Clark and Dean’s blogs to make biased conclusions that they shouldn’t. Next thing you know, Newsweek will be running with this rumor, as they like nothing better than a good juicy negative story line to run about the Dems.

Personally, I don’t think that Dean wants to start out his chairmanship with a more divided house than already exists, and I don’t think that Clark, who is a relatively new Democrat appreciates this either. I don’t believe that Clark’s “Associates” (notice that they are unnamed-could be a couple of posters on the blog) represent Clark's thoughts, and I don’t believe that Dean isn’t jazzed up about wanting Dems strong on National Security.

I think that Howard Dean and Wes Clark are possibly the strongest two Democrats out there today, in their own way. Both have large followings and heavy internet presense. I would hate to have them on separate teams. I supported Dean as Chairman, and I think that many others who like Clark did as well. I also don’t believe that Dean supporters don’t like Clark or don’t want Dems strong on defense. I’m not sure what we should do to get rid of this kind of talk, but I don’t like this one bit.

USNEWS.COM
2/9/05
It's Dean vs. Clark
Here's another reason why some Democrats are fretting over installing antiwar former presidential candidate Howard Dean as chair of the Democratic National Committee. He might cede national defense to the Republicans. That's the charge from associates of another former presidential candidate, former NATO boss Wes Clark. Seems the Clark and Dean teams have been warring over the future of the Democratic Party, and now that threatens to spill into the public if Dean, as expected, wins the chairmanship this Saturday. Here's the fight: Clark wants the Democrats deeply involved in foreign policy and the war, and Dean's team isn't as jazzed about that. They see domestic policy and issues like Social Security and the deficit as the keys to success. But this might be the real rub against Dean: Clark fans think the retired general will be marginalized by Dean. Chart the fight on their blogs.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/archive/february2005.htm

[Eric J in MN]

1. If it's a "Washington Whisper" than it must be true!

Unless it's a false rumor, in which case they have the excuse that it was under the heading of "Washington Whispers."

[madfloridian]

2. Didn't your first post on this disappear?

?

[ZootSuitGringo]

10. Yup

because I included links that I shouldn't have according to DU rules. Although those links are part of the article.

[hector459]

99. What links are we not allowed to include in our posts?

I read the rules but don't understand this thing about links.

[Crunchy Frog]

102. I would tell you what it is,

but it would get my post deleted. Sorry.

[oasis]

3. Wolf Blitzer/ Tim Russert should be interviewing Dean soon. Dean has no

love for the MSM and won't take any bait. He'll put down any contrived bullshit that the corporate boys attempt.

[ZootSuitGringo]

8. I hope Dean kicks their ass back and forwards.

On another thread here, it is said that Howard Dean wants to go after their perceived strength. That would be National Security. So this article is just a bunch of shit put out there to sow discord within the party. Guess some asshold read a few bloggers saying nasty things, and then took the liberty at trying to start some kind of civil war. I detest the media.

[Just Me]

79. Yup. I'm gettin' real tired of CM "sowing discord"!!!

The Corporate Media has a pattern of mischaracterizing and it seems to be done ON PURPOSE!!!

It's increasingly obvious whose side the CM is on!!! :mad:

[autorank]

4. I'm a Clark guy and I love Dean. I see it all the time on DU.

The CM (corporate media) types need to be thought of for what they are, trolls. Just think of the world as a potentially fine place that is disrupted by fascists. The CM as troll advancing the fascist agenda.

[Zuni]

68. Clark guy who has great faith in Dean as well.

I would have Clark first. Dean, second in 2004

[madfloridian]

5. Well, since I know I am not a bad apple, I won't worry.

I have been a Dean supporter for two years. Many of us have paid dearly for that at some forums. I am a good guy, not one of the bad apples, not my problem.

I post good things about Dean, and I will continue to do so.

[ZootSuitGringo]

18. You paid dearly at some forums for supporting Howard Dean?

Why?

[madfloridian]

25. You are new here. I won't elaborate.

The story you posted should clue you in. I will not be baited to say more on that.

[ZootSuitGringo]

36. That's not fair.

You make mention but won't elaborate. That's bait right there.

Anyway, I've been on both of those blogs. There were a couple of really bad examples on that people one, maybe because of how it is organized. On the Clark one it was hard to tell what was going on if anything. But on the people one, some of the title of some of those threads were like pretty obscene to me.

I like Clark a lot, and I like Dean a lot.

There really should be no problems.

[madfloridian]

37. Make up your own mind.

Dean will be chair, he will do his best with our help. Clark may or may not run at all, which makes it a moot issue.

I never claimed to be fair, just said I was one of the good guys.

[ZootSuitGringo]

45. I think that most people here are good guys and gals.

I don't understand you that well, but it is getting late, so maybe it is just me.

Dean will be chair. I am sure he will do his best with hour help. I hope Clark runs. I don't know about the moot issue thingie inserted, but ok.

You never claimed to be fair. Ok. You are one of the good guys. Ok.

[Tom Rinaldo]

86. I second that

As a Clarkie let me say that MF is one of "the good guys", (she's a she though). She is honest with her opinions and while I wish she thought a bit more highly of Clark than she does, she never trashes. MF I applaud your reserve over not being drawn to revisiting wounds from the past, though I regret there ever were any. Too often that only reopens them, and this article cited shows the danger of that. I appreciate your positive commentary on Dean, and value your participation on DU.

[Tom Rinaldo]

88. Oooops, double posting, self delete n/t

[mistertrickster]

87. I'll recap for you. During the primaries, emotions were running high

for backers of all the major candidates. As DU is an anonymous forum, flaming is easy to do. Some people caved in to the temptation to run down the other candidates and dig up dirt. It really wasn't too much different from what some Dem operatives were doing in Iowa--witness the attack ads on and sometimes BY both Dean and Gephardt.

Fortunately, all that unpleasantness is behind us now. There is not now nor ever has been any real conflicts between Dean, Kerry, Gephardt, Clark, or Edwards. Reasonable people can differ however on who would have been the best candidate for president.

[Sparkly]

89. I hope you're right

that the unpleasantness is behind us now. There's no reason for anyone to "run down the other candidates and dig up dirt," as you put it. Particularly with Dean firmly in position as Chairman of the DNC, and others staying active in their own ways, there is no competition. So I hope we can celebrate or at least appreciate the strong support individual Democrats have and not feel threatened by threads or polls expressing support for one or another.

[FredScuttle]

6. Yawn

At a time when Democrats are more united than at any other time since the election, I'm shocked, shocked that this bullshit is being trotted out.

Maybe they'll read these threads too and the next "Washington Whisper" will be:

"DEMOCRATS OBSESSED WITH GAY FAKE REPORTER, SUPPORT NAZI-LOVING RADICAL PROFESSOR"

[Up2Late]

9. Can they fit all that on the cover of the N.Y. Post?

[Up2Late]

7. How much you figure the WH is paying these "reporters?"

God they Suck

[ZootSuitGringo]

12. If you don't think that these paid WH reporters won't be under our beds

soon, think again.

[Clark2008]

19. Good. Then maybe they can clean out those dust bunnies

I'm certainly too busy raising my son, working, tending to the dogs, the living space, the yard and saving democracy to worry about that shit - but it DOES need to be done.

:evilgrin:

[ZootSuitGringo]

22. LOL!

but honestly, the media IS killing us!

[Clark2008]

26. It is... and I'm trained media.

I would never have putz. I don't get their attitude. I was trained to believe that you ferret out facts, not spin.

Oh... I have something for you. Something I coined during the primaries. I think you'll get a kick out of it: http://www.geocities.com/scoop1_2/clarkendorsement.html

Heh. Tennesseee Rocks, and Countries and Blues!

[ZootSuitGringo]

30. Yes siree!

Tennessee is da bomb!

[Clark2008]

31. I'm in the wayback

Over in East TN.

Did you click on the link?

[ZootSuitGringo]

33. Now that's what I call

two kings in one shot!
Thank you for that.

[AP]

11. Dems need an umbrella framework that covers both FP and DP.

And it better be progressive.

[ZootSuitGringo]

14. Yup.

that was my point. It's like the MSM is trying to say we can't chew gum and walk at the same time. I think that's a better description for Republicans.

[madfloridian]

13. Well, it is a little exaggerated....but basically true.

It is the media wanting to divide us.....but it is true that Howard Dean would be strong on defense but in a way of getting back moral authority and honor to our country. He does not want to cut the military budget, just fix it.

Until we get the truth out about the lies about Iraq, no one will understand. Instead our Democrats have often agreed on it.

Whatever.

[ZootSuitGringo]

16. What is a little bit true?

They are saying that Howard Dean has a problem with Dems being strong on defense. They are saying that he is ready to cede national security to the Republicans. They are saying that the talk is that he wants to shut out General Clark, who frankly is the strongest Dem on this exact issue.

So what part of this mess is true?

[madfloridian]

28. Here.

"Seems the Clark and Dean teams have been warring over the future of the Democratic Party, and now that threatens to spill into the public if Dean, as expected, wins the chairmanship this Saturday."

This part is true.

Anyone with a sensible mind set knows dean will not cede defense to the Repubs. That is just to silly to think about.

Let it go public. Dean can handle it.

[ZootSuitGringo]

39. Why is that part true

but the other part not?

I think the whole article is trash myself.

[madfloridian]

41. I tell you what.

Go to MyDD and DailyKos and get a few opinions there of the tactics used. Make up your own mind. If the article says there is tension, then it is right. There is no reason for it, but it is not just going on here.

The other site is a very open site with few bannings and some good discussions. Same with Kos and MyDD. Tactics of some have been irritating.

[Clark2008]

44. I tell you what

Live in RL for five minutes.

I know moderates who voted for Shrub over Kerry on this issue, even though they think Shrub is an idiot.

The media has people scared, 9/11 has them scared.

The tactics you allege are?

[Tom Rinaldo]

91. Don't blame the messenger

Madfloridian is right. There have been real tensions. WE have seen it here at DU. Are they blown all out of proportion? Of course they are. Is there a deep split in the Democratic Party? Of course not. But the MSM is picking at the tid bits available to make a mountain out of a mole hill and MF is honestly stating that those tid bits were thrown to them. And if you don't think that rivalries exist at the highest level of virtually any organization than you aren't paying attention. Clinton and Gore served together for 8 years and look what happened between them. Gore picked Lieberman to be his Vice President (think about that one) in 2000 but backed Dean in 2004 to Jo Low's deep dismay.

But our Party is not divided. Look at the 2004 Kerry campaign on the heals of wide spread competition for the nomination. Clark and Dean fought on the same team behind Kerry and Edwards. We can stay unified, we just have to stop "feeding the animals" in the press with juicy scraps of discord.

[janx]

95. Incap, bless her heart, saw it and tried to stop it.

But those doing the trashing didn't listen to her. :shrug:

[Guaranteed]

54. mf, you actually agree with this?

This in particular:

Dean supporters "see domestic policy and issues like Social Security and the deficit as the keys to success."

Man, that's garbage. I think Dean feels the key is to confront the GOP on their bullshit national security image and destroy it.

[fujiyama]

84. I agree that it is nonsense

This whole "Dean is soft on national security" is a BS RW meme, partially spread by some in the Dem party itself (DLC).

Clark and Dean didn't differ that greatly on foreign policy. Dean supported Kosovo and both opposed the war in Iraq.

Clark has a vital role to play, and I'm sure Dean understands this.

[Clark2008]

15. I wrote this on the old thread (why was it tombstoned?)

To fix the party, we need both Clark and Dean - the muscle and the hustle.
The sword and the toward.
The love and the dove.
The hope and "the pope."
The might and the fight.
The thinker and "that stinker."
The dream and the scream.
The voice and the pulse, the grape and the mulce (yeah, look it up, it's a word)
The Id and the Ego, Dean's bid and Clark's Speedo.
The jinn and the genie
The Republicans are weinies.

[madfloridian]

17. Clever, he linked to the "other" site.

This time he just linked to the article. Well done.

[ZootSuitGringo]

20. Those links were part of the article.

if you go to the newspaper link in the top post, you'll see those links. I wasn't clever enough, because I didn't know that I had to remove what was in the article to be able to post the story.

[madfloridian]

24. But you are clever enough to post again without the link.

This is a fine article. It does not bother me. Howard Dean has worked his butt off for Kerry, and then for the campaign for chair. He truly cares about changing the party.

Wesley Clark is not running for anything right now. He is in business, lucratively, with agencies tied to Homeland Security. That is good, and he seems happy. So why are his supporters going after Howard Dean? Maybe this is a good thing...to point out what has been going on.

It is only a few, perhaps they will see what is happening here.

I am not worried because I am a good apple, not a bad one. I have been targeted by the few, and I will never back down again.

Our donations will double now, as we will give to both DFA and DNC gladly and freely. DFA has one role, DNC a broader one.

Thanks Howard Dean for being willing to take the flak and try to change the party.

[ZootSuitGringo]

27. Where are you getting this from?

So why are his supporters going after Howard Dean?

Actually, I checked out both sites, and I think that your question should be reversed.

But those are just bad apples. But Why do you think that this "fine" article is good? I said in my main post, I don't like it. I don't want the perception to be that there is a split in the party on this National Security issue.

To say that this is a fine article is pretty much missing the boat.

[madfloridian]

29. If you don't like it don't post it.

Nothing wrong with pointing out that Dean is the one running right now, not Clark...So why are his supporters involved at all?

[ZootSuitGringo]

32. Involved in What?

I don't understand you. Please make yourself clearer.

I post an article that basically reads different camps for Democrats. You call it a "fine" article. Then you start in on "why are "his" supporters involved at all? Involved in what? Dean has got the chairmanship. There's no one running against him. Hel-lo!

If you are interested in strong National Defense---->go here
If you are interested in strong domestic policies---->go there

That stinks to me. We can all -------> go here for full service.

A "fine" article indeed. Not.

[madfloridian]

35. A strong military and attacking innocent countries does NOT a strong.....

defense make. Bush is terrible on national security. He let us get attacked on his watch, he invaded the wrong country.

Clark people, not Clark, want to make it about troops and soldiers. Dean and most of us believe in a strong military to use in an honorable way.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZootSuitGringo]

47. Wow!

and that was the good guy?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

56. THAT'S our position.

And the Iraq war, like Clarke said, undermined the war on terror.

[ZootSuitGringo]

57. ?

Clark people, not Clark, want to make it about troops and soldiers
?????

[Skwmom]

58. A strong military to be used in an honorable way?

Like Clark supporters don't believe this? Furthermore, the support for Clark goes far beyond his military and national security credentials (try integrity, leadership, intelligence, and compassion for starters).

If the Dems can't shed their "Mommy Party" weak on national defense image, good luck on retaking the Whitehouse because the "national security" issue isn't going anywhere for a long time. By the way promising not to cut the defense budget (which by the way Clark believes should be cut by getting rid of the waste) isn't going to do it.

[Guaranteed]

59. I don't think that Clark supporters don't believe this.

The hesitation I have with Clark supporters is that some of them seem to want to rest everything on his military credentials- or credentials in general.

These positions and strategies, they are CORRECT. I'm aware the Clark understands them, as a general should. But that's what's important. I don't want to see another, "I'm John Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty." That won't work, and it didn't work.

If Clark would spell out the counter-attack strategy and let it be known that that is EXACTLY how he would run, I'd be a lot more comfortable with him.

[Crunchy Frog]

60. I think your sort of missing the point of this post.

The post is about how the corporate media is trying to pit different groups of Democrats against each other by encouraging them to see each other as being in conflict. I don't think this particular thread is the right place for trying to pick fights.

I think on this thread we could simply agree to disagree on who we will support for the future nomination, and save that battle for the myriad of other threads that it comes up on.

Whatever one may think about either man, I think most of us can agree that they both have great potential for valuable contributions to the Democratic party. I think we could also agree that the supporters of both men will work better in cooperation with one another on common goals than regarding one another as enemies and seeking to undermine each other.

We can discuss Clark's merits as a potential candidate elsewhere.

[Guaranteed]

62. Certainly, I understand what you're saying, and the OP.

I'm just putting that out there in terms that I think Clark supporters can agree with.

That being said, I'm also saying that I like Clark and I think that he AND his supporters know what needs to be done, as we've been discussing and showing.

[Crunchy Frog]

65. Thank you.

I've just been seeing so many threads degenerating into flame wars lately, and I didn't want to see it happen to this one. I expect it probably will at some point, but we can at least try to delay it for awhile longer.:)

[JI7]

21. lazy reporters

just sit around and check out a few blogs and try to make some big issue out of something that really isn't anything other than people expressing some thoughts at the moment.

[ZootSuitGringo]

23. Sad but true.

I don't like it that they are using this kind of stuff to inform people who don't know any better.

I think the media likes to attack both Howard Dean and General Clark, if you ask me. Guess they are the ones that the Repubs are scared of the most. They seem to couple them as often as possible, but always in a negative way. They are both working to the same end, and that's why I get pissed off.

I just joined one of those blogs, and there were a handful of haters, but most members didn't join in.

[Clark2008]

40. Yes, they do.

The cWHOREporate media likes to attack what they cannot control.
Clark and Dean supporters are very grassroots.

Oh...another tribute to welcome you (because you're new, you like Clark and you're a Tennessean with a cool name. Do you like The Who?)

I'm the hippiest number in town and I'll tell you why,
I'm the snappiest dresser right down to my inch wide tie,
And to get you wise I'll explain it to you,
A few of the things that a face is supposed to do.

I wear zoot suit jacket with side vents five inches long,
I have two-tone brogues yeah you know this is wrong.
But the main thing is unless you're a fool,
Ah you know you gotta know, yeah you know, yeah you gotta be cool.

So all you tickets I just want you to dig me,
With my striped zoot jacket that the sods can plainly see,
So the action lies with all of you guys,
Is how you look in the other, the other, yeah, the other cat's eye.

Well don't you see, well don't you see, well don't you see now,
Well don't you see now, come on baby, 'cause don't you see now, oh baby,
Well don't you see now, you drive me wild, hmm hmm hmm, you're crazy-looking now.

[ZootSuitGringo]

46. Rockin wt ya! Yeah.

you are the bearer of many gifts tonight. First a great pic, and now a great song. What can I say but thank you.

[Crunchy Frog]

34. Thank you for reposting this ZootSuit.

I think it's a very important thing for all Democrats, particularly the supporters of Dean and Clark, to be aware of. I notice people on DU every day trying to foment wars between the two camps, even though both sides have far more in common than they have differences. I kind of wonder about the motives behind such behavior.

It looks like the corporate media is now going to try and take advantage of that sort of thing to advance an agenda of trying to create splits among the Democrats where none need exist. I hope that people will see this for what it is and not allow themselves to be pawns in these people's games.

Thank you for bringing it to the attention of people here at DU.

[ZootSuitGringo]

43. No problem

That's why I didn't like this article. Because it is exploiding the discontent of a few who are probably just rotten to the core and acting like this is the trend. I have read many blogs and sites lately, and I don't find this to be the case. I had seen some of the nasty things in one of the sites mentioned in that article, but that's really the only place that I found it. Even on DU, I have not really seen much of that kind of thing. Maybe 3 or 4 posters at the most might like to do "hate".

the few Dems who are blogging negatively about either Doctor Dean or General Clark are lost souls with nothing to do. Maybe they have no personal life.

Both of these men are whoop-ass gems. Take them out of the equation, and you would be left with the same tired "voted for IWR" guys at the helm.

[ultraist]

49. There is infighting and it will be used against us

We really should be careful and refrain from making vicious attacks against fellow Democrats, publicly (ie on blogs).

I've seen plenty of this infighting. It's fine that we have candidates we support more than others, but trashing other candidates does NOT make our candidate look better.

I'm not suggesting we don't talk openly about issues and votes, but snide and derogatory comments make us all look bad. There's no need to engage in character assassinations of Democrats.

We are all on the same team.

[Crunchy Frog]

50. I completely agree with you on that score.

We need to keep the focus on the real enemy, the Republicans. We need to have a little tolerance for the fact that different Democrats are going to have different political figures that they admire, and different people that they are going to support for the nomination.

It doesn't help anyone to belittle or attack other's choices. At least it helps no one but the Republicans, who, as we can see, are only too eager to try and encourage division in our ranks.

[Skwmom]

61. So while the Republicans

are pushing certain Democrats for 08 we should remain silent and not discuss why these candidates would be such a disaster for the Democrats?

Bush sucked in the 2000 primary debates (polled Republicans found him the least qualified) but the republicans still chose him as their candidate because all they had heard for four years was Bush was the one who could retake the Whitehouse for the republicans. To remain silent while the republicans build up a Democratic candidate for 08 would be playing right into their hands.

[Zuni]

69. The thing is, most of us Clarkies

have a lot of faith in Dean. He is a good guy and a great organizer

[ticapnews]

51. The best thing about US News is that I get it for free and as a result...

when the GOP data monkeys run a profile, I am apparently a potential Republican supporter. This magazine subscription is the only thing I can think of that would put me on the GOP mailing list.

So last year I was inundated with mail from the RNC asking for my input on issues. Sadly, they didn't take any of my advice :( ;)

It has some interesting articles from time to time, and David Gergen is usually pretty good, but it's almost entirely right-wing hacks pushing an agenda.

[ZootSuitGringo]

53. Yep.

That "machine" is pretty effective. We really got to knock it down before the next primaries. I really think the media is controlling just about everything these days, and I don't like that at all. We've got to come up with a strategy to get them back in line.

In the meantime, we've got to stop talking negatively about our Democrats and start pulverizing the opposition. That's how my energy is going to be used for the next three years. When the primaries come, sure, ring the buzzer, but not now.

Dr. Dean and General Clark both have so much to offer us. Why only pick one, when we don't have to?

[Guaranteed]

52. Zoot- whoever wrote this doesn't know SHIT.

Don't worry about it. That's not anything near Dean's position on national security.

[ZootSuitGringo]

55. Didn't think so,

I really didn't, man. But it goes to show us that press likes to start shit, and they don't care where they find it.

[Skwmom]

63. They also want to make sure that Dean never

supports Clark as the 08 nominee. Since day one the media (and some of the Democratic party establishment) have tried to ensure that the Dean and Clark supporters (and Dean and Clark) never unite. This past election I was really amazed to find out how often certain Democrats and Republicans do unite and work together for a common goal.

[UL_Approved]

64. The Democrats need to sit down in a private meeting

and decide who will be Pres/VP.

Bush was strong because he had no in-party competition.

The Democrats need to do the same thing.

[Zuni]

67. I think Clark and Dean would make a balanced pair

One is a good domestic progressive while the other is experienced in diplomacy and military affairs.

[UL_Approved]

70. Populism + Foreign Policy/Security expertise

I was thinking the same thing exactly.

Dean/Clark 2008! :kick:

[Zuni]

71. I was more Clark/Dean

Or having Dean stay on as Chair of the DNC and having Clark, and either Barack Obama (an excellent speaker---great politician) or Martin O'Malley (the very popular Mayor of Baltimore and next Governor of Maryland) as his running mate.

[Old and In the Way]

116. That changes in 2008.

I think this will be the election that fractures the Republican hegemony. But I really hope we stay focused on 2006. I suspect that the MSM wants Democrats to conduct a 4 year primary fight and overlook wants really important: getting Democratic majorities in place in 2006.

As a Kerry supporter, I think Dean is a fantastic choice for the DNC chair and I love having Wesley Clark leading us on the national security/foreign policy point.

I think we'll see Wesley and Dean working together on many issues and I have no doubts that they will both be focused on job#1: getting rid of the criminals who occupy our government today.

[Zuni]

66. My 2 favorite candidates were Dean and Clark

In 2004, my top 2 picks were Clark and Dean.
I see no reason why National Security and Social Security are incompatable. I think both men are fine on both counts.
The Democrats are very strong on both issues---but have let the Republican noise machine call them weak on Defense. If people really looked at Democratic proposals on Defense, they would find they are just as strong as the GOP but more rational and sensible.

If the GOP thinks invading a country that presents no immediate threat is "strong" national security policy, then they are the ones who are weak on the issue. They also have strong links to terrorism supporters in Saudi Arabia and support Pakistan, the worst proliferator lately, as well as having a military and intelligence arm that were (and are) closely linked to Al Quaeda.

Protecting our borders, watching North Korea and Iran and Pakistan and working with allies to break up the Al Quaeda network and deny them another Taliban to sponsor them

[KittyWampus]

72. What A Steaming Pile. It's So Obvious What Mediawhore Are Doing

I heartily thank opening poster for this thread.

If there was ever any doubt that the Mediawhores are doing their damnedest to divide Democrats... this is it.

Dean, Clark, Kerry, Reid and Durbin are going to KICK ASS.

[ClayZ]

82. How about an add campaign to depict the Media

(especially those obvious ones) as just that. MEDIA WHORES, complete with BROTHEL, etc... Have the Johns be the Architects. I can see the video now. We could have the music be "the STRIPPER".

heh heh

[ticapnews]

97. What media outlets do you think would run such an ad?

They've already shown they are willing to drop paid advertising if it doesn't match their agenda.

So much for the public airwaves...

[Lefty48197]

73. What a waste of bandwidth that article was

Dean is most interested in domestic policies, and Clark is most interested in defense policies? Wow. That's a newsflash.
That's also some mighty good journalism there. Mighty good.

[union_maid]

74. Just checking in as a Clark AND Dean supporter

I'm thrilled to my shoes that Dean is going to lead the Dems. I'm hoping that Clark will run or at the very least remain a visible and influential figure.

No bullshit from the media is going to make me anything but happy that the last election cycle brought both of these men to national attention and major infuence in the Democratic party.

[WI_DEM]

75. your printing this gossip here doesn't help

nobody is quoted that in itself is a big warning sign--also Washington Whispers is not the most reliable.

[Crunchy Frog]

96. The whole point of this post was to point out

that this article is bullshit gossip. By writing about it, the OP is not agreeing with it or approving of it. Quite the contrary. Instead, he is using this as evidence that the media is trying to encourage conflict and division in the Democratic party by pretending that the words of a few anonymous internet posters are representative of "camps" of particular political figures, and the political figures themselves.

Pointing out the bullshit is not the same as endorsing the bullshit, and pointing out the tactics used by the media to try and divide us is very valuable in my opinion. Especially since so many of us are so ready to jump on anything that's said in the corporate media to advance our own little vendettas.

If he hadn't posted it, somebody else would have, very likely with the motivation of provoking a flame war between Dean and Clark supporters. There's been too much of that kind of provocation lately. This way the behavior of the media becomes the topic, and not the supposed, and probably imaginary conflict between the Dean and Clark "camps".

[mattclearing]

76. This is stupid.

What a bogus story. They were both against the war.

Clark can run on any message he wants to if he decides to run for office next time around.

And Dean sure didn't shy away from foreign policy, if I remember correctly.

You are right, this is just a lame attempt at starting some shee-it.

Let's try not to let it get to us.

I think most Dean and Clark fans are natural allies.

[sellitman]

77. This isn't Dean VS Clark

I am not a Clark fan at all but if he was selected to run in 2008 I would be the first to send him money and actively campaign for him. That being said I don't see anything wrong with policy differences and "jousting" as we proceed. It's healthy and it's part of being a Dem. We did a great job of uniting in the end with Kerry and that is all that matters.

[ananda]

78. non issue

This is a total non issue.

As chair of the DNC, Dean will raise money from the grass roots and make sure Dem voices are heard, all of them, and that -any- viable Dem candidate is supported properly.

The MSM can just go screw themselves on their own petard.

Sue

[Mark E. Smith]

80. I Am A Clark Supporter...

...and I can't begin to tell you how happy I am that Dean is leading the DNC. In 2006 and 2008 the Democratic party will be focused and heard, and what could be better than that?

If only Dean had been the DNC chief in 2004...

[McCamy Taylor]

81. Agree, non issue, Dems united by disdain for * administration.

[fujiyama]

83. I think these splits

are exagerrated.

Clark and Dean did have some nasty primary attacks thrown each others' ways, but I don't think they were all that far apart in FP - both opposed the war after all.

Clark can be a major asset to the party and we need him out there discussing fp issues especially.

I'm sure Dean won't overlook this. From everything I've heard and seen Dean will do his best to reach out on all issues - fp and domestic. I wish him the best.

[DaveinMD]

85. Most Clark supporters I know

were hoping for a Dean chairmanship, myself included. Pure BS.

[janx]

90. There is a valuable lesson to be learned from this.

Gossip columnists can and do read public internet forums of all kinds.


IF YOU POST IN A PUBLIC FORUM OF ANY KIND, BE AWARE THAT YOUR POST IS PUBLIC.

This gossip column came to my attention yesterday, and I was very dismayed. It was clear that the columnist had been reading a blog around the 9th of this month and was "reporting" what he saw there.

We can't trust our regular media these days, let alone gossip columnists. It only took some posts by a few people to get this moron's attention, and he used what he saw to try and cause division.

[Adelante]

92. Letter to the Editor: US News & World Report

To the Editor:

The February 9 entry for "Washington Whispers" takes the cake in shoddy when it dips into blogs for a Dean-Clark war. Whatever you're paying for this Drudge-type content is far too much. A more lazy approach, even to gossip mongering, is hard to imagine.

Internet blogs are open discussions, electronic town halls, where anybody can get up and say anything they please. To cherrypick any blog discussion, looking for some nugget of useless chatter, just to give the impression Democrats are divided is the easiest game on earth. I could do the same on Republican blogs in five minutes. In any blog discussion there are differing opinions on any given subject, usually many of them. Surely, there could have been found, had there had been the will, Clark and Dean bloggers who say the opposite.

No two Democrats are expected to think in lockstep and freedom of expression is an American moral value Democrats hold dear. I couldn't tell you if Gen. Clark and Chairman Dean are "warring" over the future of the Democratic Party, but I tend to doubt it. Wesley Clark is greatly concerned with domestic issues such as education, health care and Social Security. Howard Dean is greatly concerned with national security and foreign policy. Neither have "teams" of "associates" spending their time blog-wrestling; Gen. Clark is not one to be "marginalized"; and the last thing Howard Dean is interested in is disunity among Democrats.

What you do have on Democratic blogs are individual Americans expressing openly and frankly their own interpretations of events of the day, their own hopes for their country, their own fears for the future.

And nobody tells them to shut up!

What a great country. What a great Democratic Party.

Sincerely,

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/usinfo/infomain.htm

[Sparkly]

94. That's a *great* letter!!

I hope this tactic of blog-dipping doesn't become routine in the MSM.

[Crunchy Frog]

111. It's becoming more and more routine

DU was recently a victim of it with respect to discussions about the tsunami. Internet boards provide very easy pickings for "journalists" who are too lazy to do any sort of real investigating themselves. And you can find people on the internet saying absolutely anything, so you can find evidence to support absolutely any point that you want to try to make.

In other words, its a gold mine for lazy pseudo-journalists.

[ChiciB1]

93. Seems Like The Media Is At It Again!!

Let's ALL prove them WRONG!!! I just finished watching Dean accept the Chairmanship and I'm Sooooooo Proud to be a Democrat!!

I'm a Liberal, but I can accept Clark too. He was never HIGH on my list, however if he keeps "punching" he will be a BIG PLUS to OUR Party!

Personally, had it not been for DU I don't think Howard Dean would have been Chairman. So for all of us, The Real Grassroots... a BIG HURRAY!! I think we really got the message out, especially to many of the DLC!! But DLC or not, we are the Party of the BIG Tent and we want everyone to be a part of our "movement" to take America BACK!!!!!

[sunnystarr]

98. They know Dean doesn't set the Dem policy ...

So this is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent and undermine Dems. We need to have an attack team ready to pounce, denounce and expose this bs.

[Kahuna]

100. Right. Dean has made a point of saying his job is not to set the policy..

This is just pure bullshit. It's really just written to take up space because, I doubt that it will be read by enough people to cause any friction either way. Just another hack job by a dumb gossip hound.

[Paradise]

101. I'm a Clark gal who may not have been anything, but for Dean! :) n/t

[WesClarkJr]

103. Total BS

More MSM garbage. There is no fight going on over Foreign Policy versus Domestic in the Democratic party. I find it interesting that U.S. News wants to paint some kind of disagreement over the war when both Dean and Dad were against the war in Iraq from the beginning (unlike our candidates in November).

I think Howard Dean is the right man to lead the Democratic Party now as he's one of our only national politicians that isn't a mamby pamby constantly apologizing for his beliefs.

[Adelante]

104. Hey, WesJr

Nice to see you :hi:

[Sopianae]

105. Thanks for your insight!

Good to see you here. :hi:

[ICantBelieve]

106. Thank you, sir, jr...

Thanks for stopping by. That's great to hear. Some anonymous was over at CCN last night trying to get us to attack Clinton too. We didn't bite.

[Clark2008]

107. Well, I think that answers that.

The lazy media's been one-upped. Again.

[RetroLounge]

108. Thanks for this post and welcome to DU!

Every Dean supporter I know supports respects General Clark, and vice versa.

The MSM will try to divide us, but will fail.

RL

[Tom Rinaldo]

109. Exactly

I always love to see you here Wes, Thank You once again.

[trillian]

110. Thank you Wes Jr.

Feeling much better now!

:party:

[BAP_n_Milwaukee]

112. The reason why....

There is an effort to cause division between the Dean and Clark camps and thats only natural. I mean your dad and Governor....excuse me, Chairman Dean, opposed each other in 2004. The point is, they came together afterwards and worked together. There are diehards for both candidates, like my boss, who supports your father to the "Nth" degree and shies away from Dean. Just check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wesley_clark_2008

But like I told him, it's time to focus on the party and work together as a team, which he agrees with me on.

As for the lies put out, everyone knows your father opposed the war. To say your father is for war, just because he's a General, is to say I like collard greens, fried chicken, and watermelon just because I am African-American.

K

[Kahuna]

113. Welcome to DU!!!!!

:hi: :hug: :toast: :bounce:

[Adelante]

114. Welcome to DU, BAP_n_Milwaukee

:hi:

[robbedvoter]

115. Thanks for calling the BS, Zoot Suit! MSM is trying to ride us like

they did in the primaries and marginalize us all by inventing either/or choices (national security or domestic issues). of course, unlike their addled figurehead, Dems can walk and chew gum at the same time and even tale care of both defense and economic issues of this country. Like they always did.
So, I'll take this opportunity to invite the whisperers in DC: