What happened to Saddam's Air Force?

[burythehatchet]

If you recall prior to the commencement of hostilities during gulf war 1, the prequel, Saddam flew his best fighter jets to Iran. Quite a surprising manouver considering they had been at war for a decade.

Does anyone know what became of those jets? Did Iran keep them?

[htuttle]

1. They defected -- Saddam didn't send them. Then Iran kept them

But they were crappy planes in bad shape (no spare parts, remember).

I think all of them were scrapped. Iranian pilots really pasted the Iraqi air force during the Iran/Iraq war, and they didn't have much respect for them or their planes.

[burythehatchet]

2. gotcha

do you have a source?

[htuttle]

4. Just my impeccable memory

Google would probably help to find a link.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. Search "Janes, all the worlds Air Forces"

Janes Group out of England is the definitive source for warmaking capabilities and armament

http://www.janes.com

[LynnTheDem]

38. Iraqi Warplanes Flee to Iran

The first big turning point in Operation Desert Storm came when the Iraqi pilots began to flee rather than fight. Before the war was two weeks old, Iraq's Soviet-and French-trained flyers began to decamp to Iran, eventually taking 150 fighters and transports with them.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/perspectives/desert_storm/0691voices.asp

In the Persian Gulf War (1991), Iran remained officially neutral, but provided refuge for more than 100 Iraqi warplanes, which it later seized.

http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/Iran20Century.html

More warplanes and ships have taken refuge in Iran.

General Schwarzkopf said: "The simple fact of the matter is that now every time an Iraqi airplane takes off the ground it is running away, as a result have now claimed air supremacy."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/30/newsid_2506000/2506001.stm

Jan 28, 1991: The US military reported that more than 60 Iraqi fighter-bombers had taken refuge in Iran, where they were impounded by the Iranian government.

http://timelines.ws/20thcent/1991A.HTML

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Iran Pasting The Iraqi Air Force Is Like Pee Wee Herman Pasting Paulie

Shore...

[flamin lib]

3. A lot of them were buried in the desert.

Literally buried. Some were wrapped in plastic and sealed, some just had sand heaped on them and are useless.

He never was a threat to anyone. Bush 41 destroyed his armor and Saddam did the same with his air force. Over the years of no-fly every time one of his SAM sites turned its radar on one of our HARMs would destroy it.

He was helpless.

[ladjf]

5. He was also crazy and stupid. We have paid lives and money

to unseat a guy was was no danger to us.

[Vermonster]

8. BURRIED?!!

Wow, that's amazing!! They were able to hide entire squadrons of planes in the desert?!! Makes you wonder what else they could have hidden out there.

[burythehatchet]

16. holy shit you think the WMD's are there????? OMFG!!

didn't any of you supposedly bright DUers think of that. I'm really starting to question our liberal bias.

[txaslftist]

19. None of the Duers thought of it....

..and apparently neither did any of our vaunted intelligence agencies, our state department, our president, our various Cabinet officials, the Iraqi defectors, the prisoners we've tortu...interrogated...

Gee whiz. :tinfoilhat:

...good thing we have ever vigilant posters to think of the possibilities that no one else on the planet ever considered...

[Igel]

35. Yeah, buried. They took off the wings and buried

them in the desert near some freeways.

[rman]

37. so we know where they are but we can't find m?

or you know where they are but Rummy doesn't?

interesting

[LynnTheDem]

36. Uh huh.

Something makes me wonder, all right.

Maybe more of those thousands of Iraqis American forces buried alive by bulldozing over them.

[Gyre]

6. Irrelevant.

They never had much of an AF.

[Vermonster]

7. Compared to OURS

Not compared to ours, no- but they did have the largest in the Middle East up till Operation Desert Storm.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. The IDF Is The Has The Best Air Force In The M E

even prior to Desert War 1...


They are like 300-3 including two Rusian piloted planes during the 70's....

[DistantWind88]

14. He said "largest" not best

The IDF/AF is maybe the second best in the entire world.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. They Had The Third Largest Military In The World Prior To Gulf War 1

based on tanks, planes, and armaments...


What crappy fighters they are....

[burythehatchet]

17. What crappy fighters they are....

what do you base that on? The fact that they decided to melt away rather than risk getting a cruise missle shoved up their ass by a dude sitting in a jet?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. When Was The Last Time An Arab Army Beat A Non Arab Army Or A

Persian Army For That Matter?


I think even the most unbiased observer would say Arab Armies haven't fared very well since Saladin pushed back the Crusaders in the 12th century....

[burythehatchet]

24. What was the outcome of Afghanistan Vs. USSR?

Yes the US provided material assistance, but they were still fighting from caves.

Historically the greatest warriors are mountain dwelling people who have survival skills beyond our imagination. The Sikhs of India, the Ghurkas of Nepal, the Afghani fighters.

You see, we don't actually fight people, we just kill them. That's technology taking the place of actual battle. The battle only takes place when the force we project is closer to the human level.

[DistantWind88]

26. The Afghans became Arabs,

when?

[burythehatchet]

28. welcome to the discussion

let me know when you have something to contribute.

[DistantWind88]

30. Let me know when you learn the difference

between an Afghan and an Arab.

[burythehatchet]

31. will do

bye
:hi:

[DistantWind88]

33. I'll alert the media

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Techincally Afghans Are Not Arabs But You Can Include Them..

And I think the Soviet Union rolled over Afghanistan in ten days or so but the United States and Saudi backed mujahadeen bled them dry..


I am sure there are certain peoples who distinguish themselves as fierce fighters but that advantage pales in the face of a technical edge...


Mike Tyson could dispatch of me in five seconds but if I have a Uzi I could make him my bitch....

[burythehatchet]

32. Well that's exactly the point

I don't believe we can say that Tyson is not a good fighter because you were able to dispatch him with your Uzi

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Your Point Is A Valid One...

I am far from a military historian but I am aware that throughout history certain groups of people have distinguished themselves as fierce fighters...


That being said, Iraq was armed to the teeth in Gulf War One and performed miserably....

I forgot the numbers but they had over 600 jets, 1,000 tanks, and a 1,000,000 man army and those weapons were of relatively new Russian and French vintage...

Iraq also had a relatively sophisticated air defense which was purchased from and built by the Russians...

It sure seems that an armed forces of that size could withstand more than thirty six hours of sustained fighting...

Also, look at how poorly Iraq fared against Iran.. Saddam thought Iran was a pushover because of the disarray caused by the Iranian Revolution and the purging of many of the Shah's top generals...

[txaslftist]

20. Not that crappy...

...they had the intelligence to melt into civilian garb when faced with overwhelming air superiority and superior armor...

...and now they're still alive and we're trying to hire them back...

...I'd have to call that savvy, not crappy. Knowing which way the wind is blowing is the soldier's best trait.

[DistantWind88]

22. Well the DID fail in their reason for being

They allowed their country to be occupied and their government to be ousted. Seems to me that meets the definition of "crappy."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. They Were Armed To The Teeth Prior To Gulf War One..

Yes, they were fighting the "world" but a competent military would have inflicted a lot more pain on the militaries that liberated Kuwait...


What kind of idiot allows their enemy to build up over a course of serveral months a 600,000 man force to attack...

[DistantWind88]

27. A defeated

one?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. See The Above Post...

I don't think any of the Arab armies have done anything to distinguigh themselves in the past nine or ten centuries...


Prowess on the battle field is a function of training, strategy, and technology ; all areas that the Arab armies are lacking in...

I am not commenting on the valor or lack of valor displayed just their operational abilities...

[jarab]

11. And on a further note, what happened

to the loudly reported number of "body doubles" who had undertaken reconstructive surgeries in order that Saddam could not be targeted successfully?
...O...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I Never Bought That...

Sounded like the proverbial crock of shit...

[Roland99]

18. Still buried in the sand.

Guess those sand-clogged engines were going to drop bombs over America in about 45 min.