Dean's "out of control" outburst was wisely calculated.

[Jim Sagle]

After Dean's "angry" rant, he flashed a big smile. So much for being out of control.

I believe this was calculated. After the big caucus fix (see the Salon Table Talk Dean thread for details), he could've been sober and subdued, and the media whores would've chorused, "He's defeated, and he's washed up."

Or he could've been objective and mildly upbeat, and the media whores would've chorused, "He's whistling in the dark, and he's washed up."

Instead he drew a line in the sand. He let everyone know he isn't giving up.

He let everyone know he isn't scared.

He let everyone know he intends to win.

[jpgray]

1. It was a brief embarrassing moment--no need to rationalize it

Dean isn't defined by one clip--his campaign will move on.

[jsw_81]

8. If Dean should win the nomination...

Rove will make sure that Dean is defined by that clip, and Bush will win a landslide.

[caledesi]

10. Excuse me, but there is ton of stuff of * making a fool out of

himself and Dean will win in a landslide. For example, remember when * was in Poland and said that they found the WMDs?

[jsw_81]

20. Bush is an idiot, but he'd never pull a stunt like the one Dean pulled

Dean should have congratulated the winners and pledged to move forward, but instead we got a WWF announcer.

[IADEMO2004]

31. Bush doesn't know that many states

[Jim Sagle]

11. I'm not rationalizing - just telling it like it is.

[stopbush]

28. I fear Dean - the unscripted candidate - allowed his handlers to

script him into last night's over-the-top performance.

I have nothing to back this up, but I got the feeling that Dean was trying oh so hard to look upbeat at the urging of his campaign managers. "What ever you do, don't look angry, disappointed or pissed at coming in third. Smile, smile, smile. Rouse the troops!" He pasted his worst pasted-on smile on, rolled up his sleeves and ended up looking bad. In a way, it was very unlike Howard Dean, at least the Dean who gave the same measured speech in NH today that I've seen him give on the stump.

Wouldn't it be tragic if the self-proclaimed "unscripted candidate" ended up losing the nominating process due to the one scripted performance he agreed to?

[beaconess]

33. That's exactly the impression I had

I don't think he was really all that angry - he just seemed to be playacting mad, tough and optimistic all at the same time and it failed miserably. I agree that the smile looked very plastered on (I think last night was the first time I'd ever seen his uppers) and he ended up just coming across weird. And, given the way he's approached his campaign in the past, I find it hard to believe that this was his idea. My impression is that this is one of the few times he acquiesced to his handlers {"Don't forget to SMILE and SING OUT, Governor, SING OUT!"} and will pay handsomely for it.

The contrast in his performance today reminded me of the first 2000 debate when Gore was so aggressive toward Bush that people complained. So, the next debate, he seemed like he had just come from an electroshock therapy session which, far from earning him any credit fo his change in tone, only left him open to more criticism for having no idea who he is.

As folks here know, I'm no fan of Howard Dean. But the more I see this video, the sorrier I feel for him. He seemed like a man who didn't know what to do or how to respond to something that he had never dealt with before - an electoral defeat - so he did what he was told - and blew it big time.

[Dookus]

2. well then it was a very poor calculation....

he should've realized that the night of the first caucuses would be covered heavily by the media, and that a lot of people would be seeing Dean speak for the first time.

I'm afraid that speech didn't make a very good first impression. If you're already a supporter of his, I guess it was fine, but for somebody just tuning into the primaries, it confirmed all the negative impressions being put out there about him.

[maggrwaggr]

41. the more I see it, the more I like it

He looks like he's having a good time, not letting the defeat bother him.

He seems very human.

Remember this is a guy who jumped onto a moving pickup truck in the middle of a crowd and disappeared one day, just for the hell of it.

[pnziii]

3. Dean all the way to the WH

I'll admit that's a side I haven't seen, but then again I haven't seen much. I have checked his record and it's better than the rest. I will ONLY support Dean.

[bigwillq]

7. What if Dean doesn't get the nod?

As a fellow DEM, I think it'll be for the best of the party for you to support the candidate who does get the nod. As a fellow Dean supporter, thanks for sticking with the Dr.

[jmaier]

4. That's a different interpretation

I have no doubt that it was to some degree 'calculated'. It was a political pep rally! On the other hand, I don't think Gov Dean really needed a 'line in the sand' moment. His opponents know that he isn't going away and so does the media.

What he really needed was an overture to a larger voting base in the primaries and that he didn't achieve. Instead he's garnering tons of unnecessary negative press coverage and even some bad buzz among his own BFA cadre.

So the question is: calculation or miscalculation?

[jsw_81]

5. It was a HUGE mistake

If you think that this was "calculated" or smart, you're in denial.

I have been a strong Dean supporter for several months now, but after seeing last night's tirade, I am strongly considering switching my vote to John Kerry. Dean isn't ready for prime time. He blew it.

[Jim Sagle]

12. No, I'm not in denial.

[jsw_81]

21. Whatever

:eyes:

[dorktv]

22. I screamed myself hoarse watching his speech. He was

passionate and the man I have been volunteering to get in the white house for 12 months. If you think that was bad maybe you do not really want a fighter.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

6. Yep, if fits right into his plan to lose badly in the caucuses.

It also dovetails nicely with his plan to drop into a statistical tie with Kerry in New Hampshire even before the Iowa vote.

Yep, it's all part of Dean's brilliant master plan.

[peacetalksforall]

9. I'm somewhat supportive of all the candidates...

I'm supportive of anyone who did not vote for the killing...
and I'm against Leiberman because he leans right plus loves the killing.

So......I'm neutral about Dean - but I thought his speech and voice level last night (though surprising) was full of energy and resolve - AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - IT IS JUST WHAT SAD and SUBMISSIVE Dem leaders don't have enough of. Yeah for Dean. I think he helped all the candidates and I only think they will get off their slightly boring dimes, is because of Dean.

I wish he could present the post-sotu speech by Dems tonight - I hope the post-sotu won't be as dull and blah as usual.

Thank you Dean - you helped everyone - sadly the media is never going to let the country forget his exuberance - they are going to push this like the lies about Gore lies and the color of Gores' shirts.

[sangha]

13. Calculated or out of control? I don't know which is worse

If it was calculated, it was a terrible calculation because I don't think Dean gained anything from that speech, and it seems he's lost some support because of it.

[auburnblu]

14. Wisely calculated if trying to accomplish 1 of 3 things

1. If he wanted to hype up New Hampshire like the Rock would hype up we're on the road to wrestlemania, it really did sound like a wrestler on Smackdown talking about beating somebody when they got to the pay per view.

2. He wanted to convince people he really does believe faith should be in the campaign and he can give any Hellfire and brimstone Southern Baptist preacher a run for their money, because he was talking like a really, really fired up preacher.

3. He wanted to convince everyone that he is even better at crazy fired up speeches than Ted Kennedy. Watching John Kerry's post caucus event, Ted was going crazy, but no match for Dean.

If he was trying to convince voters that had just watched a strong Edwards speech that he seemed in touch and in control. Hmmmmmmm.

[beaconess]

26. Or maybe he wanted to brush back all opposition

by making them say, "Whatever you do, don't mess with Howard - That motherf**ker's CRAZY!"

[arewethereyet]

15. almost as clever as purposely coming in a distant 3rd in Iowa

to put his campaign worker's feet to the fire and really get them fired up !

[MikeG]

16. I want a candidate who will not provide a target-rich environment

for the right-wing attack machine.

[Jim Sagle]

17. If such a candidate ever comes along, let us know.

[Spirochete]

18. There's no such thing.

If nothing else, they'll just make a bunch of stuff up, put it out on THEIR media 24/7. SOP for them.

[peacetalksforall]

19. They invent reasons for targeting...

How many times did you hear about Gores' shirts?

How many lies did they deliver about his failing a religious college?

Lies about his 'lies' continue to this day.

They lied about his lies and laughed at his shirts and big neck because they didn't have anything else. Gore's family life was in order. They knew he had a brain, authored a technical and revealing book about an important subject, and was praised by scientists. They crucified him.

The talking points contained all the instructions to the media.

They're going to do it again.

Because they demand only perfection from Dems.

[Guaranteed]

40. That's why we have to hit back. nt

[Guaranteed]

39. LOL may I suggest the right-wing robot

that I mentioned last night?

This campaign is going to be a knock-down, drag-out fight. If you think that by supporting a candidate that's as much like Bush as possible you're going to have a better chance of winning, you've got another thing coming. Hitch up your skirt, grab your balls, and fight.

[Jackhammer Jesus]

23. It most certainly was calculated.

Just wait and see. Next week, "Demolition Dean" going to challenge Kerry to a cage match.

"YAULP!"

[fshrink]

24. I agree with you that it was calculated.

Gore also lost because of his lack of fire. It's way better to display that fire at this relatively innocuous stage of the campaign than later. It was actually exactly the right time to do it. If Dean now speaks like an accountant until November, people will not forget his fire. It is smart.

[ecstatic]

30. The media attacked Gore for being too "boring"

You can never win with "this crowd."

Either way, Dean is still the man of the hour. It seems as though the media is much more interested in Dean's "loss" and "outburst" than they are with Kerry.

[Piperay]

25. Dean's timing

was perfect, this whole thing will end up buried under the chimp's State of the Union address.

[Jerseycoa]

27. That does it

Now I have heard everything.

[NashVegas]

29. Now That I've Watched the Whole Thing

(after listening it to it last night)

I don't think it was calculated. But I certainly don't think it was the sturm undt drang everyone's claiming. The guy was laughing fer chrissakes.

[youngred]

32. no such thing as bad publicity

and he stole all the buzz from Kerry and edwards

[Mz Pip]

34. Either way

it was a mistake. If he was "faking it" it was a mistake. If it was for real it was worse.

He may not be scared but I suspect he scared off more than few potential supporters.

MzPip
:dem:

[SadEagle]

35. Calculated? Who knows. Wise? Perhaps. Admirable? Yes.

You know, what seems to be lost along all the noise is that what Dean actually did. Think about it. He is supposedly a big, stuffy, politician, but he is not afraid of looking silly trying to cheer up a group of supporters, most of them half his age. In my book, this takes a lot more courage than acting like the rest of them do. And is worth a lot more, too. For if someone is not willing to look silly for you, how much can you really count on them?

And besides, all this talk of dignity is in substance nonsense. There is no more dignity in suits and ties than there is in robes and crowns. There is no such thing as dignity of office. There is no such thing as dignity of scripted speech. These are all layers of puff that hide the true issue. There only two places where true dignity resides: one's heart and one's actions. And I would much rather call that person dignified who cuts off all the obfuscation,
who is not afraid of standing clearly by who he is, flaws and all, than one who would cloud himself in concentric circles of walls, and would say the outer one is who he is. If there is one thing this spin reminds me is a mock outrage of an upper class looking at the "coarse" manners of a plebeian.

Is openness, unscriptedness good politics? Perhaps not. But I sure yearn for the time when substance matters.

[fshrink]

36. Well said.

[angee_is_mad]

37. lol, come on

you really don't think that! Is that the spin Trippi is handing out for you all to say?

[dreissig]

38. No Effect Whatsoever

I don't think enough people saw it to make a difference one way or the other. People really don't care about politics. Even if Karl Rove plays clips of this over and over, it won't change anybody's mind.