Could we please stop "piling on," with all the Dean posts?

[hlthe2b]

On behalf of many of our DU colleagues that are experiencing some disappointment today and need time to regroup a bit?

While I remain uncommited and have not been specifically leaning towards Dean, I am appalled at the volume of Dean posts today-- many duplicative and most suggesting 1. he's dead in the water; 2. multiple on the "horrendous" post caucus speech; 3. the angry man; etc., etc. Is it any wonder that so many Dean supporters are reacting angrily and feeling like the rest of DU have singled them out?

The next candidate to suffer major disappointment may be one you or I favor. In the interest of future unity, can we just back off a little? At least for today?

(click of heels as she steps off her soapbox......)

[Joe the Revelator]

1. With all due respect...

This is politics. When a front runner "implodes" like some argue Dean did yesterday then there needs to be discussion about it. In my opinion, I've yet to see a thread that bashes Dean in an unwarranted way.

[Melodybe]

5. If Dean doesn't change things now those things will be true

I love the man but with a little knowledge of how the TV effect the average Joe Blow if he doesn't change now we are dead!

[hlthe2b]

7. I agree in principle, but if you've been watching since last night........

I am NOT suggesting these issues not be discussed. What I am saying is that there are so many duplicative threads on the speech for instance, and some other RWer's take on the speech, yada yada yada. Then multiple duplicative threads on how he dead is as a candidate, yada yada yada.

That's the point. I'm NOT trying to be a pollyanna. I am saying that we would do well to keep discussion cordial. I'd like not to see another Dem-Green split like we saw in 2000 and I think we can prevent this by showing a little respect and sensitivity.

[BurtWorm]

11. Well said.

Unfortunately, Dean bashing--and running to Drudge to do it--has become well-ingrained in some quarters. It will be very difficult for some people, especially those with untested candidates, to restrain themselves.

[Melodybe]

19. I am trying to kick my fellow Deaniacs in the ass to help them

understand what we are doing wrong. This is the problem we have to fix it.

[bearfartinthewoods]

33. you could use the ignore thread option..might help

btw...from what i'm hearing, dean has done a good job of getti8ng back on track today.

[hlthe2b]

36. Well sure, but I'm not the one directly impacted by these...

as I'm not (at least at this time) a primary Dean supporter. And while all is probably fair game at other times (within Skinner's Rules & Regs), right after a group has suffered a major setback is probably a good time to focus on our own candidates performance and plans.

The people we avoid offending by being sensitive now, could well be the most active supporters--, who could do the most legwork to bring in new DEM voters-- and mean the difference in the success of the eventual nominee against Bush.

Not a pollyanna, but rather a PRAGMATIST....

[cthrumatrix]

2. the front runner is Kerry and Edwards...let's focus there

[Frodo]

13. Not even close.

I could run with any of these guys, so don't take this the wrong way, but Dean is still the solid favorite.

That may change, but remember that we use a proportional system now, so Kerry didn't "win" the state yesterday, just a few more delegates than Edwards and a few more than that over Dean.

But Dean has a solid lead among the superdelegates (whose votes also count) and you need a majority to win without a floor fight. Clark/Dean could do well in NH then Edwards/Clark in SC etc. etc. etc...

We could be in for a long (and costly) run here

[dsc]

3. thank you

frankly I know whose supporters have been doing this and whose haven't. All I can say is that if that candidate wins they will be getting some profiles in the mail when they ask for money. I don't have a lot to come and go on so every penny counts. No money for candidates whose supporters act the way these people have.

[Beaker]

12. "No money for candidates whose supporters act the way these people have"

you mean the way that all those...extra-confident...Dean supporters have acted...? Up until last night, that is...:evilfrown:


The Dean Campaign meets it's first public test in Iowa:
:nuke:
:puke:
:hurts:
:scared:
:nopity:

[dsc]

16. go ahead and site where I have done any of the following

all of which your candidates supporters have done

called the wife of your candidate ugly
assail said wife's work habits
assail said wife's not being on the campaign
assail said wife for leaving patients (on a Sunday) when she did campagin
post right wing lies about your candidate on every issue under the son
call yourstorm troopers

[funky_bug]

23. Can I go on record as apologizing for the lot of them?

I am embarrassed when any DU'er comes up with those things you mentioned. I realize many were weeded out when the new GD rules were in place, but I see it from all supporters, Clark and otherwise. I can't go on record as apologizing for the others, but if I could, I'd like to go on record as saying this Clark supporter wants to follow her candidate's lead.

Please accept my apology on behalf of the gloating lot. They do not represent the whole. Perhaps just a few with buckshot still in their rumpus, and such...

Robin

[hlthe2b]

28. Thank you, Wife of Wes..... While I'm not yet committed....

I share your embarrassment at blatant tactics such as this, no matter who the candidate of choice, no matter who the intended recipient...

[dsc]

30. thank you

I have to say that Kerry and Edwards have gone way up in my eyes due to their supporters not doing this. I can't say the same for Clark. I know it isn't all, and I hope it isn't most, but there have been many, many of them who have been insulting and ungracious. I had the temerity to critise aspects of the Caucus (all but one either helped Dean or were neutral) and I was all but called a hypocritical liar. And every last one of those people were Clark supporters.

Again, the gracious supporters have been great but the others have been terrible.

[funky_bug]

39. I saw your post

And responded to it. I'm a STRONG supporter of Clark's and I was aghast at the caucus. How is that "every vote counts?" The only candidate that was viable was Kerry. If everyone there had cast their vote, only one ticket would have been punched... but then the horse trading began. I could not contain my amazement...no, make that astonishment. The ONLY one I really identified with was the Kucinich kid who would NOT trade his vote (even if it was to keep poor Gephart viable). He believed in his right to stand in whatever corner he wanted to.

I do absolutely agree that the caucus was flabberghasting. But I hear they like it that way. It reminds me of a quote I read about the IA caucus...

"Do you get to vote behind a curtain? NO! You have to tell everyone in the room who your voting for. Talk about peer pressure! 'My mommy says your daddy voted for Bradley, so you can't play with us'"

It's okay... this too shall pass. The battlefield at GD is littered with the ghosts of past insults... and I think we're all really thin skinned these days.

[edzontar]

44. Thank you, gentle lady.

For your eloquence and humanity.

You do yourself and your candidate proud.

[hlthe2b]

17. Perhaps so, but how does it help your (or my) candidate....

to kick Dean's supporters when they are down? Why not put the effort into putting forth your own candidate in a positive way, instead?

Wouldn't you like to hold open the door that would allow all disappointed supporters of candidates-- ultimately not receiving the nomination-- to come together to help you elect the nominee, whoever that might be?

[PretzelWarrior]

4. well, what do you expect? All eyes were on him. He provided an

interesting sound bite. Media presence is very powerful to the positive or the negative. What are you expecting? There is nothing you can do about people's perception regarding Dean. It's there. People discuss it. There are many other posts where people are heartened by Dean's 3rd place and ready for a #1 performance in NH.

It's just a part of the process. Think about the followers of Lieberman and Gephardt. They had the most name recognition as recently as 2002 of any in this field and are history.

[elperromagico]

6. Tucker Carlson and the other conservatives are hammering at him too.

If we think it's rough when we come after each other, wait until we have a nominee.

I really think we need to go through this just to realize how tough it's going to be in the general election. We're all going to be upset at one point or another before this is over.

[Jerseycoa]

You're right

There is reason enough for a discussion given the events of last night, but a thread or two should suffice.

[mistertrickster]

8. Thanks for that hlthe2b -- This WAS a significant setback for us Deaniacs

and I'd appreciate a little breathing room rather than the "ha ha, your guy sucks" that I hear going on . . .

The thing everybody keeps forgetting is that if Dean hadn't come out with both barrels firing, how many of the other Democrats would have followed him in calling the Bush regime what it is?

I don't remember Mr. Gephart calling Bush a "miserable failure" when the vote was taken on going to war with Iraq.

[Democrats unite]

9. My candidate has been attcked relentlessly...

And we take it. If people can't stand the heat, they need to get out of the kitchen!

[youngred]

32. pretty ironic for someone named democrats unite

just a thought

[Democrats unite]

35. And so we shall after the Primaries.

Now theres a thought.

[hlthe2b]

37. glad to hear that, DemU

[Walt Starr]

38. Nope, no uniting for me

I cannot forgive and forget the bullshit that has gone on here. I won't.

Count me out.

[youngred]

42. yawn

:eyes:

[Democrats unite]

43. Please correct me If I am wrong...

You won't unite because of what happened here, that has noting to do the the candidates themselves?

[hlthe2b]

46. May I just ask you, Walt...

Why would you let the transgressions of some political forum posters influence your decision on what role to play in a national election. The opposing candidate's supporters that have caused you heartache, are at best a very small minority of this forum and that candidates' supporters, but even more significantly, a miniscule representation of American people. Why, assuming just for the moment that Dean is not the nominee, would you determine not to work towards removing Bush, even if the alternative is not your personal best choice as your contribution to the country? Why would you want to let some annoying behavior on behalf of some of the other candidate's supporters influence your decision?

My questions are as sincere as I can make them. While Dean may well surge tomorrow, things are a little disappointing for you and your fellow supporters now. But, I am just trying to understand why you would feel it necessary to let a very few (probable idiots) influence your actions to that extent?

[youngred]

41. fair enough

just hope more follow that then don't

[blm]

10. Thanks.

There is a time for battle. Give them all some breathing room.

[dsc]

14. thanks

I must say you and the other Kerry supporters have pleasently surprised me on this. Only one of your supporters has been at all bad. I have been impressed.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. I feel compelled to point out.

that you have only added to 'the volume of the Dean posts' that you are complaining about.

[hlthe2b]

18. True, but this will be MY ONLY one and if it stops 200 more...

I feel vindicated.

[youngred]

20. Well

half of these are started by Dean fans so I really don't understand the problem.

I've not started an anti-dean post, nor will I. I will post in opposition to things I consider wrong (be the pro or anti any candidate), but I'm generally a pretty fair fella.

As for Dean supporters acting angrily, there is little surprise in that, but it is how Ive seen many of them treating some of the other candidates in the past so turnabout and fair play or some rot.

Cheers and ABB!

[hlthe2b]

25. Actually one of those threads, where you posted a perfectly reasonable

response--- only to be met with several continuing threads of intense anger, is what convinced me that we REALLY need to back off just for a few hours. (Despite whatever poor treatment delivered to "our" candidates by some Dean supporters in the past...) With the exception of Dean & Gephardt's supporters, the other candidates have either reason to celebrate, or, at least no reason to be upset after Iowa. So, no one is "hitting" our candidate when they are down...

And while I agree that there are some Dean supporters posting multiple threads in an attempt to analyze the situation, the tone of their threads is generally quite different. These are not the harsh, in-your-face tone of the duplicate posts on "caucus speech debaucle," "angry man defeated," "Dean strategy backfires," etc.,that often include very inflammatory comments/reactions from RW sources.

[youngred]

29. why thank you

I quite agree.

We need to be concentrating ourselves on what it was that edwards and kerry did right, and how to rebut the butt in the whitehouse (couldn't help myself sorry:-)).

Peace!

[KaraokeKarlton]

21. I become more devoted to NBD with every Dean bash I read

n/t

[Democrats unite]

22. Is that suppose to scare us?

it's a tactic that doesn't work well.

[Joe the Revelator]

24. I take these types of posts...

to be nothing more then threats.

[hlthe2b]

26. I hope that's not true.... But, I can absolutely assure you, that

I'll be there for Dean, if he is the eventual nominee. With bells on!

[youngred]

31. I'm sorry to hear that

but do what you will....just try not to bash others along the way if you don't mind

[Snivi Yllom]

27. I dont think Dean is done at all

In fact I sent him $100 today!

[K8-EEE]

34. I Have Never Said One Negative Word Re: Dean Until Now

I've had an open mind but sheesh, I really looked here(in the primary discussion thread) trying to see if it was just ME or was that really BAAAD. It's something that made an impression and people want to talk about it; I find it kind of surprising that the Dean supporters are so outraged by the discussion.

[Rockasan]

40. Can we please remember some recent history?

The idiots of the airwaves are talking about the "Dean implosion" after he received "only" 18% of the vote in Iowa. Well, gee, didn't Bill Clinton get something like 4%? And then he came in second in New Hampshire. Does anybody remember who came in first?
Point is, Bill Clinton was sworn in as the new President of the United States just one year later. Just a little Historical perspective in the midst of hysterical hype.

[beaconess]

45. Let's remember even more recent history:

Just a week ago, many Dean supporters were predicting a blowout for their candidate. I don't recall a single one predicting either a loss or that he would get less than 20% of the vote.

Seems like the lowered expectations are all ex post facto.

[youngred]

47. Come on

Can we stop the Dean=Clinton in 92 Iowa.

Clinton had entered late, was polling the same level as Kucinich leading up to the caucus, and was running against Harkin, who IS democratic politics in Iowa.

Dean was the frontrunner, had the most money, most time, more organization than Clinton, Harkin's backing and a patient and loving media.

if you're going to try some political perspective at least use something analogus

Clinton got 2%