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Kerry or Clark, Kerry/Clark: The Only Credible Options? Deal! Fight Bush?

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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:21 PM
Original message
Kerry or Clark, Kerry/Clark: The Only Credible Options? Deal! Fight Bush?
Some time last spring, the always-wise Robert Reich (Clinton secretary of Labor) pointed out that the ideal ticket to challenge George Bush was John Kerry and Wesley Clark. That was before the draft Clark movement. I say this to point out that Wesley Clark has long been considered a man of substance and a serious contender for the V.P. spot based on his credentials rather than any political maneuverings or aspirations.

I believe John Kerry could easily find others to join him on the ticket. Wes Clark could also find others thaN John Kerry if he captured the nomination. But I just hope that words said and commitments made during the campaign does not rule out what could be the winning option.

Question: Should Kerry and Clark come to quick agreement and end the primary contest quickly so as to focus on building a nation-wide effort to turn the nation around and remove the Bush regime. Is an all-out primary battle too fraught with danger the our future victory against Bush?

Of course, by convention time, the options and the political environment could have changed. But, not likely.

Below my post of 2 months (or so) ago

__________________________________

LET’S BE WILD AND CRAZY and assume the conclusion of most pundits is correct: that is, Governor Howard Dean, and most in the PACK, fail a mandatory test of Credibility as Commander-In-Chief in this post 9/11 environment, and cannot win against G.W. Bush.

With that assumption, there are really only 2 candidates who clearly past that TEST: Senator John Kerry and General Wesley Clark. These are the only candidates that the primary debate should be about.

THAT, SADLY, HAS NOT BEEN THE FOCUS OF MEDIA ATTENTION NOR POPULAR BOARD SUCH AS DU.

So here I try to begin an analysis of how they stack up!

Policy Record

Kerry has 2 decade senate record of speeches and legislation covering a wide array of domestic and foreign policy issues.

Clark has a strong record in speeches and action in military and foreign policy but no significant record relative to domestic policy issues (health care, taxation, jobs etc)

The breath of Kerry public record makes him a better candidate on that score in that he can run on a record on a wider variety of issues

Sumary: Kerry trumps Clark

Foreign Policy

Clark and Kerry are very similar and both worked in the 90’s for a foreign policy that Kerry calls “progressive internationalism” and argue for proactive humanitarian military intervention in the Balkan.

Both can be assumed to be very strong in both theory and practice. Kerry’s policy strength derives principally from 18 years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and his stint as Chairman of the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations. At the same time he has a long history of hands-on involvement in military affairs starting with his two tours (6 years) in Vietnam.

Clark, as a General, could be thought to be shallow in foreign policy theory, but his major posts as Commander in Chief of the United States Southern Command and then as Nato Supreme Allied Commander were essentially senior diplomatic positions negotiating and implementing U.S. foreign policy objectives.

Summary Kerry=Clark

Progressive Domestic Issues

John Kerry has the highest scores among almost all democratic leaders for his environmental record and for issues affecting the working poor. For thirty years Kerry has fought for labor rights, women’s rights and campaign finance reform. Kerry’s record is solid on education and social security. Despite significant political cost, Kerry has opposed capital punishment, the NRA and all the fat-cat special interest lobby groups camped out in Washington.

Few senators have maintained a record so widely regarded as above reproach. John Kerry’s legendary indifference to special interest initiatives has been widely slammed as arrogance, aloofness and neglect of his “constituents.”

Wesley Clark’s record and views on social issues can only be gleaned from his actions and statements regarding education, health-care and social relations in the military service. Appear to be moderate-liberal.

Clark’s stints at Washington assignments (White House Fellow and as Special Assistant at OMB) should provide him with some grasp of domestic policy issues. Unfortunately, his lack of policy positions prior to entry into the race makes it difficult to conclude what his strong commitments are on most of these issues.

Summary: Kerry trumps Clark

Military Experience

Kerry has a storied military record with noted acts of battlefield sacrifice and bravery. His 6 years of duty included some of the most dangerous missions in the war. Kerry received the Bronze Star, Silver Star and 3 Purple Hearts for his Vietnam service.

Kerry, however, became very critical of U.S. tactics in the execution of the war even while he was in the battlefield and, after the end of his 2nd Tour, threw all efforts into ending the conflict. Some have questioned Kerry ability to make tough military decisions given his vehement opposition to the military establishment in the 70’s.

Clark served in a brief (1yr) tour in Vietman and left the battlefield severely wounded. Clark received the Silver Star. Since, Clark has serve in varied desk and senior command positions in the military, and retired from the military, after winning the brief war in Kosovo, as 4 Star Nato Supreme Allied Commander.

Clark’s record of command appears to be stellar. His post-Vietnam awards include numerous medals and commendations including honorary Knighthoods from the British and Dutch governments, commander of the French Legion of Honor. In August 2000, President Clinton awarded General Clark with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian honor.

Kerry’s military experience probably left him a legacy of dreadful battlefield memories and a consciousness of the human cost of war. Clark’s life of military service likely provides supreme confidence of command.

Summary: Clark trumps Kerry

. . . . . . . . . . ..

Comments please. BE WISE!

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. together
very formidable. I prefer Clark's credentials but the argument could be made for either. If they were a ticket, I don't see how they lose.
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I see them splitting the vote...Clark has been there for a week and
Kerry is the clear frontrunner from Iowa.

The debate will help frame the "leader".
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. What about Dean for V.P. He has the real Internet organization.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm afraid the egos of both Dean and Kerry
- and I mean no disrespect to either of them - preclude a Dean/Kerry or Kerry/Dean ticket.

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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. My Concern is that without the activist movement that Dean kinda
leads right now, it is hard to have a substitute grass-roots movement. Aren't many of the most enthusiatic Dems already in the
Dean camp?
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Good analysis.
One other point:

Clark is liked by members of both parties, and will split the Republican vote, ensuring Democratic victory. Kerry is seen as a strong liberal, which will galvanize the opposition. His vote on the Iraq war will hurt him slightly with his base. Fortunately for him, Bush is a buffoon, so Democrats will still turn out for him regardless.

So on electability, Clark trumps Kerry (but it's close).
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. I agree re the Repub vote. But I don't think some Dems will warm up to
the idea Clark at head of the ticket, him being so new a Democrat.

Question is whether Clark has the full breath of instincts to stir the passions of the party
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think a Clark/Kerry or Kerry/Clark ticket is fantastic.
Clark/Kerry makes most sense since Clark would be Commander in Chief and Kerry would be President of the Senate.

It would be tough competition for Bush*.
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windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. it's a "perfect storm" to swamp Bush
I think they will both want to run and see who does best in some more primaries as to who would head the ticket...hopefully they can do this without a bloodbath
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The great challenge is to build a huge on-the-ground movement
that can truly revive the nation at its ideological foundation sufficiently to:

1. Erect a firewall against the Repub propaganda
2. Bring enough new people into progressive movementto win back the House and the Senate.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I agee. Hope Dean supporter are not too burned to join the fight under

another banner.
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windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. me too!
they will Will
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. I like Kerry-Edwards
Though I'll vote for a Democrat named Al Bundy before I put Bush-Cheney back in office.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I don't. After centuries, there is such a thing as being "Prepared" for
the Presidency.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Together They Will CRUSH The GOP
IMO, Clark has the capacity to bring a landslide by drawing in Independants & Moderates & Liberals.

Kerry has the know how to work behind the scenes kicking ass as President of the Senate.

No disrespect to Kerry Supporters intended!
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. Why isn't Edwards credible?
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Just Match Bio's against the Existing Global and Domestic Challenges

both real and perceived.

Keep in mind, Edward's himself emphasizes his lack of experience in Government (in contrast to Dean and the "Washington Insiders"). But the down-side is that 20 years as in commercial litigation does not provide one with a comprehensive grasp for military and foreign policy issues nor the convictions on the basis of which to rapidly respond to urgent national security crises.
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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. Would Clark be the Best Kerry Running Mate? Kerry may have Better.
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. As an Edwards supporter, I'm not ready to 'sign on the dotted line'!
Nice try on your part, though. :)
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Give a Month. But We have to focus on the overthrow of Bush
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