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Here's my strategy for the Democratic midterm elections:

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 01:22 PM
Original message
Here's my strategy for the Democratic midterm elections:
Run hard against every Republican that gets on Bush's Social Security bandwagon. This is a big winner for our Party and a big loser for the Repubs. But we have to take advantage of it. We can't sit on our asses and wring our hands and worry about how it's going to play in the polls. We need a blitzkrieg against this maneuver of the Repubs to steal us blind.

Most of the elderly voters know this already. And they vote. Let 'em try to sell it as a crisis. Our first job is to convince the people it is not in a "crisis". As proof of the "crisis" mode of governing, we can point to the unnecessary "crisis" the Bush Administration built up in Iraq to justify their invasion...
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. they would also have to have a real plan for social security
they'd have to have a good long-range plan to promote as an attractive alternative.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, we should all pay the same tax rate.....
Because that is what it is used for : general tax revenue. It is not put in a lockbox or saved in any way. It is spent just like any other federal tax. Therefore, take the limit off that we must pay FICA taxes upon. That would solve the problem for at least another century.
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. actually
we should eliminate the cap and lower the rate. This would solve the problem and give a tax cut to most workers.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Or else remove the cap and raise the exemption
I forget what amount FICA kicks in at, but it's ridiculously low, so low that the teenagers who provided childcare at my former church eventually reached it working two hours a week.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Some smart Democrat should figure out the formula..
whereby by eliminating the cap, we could save Social Security and give a tax cut to those making under $30K...that doesn't seem like it would be impossible to do?
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I've been talking about this for years
one day, I'll get hired by a Senate candidate and I'll be able to get a candidate elected on this.
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DaedelusNemo Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Small quibble, general agreement, more details and a proposal
Well, actually, the money in the trust fund is saved in 'some' way - it now consists largely of treasury bonds, the IOU's that were left when the gov't appropriated those funds.

But that's minor quibbling; i largely agree with you. To avoid a very long reply here, i'll just say that i've been collecting information (sources available) on the subject here - http://www.democrats.us/beta/forum/view_topic.php?id=2103&forum_id=3 .

The major points: there is no crisis of any kind, and Bush's proposed fix is not a solution in any sense that retains the function of SS as a guaranteed minimum retirement. - It saves no one any money, it reduces the benefits massively, and it borrows over a trillion dollars to accomplish that much; when even Bush's appointed social security commission projects interest payments to already be a far larger problem than social security.

The rhetoric about 'ownership' and 'personal' accounts is false; under Bush's proposal #2, the current favorite, the investment would be done by the government until enough money was piled up in 'your' account to make it attractive to mutual fund managers, at which point you get to perform your sole bit of 'personalization': you would get to select which of the five government-approved managers would manage 'your' account. This would represent a massive centralization of the US economy and make the government a major player in the stock market. Those five managers would have the power to make and break companies. A greater inducement to corruption is hard to imagine.

In addition, the proposal loads SS down with many new costs: the costs of managing millions of private accounts, to begin with. Brokerage fees of undetermined size. The cost of setting up an annuity for retirement, alone, represents 20% of your savings. The secret of SS is that it is in fact very efficient: all but .6% of income is paid out as benefits.

But anyway, that's all complaining about Bush's proposal. I think you were entirely right to say that to combat it effectively, the democrats must put forward their own proposal. Even though the projected problem is far off and of limited scale, it'd be best to go ahead and address it well ahead of time so that we can choose which methods carry the most bearable cost.

I don't have the figures for a complete lifting of the cap, but if the cap was reset to 90% of incomes, (which is how Greenspan set it up in 1983, but incomes have changed since then) that would raise the cap from $87,900 to $110,000 and take care of 40% of the projected shortfall by itself.

Another option to consider is to set benefits to correlate with the CPI (consumer price index) instead of with average wages. When you're retiring, you're not nearly as concerned with how your income compares with others as you are about how your income compares with the prices you have to pay. The Bush commission credits this shift with savings equal to 2% of taxable income. It's something of a cut in benefit, but it's a reasonable one. It made sense originally to tie benefits in with average wages, because of the pay-as-you-go structure of SS; money out would correlate with money in. However, because wages are projected to rise faster than prices, it is projected to be cheaper to pay benefits based on prices.

Those two changes alone pretty well deal with the projected deficits over the 75-year projection range, and would provide an excellent democratic alternative - fixing the problem with the most bearable costs. To really round it out as political ammunition, tack on greater support for real ownership of individual retirement plans; as a supplement to SS, not instead of it.

Some other things that would make a big difference: raising the minimum wage, and shifting the illegal immigrant worker population to a legal immigrant worker population.

(Is this post too long? I am not yet familiar with local norms.)
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Good Post
I'm trying to get up to speed on Social Security issues. You seem to have a handle on it. Now can you boil it down into soundbites?
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DaedelusNemo Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Thanks!
I've been trying to assimilate and boil down the information, but it'll take more chewing before i can get it down to soundbites. At least i've gotten it down to a three-course meal :P Anybody want to beat me to the soundbite stage, i'd be grateful.

My attempted soundbites at this point would be: By Bush's estimate, SS is fine until at least 2043, so there is no 'crisis'. Bush's proposal includes a massive benefit cut, borrowing of over a trillion dollars, and government manipulation of the stock market. The problem that does exist can be solved entirely by 1) matching benefits to prices rather than wages, and 2) resetting the salary cap for pay-in to $110,000 instead of $87,900; going back to the original proportion.

The big soundbite, i guess, would be that Bush's plan takes the 'security' out of social security; it gets rid of the guaranteed minimum retirement benefit that was the point of the program in the first place.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Nice work! Welcome to DU!
When you can, you should start a separate thread with this. Very nice work.

:toast:
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DaedelusNemo Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. And thanks to you too!
Edited on Sun Jan-02-05 11:37 PM by DaedelusNemo
This is all mighty encouraging, given that i expected my effort to disappear without trace.

When i start the thread, what do you think it should include? (I'm not yet familiar with local norms and approaches.) Should i try to deliver a comprehensive compendium of information and links, or should i instead try to present a stripped-down argument, or what? It seems to me that we need to both attack Bush's proposal and give our own, but are those two things too much to go into in a single thread?

(And when can i start threads?)

EDIT/ and where should that thread be posted?
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moggie12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Yes, but assault directly, don't tie into Iraq lies
I agree we need an all-out war to defeat Bush's SS plan. I'd like to see a commercial showing some hedge fund guys sitting around salivating about getting their hands on SS money "invested" in Wall Street. (Only saps like me with 401K's "invest" -- the smart money "trades". The vehicle of choice these days are hedge funds, a nearly one trillion dollar industry. One of my big problems with the DLC folks is that they let hedge fund industry get away with all kinds of shenanigans...)

BUT, I don't think we should try to downplay the problems with the SS program -- something truly needs to be done. And I really don't like bringing Bush's Iraq lies into the mix: We couldn't make a good enough case about that during the Presidential election!! (My head still hurts from trying to explain Iraq sequence of events to my mother-in-law to convince her not to vote for Bush)

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Makes sense...
:)
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Gyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. You're assuming vote-tampering has been taken care of
or, that it never happened. And you know the definition of "assume" I'm sure.

I've never seen a stronger candidate run against a weaker candidate, with all the right issues at his back, and Kerry still "lost". That circumstantial evidence alone is enough for half of dem party supporters in '04 to stay home and keep their wallets shut until there are some really substantial changes.

The media and/or the current tamper-susceptible system will have to change or you and all your bright eyed and bushy-tailed friends will just continue to spin your wheels. It's your $ and ATP. Good luck.

Gyre
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Kerry may have been a strong candidate...
but he didn't run a strong campaign.

As for the rest of your post...you nailed it. If the dems who are supposedly representing us don't do something to guarantee future fraud-free elections, then everything else means nothing.






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amjucsc Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. Basically wait for something to go seriously wrong...
Wait a respectful period, then go for a full court press in the next election.

The Republicans no longer have anything to hide behind when something goes wrong. And the liklihood that something will go wrong in the next four years is pretty high.

Possible talking points:

A recession/dollar crash bought on by deficits: The Republicans told you that our first priority was fixing a budget crisis twenty or thirty years away. All the while they spent like drunken sailors and have created a crisis NOW. Do you really want these people running the government.

Another terrorist attack: The Republicans promised they would protect you, but...

Stock market crash: And to think the Republicans were planning to stick your retirement saving in there...

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. We need some ultra-tough PR to MAKE something go wrong.
We know it's gonna happen, let's make it sooner rather than later.

If we can win seats in 2006, our candidate can just stroll into the WH.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
13. Run against "corrupt one party control."
This phrase applies to everything Bush and the rest of the republican party says or does.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
14. My strategy is to register and vote Green.
If the Democrats cling to the notion of "winning" through compromise, the only way to resuscitate the dying party is to make our votes count by making them valuable.

The Democrats will continue to pander to the right as long as they can take our votes for granted. It's time to make them work for our votes.
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. good riddance
Here we have people talking about ways to beat the Republicans and save social security and you go bring up your tired old line about the party is moving to the right. Its a load of crap.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yeah, sure. The Dems are going to save SS.
How are they going to accomplish that? Just watch them "compromise" it away with some window dressing.

A load of crap, huh? IWR, NAFTA, No Child Left Behind, The Budget, "Defense" spending, Harry Reid, The "Plan" for Iraq (same as Bush's), Gay Marriage, The Patriot Act, etc. Naaah they aren't moving to the right.

What do you call it?
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. in case you haven't noticed
Republicans control the entire government. Blaming us for their initiatives is idiocy. The Patriot Act was passed days after 9-11. It wasn't about the party moving to the right. It was about hysteria. No Child Left Behind was supposed to be a deal to get more money spent on education. Bush reneged on the deal. Harry Reid is leader because he is next in line. He's taken a very tough line so far. Gay Marriage? Dems were successful in killing the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. If your not happy in the Demcratic Party, just leave already. Maybe you'd be happier at a site with out the word Democratic in its title.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Not yet.
There may still be a chance for the Democrats to pull their heads out of the sand and chuck out the "leadership".

The Patriot Act was due to "hysteria"? Gosh, and here I thought that "leaders" weren't supposed to get hysterical and sell our rights away. I notice that you skipped the IWR vote by a good portion of the "leaders" including our esteemed candidate. NAFTA? NCLB "was supposed" to be a deal..". Yeah, and Bush wasn't going to invade Iraq because of the IWR.

"Republicans control the entire government.." No kidding. Why is that?
Could it possibly be that the Democratic Party stands for everything and nothing?

Do you really think that the Democrats in congress aren't going to "compromise" on SS? Their track record shows otherwise. After all, they do so want to be "electable".
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. The Democratic Party has to draw the line in the sand
on Social Security.

If we don't stand up and fight this, then we might as well all drink the Kool-Aid and be happy little Republicans.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Harry Reid has drawn the line
So considering how weak that guy can be on certain things, it's a pretty good indicator that we're not going to support privatizing social security.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. Elections? We'll have elections?
:shrug:
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