So, don't like the DLC? (DLC supporters please ignore)

[Gold Metal Flake]

I'm no Einstein. Hell, I'm not even a Flintstone. I might be a Norton. But it seems to me that if the DLC is an impediment to the futherance of the Progressive agenda, then instead of arguing about it on DU and elsewhere, some enterprising folks could get busy on the ground and dig up as much dirt on the DLC principles as possible, and then work it. If they are undermining the left, they can't be clean. There must be some real shit that can be found on these guys.

If the DLC is sucking the life out of the Democratic Party, destroy it. If they are using the Progressive heritage and name against the Progressive Movement, then realize that they are double agents and neutralize their influence.

The Progressive Movement is a country. Defend it.

Look, there is no way to gain power without getting dirty in the process. I think a lot of Proressives must decide if they really want to win, and then act accordingly. You have to TAKE the high road if you wanna take the high road. Right now, the high road has been stolen, walled off and is patrolled by private contractors with allegience only to their corporate owners.

[HeeBGBz]

1. At the risk of sounding oh so ignorant

What is the DLC?

[mhr]

4. Democratic Leadership Council - It Came To Prominence

With Clinton and the third way.

[Joy Anne]

5. Democrat Leadership Council

a rightist group that constantly calls on the party to denounce dangerous people like Michael Moore and Howard Dean.

[xultar]

7. They are a bunch of corpratist whores who are Rethuglican trojan horses in

the DNC. They have come in and taken over.

They must be purged because they have their own agenda which is to move the Democratic party to the space vacated by the rethuglicans as they move further right.

The DLC supported the Iraq war and the patriot act. They hate gays and are against gay marriage and civil unions. If they aren't stopped they will doom us all straight to hell.

I think that sums it up from all of the theads here today.

[Cheswick2.0]

15. now you've got it

[HeeBGBz]

10. Thanks for the clarification

[paulk]

24. the DLC is a convenient scapegoat

for people who don't want to understand how politics really works.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

50. So are gays,pro-choice people and Nader in 2000

for people who lick DLC crevice.

[paulk]

55. politics really works

when you get people elected. If the DLC can help get Democrats elected, then I really don't understand the purge mentality exhibited by so many on this board.

It's a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" strategy, and I think it's stupid.

Nader is a fair target, since he's not a member of the Democratic Party. Is being anti-gay or anti-choice explicitly part of the DLC manifesto?

[Cheswick2.0]

52. no... the DLC is an organization designed to take corporate

money and distribute it to politicians who will vote for corporate interests rather than the interests of the people.

[paulk]

57. what bothers me most about your statement

is it's absolutism.

All corporations are bad. The "interests of the people" are some easily definable thing. Who gets to define?

The DLC is a tool, a tool used to successfully win some elections.

:shrug:

What's wrong with that?

[mzmolly]

2. I'm not sure if the DLC is as much of the problem as their current

leadership?

I dunno, but I do despise Al From.

[pnutchuck]

3. I agree, we need to take action

I just posted "Why aren't we marching on Washington?" We need to destroy this system that is not representing our issues. What happened to the days when it was the progressives that started the movements, that overturned the systems? How did these fundamentalists become the new activists while we liberals sit back in our chairs complaining on the internet? I'm ready for a march! I'll put in what ever effort is needed, aside from violence, to overturn this corrupt system that no longer belongs to "we the people"! But we need the people to motivate themselves, get out of their chairs and get a dirty, as you put it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=13683&mesg_id=13683

[Thurston Howell IV]

6. Help me understand

You write, "Look, there is no way to gain power without getting dirty in the process." What are some specific examples of what you mean by this?

BTW, I agree with the general point of your post. Just not clear on this part.

[Gold Metal Flake]

17. There are those who would say that...

the left needs to distinguish itself by not lowering itself to using the tactics of what is called the right. I suggest that perhaps at this point things are too far-gone to not fight back with extreme energy. I suggest that if we are to save the Republic, perhaps we must set out to win by any means necessary.

If on the road to victory we must destroy established systems or constructs that claim to represent the Democratic Party, but in fact seem to work to impeded the Progressive Movement, these institutions should be raided, divested, discredited, plundered, appropriated and redirected. Those who people such insincere institutions should be exposed, discredited, humiliated and rendered impotent. And, it should happen suddenly and massively.

How? I'm Norton, remember? I work in the sewer. I'm no good with the details.

The revolution will not be planned on DU.

-EDIT- Speliong

[Smirking_Chimp]

8. Agreed- Brainwashed wimps.

What's the point of being in the opposition, when you do not oppose?

[Eloriel]

9. Here's where some enterprising folks might start

DLC
The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves. -- Lenin

LINKS - What every DUer and every Dem needs to know about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4443&forum=DCForumID22&archive=

Let's be REALLY honest about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23262&forum=DCForumID60&archive=


Outing the "New Democrats" -- Pukes in Progressive Clothing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1435&forum=DCForumID34

Everyone who is a fan of the DLC, needs to read this post,
(Devils Advocate NZ's post is included)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=11323&forum=DCForumID60#114

Kerry, the New Democrats, and American Military Hegemony
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=326015#326061

New Dems formed to get corporate donors, be free from party base ideology
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1346735&mesg_id=1346735&page=

Ask the questions NOW of the DLC and Clinton. Corporate funding.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1372759#1373432

[greenohio]

11. What we need to do is kick out those repuke moles

Heres a list of members:
Jim Doyle Governor WI
Michael Easley Governor NC
Jennifer Granholm Governor MI
Bob Holden Governor MO
Gary Locke Governor WA
Jim McGreevey Governor NJ
Ruth Ann Minner Governor DE
Ronnie Musgrove Governor MS
Janet Napolitano Governor AZ
Ed Rendell Governor PA
Bill Richardson Governor NM
Kathleen Gilligan Sebelius Governor KS
Tom Vilsack Governor IA
Mark Warner Governor VA
Max Baucus U.S. Senator MT
Evan Bayh U.S. Senator IN
John Breaux U.S. Senator LA
Maria Cantwell U.S. Senator WA
Tom Carper U.S. Senator DE
Hillary Clinton U.S. Senator NY
Kent Conrad U.S. Senator ND
Christopher Dodd U.S. Senator CT
John Edwards U.S. Senator NC
Dianne Feinstein U.S. Senator CA
Bob Graham U.S. Senator FL
Tim Johnson U.S. Senator SD
John Kerry U.S. Senator MA
Herb Kohl U.S. Senator WI
Mary Landrieu U.S. Senator LA
Joe Lieberman U.S. Senator CT
Blanche Lincoln U.S. Senator AR
Bill Nelson U.S. Senator FL
Ben Nelson U.S. Senator NE
Mark Pryor U.S. Senator AR
Debbie Stabenow U.S. Senator MI

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Actually some of these people do need to be kicked out

:shrug:

[greenohio]

14. Great plan. Once their all gone...

then we will initiate our plan to retake the senate and those governor ships. Then we will be winners. Oh yeah, and we need to revoke Bill Clinton's membership as well. He never was one of us.

[Cheswick2.0]

16. nah..........we just need to give them a reason to quit the DLC

[greenohio]

18. They joined because they believed in the principles.

Ask them. They are repuke moles. What difference does it make if its the same people in power but the name of the organization is different or if they aren't organized at all. One or two people does not a powerful organization make.

[Cheswick2.0]

54. silly

They joined to get campaign cash. When those principals don't get them elected they won't believe them anymore.
Lots of democrats are on the list who have little if anything to do with the organization. We do know the DLC just adds names when they feel like it don't we?

[greenohio]

62. Yes they are sellouts, which is why they fit in the DLC so well.

The DLC sells out to corporations. The members of the DLC sell out to the DLC. If they thought that DLC membership was a losing strategy, they would quit. But they haven't. Your theory of knocking off a few of them to shake them is flawed when there are so many of them that HAVE won. The ones you want are in red states, that would be permanent losses to the party.

We do know that the DLC takes names off their membership list when requested don't we?

[Gold Metal Flake]

19. Ambitious list!

Naturally, as far as elections go, assuming votes will ever count again, better candidates must be put forth and supported.

Dianne Feinstein is a 2006 contest that I can involve myself with. Who will be the true Demcratic challenger?

[greenohio]

20. Hey they allowed their name in the New Dem Directory and need to go!

Once all DLC'ers are out of the Democratic party, then we can get back to the business of winning!

[Forkboy]

25. Nah,we really need to dump gays,women's rights,gun control and start

sticking up for polluters....THEN we'll win!

[greenohio]

27. That doesn't sound very progressive.

Progressive is hating the DLC with every fiber.

[Forkboy]

29. Fuck progressiveness...just win baby!!

We all know those far left purity demanding fringie progressives dont really have any principles.Only the DLC and their take it up the ass attitude can save America now!

[greenohio]

32. Let's poddy mouth our way to top.

Helps make our point...you did have a point right?

[Forkboy]

34. Hey why are you following Cheswick around tonight

:silly:

you did have a point right?

Did you? Haven't seen one yet,just lame attempts at satire :shrug:

[greenohio]

37. Uhh, she replied to me first.

Wow, you know about satire. Man, and I thought you weren't the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Forkboy]

38. And here I thought we were pals

[Cheswick2.0]

53. he LOOOOOOOOOOOOOves me

he can't help following me around.

[angee_is_mad]

21. What repub would u like

to take their place? I am from NC and that is exactly what would happen. So, tell me what republican would you have to be the governor of my state? Remember, this is red country here so please be realistic in your choice.
I would love to have a liberal governor in NC, but I am a big girl now and realize that there is no Santa Claus.

[greenohio]

22. Hey they are DLC. Don't defend the DLC...they are EVIL

EVIL EVIL EVIL. They are repukes in disguise, far worse than repukes. Sometimes you have to cut out the cancer. Some times you have to cut off the nose. Sometimes that foot just needs to be shot.

[Forkboy]

26. You seem troubled by something tonight

which is good news! :bounce:

[greenohio]

28. I'm not troubled.

But its good to know you care.
:hug:

[Forkboy]

30. if that thought makes you happy

[greenohio]

31. It does. That and you following me on the boards.

Gives me warm fuzzies. Now lets go kick more people out of the party until we're a majority again.

[Forkboy]

33. Not following...just seeing you all over tonight

You flatter yourself...no,really.

[greenohio]

35. You flatter me. So many posts and you reply to me.

wherever I go. I'm actually blushing.

[Forkboy]

36. Awww

"I promise if you marry me I'll never look at another horse again" - Groucho Marx

[greenohio]

39. What's this thing you have for horses?

You better get that checked.

[Forkboy]

40. I did

the doctor said it was a case of greenohio...gave me some antibiotics and it went away.

[greenohio]

41. Oh, I thought it was about forking horses.

Don't be ashamed. You've got to be you. Don't let people's opinions oppress you.

[Forkboy]

42. Strange how you went from a Marx Bros quote to bestiality

It's a funny ole world.

[greenohio]

43. What does Forkboy mean?

Forkboy. Is that your name or just what you do?

[Forkboy]

44. ho ho,cheap sexual innuendo

the last refuge of the slow witted :shrug:

[greenohio]

45. I don't know what your talking about.

Its your name. You are the one who started talking about bestiality and sexual inuendo. I was just asking you about your name as you were about mine.

[Forkboy]

46. I direct you to your posts #39 and #41

and I never asked you about your name :shrug:

Is this the kind of intellectual honesty one should expect from a DLCer? No wonder people hate them around these parts.

Nighty night....dont let the bed bugs bite!

:hi:

[greenohio]

47. Give it up. You've followed me onto every thread tonight.

Harassing me by reply to my post on each thread. I don't mind that so much, but don't now pretend to be the victim.

[struggle4progress]

59. Politics is about building winning coalitions. So the first rule is ...

... not to make permanent enemies, unless absolutely necessary. We, of course, have real enemies in power, and we must build the power base to defeat them. Clear-eyed, accurate analysis is therefore necessary.

Not a fan of the DLC, I am convinced that the Clinton/DLC "triangulation" approach helped spawn our current political difficulties. But that approach seems correct in one important way: it argues from the view that the US is essentially a centrist country. Meanwhile, our enemies are rightwing extremists. This "centrist/extremist" conjunction by itself potentially gives us an advantage in coalition building, and the advantage could only be increased if our positive agenda were understood and communicated well.

For the purposes of actually putting people in motion locally over the next 18 months or so, to raise public awareness and to pressure elected officials and media outlets, the DLC is not a good target. We should instead focus on the Repub extremists and the damage they are inflicting.

[janx]

12. I'm sorry, but I have to go to bed.

I don't like the DLC.

I write stories.
http://www.losthorsepress.org/foodchain.html


You can find them on amazon and others too.

I'm a Deaniac. I remind myself of my parents sometimes.

--jk

[VivaKerry]

23. It's simple, take over the party at a local level....

and obliterate the DLC at the national level.

It isn't about 'speaking out',it's about taking our party back at the local level..........across the nation...........and started a MOVEMENT at the local level. National is only as powerful as the people at the local level.

[sarahlee]

49. One County made a start

From:
http://blog.pdamerica.org/

---QUOTE---
Last night at the Door County Democratic Party Elections – the Progressive Democrats took over the County Party organization.

With the help of Steve Kastner, and Phil Saperstein every office holder as been replaced with a candidate dedicated to the Progressive cause.

Put Wisconsin on your board and know that this initiative is not coming from Madison but rather- Door County!

Regards,

John Wilson
http://www.wisconsinprogressives.org
----------

Suggestion:
Take a minute to drop by http://blog.pdamerica.org/ and leave a comment to tell John and his buddies THANKS!!!!!!!

[Gold Metal Flake]

51. Well, now they done gone and sunk the party.

As others have noted in this thread, change is not only impossible, it will kill us all. So, stop trying to fill us with hope. It's hopeless. HOPELESS!!! Breaux and Feinstein forever!!!!!

On Edit: Congrats to the Wisconsin Progressives. Good on ya! Export your methods to those whose feet are not cast in cement and keep fighting!

[Cheswick2.0]

56. that is fantastic

congratulations to these guys.

[chaska]

58. So, ideas?

Just brainstorming here:

1) What about a petition to the DNC saying something like 'we will no longer support a non progressive leadership'.

2) Register our discontent by registering with the Green party?

It's not enough to merely change direction, we have to let those that put themselves in front of us in leadership roles know that we are now going a different way. Toe the line or get out of the way.

[janx]

60. Oh, I have a hunch they know that already...

;-)

[bvar22]

63. Petition the DNC/DLC?

If you are interested in opposing the DLC, check this link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1409936

[Hippo_Tron]

61. The DLC is a necessary evil

We can't throw them out of the party in a hostile manner because we won't win a single presidential election if we do, but we need to dampen their influence so that they don't control the party.