The grassroots died (severly wounded?) tonight....

[Nazgul35]

The campaigns of Gephardt (Unions), Kucinich (activists) and Dean were stomped today by the monied interests of the party....

The only candidate left that has any claims to having a grass roots movement (Clark) will be in serious trouble in tomorrow's polls once Kerry gets the bounce.....

If anyone wants to disagree with this, I invite them to go to the FEC and look at the percentage of donors who received more than $100 versus those who got less......

I am seriously sad at this Party...I was excited by the idea of participating in my democracy again, I was canvassing, phone banking, donating money for the first time in my life....but it appears that the only thing that matters to the average voter is what happens on TV.....

Congratulations everyone, the future of elections will be fought in 30 second spots on TV....and we know we can afford to keep up with the repugs on this.....

Truly sad.....

edited title as too many were focusing in on death....

[creativelcro]

1. No reason to be defeatist... Really... It means little for Dean.

[liberalmuse]

I agree.

We have more primaries to go, namely N.H. I'd be lying if I said I weren't disappointed. People are still going for the old name brands, and the biggest name brand in the November election will be 'Bush'. We could have fire, but people want luke warm. Now I know how Kucinich supporters have felt all along.

[cthrumatrix]

33. dean picks up and moves on....dean folks said this is a 50 state fight

[loudnclear]

50. The BIG question is who will Dean support?

My bet is Dean would support Kucinich...the only candidate who actually voted against the Iraq invasion. Hold on Kucinich, it an't over yet!

[SheilaT]

2. This was just the first step

in a very long process.

[EllieDem]

32. Oh puhleeeeze

Howard Dean is the reason Howard Dean is starting to lose. There have been some HUGE gaffes in the last month. The worst was saying he would withhold judgment about Bin Laden's guilt. WTF??? Bin Laden CLAIMED responsibility for 9/11. As Senator Kerry asked so eloquently....

"Governor Dean.......what WERE you thinking????"

[Sly Kal]

48. You should know

I will not vote for John Kerry. Clark is my guy and Dean is my 2nd. Iowa is not that important.

[depakid]

56. He was thinking he was an American

and last I heard, Americans- at least some Americans, still stood for due process. If you ask me that was a pretty courageous thing say and a real cheap shot on Kerry's part. While it may have won him support, it lost him a lot of respect in my book. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think you sentence anyone for anything without according them an opportunity for a trial-

[hellhathnofury]

3. Let's hear it for negative campaigning people!

[arewethereyet]

4. Edwards had the "worst" organization

and has been anything but the darling.

These people were not dragged out to vote for him, they did it themselves apparantly.

That sounds like grassroots to me.

[ShaneGR]

7. EXACTLY

The people have spoken.

[Nazgul35]

13. than you have a very loose definition of grass roots...

voting is not grass roots....

this is what Dems have always done, this is why our party has had to turn to special interests to compete......because we only vote.....

We had a chance to build something very special for the future of this country.....

I guess you can say it isn't dead, but it certainly is on life support, considering how the media has ferociously attacked Dean when he was in the lead....wait until tomorrow....

[jfiling]

39. I don't understand your complaint

Howard Dean defeated Howard Dean. His "grassroots" campaign has been built off of people who liked his hate-Bush, radical anti-war transparent agenda. People are realizing how full of hot air Dean is, and his decline will be satisfying to the more moderate of us.

[Nazgul35]

51. this is what I mean....

I support this candidate...and for none of the reasons you listed...nor did any of the people whom I talked and worked with week after week....

but you keep spreading that nonsense....it will do you wonders come November

[arewethereyet]

55. I take no satisfaction at all from except for the success of Edwards

it justifies what I've believed in his campaign all along and if we can just stay focused on this there is no telling what can happen.

There was hard work all around. I'm glad our sort of hard work resonated with the people.

I honor the dedication of ALL the people who put so much of themselves into this process. This effort is what seperated America from the rest.

[arewethereyet]

45. I'm saying its traditional grass roots

not the kind trucked in. Iowans did this, they are the grass roots in Iowa as Virginians are the grass roots where I live. This is what actual grass roots are. My definition is anything but loose.

[Kahuna]

14. Did you see all those elderly people on CSPAN for Edwards?

All of the pols who endorsed Dean have forgotten that the over 40 crowd far outnumber the under thirty crowd.

[DemBones DemBones]

54. And some of them said Kucinich was the best,

"a really good man" and "a real Democrat," but wound up voting for Edwards because so many insist DK isn't electable. (Not that they don't like Edwards, but that they preferred Kucinich's ideas.)

That's where I stand, too -- Kucinich is the best and I'll vote for Kerry or Edwards as the nominee but am completely turned off by Dean. If I lived in Iowa and DK wasn't viable in my caucus, I'd have supported Edwards on the second round.

[bearfartinthewoods]

42. you don't need an date if you really want to go to the dance

all the rides and babysitters in the world couldn't compete with a easy sell like Edwards.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

5. yep

mcaulliffe gets to stay in charge and lead us over the cliff again - all because a lot of gullible people let the corporate media scare them with talk of a certain doctor being 'too liberal"

[Dookus]

10. Sorry...

I watched on CSPAN.

McAuliffe wasn't there. The DLC wasn't there. I saw a bunch of good old-fashioned Democrats showing up in person and making their views known.

You may not like the result, but it was pure democracy in action.

[ShaneGR]

6. Monied Interests? Who had the most money? Dean did!

This was people seeing the candidates and making up their minds based on what they personally believed in and wanted.

[ulysses]

18. "Dead"?

[mike1963]

31. Heh, a rather humorous typo, but he's right, Dean had the most money,

so I guess "the monied interests" is a bit of a strawman. But I don't think Dean can be counted out just yet, there are 49 other states.
;-)

[DoNotRefill]

38. I missed the part where Dean had to put up his house....

for a mortgage to raise funds because the grassroots weren't supporting him....

"The Democratic Nomination: The Best Nomination Family Money Can Buy..."

[spooky3]

24. Did I not see posts here that JRE would run out of $ by early Feb.?

[Kahuna]

8. "The monied interests?" Kerry had to mortgage his home, FCOL..

:eyes:

[are_we_united_yet]

15. I'm sure his wife

could have lent him some money as well. They are not hurting for cash.

[Dookus]

23. His wife has given him $2,000

the legal maximum.

[kiahzero]

28. Actually, no

She can only donate the $2,000; her assets are inconsequential for the campaign.

[George_Bonanza]

16. Exactly

[Nazgul35]

22. The combined money of Gep, Kerry, Edwards, and others

were all spent to attack the front runner....

and it worked.....congrats....

This person has already spoken, and cast my vote for Dean in Michigan....

[spooky3]

35. Edwards did NOT attack anyone

It was an excellent showing for him because he worked himself to the bone to get his message out, and thank goodness for the Des Moines Register for listening to what he had to say.

[Nazgul35]

53. true...I retract that about Edwards...

Is the same reason I think Clark is doing well...

[NV1962]

9. Ho boy

The Iowa caucuses aren't over yet, and already seeing "the end of grass-roots" at this point?

Wow.

That's a rather defeatist POV - not to mention an awful degree of confidence in the strength of conviction of the participants!

Instead of seeing specters, try and take a very, very close look at the message Iowans are sending. Learn from it and you'll grow stronger. Ignore or fear it and you'll only prove opponents/adversaries right.

So, how strong is your belief in your candidate?

Take heart - this is just the 1st round... More opportunities lie ahead.

(and consider Clark - hehe)

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Khephra]

12. If Dean is in the top three

Then he wins.

He wasn't expected to be in the race at this point, by some accounts. NH and Super Tuesday are two different battles with different ground rules.

I may say quit after the Super Tuesday results, but it isn't time for the supporters of ANY candidate to be depressed. This is just ONE primary state.

Gods! Is IA to decide the fate of the nation? If so, I think we should all move there for the next election.

Man, I haven't even been to IA. I didn't know they were more important than the other states.

[liberalmuse]

26. Thanks, I needed that.

I know it isn't over, but tonight was a replay of one long nightmare. You think things are about to change, and they don't. Anyway, though important, Iowa rarely decides the entire race and I look forward to NH and NC.

[meow mix]

17. clark and green grassy roots beckon you

we need you - and we love you! =)
Win with Wes!

[Guaranteed]

19. Today the Democratic Party has destroyed itself.

People gave in. It's over.

May as well head to Europe.

[leyton]

20. I don't know what to say.

To hear you claim that Gephardt and Dean and Kucinich are the only legitimate candidates because they had organization is disheartening. So Edwards and Kerry didn't have organization... they obviously have whatever it takes to actually get people to vote for them.

To rest of the supporters of Gephardt and Dean and Kucinich: don't give up. It's just one caucus.

[Nazgul35]

36. did I say legitimate?

No.....

I said they had the only grass roots organization, based on people working, giving of their own free time....

Do you really think we can compete with the repugs by raising special interest money? Or should we all mortgage our houses?

[leyton]

40. You didn't say illegitimate.

But from the tone of the original post, it sounded like you were classifying the candidates as either having grassroots support or being propped up by special interests and the DNC/DLC.

[Walt Starr]

21. It ain't over until Arnold gropes the fat lady

Yeah, he's been eying her tonight, but it ain't over yet.

New Hampshire next Tuesday, and it still won't be over.

It will come down to two choices for me. Either I'll be voting for Dean on November 2nd, or I won't be voting for the Democrat come Novemeber 2nd. After Iowa, I am firmly NBD.

[spooky3]

29. LOL! And it is true.

This is just one caucus.

[diamondsoul]

25. Not even close.

We are NOT done yet.

[yellowdog]

27. I am a Dean supporter and my man lost in my precinct tonight.

But what I saw there was a lot of Democrats doing what they believed in. There were no "monied interests" present, just a lot of sincere people voting their consciences. There are a lot more caucuses and primaries to go and none of us know what is going to happen. Just keep working for your man, and be ready to support who ever comes out on top. Bush has to go.

[The Magistrate]

41. Indeed, Sir

Politics, it has been famously said, ain't bean-bag. It also is not lawn care. Grass-roots does not mean people who agree with a particular view or candidate, nor does it mean a flood of out-of-state enthusiasts. What happened in the caucuses tonight was the grass-roots of the Party in action. They want to defeat the criminals of the '00 Coup this fall at the polls; they want a leader who will win!

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. Thank you, Sir

Precinct caucuses are won or lost according to the wishes of local residents, not according to how many out-of-state supporters a candidate has.

I canvassed this weekend, and we spoke only to registered Democrats. The vast majority were undecided but open to taking information from us.

I am disappointed at Kucinich's showing, but not surprised that Dean came in third. That one day of canvassing proved to me that the caucuses were wide open.

[DemBones DemBones]

60. Did you watch the caucus live on C-SPAN, Lydia?

There were a few people who said they liked Kucinich's ideas best but were caucusing for Edwards as being more electable. One man who I'd judge to be in his late sixties to late seventies said Dennis was "the only one really worth a damn," "a good man," and "a real Democrat." He was frustrated with DK not getting more respect, as are we all. But Dennis may do better in NH and other primaries to come.

Wolf Blitzer just said Dick Gephardt will drop out of the race now. As the race gets tighter, DK will pick up more support!

[George_Bonanza]

30. Dean's been backed up by major "establishment" people

He nabbed the biggest one: Gore.

[Maddy McCall]

34. Grassroots means a movement from within a community...so gr won tonite

So grassroots actually WON tonight.

Iowans weren't persuaded by the Dean's thousands of supporters who flooded INTO the state for him.

Grassroots comes from within, not from without. IT 's a tough tactical lesson that Dean will learn from tonight.

[Nazgul35]

44. again....to clarify what grass roots means...

as some here think grass roots means showing up and voting....

sigh....

grass roots is giving of your time working phone banks, walking canvasses, giving money.....

How many of those Iowans who voted tonight are committed to do the things listed above? Or are they just going to go out and vote again in November? maybe?

Depends on the ads run on TV...right?


Again...monied interests.....how many Americans are capable of giving the full $2000? Do they represent the rank and file?

Does anyone here believe that we will be able to compete with the repugs in money?

[Maddy McCall]

57. Take it from a historian--grassroots means "from within the community"

Grass's roots grow in the dirt where it was sown. Get it? That is where the term came from and what it means.

Therefore, Dean's campaign, by flooding the state with 1000s of people from outside the state, might have LOOKED grassroots, but indeed, in the historical sense, it was not.

[bhunt70]

37. Those people sitting in school houses and homes

didnt look like big money people.

[Sly Kal]

43. Dean's grassroots are not dead

He has tons of money and national support. Clark and Dean will end up battling for the nomination, IMO

[tameszu]

46. No they didn't! Dean is still alive, and so is Clark!

We WILL have a new politics candidate. All it takes is some willpower.

[mandyky]

49. Dean grassroots is NOT dead

We've been a tad wounded, but don't give up on the grassroots - Dean is still alive or Edwards could build a grassroots of his own.

[bread_and_roses]

52. It's one State, and the campaign is young yet

I am not a Dean supporter, but if I were, I would not despair at this early date. I understand somewhat your feelings about "grassroots" but remember, the volunteers working on any campaign are part of the "grass roots."

Since I did not expect DK to win Iowa, I am not disappointed by Kerry's (my second pick) showing. I am concerned about what Gephardt's showing may indicate about the political clout of organized labor.

On edit: it's late, I'm tired, re-reading that I feared that what I intended to be an encouraging post might not read that way. Truely, it's a long way to the finish line, your candidate has built good support, you and your fellows are doing good work. Whether he wins in the end or not, Dean's supporters are bringing important energy to the process.

[Nazgul35]

58. OK! I vented!

just like Peter I had my moment of doubt.....and I only denied in one thread!

Thanks for all of you who were so supportive (:eyes:)

[izzie]

59. Well I hope not as Dean really got that grass roots going and we need it,

I think we are safer going for them than the people in the middle but all the talking heads say it is the middle people each party needs. I like to think of all the new people that came out in that state. It sounds good for the party.