Wake the fuck up people! Even a REPUBLICAN says the election was stolen

[Blue_Roses]

For those who are awake, my apologies, for those who think that we lost due to "values" then get your head out of your ass. This isn't just about the Republicans stealing from us--the Democrats--it's about a small group of right wing fascists who in a serious power grab and have used it against the AMERICAN people. I don't give a rats ass if you are a Dem, Green, Libertarian, or even a Repub, you WILL NEVER WIN ANOTHER ELECTION AS LONG AS WE HAVE VOTER FRAUD. What is it gonna take?

Now, that I have vented...has anyone seen this:

http://www.chuckherrin.com/LiberalEmpathy.htm

This guy is a Republican and is a professional "legal" hacker. I think he presents a FAIR and HONEST look at what happened during this election. This should have every HONEST American's attention, no matter what party they are in. Read on ...


___________________________________

“Why won’t the Conservatives admit that the 2004 Presidential election was stolen?”

I’ll tell you why. There's no hard evidence that has been widely published that proves that it was. Most of them are not aware that a problem exists with our voting system, and for those that are, to admit that the Election was Stolen is to admit some very difficult things, which most Conservatives are not prepared to do. Here are my top seven reasons, in the order in which I thought of them. In order to admit that the election was stolen, we would have to admit:


7) That if a problem exists, and I benefited from it, that I might be part of the problem. Whether any particular Republican helped to steal the election or not, if we admit that fraud was committed, there is no question that the people that WE voted into power did it. Therefore, at some level, we are part of the problem. The VAST majority of Americans, both Republican and Democrat, are decent and honest people, and are loath to consider themselves a part of ANY problem, much less massive Election Fraud. If you only voted once and did so honestly, are you going to admit to helping to steal the election? No! Since the VAST majority of Republicans had nothing to do with it, they understandably don’t want to put themselves in that camp.

Now, I would counter that with saying that unless you actually helped commit the fraud or were aware of it and did nothing to stop it, then you had no way of knowing that it was taking place. You are ONLY part of the problem if you learn about it and then ignore or deny that it happened. Since most Republicans remain blissfully unaware of what may have actually happened, they are not going to be inclined to feel guilty for crimes that they had no hand in committing.

--snip--

1) You’re asking the wrong questions.

It wouldn’t matter if George Bush bit the head off a Basset Hound puppy in front of the UN - Republicans are not going to join in your fight to overturn the election and inaugurate John Kerry. Conservatives don’t want Kerry in office. Come on – this guy was promising to fight tooth and nail with some 10,000 lawyers, and then he meekly conceded the very next day. For all of the reasons listed above, plus a heavy dose of fear of Liberalism, most Conservatives will not embrace the cause if the goal is to put Kerry in office, regardless if whether of not fraud was committed. You are missing the point when you describe the problem as “Bush stole the election from Kerry”, and Republicans are simply not going to get on board with that.

more...




http://www.chuckherrin.com/LiberalEmpathy.htm

[Ima]

1. Good read

[Blue_Roses]

3. have you seen this before?

I saw a link to this today here talking about something else, and when I went to this site, I was amazed at how spot on this guy is with alot of things that we "think" we know, but can't quite prove. What makes him so much more interesting, is that he is a Republican who just cares about his country and knows that there is a "power grab" going on.

This gives me hope...

[Ima]

32. No I hadn't

I've read a few of his articles tonight, and I'm impressed. I will reread them in the AM, as I feel like theres some little thing that I need to understand better.

Have you read his letter to the 'Conservatives'? It's powerful.

[cyr330]

2. You have to ask?

Why won't conservatives admit that their president is a spoiled rich boy who's acting like a cowboy in the people's house and is making a mockery of our laws and is ruining our environment, justice system, and economy? All of this is done and a plethora of other horrors, and conservatives simply won't admit it.

[Blue_Roses]

4. Did you read the artlcle?

I'm not the one asking the question

[Redleg]

5. Sure- but only among themselves.

Much the same way the judge who sentenced Sacco and Vanzetti to death said "Did you see what I did to those communist bastards?"

[Blue_Roses]

6. Did you read the article?

guess not:eyes:

[Redleg]

8. No I didn't read the article. Is it important that I do?

???

[Blue_Roses]

10. Well, it might help if you want to understand the context of what I'm

talking about. This is a discussion forum the last time I checked...

[Redleg]

11. Okay, okay, I read it and found it interesting. But....

... Chuck is just one person. Sure the Rethugs aren't going to want to investigate voting problems. I get the sense that you are offended by my initial response. I did not respond that way to offend you or to discount what you have to say. I just believe that the Rethugs that are in the know don't really care- they laugh at us behind our backs. All other Rethugs don't want to know.

[Blue_Roses]

13. I agree and I think they do--that is, some do...

but there are some old repubs who do care about democracy--believe it or not--I talked with one today in the checkout line. I think we at DU live in a small world here of bitching and complaining most of the time, and if that's all some come here to do, fine, but some do want to know what the hell happened with this election and are worried about our rights--the rights of WE THE PEOPLE--are in serious jeopardy.

I live in the south too, and people DO stick their head in their ass here.

[Buddhakitty]

7. I'm very fucking 'AWAKE' What else can we do?

I've written to every newspaper, newsperson, website, house rep, congression rep, etc. I will march in the streets (allthough marching alone is somewhat embarrasing) What is the solution? I'll do anything. Only the people on this message board seem to care and there are just not enough of us.

[Blue_Roses]

9. I know how you feel!!!!

Don't you feel like getting a megaphone amd yelling through the neighborhood, "wake the fuck up you naive', stupid people"...geeze...even my 84 year-old CONSERVATIVE mother admits this election was "bought" as she says.

I don't know what's more frightening--complacency or ignorance.

[Buddhakitty]

17. Blue, yes, exactlly. Guess I'll see you at Guantanamo (sp?) bay

[Blue_Roses]

19. God, I hope not

I have small children :(
and oh, and I forgot--2 cats too! :D They get pretty cranky when they miss the Meow Mix;)

[Buddhakitty]

20. I have 3 (cats). They don't like 2 miss dinner either

and all you people that call me a weirdo cat person, FUCK YOU, they were ferral and I rescued them so I don't want to hear it

[Eloriel]

35. There actually ARE other things you can do

You can check out the Activism posts in these threads, for one:


VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x4927

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#


You can continue to try to educate your friends, family, etc. -- your own sphere of influence. After all, if the MSM isn't running with this, we're going to have to be the media.

There are also sign-up threads in the Voting Issues forum for other tasks to get active in.

You can DONATE to Help America Recount: www.helpamericarecount.org

which is doing amazing work, most of it behind the scenes (so you're not going to see a lot of "news" about them, here or esp. not in the MSM), but trust me, there's a lot going on.

Lots you can do. Lots.

[Merlin]

12. Got any proof for that?

That's the missing ingredient in all this bloviating. Proof.

Unless you have proof, all the suspicions in the world gain us absolutely nothing except a reputation as conspiracy nuts.

Proof takes long, hard work. That's the thing only a few--like Bev Harris and her crew--are willing to do.

[Buddhakitty]

14. PROOF ... on op-scan computers? Fuck I can't even stop the spammers

How can I stop programmers from 'making it happen' for the fucking devil *. This election was won LOOOOOOOOOOONGGGGG before 11/2. I just don't D0 NOT understand why no one cares. My only hope now with my constant letters is to stop it in the future. Make these op scan machines a thing of the past. then at least we will have a CHANCE in 2008, if we do nothing, we will be talking about the SAME EXACT THING in 4 years from now.

[Merlin]

21. You're the one who isn't listening.

You think "no one cares." That's bullshit. Everybody cares. But unless we can prove it we can't do diddly fuck about it.

So if you care so damn much, head on down to FL or out to Cuyahoga County and lend a hand trying to nail these fuckers.

Just because we don't have a paper trail doesn't mean we can't determine how it was done and who did it.

[Buddhakitty]

24. Ok Merlin, sorry if I wasn't listening ...

I know it sounds like bull ** but I live in California and I 1) can't afford to take off work and 2) I can't afford a plane ticket to hillbillyville and 3. from what I have read here, you have to be a computer programmer to understand where the programmers have hidden the 'code' on those op scan machines. I said I would do 'anything' and maybe I should edit that to say, I will do anything I can except destroy MY life to find out the truth (then my cats would starve). can we be reasonable? What can I do in my socio-economic world to make a difference????

[Merlin]

27. I understand your helpless feeling. You raise a good point.

Seems to me the thing that can be done by those of us out of the loop is to do whatever we can to support those working on this.

Moral support, blog support, sending cookies, contributions, whatever.

Even more important, I think, will be keeping this alive. Getting to the bottom of this will take a long, long time. It will cost a lot of money, and require a huge amount of effort, and some good luck.

So preparing for the long fight and sustaining the spirit and wherewithall of those involved in it and those cheering for it--that is a worthy challenge that those of us not directly involved CAN do.

Whatcha think?

[Blue_Roses]

28. well said!

It's gonna be a long haul and this is not about Kerry anymore. It has taken on a life of it's own. To think that a few power hungry repubs feel they have the "right" to say what is best for a country that has survived much more than they will ever see, is beyond me.

[Buddhakitty]

29. I'm in .... just don't tell me to buy a ticket 2 florida

Anything I can do, i will that won't jeopordize my job. If I lose my job, I'm homeless so I can't go there ... wouldn't be much help if I did - anything else, I'm game

[GetTheRightVote]

15. Nice to know one Repub who cares more about the country then the Party

[Blue_Roses]

16. that seems to be the million dollar question

Proof. If we had proof, Kerry would be raising his right hand on January 20,2005. Maybe that needs to be the new reality show "how to steal an election" then maybe we would have "proof."

[Buddhakitty]

18. They made sure there was no proof ... no paper trail ..

went to court for it and won.

[Buddhakitty]

25. The reality show could be based in Russia.....Kiev to be exact

Those MF take to the street when they think something fishy went on.

[PoiBoy]

22. Excellent post, Blue... thanks for the link...

..and I agree with the other posters regarding PROOF, or lack thereof..., they've done a good job of covering their tracks... IMO, our entire focus now needs to be on attaining a verifiable audit trail for these electronic voting machines... the argument is common sense and even repugs in my neck of the woods have a hard time justifying the fact that we don't need an audit trail... heck, even our repug governor is on record as wanting an audit trail and reciept... that's where the real battle will be, IMO... :hi:

[Blue_Roses]

31. thanks ...

just thanks...:)

[flaminbats]

23. but we must trust the machines!

remember the neocon philosophy..always give big government the benefit of the doubt, especially when it comes to counting votes, wasting money, or killing. With Bush as President, government is nothing less but the right hand of God..

[ibegurpard]

26. We're not the ones who are asleep.

What do you want us to do about it?

[Blue_Roses]

30. good question, but I don't think I'm the one you should be asking that to

and yes, some ARE asleep or in deep denial.

[suegeo]

33. We are awake.

I read the article, and don't really know what the author intends for us to do. (Are progressives the audience for this story?)

The republicans he is talking about 1) know America has been warped into a bunch of fascist murders, and don't care or 2) are so brainwashed there is no reaching them.

If he really wants me to do something, maybe he could teach me about how to deprogram cult members.

ON EDIT: This guy wrote:
We are already emotionally invested in the war in Iraq, and admitting that the war was a mistake means admitting that:

a) our President lied to us, which shakes our faith and trust in the office of the Presidency,

b) we were dumb enough to believe it, (I was. I supported the war in Iraq, because I trusted that our leaders would do the right thing. Specifically, I trusted Colin Powell. I bought it, and I was deceived by my trusted leaders, and it hurts.), and

c) as a result of OUR gullibility and mistakes, innocent men, women, and children who NEVER posed ANY danger to us are suffering and dying.

END QUOTE

Do you think this republican author will ever allow himself to truly look at what our government did on us on 9.11.01? Imagine how "hurt" and "shook" he'll be if he does.

After these emotions sink in, perhaps this republican asshole can approach me and talk about "Liberal Empathy."

Imagine, again, how "hurt" and "shook" he'll be when he realizes that conservatives went on a witch hunt of Clinton, and thereby prevented our elected leader from focussing on stopping terrosit attacks.

Also, can someone tell this dork that we do have evidence (see Greg Palast) that the 2000 election was stolen. In case this guy needs a narrative: There was a coup in 2000, 9.11 was the Reichstag fire to get us to rally around the fake leader, and we are now a fascist state.

[brindis_desala]

34. unless you're prepared to surrender

it's time to begin the resistance and the vote fraud issue is the ideal rallying cry. But it will have much more power if we stop worrying about john kerry and start worrying about the country. There are enough fair minded conservatives who DID NOT vote for Bush who might join but they will not lead. it's the nature of being a conservative. It seems no one here knows where to start well study your history, collect the evidence then go back to church. The internet is a wonderful tool but if you're in a battleground state you need to go out and meet with the people. Get those young folks who stood in line for 8 hours to go with you when you visit the local churches, Fire up the college campuses! Call out the ACLU and the NAACP and tell them you want to keep the pressure on this issue. You need to be ready to protest on short notice. Drag the MSM into this kicking and screaming or let their silence finally condemn them.