Does it matter "how" you win so long as you "win" ?

[kentuck]

A few years ago, the University of Colorado played a football game with the University of Missouri in which they had a series of plays in which they got 5 downs instead of 4 and went on to "win" the game. They most likely would not have won if they had not gotten the "extra" down. Does it matter?

And does it matter if one side cheats or steals, so long as they "win"? And does it matter if votes are stolen so long as one side is declared the "winner"? What difference does it make? The media says one side won and the other side lost. Should it be accepted as a legitimate win? Should it be counted as a "win" at all?

And how do we define "cheating or stealing"? Is it cheating to deceive people with lies and distortions to vote for you? At what level does it become unacceptable? Is it only when our side loses? If the cheating and stealing is more than acceptable, do we have any responsibility to refer to the "winner" with any respect? Do we have to even refer to him as a "winner"?

[sam sarrha]

1. Depends on if you want to ever want to get out of Samsara.. or just burn

suffer for eturnity

[blackangrydem]

2. Our parents were lying when they said it doesn't matter if you win

or lose, it's how you play the game.

I don't think I'll be passing that one on to my kids.

[Warpy]

4. Actually, they were right

Cheaters get short term gains, but eventually, people around them start to notice they're incompetent.

Unless, of course, they went through 4 years of college on purchased term papers and went into journalism. Then their competence will be measured by how quickly they read those RNC press releases on the news.

The rest of the cheaters are always looking over their shoulders, terrified of being found out. They generally are, too.

[bloom]

3. war ethics

It always strikes me as odd - the idea of war ethics. It seems like if one side believes in their goals - esp. when the goal is to get a foreign army out of their country - it does not surprise me if they do whatever it takes.

I do not think it makes as much sense to be claiming "whatever it takes" when you are the occupying force - because there is not as much to win or to lose. And it seems there is more to lose ( like honor and trust of other counties) if you go beyond certain prescribed boundaries.

In politics - I think there is much to lose if you want to restore ethics and legitimacy to a government if you do it by unethical means. It doesn't make sense.

If it becomes impossible to restore ethics and legitimacy... and when so many rights are taken away that rights are essentially a joke - it is possible the only option would be a revolt.... And then you are back to war ethics.

[ohioan]

5. Unfortunately, that's what the bad guys believe, too

Of course, they don't think they're bad or evil. They think they have good goals and are willing to do whatever it takes to achieve them.

If we start operating that way, how are we any different or more moral than they are?

[bloom]

7. Sorry - you are not making sense

"In politics - I think there is much to lose if you want to restore ethics and legitimacy to a government if you do it by unethical means. It doesn't make sense. "


DO our opponants believe this? It does not seem that they do...


We are not at the stage of war with them yet ...

[meow2u3]

6. You just hit the Republicommies' core (twisted) values

summed up in two sentences:

1. Win at all costs
2. The ends justify the means

And they call themselves moral and Christian. I don't know why God doesn't deal with these double-dealing Republicommies once and for all! :mad:

[forgethell]

8. It does to us!!

Progressives shouldn't cheat.

But what does cheating involve? Mistakes by the referees, as in your football examplem are not, IMO, "cheating", just the breaks of the game. Of course, if the ref had been bribed, then it would be.

Telling lies?? Well, I really hate to give that a pass, but I've watched politics for a long time, and lies seem to be part of the game, like bluffing in poker. It the "lies" are simply an interpretation of events and policies, again I don't see this as cheating. Intelligent people of good faith can disagree honestly. On the other hand, deliberate misstating of facts is, "cheating", IMO. Deliberately misstating your positions, what you are going to do when you get office, would be cheating, IMO.

[kentuck]

9. But would that be cause for disqualification ??

I guess that is the question that needs to be asked?

[struggle4progress]

10. Philosophical issues should be resolved in context.

[Telly Savalas]

11. I can't speak for the general principle...

but in the specific case you mention, Colorado got the extra down because God hates the University of Missouri and all the evil it represents.