Do Republican brains lack the capacity for empathy?

[Cadence]

"Do the brains of Republicans and Democrats work differently?

Researchers at UCLA are trying to find out, employing functional magnetic resonance imaging to literally peer inside voters' heads to see how they respond to candidates, the Associated Press reports.

In a recent experiment, AP says, Drs. Joshua Freedman and Marco Iacoboni scanned the brains of 10 Republicans and 10 Democrats while they viewed images of President Bush, John Kerry and Ralph Nader:"

snip


http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/buzz/archives/003696.html

[ogradda]

1. that's interesting because i've wondered that

eom.

[Cadence]

5. Now that I think more about it

Actually I think that's really true because if you've ever gotten into a conversation with a conservative there is this weird thing they do where they refuse to question their own logic which I believe is really rooted in the inability to see another's point of view(empathy). The dialogue usually comes to a screeching halt when the conservative has run down their list of things to project out at you and that's it.
Whereas democrats tend to be extremely empathetic putting more value on humanity then materialism. You know the worst thing you can tell a democrat is that their not being empathetic and they know that and every time they use that card it stops us in our tracks.
For example....we don't agree with the war in Iraq (we're thinking of the number of troops and innocent Iraqi civilians that have and will lose their lives)

Their response.... You don't support the troops. Your unpatriotic.
Our response...... Nothing.
They use our empathy against us.

You can go down the list of issues: taxes (we want social programs to help the disenfranchised) they call us tax and spend liberals. Using our empathy against us.

I bet you can do this with every issue.

[kiwi6]

10. Another Thought

You make a point, and I would love a conversation with you
about it...try a little different thought that may lead to the
fact that a FEW Republicans just MIGHT have empathy:

Saddam Hussein became president of Iraq on July 16, 1979 and
was deposed in April of 2003.Ê Over that twenty-four year
period, Saddam Hussein killed between 600,000 and 1,000,000
Iraqis and was responsible for the deaths of over 700,000
Iranians and Kuwaitis (here and here).Ê Utilizing only the
Iraqi numbers, this is an average of between 25,260 and 42,108
people a year, or between 2105 and 3509 Iraqi citizens a
month.Ê The United States toppledÊSaddam Hussein nineteen
months ago.Ê If Saddam had remained in power for those 19
months, between 39,995 and 66,671 Iraqis would have died,
children starved, dissidents fed through industrial shredders,
women strangled after visitsÊto rape roomsÊall to be
eventually reunited in remote mass graves.

So, by these figures, fifty thousand (50,000) Iraqis are alive
(and free) because of American policy. 

[Cadence]

15. Well...

I have a little different take on that.

For one thing Saddam was helped into power by the American Government.
Most of the atrocities that you are talking about happened when Reagan/Bush were in the White House and the administration was aware of them but still supported him during that time.

Yes he was evil. People died because of him.

On the same token because of our sanctions over 500,000 Iraqi's including children have died because of lack of food and medicine.
Close to 1 million Iraqi's have become ill or had children with severe birth defects because of our use of depleted uranium in the first gulf war which has a half life of 4 billion years.

Approximately 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed during this invasion.

I watched the war on arab satellite t.v. when it first began and saw the pictures of mutiliated children and women lying dead in the streets. It was sickening.
If your going to feign empathy and play the "they're better off card" then you better have your facts on all of the loss of life.

Yes it's good to get Saddam out. But there wasn't only one way to do it.
Do you KNOW any Iraqi's?

[kiwi6]

19. To Cadance

Actually I DO know some Iraqis and they are very pleased that the USA has given them freedom. They were begging for the USA to go in and get Saddam out. My son is there right now - I know what the "folks" are saying.

I DO know that it is the terrorists who so often kill their own people to make it look like the USA has done it.

I DO know that the sanctions didn't work because Saddam was taking most of the money for himself - he was bribing the French and other nations and was up to his eyeballs in corruption along with the UN. Don't just blame the US for all the civilian deaths - the sanctions were a UNITED NATIONS tool to help Iraq. He, along with the UN are GREATLY responsible for the sanctions debacle.


There is no feigned empathy here, dear...I'm ready to take off to the Sudan to help out over there. Why is it that we ONLY have to have empathy for the deaths that the US causes. Clinton bombed the Balkans and many civilans died...but we were able to rid that area from the cancerous Slobodan Milosevic. My relatives and yours bombed Germany 60 years ago and killed thousands - it was WAR that has brought PEACE to multitudes.

Also...I DO know how to spell: "you're" when I mean "you are."

[Cadence]

22. sigh

I myself know a lot of Iraqi's they have been like family to me and they have lost a lot of their relatives and the ones that are still over there aren't free right now there in the middle of a war. Those "terrorists" you speak of are other Iraqi citizens that don't want a democratic government installed for them, they don't want to be occupied. I know that there are many Iraqi's that are looking forward to life without Saddam but the reality of life for them TODAY does not escape me because I am not wearing rose colored glasses.

If you want me to believe that the largest loss of life suffered over there by the civilian population is because of insurgents trying to make troops look bad and not because of shock and awe bombs... not gonna happen. C'mon!

Sanctions weren't a tool to HELP Iraq they were used to control and punish Saddam.

I don't know why your empathy has to be so black and white and ONLY one way. I have empathy for the people that lost their lives under Saddam, and I have empathy for people that lost their lives by us taking him out. Why is that so complicated for you?

Oh I know because your focused on trivial little fucking spelling errors!! I get it! If war is your answer to peace ask yourself what would Jesus bomb......and then GO AWAY!! SANCTIMONIOUS RIGHT WING IDIOT!!!

[kiwi6]

24. Now who's being mean

It seems that you are unable to have this conversation without calling names and getting that wee "edge" in your voice...

Oh well....I tried

You know nothing about me and yet you call me:

sanctimonious
right wing
idiot
Freeper

You STILL can't use contractions - it's not a spelling error, dear...it's a grammatical error.

Maybe if you could settle down, then intelligent discussion might take place in DU.

The easy part of this discussion is to say that we ALL have empathy for those who suffer in the earth. You don't need to assume anything about me. My life's work is to help the suffering throughout the world - that is not sanctimonious...just a part of being human.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jasper 91]

31. You might get a better response if you weren't so patronising, 'dear'.

[newyawker99]

32. Hi kiwi6!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[BlueCaliDem]

16. Here A 44Year Study on "Conservatives" that can help explain...

...what makes a conservative, a conservative.
When I first read your post, I immediately remembered I'd filed a link to a 44 year study of the baffling minds of conservatives.

Here is the link:

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/firststone/conservatives_deconstructed/

It helped me at least get a clue what I was dealing with, AND--it confirmed that liberals, and progressives are, with regards to intellect, superior.
But that I knew. ;)

[pantouflard]

30. That is one scary article...

...because it describes most of my family to a "T." The results of that study just confirm the necessity of my choice to move to a galaxy far, far away as soon as I could.

[BlueCaliDem]

33. Really? I thought that study was empowering!

Reason being, is that I firmly believe, that Knowledge is Power (empowering).
"Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer."
Of course, it doesn't make it any less harder to swallow that there are still people in the world (and unfortunately, today, are helping scheisters into power) that haven't mentally evolved (out of choice, mind you!), but anything that helps people to understand, and educate themselves is never a scary thing, is it? :shrug:

[pantouflard]

34. Ya know, you are so right!

I think my lack of objectivity stems from the personal difficulties I deal with due to rabid right-wing family members. It's the people who scare me, not the study. In fact, since you have me thinking about it, I see that it actually helps me personally to have this information scientifically described. So thanks for making me think.

:)

[BlueCaliDem]

37. Well, You're Very Welcome, pantouflard! Glad I Could Offer...

...something of substance.
Good luck with them family members at Thanksgiving Dinner! :)

[jeff30997]

2. Republicans have brains ?

Well I'll be damned.

[pacalo]

3. Thanks for posting this.

The researchers' conclusion: At a subconscious level, Republicans were apparently not as bothered by what Democrats found alarming.

I've long suspected their lack of empathy, but I've always thought of them as cold-hearted as well -- at least what I've learned through scanning the Republican chat sites.

[Swamp Rat]

4. I thought they lacked hearts...

and their followers lacked brains.

[Cadence]

6. How can they look at pictures like that and NOT feel something

I wonder if they realize that Jesus would have looked Arab.

[Swamp Rat]

7. Right!

... unlike the California-surfer-looking dude in my pic.

[Cadence]

8. LOL! Jesus would probably dig surfing. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

9. Oh, I almost forgot. Welcome to DU!

[Cadence]

11. Thanks!

:toast:

[kiwi6]

13. Jesus looked like an ARAB?

Cadence - you said: "I wonder if they realize that Jesus would have looked Arab."

Hmmmm...really? I think you meant to say that He would have looked like a JEW! Ironic isn't it.

Doesn't matter to me...He is great no matter what He looks like

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kiwi6]

20. Well...well...

Now, now Cadance - you started this by saying:

"...if you've ever gotten into a conversation with a conservative there is this weird thing they do where they refuse to question their own logic which I believe is really rooted in the inability to see another's point of view..."

You just got your facts wrong about Jesus being an Arab and when it is pointed out you explode into a tizzy.

Maybe it is YOU who must be a conservative, because you are unable to be logical afterall. Just a simple..."you're right on that one'" would have suffice and the conversation could continue in a civil manner.

[Cadence]

23. I DIDN'T SAY THAT

I said Jesus would have LOOKED Arab!

I didn't make a mistake you did idiot!

[kiwi6]

21. BTW

What's a FREEPER? Am I being insulted?

[Cadence]

18. Oh and

How do you look like a RELIGION btw?

I didn't realize people could look catholic.

[Dem2theMax]

27. Swamp Rat,

I love you. The pics you always put up -- they hit home more than any words could ever say.

And EVERY time I see that soldier with the tear running down his cheek, my heart breaks some more. As it should. sigh.

[Swamp Rat]

28. thanks

:hug:

[DELUSIONAL]

12. Not surprising -- many of us at DU have noted a lack of empathy

in bush and his followers -- as part of their personality structure. As recently as two weeks ago I've written in DU threads than bushie lacks the empathy gene -- and this gene is lacking in his whole family --that why they think his is "normal". We must know our enemies -- because ROVE knows us.

I've read threads on DU about learned helplessness -- again this is basic Psy 101 stuff.

ALso note that the article mentios the amygdala region of the brain -- bush/rove were using American's more primitive emotions -- unthinking fear response -- memory of fear -- in order to control the American population. They were using hard core psyOps -- Learned helplessness -- this stuff is also found in Psy 101 text books. Rove didn't have to be a genius -- just some basic Psy Ops bed time reading did the trick.


And when voters were shown a Bush ad that included images of the Sept. 11 attacks, the amygdala region of the brain - which lights up for most of us when we see snakes - illuminated more for Democrats than Republicans. The researchers' conclusion: At a subconscious level, Republicans were apparently not as bothered by what Democrats found alarming.

Amygdala -- more about this part of the brain:

Learning and responding to stimuli that warn of danger involves neural pathways that send information about the outside world to the amygdala, which in turn, determines the significance of the stimulus and triggers emotional responses like freezing or fleeing as well as changes in the inner workings of the body's organs and glands (1). There are important distinctions to make between emotions and feelings. Feelings are "red herrings", products of the conscious mind, labels given to unconscious emotions (2) whereas emotions are distinct patterns of behaviors of neurons. Emotions can exist of conscious experiencesas well as physiological and neurological reactions and voluntary and involuntary behaviors (3). But the components of fear goes beyond feelings and emotions. It is also the specific memory of the emotion. After a frightful experience, one can remember the logical reasons for the experience (e.g. the time and place) but one will also "feel" the memory, and his body will react as such (i.e. increased heart and respiration rate, sweating). In one recent case, after a near drowining incident, the victim could not only vividly remember each detail, but when doing so, his body reacted as though he were reliving the experience. These feelings of memory are stored in an almond shaped structure in the brain known as the amygdala.

<snip> learned fear (my comments -- the color coded alerts -- all political -- depending on bushie's standing in the polls -- the alert terror warnings -- manipulated their learned fear learned emotional responses -- stored in the amygdala.)

Through the usage of fear conditioned rats in laboratory settings, researchers have been able to effectively map out the "fear circuit". The fear circuit is stimulated in rats by means of placing the animals in metal boxes and subjecting them to foot-shocks associated with an auditory signal. This method effectively conditions the rats to fear both the metal boxes in which they had experienced pain and the corresponding auditory signal. After experiencing these stimuli, the rats, when exposed to the auditory signal, react with fear. The same fear is expressed when placed inside of the conditioning box, whether or not foot-shocks were applied. Through these experiments, it has been determined that the amygdala is required for both the fear circuit and the memory of fear (conditioned fear) associated with stimuli. These determinations were made through selective lesions of the auditory pathway through to the amygdala. Only when selective lesions were made on the amygdala, did the laboratory animals not respond to the frightening stimuli.

<snip>
There is much correlation between the emotional states of fear. Anxiety, distress, and fear are closely related negative emotional states associated with physical or psychological harm. These three emotions can be differentiated by the temporal relationship between the feeling and the potential threat. Anxiety is characterized by the anticipation of being harmed in the future, where as fear is characterized as the anticipation of being harmed in the present. Distress is characterized by the awareness of being harmed at this particular moment. The three emotions can diffuse into one single diffuse state (5).

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro98/202s98-paper2/Holt2.html

[Cadence]

25. That's funny you posted this

because doing research on brain mapping and function is what led me to this article in the first place.
Sometimes when you look around at how easy it is for them to manipulate people into believing what they want them to believe it does seem like Karl Rove is a genius but really your comment is right most of it is basic psychological principles. It's amazing the percentage of the population that are very nearly living in that "unthinking fear response state"

Thanks for posting this. :)

[Anakin Skywalker]

38. It's True! It's Damn True!

"..a lack of empathy in bush and his followers".

I can testify to this, having wasted much time debating and having conversations with them in the past. They make me sick!

[Andromeda]

14. I could have told you this....

<The researchers' conclusion: At a subconscious level, Republicans were apparently not as bothered by what Democrats found alarming.>

Republican's brains are more reptilian in nature than Democrat's brains. Republicans are ruled more by the limbic system, like lizards. :crazy:

[izzie]

29. I find this hard to take. My father was really a Republican but

also a very soft hearted man to people who were willing to work or had had hard times. He helped every one but he still felt FDR was the main problem with this country. Looking back I think it was he had to pay so much in tax and he was in the high rated group when they really taxed men like him. He also did not believe a union should run his businesses as it was his money that started them. He was very good to his men who worked for him. I think this Republican party is not the one that used to be around. He also thought war was a big waste . Used to say you can not build a country with goods you make to blow up. I guess it is not the same party. I am not the only person I know that left that party years ago. My God I grew up with booklets of church/state on the coffee table.It was evil in my home.I think we will have to call this the Right-wing of the Republican party. Those people are mean.

[lynintenn]

35. My daughter-in-law

is a repug. She belongs in the so called christain right. She is the most materialistic, selfish and greedy person I have ever met. She thinks all entitlement programs shoulds be eliminated. Her main reason for voting for Bush was the tax cuts.

[Logansquare]

36. The differing response to images of 9/11 attacks was interesting

"And when voters were shown a Bush ad that included images of the Sept. 11 attacks, the amygdala region of the brain - which lights up for most of us when we see snakes - illuminated more for Democrats than Republicans. The researchers' conclusion: At a subconscious level, Republicans were apparently not as bothered by what Democrats found alarming."

[kiwi6]

39. What were Democrats alarmed at?

I am interested to know what the Republicans were bothered by, and what Democrats were bothered by. I object to the use of broad brush strokes that put forth the premise in this thread that:

¥ Republicans are all idiots with no brains - Democrats are definitely more intelligent
¥ Republicans are all suffering from a huge lack of empathy - Democrats care more for people

It is true that Democrats seem to have a great concern for human life and values, but if we are going to come across as an intelligent group of people then we need to argue with a little more objectivity than has been shown here. Yes?

[Logansquare]

41. Well, I believe they are tracking empathy levels

Like all personality traits, it has to be "operationalized," i.e. quantified in such a way that it can be measured. "Sadness," for example, can operationalized by a subjective sense that is reported by a subject, the facial expressions of the subjects based on a measurable standard, or on their replies to a psychological survey, such the Beck Depression inventory. This is a short news article, so very little of the methodology was discussed.

In order for it to be valid research, it must be conducted "double blind," so that the subject doesn't know exactly what is being tested, and the actual people who administer the test don't know other variables about the subject, for example, what political affiliation they are, or how they scored on a written personality test.

One thing the article doesn't make clear is that the scene of 9/11 was part of a Bush commercial. It's possible that the level of distress felt by Democratic subjects was in part because the attack was being used as political capital by Bush.

I'd be really interested in seeing this research when its published. I have had experiences when talking to certain types of conservatives that indicated to me that they were almost defiantly non-empathetic. Of course the mean response by one group doesn't mean there aren't "outliers" in both parties. I've met kindly Republicans and jerk Democrats, but they have been the exceptions that proved the rule.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Zorra]

42. I have speculated on this for years and have come to the conclusion

that they do.