The McGovern Endorsement of Clark

[End Evil]

I believe it necessary to address this head-on because I have seen some sarcastic remarks on other threads.

Apparently, from what I glean, it seems incongruous that DUers for Clark would have a history of liking McGovern.

In an effort to dissuade those of that opinion, allow me to relate:


My first vote ever was for Senator George McGovern for President

and

My next vote will be for General Wesley Clark for President


People would be well-advised to read McGovern's statement in order to see why this endorsement makes perfect sense.

Please don't put us DUers for Clark into some box that doesn't fit.

Thank you very much for reading this.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

1. I Love McGovern the Man, But Hate His Landslide Loss

That's the difference. I believe most Clark supporters are smart enough to be able to keep it separate.

DTH

[End Evil]

3. Right.

They both are war heroes.

They both have good hearts.

They both are liberals.



It was not supporters of Clark I was addressing, although I would certainly love to see all of us weigh in on this topic.

The sarcastic remarks came from supporters of another candidate and they were most unseemly and lacking in understanding of the complexities of life. Clark has been attacked for not having been a Democrat, which is a strawman due to the voter patterns of Arkansans. However, we have been attacked as war mongers or something akin to that. That is why I wanted supporters of other candidates to understand it makes perfect sense to have voted for McGovern and to be voting for Clark.



:yourock:

[arewethereyet]

8. Clark supporters can keep it seperate, what of everyone else ?

I would think that this matters far more. I mean Clark supporters already support him. He's going to need a lot more to win anything. So does it help or hurt to those people ?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

12. I Think a Lot of Democrats Still Respect McGovern the Man

Accordingly, his vouching for Clark will be a positive thing.

I don't think they will "guilt-by-association" Clark's electability. So I guess I'm saying that most Democrats are smart enough to keep it separate, too.

DTH

[arewethereyet]

28. its a whole lot better than Michael Moore, I'll give it that

I think the biggest liability to it would be in the GE if it gets that far.

[ulysses]

2. no, the irony is

in the glee of many Clark supporters over the endorsement when a few months ago the mantra was that Dean couldn't win because he's supposedly a latter-day McG.

[End Evil]

4. I was unaware of any such glee.

However, this morning there is a thread in which there was an attack by a supporter of Dean's on this issue. That comes from today; that is why I wanted to post this.

Thank you for informing me of what happened here a few months ago as well.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. See My Post #1, Above

McGovern's endorsement helps shore up Clark in an area he is perceived to be weak by some, his liberal credentials. Accordingly, this is a very helpful and timely endorsement.

DTH

[ulysses]

7. I'm not saying it's not a good endorsement.

It is. I'm just curious as to why Clark's more centrist supporters aren't wailing that this makes him "another McGovern".

[DoveTurnedHawk]

10. See My Post #1

:-)

We're smart enough to be able to keep it separate. McGovern is vouching for his liberal creds; I don't think McGovern's lack of electability will "rub off" as a result.

DTH

[ulysses]

15. just seems a facile separation to me.

The McGovern slam (and it has been used as a slam) was based on the fact that he's perceived as an out-of-touch liberal, and therefore unelectable. Separating the two doesn't wash for me, having defended the man against "party realists" for some time.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. I Can Only Speak for Myself, But

The negative comparison I used was between McGovern and Dean, on the basis that they both appeared/appear to believe you can almost solely run to the Democratic base and win. (And yes, I'm aware that Howard Dean pays lip service to running to the middle after the primaries, but I don't believe that will be possible for him in this election.)

Since Clark is not doing that, I don't think it's a valid comparison. In contrast, I'll take the support of just about anyone for Clark, since it proves his diversity of appeal and, in this case, it shores up his liberal credentials.

DTH

[ulysses]

23. seems to me like you're splitting hairs, DTH.

If McGovern was unelectable because he's liberal - and that *is* the understood meaning behind calling someone a "McGovern" - then those who worry about the candidate being too liberal should worry about McG coming out for Clark. It's that simple, istm.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

25. I'm Not Worried, Though

Clark is a liberal perceived as moderate. McGovern's endorsement alone will not change that perception, IMO, although it will allay the fears of some hard-core Democrats who were skeptical of Clark's bona fides and sincerity.

That's the beauty of a Clark candidacy. He has more teflon with the American public than most candidates by virtue of his military service and Southern heritage. The most educated about these things know that Clark is a liberal, IMO, but that trait is not perceived to be WHO he is by the general public.

DTH

[davsand]

36. To some being compared to McGovern is a slam.

And you know full well the media played it that way on Dean in the early days--they held up McGovern as some specter of the "evil libruls" just waiting to destroy our country. Further, it was exactly the image of an idealistic campaign getting sent down in flames that they wanted to conjure up in every Dem mind. When they compared him to McGovern it was a deliberate attempt to link him to a "failed" liberal campaign.

The media will now use that same image against Clark if he's running against a GOP candidate rather than other Dems. In the primary, Clark will get some bump from McGovern's endorsement, but I dunno if it will do much more than sway a few of the undecided voters. It did make me proud as heck--but I love McGovern and anybody that has his respect is worthy of my serious look.

FWIW, I kinda see it as a twisted form of flattery to be compared to McGovern. He ran one of the first real grass roots campaigns, and he mobilized a lot of people. The love they held for him is evident to this day. That is no small thing to be compared to!

Pax to you.

Laura

[ulysses]

37. Hi, Laura

I agree with you here, and although I'm with depakote in my concern about Clark and the SOA, McGovern's endorsement carries enough weight with me to make me take another look at Clark.

The new centrist stance toward McG since the endorsement still annoys the hell out of me, though. :)

Peace to you too, my friend. :hi:

[Jerseycoa]

18. Maybe his more centrist supporters are

wailing somewhere on earth. I haven't seen a lot of them here on DU, which attracts more liberals than centrists.

[Cogito]

38. Because Dean is the next McGovern

<humor> There can only be one next McGovern per election cycle...that is the rule...and Dean is it. Dean is the next McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis. Clark can only be Clinton, because he is from Arkansas or Eisenhower because he is a general. Oh, and don't ask if Dean can be Kennedy...Kerry is Kennedy because both are from Massachussets, rich and veterans. Dean can't be Truman either because Gephardt is Truman since both are from Missouri. Finally, Dean can't even be Gore since that role is reserved for Edwards, who like Gore would surely lose his own home southern state to Bush in the general election.</humor>;)

Seriously, Clark's problem has been that he is tagged as too Republican. McGovern's endorsement solves that problem. Dean's problem is that he is seen as too liberal. An endorsement by McGovern would not have helped him.

[ulysses]

39. LOL

:D Maybe the next Stevenson.

Or just the first Dean...;-)

[lurk_no_more]

29. No one said dean was McGovern

It's his campaign that will be "LIKE" McGovern's, McGovern is a great man and was a great candidate, it was his campaign, like deans, that was a no win.

McGovern was the Dem's Dem and his endorsement of Clark says it all, the thing that is ironic is that candidate dean spouts how he wants to rearrange the party back to what it was, yet Clark is getting the endorsements from those Dems that WERE the party of what it was, while dean is gettig the endorsements from the same party he wants to rearrange, now THAT is irony!

Spin it however you like, but an endorsement from McGovern is not an indication of campaigning "Like" McGovern.



And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[Josh]

6. The MOST important thing about this is that Clark voted for Nixon -

McGovern's endorsement proves that Clark is not the Republican in Sheep's clothing that many people think. McGovern even said so. If McGoverno can endorse Clark and declare him "A Democrat's Democrat," that really ought to be enough for the rest of us. It certainly is for me. I'll be watching the General with much anticipation in the next few weeks.

[rucky]

9. Yep, time to put that debate to bed.

Clark is a "real Democrat" - whatever that means.

[depakid]

11. Had McGovern endorsed Dean....

I wonder what the prevailing response would be among Clark supporters?

No, strike that. I don't think there's any wonder. :think:

[jonnyblitz]

13. I hear that.

snicker.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. I Probably Would Have Made Snarky Comments

But then McGovern's endorsement would not have been as useful for Dean as it is for Clark, since Dean's liberal credentials (even though he's actually quite moderate) are not under attack by the other candidates. And also because Dean already has a raftload of endorsements, thus diluting future ones slightly.

DTH

[depakid]

26. Actually, your analysis is spot on

McGovern's endorsement is a nice feather in the general's hat. And a timely one too, going into New Hampshire. I think it lends credibility from the left, where some have expressed doubts as to Clark's past support of Republicans and some of his recent remarks in support of the SOA.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

27. Thanks

I also like to think I'm intellectually honest enough to call myself on my own snarky BS, even when it never actually happened.

:-)

DTH

[End Evil]

17. That is precisely the kind of post

to which I referred.

Please don't put us in a box.

To repeat: my 1st vote was for McGovern; my next will be for Clark.

[Jerseycoa]

16. Let it slide. McGovern is a great hero

to the Baby Boom generation, as you know and I know and some others who are old enough or read history know. It just hurts them to have had Jimmy Carter behave with dignity and not endorse early, so they are mad as hornets. Bzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[End Evil]

20. Sorry.

I was offended by what I read in other threads with messages posted today.

I believe it is my right to try to set the record straight by posting my voting record thereby trying to get people to see things are not so easy to do 'drive by's' on.


BTW, your piece on Clark (on the Home Page) is wonderful and so I bow to you on that!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

21. Absolutely a Great Piece

Great job, jerseycoa!

:yourock:

DTH

[jonnyblitz]

22. well, I found the posts by your fellow Clark supporters

who always referred to McGovern as a "loser" quite offensive myself. Sorry if we bother you by pointing out the irony of this. :eyes:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

24. But McGovern WAS a "Loser"

Not in the holistic, he's a lousy human being sense, but in the strictly pragmatic sense that he lost the election by a landslide.

:shrug:

DTH

[jonnyblitz]

30. well

I bet we don't hear the Dean =McGovern meme coming from your camp anymore.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

32. Probably Not

There is such a thing as loyalty, after all.

But then we still have Mondale and Dukakis to compare him to, so we're all good. :D

DTH

[returnable]

33. Maybe. Maybe not.

I mean, do you think this will put an end to the "But... But... He voted for Nixon!" meme coming from the Dean camp? :hi:

[jonnyblitz]

35. did Nixon speak from the grave and endorse Dean?

all kidding aside, that doesn't bother me about Clark. Support of SOA is the main thing, to be honest. :hi:

[End Evil]

34. Perhaps I am not representative of

DU Clark supporters. Apparently, there has been a history on DU to which I was not exposed.

Your educational commentary about what I have missed is quite interesting and in no way do I feel 'bothered' by having the (DU) irony pointed out! Just relating my own personal experience.

[Jerseycoa]

31. Certainly your right

Excuse me if I seemed to imply otherwise, I didn't mean to. And thank you and DTH for the nice compliments. :)