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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:24 AM
Original message
PLEASE HELP: I have written a detailed report on the voting/fraud issues
It is long, because it has to be, because there is so much data to be dealt with. I've crunched something like 200 DU threads, along with information from other sources, to compile this.

If you can, I need two things:

1. More reports of electronic machines giving or taking votes;

2. More statistical analysis of how the voting in this election defied trends. I have one paragraph on Florida, but would very much like more.

Please note: THIS IS A ROUGH COPY, incomplete and unedited. Please don't send it anywhere. I have until 3pm on Sunday to get it right.

Also please note that truthout, where this will eventually be published in final form, is currently serving more than 6 million readers a month. We have a lot of readership on Capitol Hill, within what is left of the Kerry campaign, and within the mainstream media. Getting this right is important. Any help you can give is massively appreciated.

=====

Worse Than 2000: Tuesday’s Electoral Disaster
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Report

Monday 08 November 2004

Everyone remembers Florida’s 2000 election debacle, and all of the new terms it introduced to our political lexicon: Hanging chads, dimpled chads, pregnant chads, overvotes, undervotes, Sore Losermans, Jews for Buchanan and so forth. It took several weeks, battalions of lawyers and a questionable decision from the U.S. Supreme Court to show the nation and the world how messy democracy can be. By any standard, what happened in Florida during the 2000 Presidential election was a disaster.

What happened during the Presidential election of 2004, in Florida, in Ohio, and in a number of other states as well, was worse.

Some of the problems with this past Tuesday’s election will sound all too familiar. Despite having four years to look into and deal with the problems that cropped up in Florida in 2000, the ‘spoiled vote’ chad issue reared its ugly head again. According to a report by investigative journalist Greg Palast, the ‘spoiled’ vote problem wandered north to the all-important swing state of Ohio. “The election in Ohio,” reports Palast, “was not decided by the voters but by something called ‘spoilage.’ Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of the vote is voided, just thrown away, not recorded. When the bobble-head boobs on the tube tell you Ohio or any state was won by 51 percent to 49 percent, don't you believe it ... it has never happened in the United States, because the total never reaches a neat 100 percent. The television totals simply subtract out the spoiled vote. And not all votes spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African-American and minority precincts.”

“Ohio is one of the last states in America,” continues Palast, “to still use the vote-spoiling punch-card machines. And the Secretary of State of Ohio, J. Kenneth Blackwell, wrote before the election, ‘the possibility of a close election with punch cards as the state’s primary voting device invites a Florida-like calamity.’ But this week, Blackwell, a rabidly partisan Republican, has warmed up to the result of sticking with machines that have a habit of eating Democratic votes. Exactly how many votes were lost to spoilage this time? Blackwell's office, notably, won't say, though the law requires it be reported. Hmm. But we know that last time, the total of Ohio votes discarded reached a democracy-damaging 1.96 percent. The machines produced their typical loss - that's 110,000 votes - overwhelmingly Democratic.”

According to Palast, the ‘spoilage’ issue was not isolated to Ohio. “CNN said George Bush took New Mexico by 11,620 votes,” writes Palast. “New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts - Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin. Spoilage has a very Democratic look in New Mexico. Hispanic voters in the Enchanted State, who voted more than two to one for Kerry, are five times as likely to have their vote spoil as a white voter. Counting these uncounted votes would easily overtake the Bush 'plurality.' Already, the election-bending effects of spoilage are popping up in the election stats, exactly where we'd expect them: in heavily Hispanic areas controlled by Republican elections officials. Chaves County, in the ‘Little Texas’ area of New Mexico, has a 44 percent Hispanic population, plus African Americans and Native Americans, yet George Bush ‘won’ there 68 percent to 31 percent.”

The ruination of minority votes is no accident, according to another report filed by Palast http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110204V.shtml">on the day before the election. “It's not even Election Day yet,” writes Palast, “and the Kerry-Edwards campaign is already down by a almost a million votes. That's because, in important states like Ohio, Florida and New Mexico, voter names have been systematically removed from the rolls and absentee ballots have been overlooked - overwhelmingly in minority areas, like Rio Arriba County, New Mexico, where Hispanic voters have a 500 percent greater chance of their vote being ‘spoiled.’”

“Not everyone's vote spoils equally,” continues Palast. “Rio Arriba is 73 percent Hispanic. I asked nationally recognized vote statistician Dr. Philip Klinkner of Hamilton College to run a ‘regression’ analysis of the Hispanic ballot spoilage in the Enchanted State. He calculated that a brown voter is 500 percent more likely to have their vote spoiled than a white voter. It's bad for Hispanics; but for African Americans, it's a ballot-box holocaust. An embarrassing little fact of American democracy is that, typically, two million votes are spoiled in national elections, registering no vote or invalidated. Based on studies by the U.S. Civil Rights Commission and the Harvard Law School Civil Rights project, about 54 percent of those ballots are cast by African Americans. One million black votes vanished.”

Four years later, and none of the Florida problems were fixed. In fact, by all appearances, they spread. Worse, these problems only scratch the surface of what appears to have happened in Tuesday’s election. The fix that was put in place to solve these problems - the Help America Vote Act passed in 2002 after the Florida debacle - appears to have gone a long way towards making things worse by orders of magnitude, for it was the Help America Vote Act which introduced paperless electronic touch-screen voting machines to millions of voters across the country.

At first blush, it seems like a good idea. Forget the chads, the punch cards, the archaic booths like pianos standing on end with the handles and the curtains. This is the 21st century, so let’s do it with computers. A simple screen presents straightforward choices, and you touch the spot on the screen to vote for your candidate. Your vote is recorded by the machine, and then sent via modem to a central computer which tallies the votes. Simple, right?

Not quite.

Is there any evidence that these machines went haywire on Tuesday? A quick look at the news wires offers some examples:

* In Broward County, Florida, election workers were shocked to discover that their shiny new machines were counting backwards. “Tallies should go up as more votes are counted,” according to this report. “That's simple math. But in some races, the numbers had gone down. Officials found the software used in Broward can handle only 32,000 votes per precinct. After that, the system starts counting backward.”

* In Franklin County, Ohio, electronic voting machines gave Bush 3,893 extra votes in one precinct alone. “Franklin County's unofficial results gave Bush 4,258 votes to Democratic challenger John Kerry's 260 votes in Precinct 1B,” according to this report. “Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, said Bush received 365 votes there. The other 13 voters who cast ballots either voted for other candidates or did not vote for president.”

* In Craven County, North Carolina, a software error on the electronic voting machines awarded Bush 11,283 extra votes. “The Elections Systems and Software equipment,” according to this report, “had downloaded voting information from nine of the county's 26 precincts and as the absentee ballots were added, the precinct totals were added a second time. An override, like those occurring when one attempts to save a computer file that already exists, is supposed to prevent double counting, but did not function correctly.”

* In Carteret County, North Carolina, “More than 4,500 votes may be lost in one North Carolina county because officials believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. Local officials said UniLect Corp., the maker of the county's electronic voting system, told them that each storage unit could handle 10,500 votes, but the limit was actually 3,005 votes. Officials said 3,005 early votes were stored, but 4,530 were lost.”

* In LaPorte County, Indiana, a Democratic stronghold, the electronic voting machines decided that each precinct only had 300 voters. “At about 7 p.m. Tuesday,” according to this report, “it was noticed that the first two or three printouts from individual precinct reports all listed an identical number of voters. Each precinct was listed as having 300 registered voters. That means the total number of voters for the county would be 22,200, although there are actually more than 79,000 registered voters.”

* In Sarpy County, Nebraska, the electronic touch screen machines got generous. “As many as 10,000 extra votes,” according to this report, “have been tallied and candidates are still waiting for corrected totals. Johnny Boykin lost his bid to be on the Papillion City Council. The difference between victory and defeat in the race was 127 votes. Boykin says, ‘When I went in to work the next day and saw that 3,342 people had shown up to vote in our war, I thought something's not right.’ He's right. There are not even 3,000 people registered to vote in his ward. For some reason, some votes were counted twice.”

Stories like this have been popping up in many of the states that put these touch-screen voting machines to use. Beyond these reports are the folks who attempted to vote for one candidate and http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/4154/">saw the machine give their vote to the other candidate. Sometimes, the flawed machines were taken off-line, and sometimes they were not. As for the reports above, the mistakes described were caught and corrected. How many mistakes made by these machines were not caught, were not corrected, and have now become part of the record?

The flaws within these machines are well documented. The companies that manufacture these machines have refused to let anyone test the computer code for serious errors. Many of these machines do not provide the voter with a piece of paper that verifies their vote. So if an error - or purposefully inserted malicious code - in the untested machine causes their vote to go for the other guy, they have no way to verify that it happened. The lack of a paper receipt also means the end of recounts as we have known them; now, on these new machines, a recount amounts to pushing a button on the machine and getting a number in return, but without those paper receipts to do a comparison, there is no way to verify the validity of that count.

Worst of all is the fact that all the votes collected by these machines is sent via modem to a central tabulating computer which counts the votes on Windows software. This means, essentially, that any gomer with access to the central tabulation machine who knows how to work an Excel spreadsheet can go into this central computer and make wholesale changes to election totals without anyone being the wiser.

Bev Harris, who has been working tirelessly since the passage of the Help America Vote Act to inform people of the dangers present in this new process, got a chance to demonstrate how easy it is to steal an election on that central tabulation computer while a guest on the CNBC program ‘Topic A With Tina Brown.’ Ms. Brown was off that night, and the guest host was none other than Governor Howard Dean. Thanks to Governor Dean and Ms. Harris, anyone watching CNBC that night got to see just how easy it is to steal an election because of these new machines and the flawed processes they use.

"In a voting system," Harris said on the show, "you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at once? What surprises people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I use. It's just a regular computer.”

Harris then proceeded to open a laptop computer that had on it the software used to tabulate the votes by one of the aforementioned central processors. Journalist Thom Hartman describes what happened next: “So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS software, go back to the normal Windows PC desktop, click on the ‘My Computer’ icon, choose ‘Local Disk C:,’ open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder ‘LocalDB’ which, Harris noted, ‘stands for local database, that's where they keep the votes.’ Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled Central Tabulator Votes,’ which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database program like Excel. ‘Let's just flip those,’ Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers from one cell into the other. Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, ‘We just edited an election, and it took us 90 seconds.’”

Any system that makes it this easy to steal or corrupt an election has no business being anywhere near the voters on election day. The counter-argument to this states that people with nefarious intent, people with a partisan stake in the outcome of an election, would have to have access to the central tabulation computers in order to do harm to the process. Keep the partisans away from the process, and everything will work out fine. Surely no partisan political types were near these machines on Tuesday night when the votes were counted, right?

One of the main manufacturers of these electronic touch-screen voting machines is Diebold, Inc. More than 35 counties in Ohio alone used the Diebold machines on Tuesday, and millions of voters across the country did the same. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Diebold gave $100,000 to the Republican National Committee in 2000, along with additional contributions between 2001 and 2002 which totaled $95,000. Of the four companies competing for the contracts to manufacture these voting machines, only Diebold contributed large sums to any political party. The CEO of Diebold is a man named William O’Dell. O’Dell was very much on board with the Bush campaign, having said publicly in 2003 that he is “committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.”

So much for keeping the partisans at arm’s length.

Is there any evidence that vote totals were deliberately tampered with by people who had a stake in the outcome? Nothing specific has been documented to date. Jeff Fisher, the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District, claims to have evidence that the Florida election was hacked, and says further that he knows who hacked it and how it was done. Such evidence is not yet forthcoming.

There are, however, some disturbing and compelling trends that indicate things are not as they should be. This chart displays a breakdown of counties in Florida. It lists the voters in each county by party affiliation, and compares expected vote totals to the reported results. It also separates the results into two sections, one for ‘touch-screen’ counties and the other for optical scan counties.

Over and over in these counties, the results, based upon party registration, did not come close to matching expectations. In Liberty County, for one example, the registered voters are 88.3% Democrat, compared to 7.9% Republican. However, the results reported indicate that fully 65% of the votes cast for President went to Bush. In Duval County, Democrats outnumber Republicans on the voter rolls by 7%, and yet Bush won there by over 60,000 votes, winning the actual vote count by some 20%. In Baker county, there are only about 3,200 voters registered as Republicans, yet Bush got over 7,700 votes there. This trend continues throughout all the counties using the touch-screen electronic voting machines.

It can be argued that such results indicate nothing more or less than a President getting cross-over voters, as well as late-breaking undecided voters, to come over to his side. Yet the news wires have been inundated for well over a year with stories about how stridently united Democratic voters were behind the idea of removing Bush from office. Did these united Democratic voters suddenly have a dramatic change of heart? Did the undecided voters, which have historically always broken for the challenger, decide to defy well-documented electoral trends? It seems highly unlikely.

Most disturbing of all is the reality that these questionable results tabulated by Diebold voting machines are not isolated to Florida. This list documents, as of March 2003, all of the counties in all of the 37 states where Diebold machines were used to count votes. The document is 28 pages long. That is a lot of counties, and a lot of votes, left in the hands of machines that have a questionable track record, that send their vote totals to central computers which make it far too easy to change election results, that were manufactured by a company with a personal, financial, and publicly stated stake in George W. Bush holding on to the White House.

A poster named ‘TruthIsAll’ on the DemocraticUnderground.com forums laid out the questionable results of Tuesday’s election in succinct fashion: “To believe that Bush won the election, you must also believe: That the exit polls were wrong; that Zogby's 5pm election day calls for Kerry winning Ohio and Florida were wrong (he was exactly right in his 2000 final poll); that Harris’ last-minute polling for Kerry was wrong (he was exactly right in his 2000 final poll); that incumbent rule #1 - undecideds break for the challenger - was wrong; That the 50% rule - an incumbent doesn't do better than his final polling - was wrong; That the approval rating rule - an incumbent with less than 50% approval will most likely lose the election - was wrong; that it was just a coincidence that the exit polls were correct where there was a paper trail and incorrect (+5% for Bush) where there was no paper trail; that the surge in new young voters had no positive effect for Kerry; that Kerry did worse than Gore against an opponent who lost the support of scores of Republican newspapers who were for Bush in 2000; that voting machines made by Republicans with no paper trail and with no software publication, which have been proven by thousands of computer scientists to be vulnerable in scores of ways, were not tampered with in this election.”

In short, we have old-style vote spoilage in minority communities. We have electronic voting machines losing votes and adding votes all across the country. We have electronic voting machines whose efficiency and safety have not been tested. We have electronic voting machines that offer no paper trail to ensure a fair outcome. We have central tabulators for these machines running on Windows software, compiling results that can be demonstrably tampered with. We have the makers of these machines publicly professing there preference for George W. Bush. We have voter trends that stray from the expected results. We have these machines counting millions of votes all across the country.

Perhaps this can all be dismissed. Perhaps rants like the one posted by ‘TruthIsAll’ are nothing more than sour grapes from the side that lost. Perhaps all of the glitches, wrecked votes, unprecedented voting trends and partisan voting-machine connections can be explained away. If so, this reporter would very much like to see those explanations. At a bare minimum, the fact that these questions exist at all represents a grievous undermining of the basic confidence in the process required to make this democracy work. Democracy should not ever require leaps of faith, and we have put the fate of our nation into the hands of machines that require such a leap. It is unacceptable across the board, and calls into serious question not only the election we just had, but any future election involving these machines.

Representatives John Conyers, Jerrold Nadler and Robert Wexler, all members of the House Judiciary Committee, posted a letter on November 5th to David Walker, Comptroller General of the United States. In the letter, they asked for an investigation into the efficacy of these electronic voting machines. The letter reads as follows:

November 5, 2004

The Honorable David M. Walker
Comptroller General of the United States
U.S. General Accountability Office
441 G Street, NW
Washington, DC 20548

Dear Mr. Walker:

We write with an urgent request that the Government Accountability Office immediately undertake an investigation of the efficacy of voting machines and new technologies used in the 2004 election, how election officials responded to difficulties they encountered and what we can do in the future to improve our election systems and administration.

In particular, we are extremely troubled by the following reports, which we would also request that you review and evaluate for us:

In Columbus, Ohio, an electronic voting system gave President Bush nearly 4,000 extra votes. ("Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes," Associated Press, November 5)

An electronic tally of a South Florida gambling ballot initiative failed to record thousands of votes. "South Florida OKs Slot Machines Proposal," (Id.)

In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots could hold more data that it did. "Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes," (Id.)

In San Francisco, a glitch occurred with voting machines software that resulted in some votes being left uncounted. (Id.)

In Florida, there was a substantial drop off in Democratic votes in proportion to voter registration in counties utilizing optical scan machines that was apparently not present in counties using other mechanisms.

The House Judiciary Committee Democratic staff has received numerous reports from Youngstown, Ohio that voters who attempted to cast a vote for John Kerry on electronic voting machines saw that their votes were instead recorded as votes for George W. Bush. In South Florida, Congressman Wexler's staff received numerous reports from voters in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade Counties that they attempted to select John Kerry but George Bush appeared on the screen. CNN has reported that a dozen voters in six states, particularly Democrats in Florida, reported similar problems. This was among over one thousand such problems reported. ("Touchscreen Voting Problems Reported," Associated Press, November 5)

Excessively long lines were a frequent problem throughout the nation in Democratic precincts, particularly in Florida and Ohio. In one Ohio voting precinct serving students from Kenyon College, some voters were required to wait more than eight hours to vote. ("All Eyes on Ohio," Dan Lothian, CNN, November 3)

We are literally receiving additional reports every minute and will transmit additional information as it comes available. The essence of democracy is the confidence of the electorate in the accuracy of voting methods and the fairness of voting procedures. In 2000, that confidence suffered terribly, and we fear that such a blow to our democracy may have occurred in 2004.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this inquiry.

Sincerely,

John Conyers, Jr., Jerrold Nadler, Robert Wexler
Ranking Member, Ranking Member, Member of Congress
House Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on the Constitution

cc: Hon. F. James Sensenbrenner, Chairman


“The essence of democracy,” wrote the Congressmen, “is the confidence of the electorate in the accuracy of voting methods and the fairness of voting procedures. In 2000, that confidence suffered terribly, and we fear that such a blow to our democracy may have occurred in 2004.” Those fears appear to be valid.

John Kerry and John Edwards promised on Tuesday night that every vote would count, and that every vote would be counted. By Wednesday morning, Kerry had conceded the race to Bush, eliciting outraged howls from activists who were watching the reports of voting irregularities come piling in. Kerry had said that 10,000 lawyers were ready to fight any wrongdoing in this election. One hopes that he still has those lawyers on retainer.

According to black-letter election law, Bush does not officially get a second term until the electors from the Electoral College go to Washington D.C on December 12th. Perhaps Kerry’s 10,000 lawyers, along with a real investigation per the request of Conyers, Nadler and Wexler, could give those electors something to think about in the interim.

In the meantime, soon-to-be-unemployed DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe sent out an email on Saturday night titled ‘Help determine the Democratic Party's next steps.’ In the email, McAuliffe states, “If you were involved in these grassroots activities, we want to hear from you about your experience. What did you do? Did you feel the action you took was effective? Was it a good experience for you? How would you make it better? Tell us your thoughts.” He provided a feedback form where such thoughts can be sent.

Use the form. Give Terry your thoughts on the matter. Ask him if those 10,000 lawyers are still available. It seems the validity of Tuesday’s election remains a wide-open question.
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TeddyKGB Donating Member (728 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. While this is an important issue and should be addressed...
...DUers are still, by and large, on the sour grapes kick.

I want progress to be made on voter accuracy before the next election, but we have a Party to tear down and rebuild before then.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks for the lack of help
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TeddyKGB Donating Member (728 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Welcome.
Sounds to me like Bev Harris is on this. If the past is any indication, she'll continue to work hard on it.

There's simply nothing that can be done about the votes cast on November 2nd. Bush thinks he "earned political capital" for a mandate, and that should worry us a hell of a lot more.
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. Wro-ong. There is 1 thing that can be done about votes cast on Nov 2nd...
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 04:12 AM by henslee
They can be counted, for realzies. Voter fraud is the single greatest threat to our democracy. It might be the one issue that crosses party lines and the socio spectrum. And you want to dump it all on one underfunded woman who works out of her living room in Seattle? Teddy, either you are a freep... or you've been scraping the resin out of your big brothers bong again and I'm telling mom.
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
45. THEY CAN'T BE COUNTED
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 07:32 AM by brundle_seth
you are not listening, there is no paper trail, they are random numbers in a database, with no attached information.

Mr. Pitt

This article is excellent, I would point out that the MS program "Access" allows much quicker and simpler control over the GEM database files...

yes you can edit in Excel, but if you want to change simply and quickly to avoid attention, you would need to use a database software.

This software, is almost childish in it's development, as a GUI designer and owner of a small programming company we create several web related softwares, utilizing databases. We have built small e-commerces sites, selling things such as soaps or general trinkets, to creating massive intra-nets and wire transfers applications for banks or large corporations demanding security and faith in bullet proofing of the information. This GEM software wouldn't even get past the most basic of our security testing. We'd just never release it....in fact we'd probably fire the programmer who even suggested writing it so vunerably.

As best we can tell, it is grade school level programming.

we wouldnt even trust it to sell soap.

We know have the application, thanks to BBV, and we are going thru it with a fine tooth comb. We have also put the app up on the mega geek boards, there will be more to follow.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. Were can d/l the source zip? TIA nt
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
115. you can download it
and the supporting pdf documentation @

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

about a quarter down the page.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #45
65. Then The Paperless E-Votes Can Be ENTIRELY INVALIDATED
every county using paperless e-voting should be completely struck from all vote tallies.

They are entirely suspect and meaningless.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #45
74. Hey! Access has its uses, and it can be secured!
It just takes a lot of work, and isn't something you should be using for this type of application. Caveat: I haven't used it in a web based application because it becomes a HUGE ... pain in the tuckus. :)

Also, in NH we CAN validate the data because they HAVE a paper trail. :) Best, Ida (Access Developer)
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #74
117. I am not slamming MS Access
and there is lots to be slammed, but that is an entirely different discussion.

I am merely pointing out the back doors into the GEM program are so dammned many that it is almost like security wasnt even a fore-thought to it's creation.

We are all laughing at the unprofessional level of code as we test....until we remember the outcome of the election :(

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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
94. Teddy ? ...
Jam it up your ..... donkey .....
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
120. Um, Bev needs lots of help right now
Will Pitt is helping. Are you?
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
76. I absolutely DISAGREE with TeddyKGB. What we need is CONCRETE action.
which is what this is. I believe we need to INUNDATE the media and all members of Congress, Senate, House etc etc with FACTS.

Its not the whole job, but its part.

Real action is the best antidote to sour grapes.

We have our faith in Truth and Justice (the kind of truth borne out by FACTS, not the "truth" of some fairy tale full of conflicting messages bound in black leather). This is one of the many action steps we need to advance.


Wish I could help with info and stats..things went smoothly here in the boondocks of NY state. Lever voting machines. Tiny town. The local teeny tiny paper, whose cover page is usually a real estate ad, ran an ad from a local Calvary church, exhorting readers to "redeem" the vote and ask themselves if the candidate aligns him/herself with "God's standards". Don't know if that information is helpful, but there you have it.

Very Impressive Work!
GO GO GO!
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. When you get your energy back, you do it in a big way!
:toast: Excellent!

You mentioned not knowing who to contact yesterday when we 'talked' in that related thread, remember? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2626456#2626492
Well, I crashed myself right soon after that and didn't post my response, but you CAN help. We all can. Gather up indications of what is being studied. Maybe a bar chart. Anything that would whet the media's interest. Send it to the major newspapers. Forget TV, they're hopeless, except Dan Rather. The papers. The BIG papers. Plus the BBC, CBC, all foreign press. Here's the media contact list all in one place, pick and choose from there:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x816939

This story is getting legs. WE are the ones who have to help it run. Oh, h*ll, we have to make it SNOOPY-DANCE all over the world! LOL!

We are NOT backing down on this. We can all do a part, no matter how small. It all adds up in a big way. :toast:
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. thanks again, txindy! its so good to get a supportive reply!
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 12:44 PM by FizzFuzz
:D

**edited because I forgot to include the link. Duhh**
here's what I just posted, text of what I sent to Democrats.org on their feedback form. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1337601&mesg_id=1337601

Thanks to William Pitt for knocking himself out to put all this info in one easy to send letter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting bummed or needing to curse is ok, but we have got to encourage each other and keep encouraging each other to keep at it.

Some of us have alot of clout, some of us have energy to talk to many people, some of us have the gift of understanding and being able to support people feeling low. Every individual gift is necessary.

No matter what our individual differences and opinions, we need unity like the pukes do. Remember, their big base started out as small, scattered groups of nuts that most people steered clear of.

If we can identify a few clear goals and then stay on them united, consciously making efforts to set aside naysaying, we can get done what needs to be done.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. Absolutely. Well said!
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 12:20 PM by txindy
:hi: Very nice post you sent. We're rested and ready to hammer on this. :toast:

I'm serious about the email list to the newspapers, Rather, the BBC, and the CBC. I've sent them some info. to get them interested in or, at least, aware, of the growing evidence that an investigation is needed. I've picked email addresses from that list and used them. It takes longer than mass emailing, but I think we have a better chance of hitting the right targets with it and lower our risk of alerting the wrong ones. The time for the mass emails will be here soon enough, though! ;)

Together, we can get this done!

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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. you must have looked for it, since I forgot to include the link
what a yutz.

:dunce:
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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. that's right. can't do 2 things at once...
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Umm
If the implications of this are as staggering as they seem, no amount of party-building is going to help the Democrats.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I am sorry, you can have the best candidate in the world, but
he/she could never win if the votes aren't counted accurately.
Or deliberately given to the other candidate.
:eyes:
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
114. Seems you have the right direction on this one but we have to ensure
that elections for any office at any time have a way to recount.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. No reason to rebuild the party if the votes are stolen.
There will never be another election in this country that has any meaning other than entertainment if we allow this to continue. You could get the entire country to turn out for the Democrats, but when the machines are rigged, the Democrats will lose. Period.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
121. Exactly!!! n/t
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
80. Amazing. You don't even try to hide it.
Sour grapes or not, this isn't just about a "presidential election" or any other election for that matter, it's about a seriously flawed voting system that is affecting the will of the people. Bottom line. This can't continue because our country can't survive the jeopardy it puts us in.

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springhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
89. One thing you might take into account though.......
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 01:47 PM by springhill
From the different graphs that I have seen, it seems that the optical scan machines are the ones, in Florida anyway, that are way off and not the e-voting machines. I would check that out.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
95. "sour grapes kick."
Well, that sounds like a familiar right-wing phrase...

RL
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
101. TeddyKGB Donating member (61 posts)
Welcome to DU.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
106. Exactly back-asswards
Without a restoration of the American electorate's faith in an UNCOMPROMISED ACCURATE SYSTEM, the number of people compelled to vote will continue shrinking.

This is exactly what they want.

First fix the system, then worry about the party, or all the change you bring about will come to naught.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
110. mmm... sour grapes.... think I'll pour a glass... but you know...
Will Pitt has done more to build up the Democratic party than almost anyone, so shut yer piehole!

Great work, Will. It has been fascinating to watch this all come together here.

I agree with one of the other posters about checking on optical scanning in Fl, which seemed to be a bigger problem than the black boxes. Wouldn't optical scanning have a paper trail? And thus be a good place to start?
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
124. "Tear down and build"
Don't you mean...we have a party to fashion in the image of Jesus
(er-- I mean Bush) before the next election?

This "we have failed and need to take a hard right" gibberish is like SO PLAYED at this point.
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Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thank You! Great letter!
Hopefully, people will come forward with more evidence of this fraud, and I DO believe there was widespread fraud in this election.
Thank you for going the extra mile on this...it is so very important.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. Florida
I think it's optical scan machines, not touch screen machines, that gave strange results in Florida?
Since optical scan machines data are added up using a central tabulator, you presumably can cheat with those as well.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Please post verification of this
and thanks.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. I just saw other posts on this website that said that.
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 02:48 AM by lizzy
I am not sure but other posts said it's optical scan machines that were giving strange results?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. Check here, Will.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. Here is one source for that optiscan data
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 03:23 AM by tkmorris
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

This table shows discrepancies in Florida counties that used the optical scan ballots versus those that used touch-screens, or "black boxes". Not surprising is that there is a difference, what is surprising is that it is the optiscan counties that show results which at first glance defy logic.

The actual vote totals reported are compared to the party affiliation of the registered voters in each county. In touch-screen counties the results would appear to reflect the party affiliations of the voters in those counties, given a somewhat more motivated Democratic base. In the Optiscan counties, well, the results stink to high heaven. Have a look, you'll see what I mean.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. I believe that's why we're aiming for NH, first.
With a paper trail in NH (plus the cover of a Kerry win), Nader can determine if a recount in that state provides a pattern of 'miscounts' by the optical scanning machines. That will give us the leverage to investigate like machines in other states, including Ohio and Florida. At least, that's what I've understood from Bev Harris, Ida, and the originators of the other investigative threads.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You would think so
The difference is that with optical scan there is a "paper trail" that could be counted by hand if needed.
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Fla Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
81. Florida Observations
I've been reviewing numbers for the past few days, and this one struck me as a little odd.

Duval County in Florida was the scene for a lot of accusations in the 2000 vote, mostly for voter suppression. So it certainly deserves some scrutiny. Add to that the County Supervisor for Elections resigned suddenly for health reasons just prior to the 2004 elections. Duval County is considered to be Republican country, however the voter registration numbers do not bear that out. Here are the numbers for 2000 and 2004.

Republican

2000 Regs....152,008...36%
2004 Regs....190,111...41%
2000 Votes...152,098...58% / 98 more votes than registered Rep.
2004 Votes...219,251...45% / 29,140 more votes than registered Rep.

Democrat

2000 Regs....211,762...50%
2004 Regs....238,264...46%
2000 Vote....107,864...41%...Only 51% of Reg Dem count.
2004 Vote....158,121...42%...66% of Reg Dem count.

I know there are crossover voters, but the total turnout for Duval was 74% of registered voters. Republicans get 115% of their registration, while Dems get 66%. Doesn't seem right to me. But someone with a little more political statistics savvy should take a look.


Couple of other issues jumped out at me all in Florida:

Highlands County had 7,495 more votes than turnout.
Collier County had 943 more votes than turnout.
Miami-Dade had 51,979 more votes than turnout.
Palm Beach had 90,774 more votes than turnout.
Osceola had 18,589 more votes than turnout.
Volusia had 19,306 more votes than turnout.

At first I thought these may be absentee, but that seems a little high.

Escambia County had 18,193 fewer votes than voters.
Lee County had 1,001 fewer votes than voters.

These numbers may mean nothing, and may be normal for any general election. However I don't have the expertise to say whether these aberrations are normal or not.

I've put together several Excel spreadsheets for the Florida vote:
1.) 2004 Presidential Results, total vote/voter turnout by county, also showing which type of equipment was used.
2.) Voter Registration for 2000 & 2004, by Republicans/Democrats by county.
3.) Presidential Results, by county, Republican/Democrat 2000 & 2004.



http://orion.lunarpages.com/~pacifi3/FLA_VOTE.xls

Thanks to cmorea for providing web space for me to post these spreadsheets.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. I wrote this all today, and it's nearly 3am, and I am crashing
If I don't reply until Sunday morning, please don't feel like I'm ignoring your input.

THANK YOU for your help.
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
116. Will, I again thank you. You amaze me.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. This needs to be tighter
I would not start this article with a summation of Palast's findings
It bogs down & there has always been "spoilage" In American elections.
It's very important to include it but Edit it down.

Start with the Electronic Voting machine issues you will hook the reader that way. My 2 cents.



According to Palast, the ‘spoilage’ issue was not isolated to Ohio. “CNN said George Bush took New Mexico by 11,620 votes,” writes Palast. “New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts - Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin. Spoilage has a very Democratic look in New Mexico. Hispanic voters in the Enchanted State, who voted more than two to one for Kerry, are five times as likely to have their vote spoil as a white voter. Counting these uncounted votes would easily overtake the Bush 'plurality.' Already, the election-bending effects of spoilage are popping up in the election stats, exactly where we'd expect them: in heavily Hispanic areas controlled by Republican elections officials. Chaves County, in the ‘Little Texas’ area of New Mexico, has a 44 percent Hispanic population, plus African Americans and Native Americans, yet George Bush ‘won’ there 68 percent to 31 percent.”

The ruination of minority votes is no accident, according to another report filed by Palast on the day before the election. “It's not even Election Day yet,” writes Palast, “and the Kerry-Edwards campaign is already down by a almost a million votes. That's because, in important states like Ohio, Florida and New Mexico, voter names have been systematically removed from the rolls and absentee ballots have been overlooked - overwhelmingly in minority areas, like Rio Arriba County, New Mexico, where Hispanic voters have a 500 percent greater chance of their vote being ‘spoiled.’”

“Not everyone's vote spoils equally,” continues Palast. “Rio Arriba is 73 percent Hispanic. I asked nationally recognized vote statistician Dr. Philip Klinkner of Hamilton College to run a ‘regression’ analysis of the Hispanic ballot spoilage in the Enchanted State. He calculated that a brown voter is 500 percent more likely to have their vote spoiled than a white voter. It's bad for Hispanics; but for African Americans, it's a ballot-box holocaust. An embarrassing little fact of American democracy is that, typically, two million votes are spoiled in national elections, registering no vote or invalidated. Based on studies by the U.S. Civil Rights Commission and the Harvard Law School Civil Rights project, about 54 percent of those ballots are cast by African Americans. One million black votes vanished.”
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. I agree.
I also like to hear your voice instead of Pallast's in this article. I feel like we get to the "good stuff" after you've worked through this part.

You may want to consider the list of irregularities earlier in the article, and talking spoilage later. Somehow the irregularities are more compelling. But that's just my .02.

Great work, Will!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Many thanks. You may be right. Anyone else agree?
I'm more than happy to cut if it'll help. IMHO, it's part of the overall story: Not only are the old problems still around, but the fix for the old problems has led to new problems. Perhaps only providing links to Palast will do the trick.

Anyone else agree?
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
37. Absolutely not, in fact just the opposite
I would argue very early in the article that this election might still be ongoing, or would have continued until Thursday, if not for the identical problems of 2000; spoiled punch cards, this time in Ohio. The likely numbers in favor of Kerry would have sliced Bush's lead to the point the provisionals could have put him over the top. No way that info should be eliminated or buried. IMO it calls for a follow-up on why those punch cards were allowed to exist in such a critical state as Ohio this time, period.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
66. I Agree That Vote Spoilage Is Of Lesser Import. It Always Happens &
think of Public Relations... too many people figure it's people who aren't bright enough to punch a ballot properly.

Further, if people want a really good look at this subject... they may as well read Palast's article.

It dampens the paperless e-voting issue.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
67. I agree too, I think you're burying the lead.
But I do agree with you that the Palast stuff is relevant, too.

In other words I'm no help at all.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
70. I agree. I think the fraud issue is far more compelling.
The media has pretty much made spoilage and hanging chads a joke. Doesn't mean you shouldn't include spoilage since we're talking a lot of Democratic votes, but I wouldn't lead with it.

Otherwise, an excellent article.
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Bozos for Bush Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. Sincere thanks William Pitt, for your efforts (n/t)
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Lilli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. This isn't statistical info and may not be relevant to your efforts
but for what its worth...

"...But, in a twist of Fate, 9 of the 10 counties with the highest unemployment rates in Ohio went to Bush. No one could have predicted that the Presidency of the United States would rest in the hands of these few voters! It gave Bush the win – but, the win was clearly a fluke..."

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_10499.shtml">Washington Post Article
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. A possible typo, Will:
Under Sharpy County, Nebraska irregularities:

Boykin says, ‘When I went in to work the next day and saw that 3,342 people had shown up to vote in our war, I thought something's not right.’

"war" should be "ward"?


Other than that, this is powerful stuff. I look forward to the final draft.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
17. It's great to see that your addressing this issue. It's a lot of info to
weave together. I think you should mention the findings of Johns Hopkins University when they did a study of electronic voting machines. It would make a stronger argument to include an academic analysis that said these machines had far below even the most minimal security standards.

Here's a link that I found.

http://avirubin.com/vote/analysis/index.html

Abstract
With significant U.S. federal funds now available to replace outdated punch-card and mechanical voting systems, municipalities and states throughout the U.S. are adopting paperless electronic voting systems from a number of different vendors. We present a security analysis of the source code to one such machine used in a significant share of the market. Our analysis shows that this voting system is far below even the most minimal security standards applicable in other contexts. We identify several problems including unauthorized privilege escalation, incorrect use of cryptography, vulnerabilities to network threats, and poor software development processes. We show that voters, without any insider privileges, can cast unlimited votes without being detected by any mechanisms within the voting terminal software. Furthermore, we show that even the most serious of our outsider attacks could have been discovered and executed without access to the source code. In the face of such attacks, the usual worries about insider threats are not the only concerns; outsiders can do the damage. That said, we demonstrate that the insider threat is also quite considerable, showing that not only can an insider, such as a poll worker, modify the votes, but that insiders can also violate voter privacy and match votes with the voters who cast them. We concludethat this voting system is unsuitable for use in a general election. Any paperless electronic voting system might suffer similar flaws, despite any "certification" it could have otherwise received. We suggest that the best solutions are voting systems having a "voter-verifiable audit trail," where a computerized voting system might print a paper ballot that can be read and verified by the voter.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Thanks
If I cut the Palast stuff, I'll have room for this. Hell, I'll make room for it regardless. Thanks.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. Great article..I have one suggestion however...
Why not ask the simplest question of all? Why is it that in every case of "glitches" "malfunctions" and "anomalies" the errors ALL FAVOURED Bush? None favoured John Kerry. Not a single one.

In every instance of electronic vote problems it was George W Bush that was on the right end of the error.

I can accept that computer programmes will malfunction from time to time (especially those not thoroughly tested) but it defies the odds for every single error in non-related, non-connected systems to ALL go the same way....Unless.....
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Are you absolutely sure that's true?
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I have seen no reports to this point that say otherwise.
All of the errors reported favoured Bush and not Kerry.
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Lilli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. The Craven Co information doesnt specifically say it favored Bush
it just states the 11k + were extra in the presidential race
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. We've looked hard at the data. The tide is always for B*sh, NEVER Kerry
That's impossible, but...there it is. I think they got greedy. Or sloppy. Maybe both. They definitely over-reached. They wanted to win by a lot and they made the numbers stand out as being far too unlikely. They probably fiddled with them without having a breakdown of what they would look like when completed. Good. ;)
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. Its true
tia
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
47. Use a qualifier or leave it as is. Less partisan may be more powerful
"In the data I've examined so far, I have not found one incident in which the irregularities helped John Kerry."

Or just leave it as is. It's powerful enough and may be more persusasive if it's less partisan.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #47
68. The GOP Will Dredge Up A Case Of A Glitch Where 100 Stray Votes
went for Kerry while MILLIONS went to Bush.

And those One Hundred will be used in an attempt to neutralize or invalidate the theft of MILLIONS.

This is going to be a public relations war.

I'd say something like:

"In every documented case so far, paperless e-voting caused many thousands of votes that add up to potentially millions crossed inexplicabley from Kerry to Bush. If any glitches benefitted Kerry they haven't been found yet and would be dwarfed by those mistaken tallies going AGAINST Kerry."
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
25. BASED ON EXIT POLLS, THE PROBABILITY KERRY WOULD LOSE OH AND FL = 0.15%
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 03:17 AM by TruthIsAll
Will, dramatize the fraud with a simple probability calculation:

The probability Bush would WIN FL and OH was less than 1/6 of ONE Cheney percent! If you believe the exit polls, that is. And everyone should. To put it another way, the chances are 1 out of 667 that Bush would win BOTH states.

Assuming a 2% MoE for the exit polls (they are much more accurate than standard polls), the probabilities are:

Ohio Exit Poll:
Kerry 52 - Bush 48
Prob (Kerry wins OH)= 97.7%

Florida Exit Poll:
Kerry 51 - Bush 48
Prob (Kerry wins FL)= 93.5%

Then
Prob (Kerry loses FL and OH) =0.15% = (1-.977)*(1-.935)

Prob(Kerry wins OH or FL or Both)= 99.85% = 1 -.15%

How did I calculate the probs?
Simple. Feed the data into the Excel Normal Distribution function:

Since the MoE = .02, the Standard Deviation is .02/1.96 = .01

Prob (Kerry wins OH)= NORMDIST(0.52,0.5,0.01,TRUE) = 97.7%

Prob (Kerry wins FL)= NORMDIST(51/99,0.5,0.01,TRUE) = 93.5%





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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
27. Great letter, Will,you should know me by now, no sour grapes, just facts.
Every damn probability/statistical thread I have posted on DU has been right on target.

I'm a mathematician, for chrissake. And a software developer.

I calculated the probability of fraud in the 2002 elections. At least 40,000 to one. Cleland lost, along with three other Dem senators who were way ahead in the polls.

PAST IS PROLOGUE. YOU BET YOUR LIFE.

I was the FIRST on DU to question the Voting Machines, even before Bev Harris, bless her soul.

Anything I post, take it right to the bank. There is not, nor has there ever been one ounce of bullshit in anything I have done in this life. I may have been wrong at times, but my goal has always been due to my firm belief that TRUTH IS ALL.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
31. Ah ha!
He's on it!
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
35. The spoilage info is great; fraud stuff needs work
In particular, that link and paragraph regarding "Surprising Florida Results" is lame and should be edited or eliminated. The compiler assumes a loyalty to party registration that is anything but static or consistent in such a diverse state as Florida. The examples you cite are too easily dismissed by looking at previous results in those counties. Florid is still very much the deep South in many sprawling area in the north, particularly the panhandle. Dixiecrats prevail.

Duval County (Jackonville, bordering Georgia) voted 58.5% for Bush in 2000, 58.1% for Bush this year. It was punch card in 2000 and had thousands of spoiled ballots. But even if you attribute 20,000 spoiled ballots with 18,000 of them to Gore, that still put the county at 55.1% for Bush in 2000, very similar to the 2004 tally if not completely predictable given Bush's 3.5 point national improvement from 2000 to 2004. Liberty County is very tiny but voted 56.5% for Bush in 2000. Baker County is slightly larger, giving 70% to Bush in 2000.

Here is an article suggesting a far less sinister explanation for Florida 2004. If yourself or someone else presents an alternate portrayal, it could be of help:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/politics/campaign/07florida.html
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Baja Margie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. Wow. Thank You. Wow.
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. Thank you for doing this Will. Great article.
I don't have any info to add myself, but I am kicking this thread. Want to make sure that anyone who does have info to add will see it!

:kick:
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flpeach Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
39. Thank You Mr. Pitt
As always you are simply the best.

Let us know how we can help.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
40. analysis info
received this in an e-mail -- don't know if it will help

====================

The cartogram version of this map showing each county in proportion to its total population is even more dramatic. The right wing has been screaming 'mandate' and 'America has spoken' all week. This makes it very clear that 50% of the country rejects the proposed roll-back to pre- FDR America!
Election 2004 Results
Robert J. Vanderbei

Click here for Election 2000 map. http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2000/

Using County-by-County election return data from USA Today ( http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/president.htm) together with County boundary data from the US Census' Tiger database (http://www.census.gov/tiger/boundary/51cobna.zip) we produced the following graphic depicting the results. Of course, blue is for the democrats, red is for the republicans, and green is for all other. Each county's color is a mix of these three color components in proportion to the results for that county.

Counties shown in black represent either missing election data or a mismatch between the US Census data and the USA Today data. For example, the New England states' election return data is given for each municipality and/or district rather than for each county. Hence, it couldn't be easily matched with the county boundaries.

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flpeach Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
41. Mr. Pitt . . . .
Also look at Daily Kos diaries . . here's one of them:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/6/173431/313

Lots of information can be found there!!
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flpeach Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
42. And here . .
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/6/135925/647

Proper Framing of the Voter Fraud Issue
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flpeach Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Holy Christ! Look at this!
'Rat a l'Orange' -- Documents indicate voting machine certification fraud

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2626567
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
44. Good job Will
get this out
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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
46. Check into electronic voting in India
I've been told that it is virtually flawless. If this is the case, who designing the system and why aren't we using it?

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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Australia uses open source evoting nt
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
48. Will, I hope this helps
I appreciate what you're doing and I will try to do my part for democracy! Hopefully I'm not duplicating your research or anyone else's.....

http://serform.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/index.html

Sec. of State Ohio
County Chart Information

http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/news/news.01.txt

WAPAKONETA -- Auglaize County {{{{{POSSIABLE MACHINE TAMPERING}}}}}}

<snip>

In a letter dated Oct. 21, Ken Nuss, former deputy director of the Auglaize County Board of Elections, claimed that Joe McGinnis, a former employee of Election Systems and Software (ES&S), the company that provides the voting system in Auglaize County, was on the main computer that is used to create the ballot and compile election results, which would go against election protocol. Nuss claimed in the letter that McGinnis was allowed to use the computer the weekend of Oct. 16.

Nuss, who resigned from his job Oct. 21 after being suspended for a day, was responsible for overseeing the computerized programming of election software, according to his job description. His resignation is effective Nov. 11

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/nation/2886704 {{Houston Chronicle}}

<snip>

Latinos' support for Bush debated

Exit-poll math doesn't add up, one institute says

That national exit poll showed more than 10 million Hispanics voted, he said, but Hispanic voters groups estimated the number at more than 7 million.

He said pre-election polling by various Latino organizations repeatedly showed Democrat John Kerry with a 2-1 edge over Bush, as did election-night exit polls by his organization.

Latino presidential preference
• 1988: Michael Dukakis got 65 percent of the Latino vote;
George H.W. Bush got 34 percent.
• 1992: Clinton, 65 percent; Bush, 23 percent; Perot, 12 percent.
• 1996: Clinton, 70 percent; Dole, 22 percent; Perot, 7 percent.
• 2000: Gore, 62 percent; Bush, 35 percent; other, 3 percent.
• 2004: Kerry, 51 percent; Bush, 31 percent.



http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000715.html

Palm Beach County Logs 88,000 More Votes Than Voters

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041106/NEWS02/111060040/-1/news {{{New Hampshire}}}

<snip>

These irregularities favor President George W. Bush by 5 percent to 15 percent over what was expected. Problems in these electronic voting machines and optical scanners are being reported in machines in a variety of states.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-ELN-Voter-Turnout.html?pagewanted=print&position=

<snip>

Voter Turnout Highest in Three Decades

Figures tabulated Wednesday by The Associated Press showed that 114.3 million people had voted with 99 percent of precincts reporting. However, about 120 million people cast ballots, including 5.5 million to 6 million absentee and provisional ballots yet to be counted, said Curtis Gans, director of the nonpartisan Committee for the Study of the American Electorate.

The 120 million figure represents just under 60 percent of eligible voters -- the highest percentage turnout since 1968, Gans said.


http://ustogether.org/election04/PA_vote_patt.htm
http://ustogether.org/election04/FloridaDataStats.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65609,00.html

E-Vote Glitch Inflates Bush Total 

There are other articles about e voting






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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
50. Will, I believe that Ohio is a diversion, a smokescreen
The same way a magician uses misdirection so that you are not watching the hand that is actually doing the illusion.....

Florida is where the big, systematic manipulation took place. They already have a number of mechanisms for this in place from 2000 (felon purge, minority vote spoilage, etc.) and have never addressed them. More tricks were piled on for this go-round.

After all the DOCUMENTED election abuses in 2000, did anyone go to jail? Or even lose their job? Nope... in fact Katherine Harris got a promotion.

I don't know if it was planned that way or not, but with the large number of electoral votes in the balance and the cliff-hanger ending, all eyes were initailly on Ohio, not Florida.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
52. Looks good.. could you please address the "mandate issue" a bit
I have no proof, but I contend that the "numbers" were artificially bumped up in uncontested areas, (red states), so that there would be NO issue over "legitimacy" this time around..

It hardly seems plausible that people stood in the rain for HOURS on end to say "um..I guess he's doing an ok job"..

The "exit-polls-were-wrong" ploy has been "used" on us for the THIRD time now, and that's because it HAS to be wrong for him to win the popular vote..

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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
53. Go to this website:
www.invisibleida.com/New_Hampshire.htm

READ IT.

Then go read the "New Hampshire/Ralph Nader" threads over in the Presidential forum. PM me. We need to talk.
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. Ida what do the yellow lined rows mean?

I was in NH on election, working for the campaign. I was in one of the yellow lined locations. I saw hundreds of same day registrations.

In addition, family members who moved from one NH to another went in to register on election day. One spouse had no trouble. The other spouse, who went later in the day, was told they could not register in the new town -- that they had to go to the old town (completely not true). This spouse said that there was a lawyer in his family who was in the state, and if needed, he would call the lawyer. The voting site person handed him the registration form. Someone said to this spouse that the voting site person turned away 4 other people for the same reason (recently moved into town). One of the locations in that town is also highlighted in yellow on your chart.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #58
73. The yellow lines are the 71 precincts that are "out of trend."
PM me if you want to discuss. :) Best, Ida
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flpeach Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
54. ESS Man Caught in Ohio Election Computers
by Calee4nia


Sat Nov 6th, 2004 at 22:32:33 PST

I don't know what to make of this, but am posting this in case folks want the info:

In a letter dated Oct. 21, Ken Nuss, former deputy director of the Auglaize County Board of Elections, claimed that Joe McGinnis, a former employee of Election Systems and Software (ES&S), the company that provides the voting system in Auglaize County, was on the main computer that is used to create the ballot and compile election results, which would go against election protocol. Nuss claimed in the letter that McGinnis was allowed to use the computer the weekend of Oct. 16.

Interesting? Some good posts there too.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/7/13233/6353
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
55. well done
we need to lay out the circumstantial case at this point, stay non-partisan, and I think you've done that.

One question about the FLA counties where voter registration doesn't match the voting pattern - has anyone looked into how those counties voted in the past - to see if this elections results are, indeed, anomalies? I remember reading somewhere that a lot of southern Democrats vote Republican - they just haven't changed their registration.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
56. great work
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 08:56 AM by G_j
I just want to say thanks. As always, your determination and commitment are deeply appreciated. Thanks Will!
:toast:
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
57. fantastically thorough work as always !
Just a thought though. . .

I don't feel you should dump the Palast/spoilage issue entirely because it's significant. Maybe just consider tightening it up a bit.

Appreciate the chronological flow you've presented from '00-'04. Yet I wonder if you might lose some readers in the short attention span theater by introducing the lengthy spoilage issue early on in the article before you cut to the more clear cut facts from Tuesday's news wires of widespread incidents of gross irregularities in various locales.

Perhaps reading those first might grab more sustained focus to get the details of spoilage further on in the article.

Yeah on third read. . .I really feel the news wires blurbs might just be far better after the 2nd paragraph and it wouldn't screw up the context or flow of the all the involved intricacies that follow.

Good luck with this. There is no more diabolical threat to the sustenance of our democracy's future. IMHO

But what the heck do I know?

"The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which all other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery." Thomas Paine


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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
59. Do NOT SAY Paper RECEIPT. It Needs To Be A PAPER BALLOT.
PLEASE, scrap the word RECEIPT.

Do NOT let that word in your final piece.

A receipt is a meaningless piece of paper that has no legal standing.

So what if Americans get a paper receipt?

Unless it is a LEGAL PAPER BALLOT, retained in the voting booth to be used later for possible vote recounts... a piece of paper is meaningless and WORTHLESS.

Thanks for writing this.

Hope your head feels better.
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #59
77. I agree strongly here.
Hadn't thought of this detail, but now you mention it, yes. Reciepts can be faked too. I have absolutely NO trust in the Puke machine whatsoever.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
60. Why No Mention Of Deviation Between Exit Polls Only Where Paperless
e-voting machines were used?

That is more damning than 65% Democrats voting for Bush because that CAN be explained by them crossing over.

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. That's not exactly true about the polls.
For instance, most of OH has a paper trail. You can cheat with a paper trail because all the results are still added up via a central PC (tabulator) as I understand it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #61
63. SoCalDem Did A Whole Thread On The Correlations Here. They Exist
Counties using paper trails with e-voting had their exit polls matching up with the final vote.

Counties NOT using paper trails with e-voting had huge variations between exit polls and the final vote.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
62. Please Consider Making Mention Of Exit Polls Being "Wrong"
and how GOP suddenly started coming on tv saying they were wroing.

Exit polls are used in emerging Democracies to validate the legitimacy of vote tallies.

They are considered reliable enough in every country in the world.

Hell, even Dick Morris said it didn't make sense...

Exit polls differing from final vote tallies are a flashing red light that something is wrong.

Exit polls are a painful sympton of an underlying problem. And the ONLY way to deal with a gross variance between exit polls and a final vote tally is to do x-rays and exploratory surgery in the hope of findning out what the disease is.
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #62
79. I agree, this is very compelling
Many people saw the Exit Polls early in the evening showing a Kerry "win"; emphasizing how Exit Polls were always considered accurate BEFORE electronic voting is very powerful.



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flpeach Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
64. Outrage in Ohio
Angry residents storm State House in response to massive voter suppression and corruption

other good stuff too . . .


http://michiganimc.org/feature/display/7644/index.php
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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
69. Sequoia Voting admits possible evote error - says problem with poll
Sorry I don't have time to read your article now, but I wanted to post this in case you hadn't seen it yet...

posted by papau in GD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2622362#2622503



Sequoia Voting admits possible evote error - says problem with poll


workers who had not calibrated them properly.

This is a ABC 11/2 story - why is the media burying it?

http://www.whtm.com/news/stories/1104/184856.html

Electronic Voting Machine Woes Reported
UPDATED - Tuesday November 02, 2004 11:23pm


FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) - Voters nationwide reported some 1,100 problems with electronic voting machines on Tuesday, including trouble choosing their intended candidates.

The e-voting glitches reported to the Election Protection Coalition, an umbrella group of volunteer poll monitors that set up a telephone hotline, included malfunctions blamed on everything from power outages to incompetent poll workers.

But there were also several dozen voters in six states - particularly Democrats in Florida - who said the wrong candidates appeared on their touch-screen machine's checkout screen, the coalition said.

In many cases, voters said they intended to select John Kerry but when the computer asked them to verify the choice it showed them instead opting for President Bush, the group said.
Electronic Voting Machine Woes Reported (source: AP)


After 10 minutes trying to change her selection, the Pinellas County resident said she called a poll worker and got a wet-wipe napkin to clean the touch screen as well as a pencil so she could use its eraser-end instead of her finger. Harvey said it took about 10 attempts to select Kerry before and a summary screen confirmed her intended selection. Election officials in several Florida counties where voters complained about such problems did not return calls Tuesday night.

A spokesoman for the company that makes the touch-screen machines used in Pinellas, Palm Beach and two other Florida counties, Alfie Charles of Sequoia Voting Systems Inc., said the machines' monitors may need to be recalibrated periodically (claims they default to Bush if Kerry was not pressed hard enough!). <snip>

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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #69
84. Default to Bush ?????
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 12:20 PM by Robert Oak
Woah, if the program is initialized to Bush and republican candidates,
this can be proven by looking at the software program itself and proves bias.

This is significant! Any software engineer knows that you do not initialize variables to a specific outcome...


Any engineer reading this article knows one would ONLY initialize the software to come up as an undervote or a "no vote" before a vote was cast.

This is bias built into the program itself!

Not press hard enough on a touch screen? It's a binary input, it should give a "beep" as feedback, but when the screen determines input, it should change the variable in the software and then sequence to the next part of the program. If no input is given (i.e. not pressing hard enough) the program should stay on that screen waiting for input. This evidence implies that the program is not dependent upon input from the touch screen and will sequence past without changing the variables. Odds that the program is accepting a time out
variable to move to the next screen are high, which again is fraud
through programming design. One could claim incompetence (and as we know Microsoft hires a lot of incompetent software people), but these engineering errors are glaringly obvious from this report.

So, if input is given via the touchscreen and the program sequences to the next instruction line, yet in the final tally it comes up Bush,
this suggests that the initial variables are "locked" to Bush and that
the "unlocking" mechanism might only be the times one verifies the vote as wrong! It is also even more suspect that if the touch screen moves to the next portion of the ballot upon immediate touch, that indeed the program is getting input from the screen, yet locking the variables wrong anyway. This also indicates intentional bias written into the software.

Can we get one of these machines?

Here is another tidbit. Engineers can do reverse engineering without
actually getting the code from the vendor. Reverse engineering
means you figure out the design "backwards" and through object codes
(the stuff the source code turns into via a compiler).

All of the things I just listed could be proven by reverse engineering.

So, there are a number of computer scientists and engineers around who I'm sure would help out if someone could secure these machines, even if the company (Diebold) will not assist.
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wovenpaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
71. I wish I had something to contribute
However, I'd like to express my appreciation for you and this work you're doing-while recovering from injury!
BTW,I don't mean to slight any of the other people doing all this enormously impressive and important work. I've been reading steadily since that black Tuesday. I sit here in awe of all of you!!!
Keep up the good work and I'll put my money where my mouth is as my contribution...Thanks, thanks, THANK YOU, patriots all!
:yourock:
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flpeach Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
72. Will Pitt
I have this that someone put together, you may already know about it or it may have been posted already, so if it is sorry . . . but if you haven't, it is chock full of stuff.

http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm
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diabhal Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
75. Don't forget Michael Moore's Ohio video evidence
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
83. This is from VotersUnite.org. Voting irregularities
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 12:20 PM by devrc243
Problems are still being reported by the media across the country. Everything from machines that are tallying backward (ES&S) to over 4,000 votes being lost from machines (Unilect) to 25% of early votes being counted as undervotes (ES&S) to memory card failures on optical scan machines (Diebold). In most cases the problems are being blamed on “human failure”; of course. Meantime, the vendors are sending out press releases patting themselves on the backs for doing a great job.
--------------------------------
Note: An Optical-scan used in Broward County reached a capacity and began counting backwards after 32,000 ballots. The machine was, according to the article, an ES&S machine. Coincidentally, there was a report of an ES&S Optical-scan machine losing 6 to 20,000 votes because it hit capacity. That machine was a Model 1, Unity 2.2, with 5.28 Firmware. Is it the same machine as the one in Broward? I don't know yet. Are there more of them that may have lost votes? Yes, there is a good chance.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-lamone1103,1,4758760.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

Maryland – Details of the State Election Board’s agreement with Linda Lamone that will keep her in a job for awhile longer.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/elections/bal-ballots1103,1,2950352.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

Baltimore Co., MD - Balto. Co. officials overcome trouble with machine tally

http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/news/article/0,2071,NPDN_14940_3303306,00.html

Collier Co., FL – Software glitch holds-up count reporting. The glitch was on a separate computer system from the DREs

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-fover04nov04,0,214285.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

Florida – Gov. Bush says he would like to upgrade the DREs so they have recount ability when the technology is available. He can’t mean a vvpb can he?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/local_news/epaper/2004/11/04/s1b_anderson_1104.html

Palm Beach Co., FL – New elections director wants to trade DREs for optical scan system

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/trn/local_news/article/0,1891,TRN_5784_3303816,00.html

Wichita Co., TX – Nearly 6,900 of 26,000 total early votes had ‘undervote’ for President. Human error to blame. County has software problems that need ES&S to fix before they can run ballots

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.ballots04nov04,1,2177764.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

Baltimore Co., MD – Count transmission problems attributed to human error

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/10094349.htm

Lancaster Co., SC – Unilect Patriot voting machines were used and failed. Printouts of votes had to be taken from the machines memories and hand-counted.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/10094335.htm

North Carolina – Some areas need new machines.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/10094337.htm
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/10099907.htm

Carteret Co., NC – 4,500 votes lost from voting machines – Unilect Patriot. Plus problems in Mecklenburg, Craven and Onslow Counties.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/elections/orl-asecvolusiaglitches04110404nov04,1,3289659.story?coll=orl-news-headlines

Volusia Co., FL – Diebold optical-scan machines had another failure with 6 machines having memory card failures. “Ion Sancho, the elections supervisor in Leon County, said officials with Diebold told him that the new, higher-capacity memory cards tend to have more glitches than older cards.”

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/10097146.htm

Wichita Co., TX – Software problem was causing as much as 20% undervote

http://www.news4jax.com/politics/3890292/detail.html

Broward Co., FL – ES&S software on their machines only reads 32,000 votes at a precinct then it starts counting backwards

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/politics/10094165.htm

Mecklenburg Co., NC – More votes registered than voters

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20041104005159&newsLang=en

Press Release from AccuPoll stating that problems reported by other vendors DREs would not be encountered on their DREs

http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/story/0,10801,97245,00.html
Reporter's notebook: The e-voting debate brought home (Excellent)

http://www.aclu.org/VotingRights/VotingRights.cfm?ID=16957&c=32

Federal Court Orders Florida Officials to Preserve Absentee Ballots Received After Election Day

http://www.wral.com/news/3891488/detail.html

Yadkin Co., NC – 1,000 votes counted twice. (ES&S Optical Scan)
Guilford Co., NC – 6 to 20,000 votes were affected due to capacity problems. They say the problem was corrected so why do they not know how many votes were affected??(ES&S Optical Scan)



John Gideon
Information Manager
www.votersunite.org


ALSO, HERE'S more ON THE LOCAL LEVEL:

Voting machines err, misread Snyder votes
AUSTIN GELDER
ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

Complaints about glitches in Pulaski County's new computerized voting system rolled in Thursday as early voters reported trouble getting their X's into the right boxes.
More than two dozen people called U.S. Rep. Vic Snyder's office Thursday with stories of uncooperative voting machines that kept marking the wrong candidates.

Poll workers are standing by to help voters complete their ballots correctly, but officials for Snyder's campaign fear voters might accidentally be choosing the wrong candidates.
"I'm worried about the possibly hundreds of people who may not have realized they didn't cast the vote that they wanted to," Snyder campaign manager Steve Harrelson said. Snyder, a Democrat seeking a third term, faces Republican Bob Thomas of Little Rock.
Katibell Perdue was among the 28 people who called Harrelson on Thursday to report trouble at the polls.
Perdue uses a computer every day, so she said she wasn't intimidated when she went to cast her ballot using the new system Thursday afternoon. She changed her mind, though, after it took her five tries and the help of a poll worker to mark her ballot.
"When I touched the screen to vote for Vic Snyder, it lit up the opponent's name," Perdue said.
Harrelson wonders what will happen with people who don't want to spend extra time figuring the new system out.
"What if someone gets frustrated and just doesn't vote? What if somebody gets intimidated and drops it and leaves?" he asked.
Pulaski County Elections Coordinator Sandy Dyer doesn't think computer problems are causing people to mistakenly vote for candidates they didn't choose, but she still plans to check all machines that have prompted complaints.
"We feel like we're addressing it," she said.
Electronic voting came to Pulaski County for the first time this year, and 52 machines were set up for the two-week early voting period.
Machines that cause problems for voters are taken off-line and fixed immediately, Dyer said.
Batteries in the machines must be replaced every two days, and the machines must be calibrated every day or two, she said.
Calibrating helps the computers match the spot a voter taps with the corresponding information on the touch screen. Voting machines that need to be calibrated might not register the intended vote.
Virginia Buck isn't sure what went wrong with the machine she used Thursday at the Walker Tennis Center in Little Rock. She said she marked her vote for Snyder and went on to fill out the rest of her ballot. When she went back to double check her votes, she found a mark beside Thomas' name.
"To me, it's horrifying to think what would have happened if I'd not taken the time to go back. I'm sure a lot of people didn't do that," she said.
Dyer and the Election Commission brought in 28 more Votronics machines last week to handle a crush of early voters. The extra machines added to the original stock of 25 voting machines in hopes of trimming the lines at early voting sites.
"The lines were long, and people were concerned about the length of time it was taking them to vote," Dyer said.
Three of the new Votronics machines were initially set aside to be used only in demonstrations, but Dyer sent them out to polling sites soon after early voting began to help absorb the higher-than-expected turnout.
The machines will only be used for early voting.
More than 15,000 people have already visited early voting sites in the past two weeks, and Dyer said she expects the numbers to far exceed 1998's tally of 15,853 early voters by the time early voting ends.
Voters cast the first ballots on the 25 newest machines Thursday, Oct. 26, after supplier Elections System & Software of Omaha, Neb., trucked them in.
Twenty of the new machines are on loan from the supplier, Pulaski Election Commission Chairman Ron Oliver said. The other five new machines, along with the three demonstration machines, will likely stay in Pulaski County.
The Election Commission plans to keep those eight machines in lieu of the two more expensive voting machines, called ADA Kiosks, that didn't work as well as they'd hoped, Oliver said.
The two kiosks are designed to help disabled and blind people vote without assistance, but they didn't meet expectations during test runs and were never used in Pulaski County for this election, Oliver said.
The Election Commission paid $107,375 for 25 Votronics machines and two ADA Kiosks earlier this year. If Elections System & Software accepts the proposed deal, Pulaski County will end up instead with 33 Votronics machines.
Early voting continues through 3 p.m. Saturday at Walker Tennis Center, Southwest Recreation Center, Harvest Foods on Cantrell Road, Laman Library in North Little Rock, Jacksonville City Hall, Harvest Foods in Maumelle and Jack Evans Senior Citizens Center in Sherwood. Early voting will continue through Monday at the Pulaski County Courthouse.

Lisa Burks
Lisa Burks
National Coordinator
National Coalition for Verified Voting (NCVV)

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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Also, something else --not sure if it helps or not but this is a FACT
Arkansas Secretary of State pleads guilty to taking bribes in computer voting equipment case

Top

© 2002 The Baton Rouge Advocate

Reproduced under the Fair Use exception of 17 USC § 107 for noncommercial, nonprofit, and educational use.

February 5, 2002 — Arkansas Secretary of State Bill McCuen pleaded guilty to felony charges that he took bribes, evaded taxes and accepted kickbacks. Part of the case involved Business Records Corp. , a Dallas company that sold Arkansas computerized systems for recording corporate and voter registration records.

Arkansas officials said the scheme involved...then-BRC employee Tom Eschberger...Eschberger got immunity from prosecution for his cooperation. Today, he's a top executive of ES&S.

more...

http://www.ejfi.org/Voting/Voting-64.htm

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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #85
104. HOLY SHIT!!! THAT IS HUGE!!!!
I thought I had heard everything about this mess, and here you come and post this! Thanks for catching it!

People have already been caught doing it!!

THAT IS

HUGE!!!!



:kick::kick::kick:
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #85
123. Bill McCuen is a Democrat.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
86. Will...Very Nice Job...But Consider...
As a dedicated Democrat and one who believes that there is little doubt that some kind of fraud happened here, I must play devil's advocate to feel completely sure. So here a re a couple of questions...

If the "glitches" and other irregularities always fell in favor of Bush...we have a problem. In any election, there are going to be errors. Logic demands that whatever errors occur, that they fall to both sides. If, in fact, no errors were made that favored Kerry, it would make our case very weak. Even if Kerry had a small percentage of errors go his way, it may still be a problem. Anything less than the error rate of other elections would not be looked upon as legitimate. The ideal scenario would be that and average number of errors (based on past elections) would favor Kerry and an enormous number of errors favoring Bush.

My second issue has been discussed here before. However, I haven't heard a good argument against it. It deals with the number of people that would have to be behind this theft to make it work. Some say that it wouldn't take that many people to pull this off while others believe that it would take hundreds if not thousands to make the theft complete. My question must be obvious...

How could so many people have kept this quiet? For me...it was either pulled off by a very small number of people (very small) or it could have never been kept quiet.

Please don't flame me...I think it is our job to question ourselves to insure that we can answer any critic.

-P
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
90. Bless you Will.. bookmarked this thread


If everyone on thius board would focus on this one issue for one hour we would be able to make a dent in the Media tomorrow.

Let's roll !!
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
91. Thank GOD you're weighing in on this.
Probably someone already gave this URL. There have been several threads attempting to compile fraud data (one of them mine). Chili was gracious enough to build a website that includes everything we could find. Probably, we missed some things, but I hope it helps. (I didn't read all the threads in this post, so I apologize if you already received this URL.)

http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm

Will, if voter fraud was the case, we need to do something BIG. Look, I'm not trying to whine, but I'm too sick to organize. We need leaders like you to tell us what to do. If election theft occurred and we continue to sit on our asses and type shit onto a computer screen, I see no point in going on.

We need lawsuits. We need pundits out there yelling their heads off. We need a HUGE peaceful demonstration. We need these things, Will. If 2004 drops gently into the same dark hole as 2000 and 2002, we might as well quit now.

Yours,

A Very Angry Ladyhawk
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
92. will, an Ohioan over at TableTalk has info on some funky precinct results
in Cuyahoga County:

http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?14@95.CrI0amNZn1t.6@.773a529d/299

(see post #300)
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Ramsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
93. More Latino votes than voters
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
96. Where is the media FIRESTORM?
You have done great work compiling this evidence in one article. If we had a responsible media there would be enough footage for hundreds of news pieces. Is there any hope of the majors paying attention?

We can't state the obvious. Our objective is not overturning the election results, it is questioning the integrity of the machines and the process. Further investigation would then pass serious doubt on the president's legitimacy.

Even if the election can't be overturned, we HAVE TO get paper ballots mandated in every precinct in this country. There must be a firestorm of controversy around paper-less balloting. This is something all people can unite around and support -- if the seriousness of the issue became known to them.

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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
97. a picture's worth a thousand votes




12 Florida counties have more votes for president than people who voted. (links to source data http://ideamouth.com/voterfraud.htm#FL)

Collier County: Voter Turnout was 127,409. 128,352 votes were cast for president.

Duval County: Voter Turnout was 379,257. 379,614 votes were cast for president.

Glades County: Voter Turnout was 3,446. 4,188 votes were cast for president.

Highlands County: Voter Turnout was 33,996. 41,491 votes were cast for president.

Lake County: Voter Turnout was 123,751. 123,938 votes were cast for president.

Miami Dade County: Voter Turnout was 716,574. 768,553 votes were cast for president.

Okaloosa County: Voter Turnout was 89,485. 89,707 votes were cast for president.

Orange County: Voter Turnout was 386,104. 387,752 votes were cast for president.

Osceola County: Voter Turnout was 63,589. 82,178 votes were cast for president.

Leon County: Voter Turnout was 136229. 136,314 votes were cast for president.

Palm Beach County: Voter Turnout was 452,061. 542,835 votes were cast for president.

Volusia County: Voter Turnout was 209,052. 228,358 votes were cast for president.

And a voter suppression chart from ohio:
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
98. Typo "there/their"
"...there preference for George W. Bush. We have voter trends that stray from the expected results. We have these machines counting millions of votes all across the country..."


Really impressed at how you could put it together in such plain simple language. Even the thickest among us can see what has been perpetrated.



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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
99. Hope I'm not too late, it's WALDEN O'DELL, NOT WILLIAM
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 03:14 PM by steviet_2003
I also think you should include something about Chuck Hagel and his ESS ties.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

edited to fix Waldon to Walden
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Thanks, fixed
I thought about the ES&S stuff, but the essaay is over 4200 words already, and an explanation of the Hagel connections would require a couple of paragraphs at least. The Diebold connections are straightforward, and make the overall point.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. No, Thank YOU!
As always, a great piece. Thanks for all you do for the cause Will!

Yes, 4,200 words is a long essay, but the subject matter deserves volumes, and I am sure someday it will get them!

If this ever makes the mainstream, the light will shine on Hagel too.
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mountebank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
102. Data on exit polls being skewed in paperless vote states is not solid.
I wouldn’t print that, Will. Talk about exit polling and how it has always been solid until year 2000 and how exit polling didn’t get it WRONG in Florida in 2000 it was the subtraction and then addition of 16,000 votes to Gore’s total by error or fraud that did it. Talk about the statistics of exit polling and how they are more accurate than pre-polling because they ask about an event that already occurred.

But this data on the difference between exit polling in so-called paper ballot and paperless states is VERY tenuous at best. With all due respect to TruthIsAll, he is including states in his paperless category (at least NH, WI, MN) that have no business being there. That doesn’t mean no fraud occurred with electronic voting. It just means the conclusions of that one analysis you mention are suspect.

See my post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=27951&mesg_id=28584
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
105. Fisher and Dixie county anomaly
Common Dreams posted this Will:

"In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush. "

If in fact there were ONLY 4,988 registered voters, and 1,959 voted for Kerry and 4,433 voted for Bush, that is a total of 6,392.

That would mean 6,392 actual count - 4,988 registered voters OR 1,404 NON REGISTERED Voters who voted.

In addition, why couldn't a door to door canvassing of Registered Dem voters be conducted by the DNC to ask HOW they actually voted in a small county like Dixie?
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SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
107. Here is some more info on FL fraud
Here is an excerpt. There is no rational explanation for what is cited below, except vote tampering. The Democratic candidate for the 16th district has brought charges to the FBI.



FBI has been contacted with claims of proof of the voter fraud. It appears many rural counties in FL were effected by extremely unusual voting trends, like 3/4 of registered Democrats voting for Bush.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm


"In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry. "

"In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush. "

The pattern repeats over and over again - but only in the counties where optical scanners were used. Franklin County, 77.3% registered Democrats, went 58.5% for Bush. Holmes County, 72.7% registered Democrats, went 77.25% for Bush.

--------------


Look at this excel file:
http://www.geocities.com/flfraud04/flVoting.xls

I got the number directly off the FL elections website:
http://enight.dos.state.fl.us /

First, look at the numbers in red font / yellow background. For example, Palm Beach county. 542,835 votes for president were casted, but only 452,061 voters turned out, a difference of 90,774. Does this mean that there are 90 thousand EXTRA votes?

Secondly, look at the numbers in green font. For example, Escambia county. 142,990 votes for president were casted, but 161,183 voters turned out. So, 18,193 people did not vote for president? Thats a high number. Thats 11%.

The national average was 1% for not voting for President. NO way in hell that 11% of Palm Beach (big time Democratic precinct) failed to even vote for President.

Also the other data showed that more people voted than showed up to vote.
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Nancy Waterman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. Will - this is info on how they cheat with the punch card ballots
They manipulate the thickness of the paper in the Democratic counties. This was supposed to come out in a Vanity Fair aritcle in September and got squashed at the last minute. A friend of mine was involved in the study of this. They took pictures with electron microscopes of the paper. Here are his words:


WHAT HAPPENED IN FLORIDA 2000

I was involved in uncovering some serious irregularities that occurred in
Florida's 2000 election. At the time, we had neither the mandate nor the
resources to conduct a further investigation.

Based on the irregularities we found, we concluded that an election equipment
manufacturing company called Election Systems and Software deliberately
supplied different types of paper ballots to predominately Democratic Counties than
were supplied to predominately Republican Counties. The differences, which
are nearly impossible to ascertain without sophisticated tests, resulted in the
statistically high number of undervotes or hanging chads in Democratic areas.

Apparently the same type of punch card technology was used in both Democratic
and Republican counties yet there were never any statistical abnormalities in
the Republican counties. We believe this was not by accident but by design
and this action was sufficient to alter the election results. Without
noticeable difference, punch cards can differ by the direction of the grain in the
paper and by the amount of pressure used by the production machine that scores
the cards for the rectangular punch holes.

This does not appear to have been an isolated situation in Florida, but a
pattern of illegality that has been occurring for several years in key races
nationwide and possibly in several foreign countries.

For two years we have been waiting for a major network news operation to
break the story. Even though they had given us their word, they postponed the
airdate three times. As we have seen what could be a repeat of this pattern in
the 2004 election, we believe it is imperative to alert the public, since we are
doubtful that the network program will ever be shown.

Our concern is that these same individuals have attempted a similar action in
2004 with paper ballots in those counties that are still using them, as well
as with versions of optical scan and electronic touchscreens. Adding to this
concern is a unique bond between ESS and the other major manufacturer of
election equipment, Diebold. Two brothers who began ESS now run both Diebold's
Election Division and ESS and together account for the lion's share of the
market in the United States.

The way it would work was this: County Election Supervisors are often
overworked and quite overwhelmed at times. The ESS sales representative would stop
by and offer to print the county ballots for a very competitive fee. Many
times the Supervisor would go ahead as it would be much easier than preparing all
the specs for an outside printer since ESS knows the exact specifications for
their machines. Once ESS got the order, each ballot lot was assigned
numerical codes. Certain lots were manufactured one way and others a different way.
Electron microscopic tests seem to indicate that one of the indentations was
not as deep as the others in the Gore chad. This would allow it to "hang" or
even curl back up thus resulting in an undervote.

As to the approaches used in the optical scan, touch screen machines and even
the software used in the machines that count the punch cards, I would have to
defer to others and their expertise.
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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. Wow, Nancy... this is important information...
I am in northern California. We use punch card ballots in my precinct, and I have wondered why/how there could be such a problem with them, as ours seem to work VERY well. The paper is stiff, smooth, and punches with a VERY sharp and clean punch. I have wondered exactly what is creating the problem with punch cards elsewhere, and this makes such perfect sense. Oh my... thanks for this. I wonder why this article was squashed at the last minute, too. ugh This is important information.
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
109. I miss your Kerry avatar.
also, very good article you've got there.
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pdx_prog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
111. As usual
damn fine job..
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
113. GREAT! I will post it here: EVOTING FRAUD RESOURCE CENTER
http://www.independentmediasource.com/evotingfraud.htm


Sections:

Article Sections:

11-2-04 and newer:

Featured

Evoting

On Site

Other voter fraud

Older



Other Sections:

Web sites

New Additions

Legislation

Things you can do



Hundreds of resources available through these pages

UPDATED CONSTANTLY. CHECK THE "New Additions" PAGE EACH TIME YOU COME BACK


SPREAD THE WORD. PROPAGATE THIS EVERYWHERE!

(Lots of bandwidth)
Du post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=28512&mesg_id=28512

Please send me suggested links, etc.

I'm not getting here 'nuff to keep up completely here.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
118. Hope it isn't too late for one more little nitpick
Don't know if anyone else caught this but paragraph 20 - "Worst of all is the fact that all the votes collected by these machines is sent via modem to a central tabulating computer which counts the votes on Windows software." Should be "are sent"

Otherwise wonderful. Thank you thank you thank you for taking this subject on. *big smooches*
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Good job, Will!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Support Cobb, Nader, and Badnarik as they pursue recounts!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
122. Great, Will. Do you know what evidence Jeff Fisher has?
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
125. Look at the past voting history in those Florida counties
They sure vote for Republicans a lot. What you get there are some Dixiecrats.
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